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Car Forum / BMW Cars / February 2007

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Engine Replacement

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Branden Nelsen - 19 Feb 2007 21:48 GMT
I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
wondering if these are good quotes for a normal replacement:

Engine 1
53,000 Mi
$6000 - Motor
$2000 - Labor
Total Est: $8000

Engine 2
120,000 Mi
$4500 - Motor
$2000 - Labor
Total Est: $6500

Now these are rough est. and it could be more or less depending on what
needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices on
a used engine installed?

Signature

Thank you,

~~~
Branden Nelsen

Dave Plowman (News) - 19 Feb 2007 22:49 GMT
> I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
> filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
> wondering if these are good quotes for a normal replacement:

I'd find a new 'shop' if they told you that.

Signature

*Vegetarians taste great*

   Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                 To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tom Scales - 19 Feb 2007 23:00 GMT
>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
> on a used engine installed?

I can't possibly see doing this.  For not much more you can just buy another
528i.  Just a little more than that and you can get an '00 or '01.

Part it out and invest in another car.

I'd also get a second opinion before I did anything.
Branden Nelsen - 19 Feb 2007 23:49 GMT
That's what I was afraid of. Which really sucks as the car is extremely
Immaculate inside and out. The only problem is the Engine.

-Branden

>>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> I'd also get a second opinion before I did anything.
SharkmanBMW - 19 Feb 2007 23:42 GMT
What "shop"??

Was that a Dealer???!!!

You can buy a flawless, beautiful e34 or e39 for less.

>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
> on a used engine installed?

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Branden Nelsen - 19 Feb 2007 23:46 GMT
It was a local shop that ived had do work before. They do Dealer level work
for less the the dealership would. Ive compared alot of items in the past
and they have always been alot cheaper.

-Branden

> What "shop"??
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
>> on a used engine installed?
z - 20 Feb 2007 01:14 GMT
> I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders
> are filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> $2000 - Labor
> Total Est: $6500

I'm with those guys.. that seems crazy high.  I guess the labor is in the
ball park but I'm amazed you can't find a good used engine for less than
$4500

Like  you can buy a completely reconditioned/rebuilt engine w/5 year
warranty from  http://www.bavengine.com/other.html  with clutch kit for
under 6k

Not that I've used them but just as an example.

Have you hit your local junk yards?

I guess if you really love the car its worth it .. I"m always willing to
spend money on something I want to keep for a long time.
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 13:04 GMT
Unfortunately I haven't looked at Junk yards. Ive just scouted eBay. Ill
check out that link thanks!

-Branden

>> I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders
>> are filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it,
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> I guess if you really love the car its worth it .. I"m always willing to
> spend money on something I want to keep for a long time.
stuart - 20 Feb 2007 10:59 GMT
> I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
> filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
> wondering if these are good quotes for a normal replacement:

What's in the other 2 cylinders?
Tom Scales - 20 Feb 2007 11:56 GMT
>> I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>> filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
>> wondering if these are good quotes for a normal replacement:
>>
> What's in the other 2 cylinders?

I wondered when someone was going to ask :)  It was so hard no to.
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 13:05 GMT
*sigh

Sorry ment all 6! Apparently ive failed at math lol.

-Branden

>> I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>> filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
>> wondering if these are good quotes for a normal replacement:
>>
> What's in the other 2 cylinders?
R. Mark Clayton - 20 Feb 2007 13:01 GMT
Can you be a bit more specific about the engine - like what happened, and
what were the symptoms.

>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
> on a used engine installed?

Replacing the car and selling the old one for breaking sounds a better deal,
but only if the engine is a write off and you can't get a replacement at a
sensible price (somewhat less than half the value of the car).
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 13:10 GMT
I was driving to work like normal, Everything was going great then all of
the sudden I lost all power to the engine. The Car still had Electric power,
just nothing from the engine. I pulled over and there was ALOT of smoke
rolling from the Exhaust in the rear. I also noticed that Oil (or what
looked ALOT like it) was dripping slowly from the exhaust also. I tried to
crank it over after abit and nothing happened at all. When it did happen the
Emissions, Oil and one other light I cant think of came on, on the dash.

I love the car, its the best ive driven and owned. The unfortunate part is I
still owe $7000 on it, so if I cant get it fixed ill be paying for a very
expensive lawn ornament :)

-Branden

> Can you be a bit more specific about the engine - like what happened, and
> what were the symptoms.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> replacement at a sensible price (somewhat less than half the value of the
> car).
JoshIII - 20 Feb 2007 15:28 GMT
> I was driving to work like normal, Everything was going great then all of
> the sudden I lost all power to the engine. The Car still had Electric power,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> crank it over after abit and nothing happened at all. When it did happen the
> Emissions, Oil and one other light I cant think of came on, on the dash.

JoshIII remembers:
Does your 528 use hydraulic fluid pump
to assist with power steering *and*
power brakes?

My old 1980's vintage 320i uses pneumatic power
brake assist taken from the intake manifold.

I am familiar with a case involving
my cousin's 1990's vintage Bronco II
of a defective pollution control
valve (PCV) or other check
valve that somehow allowed
oil or power steering fluid to get
injected into the intake manifold...

I'm doing this from memory, but it
seems like I remember the fluid involved was
from the power steering/braking system?

Apparently the braking system on that
vehicle relied on some combination of manifold
pressure (vacuum) and pressurized
fluid to actuate the brakes.  Failure
of some valve allowed fluid
to get mixed with intake air in his
engine.

The Bronco II  had German made
fuel injected Ford engines in them.

I remember when it happened, but
I don't remember all the the details.
I just remember he said plumes of
white smoke started billowing
out his exhaust.  When it happened,
he thought he had a blown an engine.

My cousin is a Ford mechanic.  I
should ask him about the experience
again.  He made the simple repair
of the valve himself.

JoshIII
upstate south carolina
admin - 20 Feb 2007 16:44 GMT
> I was driving to work like normal, Everything was going great then all of
> the sudden I lost all power to the engine. The Car still had Electric power,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> crank it over after abit and nothing happened at all. When it did happen the
> Emissions, Oil and one other light I cant think of came on, on the dash.

That does sound unpleasant..

Besides the engine, you're likely to need all the O2 sensors and the
catalytic converters if the oil actually was running from the exhaust.

It sounds as if you have a cracked head..

> I love the car, its the best ive driven and owned. The unfortunate part is I
> still owe $7000 on it, so if I cant get it fixed ill be paying for a very
> expensive lawn ornament :)

Not a good thing.

If it was me - I'd consider doing one of two things:

1. Find my own junkyard engine. The engines on these cars aren't
terribly troublesome so there should be some fine examples kicking
around in various junkyards. This is where Google, or membership in the
BMW-CCA would be useful. You want BMW specific junkyards like Vines
Automotive..   Get the same engine you have if you want the simplest
swap out..

2. Find an E36/M3 S52 engine. Direct drop-in, and MUCH more powerful
than the engine you have (240HP vs around 190HP) - it's plug and play
compatible.. but you might (not even sure if this is necessary) have to
get your engine ECU "flashed" to a ROM version for this engine. There
are various performance upgrade places that have software updates to do
this sort of thing.

#2 is gonna cost more - the S52 engines do go for some $$$ - but not any
more than either of the options you've listed. #1 should be considerably
less expensive than the quotes you got.

You might also check around (Yellow Pages) to see if there are shops in
your area that specialize in doing engine swaps...  there are shops like
this and they are usually less expensive and faster than using your
friendly local independent mechanic.

FWIW - a BMW rebuilt S54 engine (344HP) as used in the E46/M3 and the
Z4/M-Coupe is only about $6,500 with a good "core"..  the prices your
friendly mechanic is giving you seem awfully high.

> -Branden
R. Mark Clayton - 20 Feb 2007 17:20 GMT
>I was driving to work like normal, Everything was going great then all of
>the sudden I lost all power to the engine. The Car still had Electric
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>happen the Emissions, Oil and one other light I cant think of came on, on
>the dash.

Colour of smoke

White - water - wet fuel of water in head (gaskets or cracks)
Blue - oil - oil leak in head - gasket, crasks or worn / broken rings
Black - fuel - far too rich

How long have you had the car?  What sort of servicing?

> I love the car, its the best ive driven and owned. The unfortunate part is
> I still owe $7000 on it, so if I cant get it fixed ill be paying for a
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>> replacement at a sensible price (somewhat less than half the value of the
>> car).
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 17:26 GMT
It was White/Grey smoke.

**Replaced within the last year**
Front Struts
Front Control arms and bushings
Rear Control arms and bushings
Front Rotors
Spark Plugs (Bosch Platinum 4+)
Airfilter with K&N Airfilter
VANOS Timing system
All filters in the car

Oil has been changed every 3-4000mi and Inspection 2 done within last
7500~miles

Ive owned the car for only about 1.5years.

-Branden

>>I was driving to work like normal, Everything was going great then all of
>>the sudden I lost all power to the engine. The Car still had Electric
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>>> replacement at a sensible price (somewhat less than half the value of
>>> the car).
R. Mark Clayton - 20 Feb 2007 18:19 GMT
> It was White/Grey smoke.

Could be blown head gasket (cheap, but there is usually an expensive
underlying cause), warped head or a crack.

Were there any chuffing noises before it stopped?

Did the engine still turn on the starter?

> **Replaced within the last year**
> Front Struts
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>>>> replacement at a sensible price (somewhat less than half the value of
>>>> the car).
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 19:08 GMT
No noises that I heard. And the engine didn't turn over at all afterwards or
even sound like an attempt to turn over.

-Branden

>> It was White/Grey smoke.
>
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>>>>> replacement at a sensible price (somewhat less than half the value of
>>>>> the car).
R. Mark Clayton - 20 Feb 2007 21:19 GMT
> No noises that I heard. And the engine didn't turn over at all afterwards
> or even sound like an attempt to turn over.
>
> -Branden

Then repair is unlikely :-(

>>> It was White/Grey smoke.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>> Did the engine still turn on the starter?
Jim - 20 Feb 2007 15:56 GMT
>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
> on a used engine installed?

You said "al 4 cylinders"?  There are 6 cylinders in a 528.  I must wonder
about these shops.
Jim
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 19:09 GMT
That was a oops on my part, I meant to say all 6 not 4 ;(

-Branden

>>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> about these shops.
> Jim
Jack - 20 Feb 2007 17:46 GMT
It sounds to me like this shop is not really interested in doing this job
judging from the prices quoted.
I see used M52 engines on Ebay for $2000 to $3000 so these guys are
apparently marking up the engine cost by about 100%.  The swap job should
only take an experienced mechanic 8 hours to perform so they seem to be
marking up the labor by 100% also.
If you have any other options I would seek another quote or if they are your
only choice you could buy the engine yourself and have them install it.

>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
> on a used engine installed?
John Carrier - 20 Feb 2007 19:46 GMT
>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
>wondering if these are good quotes for a normal replacement:

Did somebody steal two of your cylinders?

R / John
Branden Nelsen - 20 Feb 2007 19:55 GMT
Yes, Yes they did.

-Branden

>>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> R / John
dizzy - 20 Feb 2007 23:52 GMT
>>>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>>>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Yes, Yes they did.

It was me.  I now have a straight-8!  Cool...
Branden Nelsen - 21 Feb 2007 13:12 GMT
*shakes fist

Bastard! Give me my Cylinders!

>>>>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>>>>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> It was me.  I now have a straight-8!  Cool...
Branden Nelsen - 23 Feb 2007 21:53 GMT
Well i got the car back from the shop and on the ticket this is thier diag:

"Vehicle will not crank or turn over by hand. Removed spark plugs and found
oil on top of cylinders. Engine is hydrolocked. Requires new engine
installed."

-Branden

>I have a 99' 528i. That recently the engine died on. All 4 cylinders are
>filled with Oil. The Shop indicates that I need a new motor in it, I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> needs replaced in the end (Hoses, Water pump etc...) Are those ok prices
> on a used engine installed?
 
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