
Signature
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> A bulb with a resistance of 240 ohms would be approx 0.6 watt at 12 volts.
What's the math on that Dave?
I thought that volts X watts = resistance. If there is a bulb that measures
21w or 6 bulbs that measure 3w each or 18w in total, then we have approx.
20w X 12v = 240 ohms.
I understand what you are saying, but I used the wrong math. We are both
saying the same thing, but one of us is saying it wrong. I suspect it is me
...
You know, there is going to be considerable heat generated on said resistor,
it will need to be one of those ceramic type I'd guess.
> The centre brake light on my E39 is 21 watts, so the resistance when on
> will be approx 7 ohms - less when cold.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> warning device. I dunno how they work, but suspect there's a bit more to
> them than just a resistor.
I suspect you're right on that, but I see no reason one can't add a resistor
to the center light that lives in the back window. I suspect the tail light
assemblies that go into the rear corners of your car get more stuff to
support the LEDs than the center light demands, which explains why you have
a box in the spare tire well.
R. Mark Clayton - 15 Oct 2006 19:48 GMT
>>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> stuff to support the LEDs than the center light demands, which explains
> why you have a box in the spare tire well.
A hot bulb has a resistance given by Ohm's law. The resistance of a cold
bulb is actually very low.
Jeff Strickland - 15 Oct 2006 20:10 GMT
>>>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>>>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> A hot bulb has a resistance given by Ohm's law. The resistance of a cold
> bulb is actually very low.
I understand that, but Ohm's Law says that resistance can be calculated if
one knows the voltage and power. This calculatiion should be the same
without regard to heat. Since heat will destroy the load resistor that we
are talking about, then one must select a rexsistor that can handle the heat
that will be generated in the circuit, but the resistance of the circuit
will remain the same.
The issue we are trying to solve is, what is the resistance one might have
to add to a circuit that is now running LEDs as a load where a lightbulb (or
series of light bulbs) is the designed load for the circuit? We know that
the OP has either a 21w bulb or six 3w bulbs, that have been replaced by an
LED assembly. The circuit monitor is looking for a load that no longer
exists, and hense is detecting the no-load condition as an error. The
challenge is to add a load resistor that looks to the monitor like the
original bulbs looked.
Oscar@nowhere.com - 15 Oct 2006 20:39 GMT
>>>>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>>>>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>challenge is to add a load resistor that looks to the monitor like the
>original bulbs looked.
Jeff
Can I stop you there.
Nothing wrong with the circuit monitor. No fault is shown and everything is
tickety boo. It's ONLY the 6 x LED lamps flash momentarily every 5 seconds as
the OBC unit check the "bulbs".
I had thought of using a 741 Op-Amp to output a negative voltage to the LED
unit (0v) and biasing the input to see 9V on the negative input so when the
brakes are applied in reality the 12V feed will override the 0V and turn it high
triggering a darlington pair to feed the LED unit.
Seems reasonable but where do I pick up a live feed and would I need to run the
+ side from the brake light feed in all cases so the board is only powered when
the brake circuit is in operation.
there must be a simpler device. Another way might be a rather large capacitor -
say about 2000uF @ 24V ?
Jeff Strickland - 15 Oct 2006 22:16 GMT
>>>>>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>>>>>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
> capacitor -
> say about 2000uF @ 24V ?
Okay, let's back up a step or two.
Everything with the monitor is good, the trouble is that the LED Center
Brake Light flashes when the monitor makes its check?
I thought the problem was a false report of brake light failure.
Oscar@nowhere.com - 15 Oct 2006 20:32 GMT
>>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>21w or 6 bulbs that measure 3w each or 18w in total, then we have approx.
>20w X 12v = 240 ohms.
Volts = Amps x Resistance
Watts / Volts = Amps
Amps = volts / resistance
resistance = volts / amps
watts = volts x amps
Hugh
>I understand what you are saying, but I used the wrong math. We are both
>saying the same thing, but one of us is saying it wrong. I suspect it is me
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>support the LEDs than the center light demands, which explains why you have
>a box in the spare tire well.
Dave Plowman (News) - 16 Oct 2006 00:22 GMT
> >> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
> >> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> > A bulb with a resistance of 240 ohms would be approx 0.6 watt at 12
> > volts.
> What's the math on that Dave?
> I thought that volts X watts = resistance.
V²
No - it's R = -----
W
> If there is a bulb that
> measures 21w or 6 bulbs that measure 3w each or 18w in total, then we
> have approx. 20w X 12v = 240 ohms.
> I understand what you are saying, but I used the wrong math. We are both
> saying the same thing, but one of us is saying it wrong. I suspect it
> is me ...
> You know, there is going to be considerable heat generated on said
> resistor, it will need to be one of those ceramic type I'd guess.
> > The centre brake light on my E39 is 21 watts, so the resistance when
> > on will be approx 7 ohms - less when cold.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > the warning device. I dunno how they work, but suspect there's a bit
> > more to them than just a resistor.
> I suspect you're right on that, but I see no reason one can't add a
> resistor to the center light that lives in the back window.
The problem is space - there's only just enough room for the bulb, so it
would have to be external.

Signature
*White with a hint of M42*
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
hsg@h-gee.co.uk - 20 Oct 2006 16:34 GMT
Hi Dave and all
Problem fixed but first thanks for the help with ideas but we must remember that
incandescent light bulbs do not obey Ohm's Law as they get hot.
Cure involved a minor adaptation of a simple Darlington pair I use with my year
7 (11 years old) pupils as a moisture sensor.
Instead of the base resistor being used as part of the input I have used a
potential divider feeding the base of a BC238. This is made up of a 56K 1/4W
resistor and a 10uF capacitor. The Darlington pair is made up from a BC328 and
a BFY51 transistors dropping the LEDs to 0V or chassis earth. The feed is taken
from the brake light circuit which also feeds the LEDs.
The time is delay is about 10ms but just enough to stop the lamps flashing every
5 seconds. The full on braking display delay is not noticeable.
Circuit available if anyone wants it.
Hugh
>> >> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>> >> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>The problem is space - there's only just enough room for the bulb, so it
>would have to be external.
Sir Hugh of Bognor
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.
Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
Hugh Gundersen
hsg@h-gee.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
>> Have you thought of adding a resistor in line so the LED looks like a
>> light bulb to the computer?
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>warning device. I dunno how they work, but suspect there's a bit more to
>them than just a resistor.
Hi Dave
I thought it wouldn't be that easy ----------------- unless it's a f***ing big
resistor!
Must be some way.................