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Car Forum / Audi Cars / December 20082009 Audi A4 ?
Going through Audi's "Build your own" website, I notice that only quattros are available. Is this true - that at present only the 4WD version is available in the US? Also, is there a chance that the DSG transmission will make into the A4 in 2009? Thanks. >Going through Audi's "Build your own" website, I notice that only >quattros are available. Is this true - that at present only the 4WD >version is available in the US? Why would you want anything *but* Quattro? Dave RS6 Quattros are valuable only if your drive in difficult weather conditions such as encountered in cities like Montreal or Grenoble but in sunnier countries they just cost more fuel. Quattro technology was developped for that famous Audi rally racing car the Audi Quattro Coupe which was then needed to be sold in order to have the right to participate in the World Cup Rallyes where they dominated the scene for quite a while. Apart from that, a good FWD on a car such as a simple Audi 80 is just more then enough. I cannot even get my car of the road and I can handle roundabouts at very high speeds even in wet conditions. These cars achieved unparalled levels of road holding which cannot even be matched by a sporty Celica or the like (race that I did in the Alps recently where this guy with his Celica could not follow me in the curves). LHR > >Going through Audi's "Build your own" website, I notice that only > >quattros are available. Is this true - that at present only the 4WD [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Dave > RS6 A Quattro would have passed you. Come on, a Celica? It doesn't rain where you live? (race that I did in the Alps recently where this guy with his Celica could not follow me in the curves). >A Quattro would have passed you. > Come on, a Celica? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > recently where this guy with his Celica could not follow me in the > curves). Surely that would depend on which Celica. Some were front wheel drive, others rear wheel drive ( which do not grip well in the wet) and some were 4 wheel drive (GT-4). I suppose it also depends on the driver and the conditions. Best regards David >Quattros are valuable only if your drive in difficult weather >conditions such as encountered in cities like Montreal or Grenoble but [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >recently where this guy with his Celica could not follow me in the >curves). I've been driving for 55 years. I've been driving Quattros for 23 years. I've driven rear wheel, front wheel, all wheel, and four wheel drive cars. I taught high performance driving to cops for ten years before I had to quit because of health problems. Nothing, *nothing* compares to Quattro. If you've ever driven one in the rain (it does rain where you are?), you would know the difference. When I say my RS6 can go zero to sixty in about 4.5 seconds, that includes dry AND wet pavement, and it is just a few ticks off in the snow. Stomp on a front wheel drive or rear wheel drive when the pavement is wet and you get lots of wheel spin. The same if there is snow on the ground. While Quattro does tend to understeer, it is nothing compared to a front wheel drive care. My wife and I used to work the pro rally circuit in the States, namely the Maine Winter Rally. Our job was to run each stage from beginning to end and make sure nothing was wrong. We drove a 1990 Turbo-Quattro wagon. At times we drove several miles over logging roads with a foot of snow on the ground. Most of the cars entered were awd cars, with a few fwd and rwd. The awd cars *always* had faster times whether it was in snow or dry. Quattro rules! BTW, "sporty Celica" is an oxymoron. If you are going to buy an Audi, Quattro is the ONLY way to go, especially if it rains (or snows) where you live. Dave RS6 >Why would you want anything *but* Quattro? - Because you might want to pay less and still drive a VERY solid nice car - Because you're ready to accept that the FWD is not as good as the Quattro in less than perfect conditions but the car still handles WAY better than most other cars. - Because you wan't manual gear box and only two of the 7 quattro models feature that here while 4 of the 10 FWD models do. Fact is: Already the FWD Audi is a VERY good car and at least over here is around 5000 Euros less than the quattro. That's a lot of money. Regards Wolfgang >> Why would you want anything *but* Quattro? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > here is around 5000 Euros less than the quattro. That's a lot of > money. I agree. I have an A3 now and I'm happy with the front-wheel drive. It doesn't snow here, and rainfall is moderate. Anyways, my googling seems to indicate that the 2009 FWD A4's will hit the US market in December - January. I still would like to see the DSG on the A4 though. The DSG on my current 2006 A3 is the best transmission I have ever used. Bill >>Why would you want anything *but* Quattro? > >- Because you might want to pay less and still drive a VERY solid nice >car True, but for a few dollars more..... >- Because you're ready to accept that the FWD is not as good as the >Quattro in less than perfect conditions but the car still handles WAY >better than most other cars. It's not as good as the Q in just about any condition and it is still a fwd. >- Because you wan't manual gear box and only two of the 7 quattro >models feature that here while 4 of the 10 FWD models do. Buy the one with whichever gear box you desire. I drove the R8 at Pocono Raceway and the auto was far better than the stick. >Fact is: Already the FWD Audi is a VERY good car and at least over >here is around 5000 Euros less than the quattro. That's a lot of >money. Like I said, for a few dollars more....... In for a penny - in for a pound. Buy the Q and have everything you would ever need. Dave RS6 >>>Why would you want anything *but* Quattro? >> >>- Because you might want to pay less and still drive a VERY solid nice >>car > >True, but for a few dollars more..... Oh well, 6k$ is not a few for most people. >>- Because you're ready to accept that the FWD is not as good as the >>Quattro in less than perfect conditions but the car still handles WAY >>better than most other cars. > >It's not as good as the Q in just about any condition and it is still >a fwd. Yep. No problem with that. >>- Because you wan't manual gear box and only two of the 7 quattro >>models feature that here while 4 of the 10 FWD models do. > >Buy the one with whichever gear box you desire. I drove the R8 at >Pocono Raceway and the auto was far better than the stick. We're not talking bout raceways all the time, are we? I've been to racetracks regularly with my motorcycle and at least with that there's a HUGE difference between road and track. And: The Auto is ANOTHER 3-4k$ on top here. So we're talking 'bout a price difference of 9 to 10 k$. And that's around 20% here. >Like I said, for a few dollars more....... In for a penny - in for a >pound. Buy the Q and have everything you would ever need. Dave, I respect you're experience and opinion, but I will have to refuse the implication that people not buying a Q for their own reasons are cheapskates or making false decisions. For the record: I don't doubt that the Q is better than the FWD, but the F is by any means still an extremely good car. Regards W. >Dave, I respect you're experience and opinion, but I will have to >refuse the implication that people not buying a Q for their own >reasons are cheapskates or making false decisions. > >For the record: I don't doubt that the Q is better than the FWD, but >the F is by any means still an extremely good car. Wolfgang, I don't think people are cheapskates for buying the fwd Audis, but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the Quattro system. Audi didn't make their money on fwd cars. When they came out with the Quattro here in the states (82, 84?) their sales began to rise. There are scores of fwd cars out there, many of them good, but there is only one Quattro along with numerous other awd systems that are inferior. I would venture a guess that Quattro accounts for 98% of sales in the U.S. Audi dominated the rally scene in Europe and the States during in the 80s because of Quattro. Their entry into racing was also very successful. I believe they dominated much of the Euro racing in those days and each win caused them a weight penalty. The Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) would not allow Quattros in any of their race classes because of the distinct advantage over rwd and fwd. Audi and their Quattro have dominated any number of race scenes, but especially LeMans in recent years, and the Petite LeMans series here in the States. I have driven many fwd Audis at Audi sponsored driving events and they do not compare to Quattro. They are good cars, no doubt about that, but my choice for any car would be Quattro or rwd. If Audi was suddenly to stop production of Quattro, my next choice would be the Nisson GT-R or one of the MBs AMGs. It would not be an Audi fwd. And, I agree with you that the Audi fwd is an extremely good car. Be well, Dave RS6 >>Dave, I respect you're experience and opinion, but I will have to >>refuse the implication that people not buying a Q for their own [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Dave > RS6 There are at least two types of Quattro system. The longitudinal engine in an A4 A5 A6 A8 S4 S6 (et cetera) has Torsen full time 4wd, whereas the transverse engine in the A3 S3 TT (et cetera) has the Haldex electronic controlled clutch system which is not full time 4wd, but front wheel drive most of the time. Best regards David >Wolfgang, I don't think people are cheapskates for buying the fwd >Audis, but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >systems that are inferior. I would venture a guess that Quattro >accounts for 98% of sales in the U.S. I begin to understand the different preception now. I just checked Audis used car website in Austria and of all Audis currently offered there (~3600 units) ~ 1200 are Quattros. All others are obviously Fronts. Audis had a fairly good reputation in europe already long before they increased their sales in the US, so we have a different perception. In the premium class over here basically only Mercedes, BMW and Audi dominate. Lexus here has a very hard time to even be acknowledged as a high class car (Lexus owners: no offense) >[Racing and Competition] I agree, but one could also see that as an excellent marketing plot because, and let me play the devils advcate now, for the daily commute on the motorway in california (BTDT) you don't need a Q. I understand and agree that the reason for their big success in competition conditions is the quattro. However, I assume you've made the same experience, that is between racetrack and daily real world driving complete universes exists. >Be well, You too, Dave Regards Wolfgang >I just checked Audis used car website in Austria and of all Audis >currently offered there (~3600 units) ~ 1200 are Quattros. All others >are obviously Fronts. I can believe that. It is just the opposite here in the States. Most Audis are awd, except for some of the TTs. I only wish that we had some of the speed limits that you have, and the lane discipline most Euro drivers practice. My wife and I were in Switzerland about ten years ago and had rented a Saab Turbo in Zurich. Had a blast driving to Davos and then to Germany. If only Stateside drivers had that discipline. >Audis had a fairly good reputation in europe already long before they >increased their sales in the US, so we have a different perception. In >the premium class over here basically only Mercedes, BMW and Audi >dominate. Lexus here has a very hard time to even be acknowledged as a >high class car (Lexus owners: no offense) d;o) My wife has a Lexus SUV. Nice enough, but when I sponsored the family to a winter driving school last year (two daughters and their husbands (2000 4.2 A6), three grandchildren (two 2000 S4s and a Passat), no one wanted to drive her car. We took turns, of course, with each of the cars, but no one wanted to drive the Lexus. It was fun throwing the Audis around the different courses, but the Lexus was so forgiving with its anti-skid control, that it was hard to get it into trouble. You can turn it off on the RS6, and the others didn't have one. I had the Lexus in for service several months ago and took that opportunity to test drive the Lexus IS F sedan. Ballsey little all-wheel drive with 416 bhp, but it wasn't an Audi. A Lexus is NOT a MB, but it does well in the States. Be well, Dave RS6 > but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the > Quattro system I would have loved a Quattro but as has been said, the price difference was too much. It would have meant I'd have had to drop options (leather, HIDs) that I wanted. My main reasons for buying an Audi were superior quality over anything in the same price segment, better residual value when I come to sell and IMO better aesthetics. Only around 25% of Audis sold in Europe are Quattro because pretty much all Audis sold in Europe are built to order. I appreciate that that's hard to do outside Europe which is why Audi USA probably takes in a far higher percentage of Quattros as it's the USP for many people. You've also got to remember that Audi only came up with Quattro in the early 80s but were pretty successful in Europe long before that so the "need" for Quattro is not so strong here. Dave >Only around 25% of Audis sold in Europe are Quattro because pretty much all >Audis sold in Europe are built to order. I appreciate that that's hard to do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >80s but were pretty successful in Europe long before that so the "need" for >Quattro is not so strong here. Interesting. I would have thought that most Audis are Quattro because of their history here in the States. I remember the Audi Fox of many years ago and I don't believe it sold well in the U.S. Audi sales started to take off when they offered their first awd in '83 (82?). I was invited to participate in an Audi "Hands On" demonstration in Boston in '86 (or what it '88?). Anyway, they had their 200 and 400 models with ABS. You could turn the ABS off, and we did exercises with and without. First impressions count, and I just had to have an Audi with ABS. Sales of Audis increased after they came out with ABS, and then the "sudden-unintended-acceleration) fiasco happened, and sales suffered. Audi is now quite popular here in New England. Expensive, but well built, bullet proof Quattro, and good performance. I've owned my RS6 since new ('03), the longest I have ever owned a car, and have no intention of getting rid of it. It has Bilsteins coil-overs on all four corners, 19 " BBS LMs, lowered, chipped to 512 bhp, and goes like stink. It has given me flawless performance since day one. Dave RS6 Something else to consider here in Europe is the high price of fuel. Having a Quattro will dent your MPG. I test drove an A4 2.0TDI 170 Quattro which had very good performance but only gave 32MPG (UK)! You may as well buy a petrol car with that sort of consumption. Although I have heard of the recent 3.0TDI Quattros returning nearer 40. |
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