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Car Forum / BMW Cars / June 2007Flood damage to car engines
Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into such a flood. Other cars were passing through it and once my turn came I atempted to go through the flood about 1foot high. My car stopped dead about 5m into the flood and I phoned BMW emergency who took my car to a dealer. I have since found out that the engine as been wrote off along with turbo's and intercooler and the bill is above 15k to repair the car. At the BMW garage they have had above 10 cars this week with the same problem and my friend who is the head mechanic at the local Mercedes garage has had over 40 with the same problem. Apparently the water goes through the air intake into the engine prevents the piston compressing and then the con rods go through the engine sides. What I cannot understand is why do they not tell you this? If you new the damage that could be done no one would attempt to go through floods. The other thing is this is a modern car problem as older cars air intake was on top off the engine and no such damage ever ocurred. I am covered by my insurance but have obviously got to pay my excess. I feel this is a scam by the car manufacturers and dealers because there must be a way of preventing this from happening but its obviously not in there interest to prevent it as the income that it generates for the garages is an income paid by the insurance. I.e free turnover! I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? > I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? It's happening because drivers who don't THINK are driving into water too deep for the car. What made you think the car works like a boat? Manufacturers cannot protect vehicles against all stupid moves by their drivers - and this qualifies. > > I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Manufacturers cannot protect vehicles against all stupid moves by their > drivers - and this qualifies. ----- No offense, OP, but if you cannot breathe water, what makes you think your car can? Brings to mind the movie line, "So, who's the U-boat commander?". Me thinks someone has seen too many wilderness treks where the "specially-outfitted" trucks go through water up to the windshield and keep on moving. STOOPID. Bill in Omaha '86 535i And yeah, I said that! >> > I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >> > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >And yeah, I said that! Come on guys - Really how many of you realised that all the NEW BMW and Mercedes had the air intake below the Axle centre? If you are really honest none of you did. The air filter is still on the top and there is no mention in the hand book regarding rivers, streams and fords. There are many such things in the UK and other places in the world. the Handbook mentions other things to be wary of like snow chains and when to use DTC etc. So why not mention something that is blatently different from what is/was considerd the NORM for best part of 100 years. We all know that the coolest air is near the ground but at what cost - good god we might just suck up a Kamakazi Water Ouzel and block the air filter! I feel sympathy for the guy --------------- Good job you didn't buy an X5 and expect it to go anywhere >>> > I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >>> > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > and Mercedes had the air intake below the Axle centre? If you are > really honest none of you did. so if you hit a big mud puddle you might blow your car up? Sheesh.. and the intake is down there I guess you don't want to drive on dusty roads very often or you'd be changing the air filter every couple of weeks. > Come on guys - Really how many of you realised that all the NEW BMW and > Mercedes had the air intake below the Axle centre? It's been common practice for years to position it in the coolest airsteam - which means as low as possible and clear of the rad, etc. My 20 year old car has it at bumper level.  Signature*They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. On Jun 21, 3:10 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article <u4al73lm4672mppu9nneedar6fn06mt...@4ax.com>, > <h...@h-gee.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > airsteam - which means as low as possible and clear of the rad, etc. My > 20 year old car has it at bumper level. I have to remind myself to not practice my highspeed puddle clearing maneuvers when in my car. My wife's SUV still soothes my inner beast. a. > On Jun 21, 3:10 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > a. It would appear that only lemmings and Mercedes drivers are unable to restrain their instinct to dive into any available body of water. <about hydrolocked engines> >Come on guys - Really how many of you realised that all the NEW BMW and Mercedes >had the air intake below the Axle centre? If you are really honest none of you >did. I'll own up to not knowing that. SignatureDan. >>> > I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >>> > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >I feel sympathy for the guy --------------- Good job you didn't buy an X5 and >expect it to go anywhere What a terrible bit of design... I have a ford near me, and drive through it in my E36 when it's a foot deep. It's not like it's over the headlights at that height. I remember hearing similar horror stories about one of the VW Golfs, I think it might have been the mark 2... Find small puddle, drive in, stop, call recovery. As for the description of what happens, the fluid lock is the least of your problems, that can be drained out, the big problem is cold water hitting red hot valves, they tend to go "ping" and the heads drop of. If this happens to enough of them that the engine keeps turning, the pistons mash the now very mobile bit of valve up and down, sometimes through the piston crown, sometimes through the head. Very very messy. Dodgy. SignatureMUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES >> I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >> about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Manufacturers cannot protect vehicles against all stupid moves by their >drivers - and this qualifies. B - boat M - motor car W - Water Well said, Blame the manufacturer instead of your own stupidity. People should start taking responsibilty for their own action. Drink a hot cup of coffes and sue some one because it is too hot. Bloody IDIOTS. >> I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >> about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Manufacturers cannot protect vehicles against all stupid moves by their > drivers - and this qualifies. > I feel this is a scam by the car manufacturers and > dealers because there must be a way of preventing this from happening but > its obviously not in there interest to prevent it as the income that it > generates for the garages is an income paid by the insurance. Huh? You've got to be kidding. You're driving a BMW 335, not an X5, X3 or some other SUV. Signaturethepixelfreak > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > compressing and then the con rods go through the engine sides. What I > cannot understand is why do they not tell you this? Tell you what? That you're driving a car and not a boat? > If you new the damage that could be done no one would attempt to go > through floods. The other thing is this is a modern car problem as older > cars air intake was on top off the engine and no such damage ever > ocurred. It's simply not true that all older cars had the air inlet on the top - those with side draught carbs like SUs often had them on the side. But they would and did sustain the same damage if the water got into the inlet. Fuel injection cars have a very much better designed inlet tract - and this often means siting the intake fairly low and to the front to get the coldest possible air into the engine. You reap the benefit of this with better performance and fuel economy. > I am covered by > my insurance but have obviously got to pay my excess. I feel this is a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > someone who as expierenced this or nows more about it to enlighten me as > to why this is happening??? I doubt a warning in the handbook about the maximum depth of water would have much effect. How are you going to measure it? Of course some cars might get through a foot of water while others don't. A Land Rover might be able to cope with several feet. Signature*Virtual reality is its own reward* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > In article > <173e02d8df1e714561a26bbdf4911224@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > might get through a foot of water while others don't. A Land Rover might > be able to cope with several feet. A few feet, like maybe two - and it is going to get in the cabin. You probably want to PX the vehicle ASAP afterwards... >> In article >> <173e02d8df1e714561a26bbdf4911224@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >You probably want to PX the vehicle ASAP afterwards... LOL! You're not kidding. My brother's Landy has a snorkel. I've been with him when he's gone through over 4 feet of water.... It pours round the doors... Luckily I wasn't daft, I was sitting on the roof rack at the time! Luckily as they're rather agricultural, cleaning them out is as simple as pulling the mats and seats out, and turning the hose on. Dodgy. SignatureMUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > turnover! I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? I am sure that the user manual for my BMW gives advice about not driving through water, and how to minimise the risk of damage if you have to (e.g. to escape rising flood water), so if all else fails read the instructions or RTFM. Basically if the water is deeper than the ground clearance you are taking a huge risk, even if the engine escapes damage, water is likely to get into the cabin and ruin carpets etc. Most flood water is dirty and often filthy, so don't go there! The short answer is "stupidity!" >I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > turnover! I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? That other cars apparently made it through and your BMW did not would suggest that the intake is lower -- than shall we say a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry. But, with water a foot high there also was probably a wake. 15k to repair seems high, though. > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > turnover! I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? You are supposed to know that driving in deep water is bad. > > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > You are supposed to know that driving in deep water is bad. in all my 70's celicas i had, i used to blast through floods, hell the water was higher than my car with the spash...theres a couple of road sin Sheffield that always flood, ones under a bridge in a dip, i always went through it, the other cars had to goto the middle of the road slow, and still conk out, i used to just keep going, only problem i had, was the force on the streering wheel, or if i forgot to shut the window... good fun.... >> > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding >> > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > good fun.... For future reference, sucking water into the motor can be fatal for the motor. This is not something that is new. The term of this is hydrolock. Water does not compress as the piston rises, the resulting solid block that forms between the top of the piston and the bottom of the cylinder head can cause any number of horrible things to happen. Typically, a connecting rod will break. When you drive into water and make a splash that washes over the hood, there is an air pocket around the engine intake, but if the water is deep enough, when the pocket collapses water can get sucked into the motor. If the motor is spinning slowly at that point, it may only stall out due to the intrusion of water, but if the motor is cranking at a high speed then the solid block of water will do serious damage. It you are lucky, the distributor gets wet and stalls the motor before any serious damage can result. Of course, at that point water is high enough to seep in around the doors and soak the carpets, but that can be dried. > >> > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > >> > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > that point water is high enough to seep in around the doors and soak the > carpets, but that can be dried. yeah, the air intake on the old celcia's was a tiny hole, on a long neck.....of course when i was young i didnt think of the outcome, just laughing at the other cars....guess i was lucky though > When you drive into water and make a splash that washes over the hood, > there is an air pocket around the engine intake, but if the water is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > enough to seep in around the doors and soak the carpets, but that can > be dried. Distributor? ;-) Signature*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> When you drive into water and make a splash that washes over the hood, >> there is an air pocket around the engine intake, but if the water is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Distributor? ;-) Well, on an older motor, or at least a motor with yesteryear technology. I am absolutely amazed at how stupidity gets so much play these days. I remember when someone would just say "dumbass" and the subject was dropped. This thread has taken on a life of it's own. Almost "troll-like". Bill in Omaha '86 535i BINGO!! >I am absolutely amazed at how stupidity gets so much play these days. I > remember when someone would just say "dumbass" and the subject was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bill in Omaha > '86 535i dumbass. > I am absolutely amazed at how stupidity gets so much play these days. I > remember when someone would just say "dumbass" and the subject was dropped. > This thread has taken on a life of it's own. Almost "troll-like". > > Bill in Omaha > '86 535i >> I am absolutely amazed at how stupidity gets so much play these days. I >> remember when someone would just say "dumbass" and the subject was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Bill in Omaha >> '86 535i > dumbass. Nice try, but you forgot about Oscar! Tom K. > dumbass. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bill in Omaha > > '86 535i Thank You and goodnight. That's a very nice story, Brad. Thanks for the entertainment. > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > turnover! I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? >Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding >country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >dealer. I have since found out that the engine as been wrote off along >with turbo's and intercooler and the bill is above 15k to repair the car. Congratulations, your stupidity has killed a car. Replace it with something cheaper until you learn your lesson... >At the BMW garage they have had above 10 cars this week with the same >problem and my friend who is the head mechanic at the local Mercedes >garage has had over 40 with the same problem. >Apparently the water goes through the air intake into the engine prevents >the piston compressing and then the con rods go through the engine sides. Water does not compress. You can put it under pressure, but you can't compress it. What has happened to your engine is a result of attempting to do so. At least you have now had the opportunity to learn this. >What I cannot understand is why do they not tell you this? Take any science classes in school? >If you new the damage that could be done no one would attempt to go through floods You're giving poeple WAY too much credit. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers... >The other thing is this is a modern car problem as older cars air intake was on top >off the engine and no such damage ever ocurred. The older cars suffered from cracked exhaust manifold and sometimes even engine blocks as the hot CAST IRON parts were cooled rapidly by cold water. >I am covered by my insurance but have obviously got to pay my excess. You're lucky they're paying anything... >I feel this is a scam by the car manufacturers and >dealers because there must be a way of preventing this from happening but >its obviously not in there interest to prevent it as the income that it >generates for the garages is an income paid by the insurance. I.e free >turnover! So it's all one big conspiracy? Are you kidding? If it were really that big of a problem, don't you think there would be a public outcry or something? Not in thier best interest? If the cars they built were widely known to have major faults, do you think they'd be selling many of them? >I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more >about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? See the text inserted above and maybe you'll get a grip on what happened. If not, I'm not sure what to tell you other than to buy a bicycle. They'll go through as much water as you want to pedal through (although you might want to repack the bearings afterwards to avoid having to point the finger at the bicycle manufacturer later down the road). In case you are wondering why, the bearings will eventually rust due to the excess moisture trapped in the bearing cavity. I doubt you're going to find anyone that is going to side with you on this. Good luck however... I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer within the car industry for 40 years and this problem can be prevented by sensors that can cause engine shut down. The fact you are talking as if this was done on purpose? In England floods are an every month occurance and I have been through hundreds of floods in my time some a lot deeper than this one was. So the manufactures have a responsability to point out the dangers in their handbook but they dont why? > I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I > have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer > within the car industry for 40 years and this problem can be prevented by > sensors that can cause engine shut down. Just how do you shut down a rotating engine instantly? You could, I suppose, fit a valve on the intake to prevent water ingress as they do on some severe off road vehicles, but you've got a car, haven't you? > The fact you are talking as if this was done on purpose? In England > floods are an every month occurance and I have been through hundreds of > floods in my time some a lot deeper than this one was. So the > manufactures have a responsability to point out the dangers in their > handbook but they dont why? Since you and your dad appear to be such experts, why didn't you notice the position of the air intake? Signature*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I > have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > than this one was. So the manufactures have a responsability to point out > the dangers in their handbook but they dont why? The manufacturer has no responsibility to tell you that you are stupid, then protect you from yourself. The problem can be prevented by being smarter than a rock. PS Its "right context," not write. > "bradthomas" <brad@thomassms.freeserve.co.uk> wrote >>I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > The problem can be prevented by being smarter than a rock. This guy impresses me as being as smart as the guys that go *AROUND* the signs that "Road Closed Due to Water" that then need to be rescued. FloydR >>I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I >> have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >PS >Its "right context," not write. So why does Smith & Wesson put a warning notice on their gun boxes and instruction saying "Guns can Kill do not point a loaded weapon at anything you do not wish to be destroyed." (or something very similar as I haven't seen one for about 10 years now) >>The manufacturer has no responsibility to tell you that you are stupid, then >>protect you from yourself. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > do not wish to be destroyed." (or something very similar as I haven't seen one > for about 10 years now) I think it was Smith's idea. He was a dumbass. Or maybe it was Wesson? Signature-Fred W >>>I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I >>> have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > one > for about 10 years now) Because a judge made them do it. You can be sure that they know guns can kill, and they expect their customers to know that. But, they are warning against the dangers of a gun, not the dangers of taking a car swimming when swimming is not something that cars are built and bred to do. Gun makers are not protecting you from yourself, they are protecting me from you. >>>>I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I >>>> have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >Gun makers are not protecting you from yourself, they are protecting me from >you. No they are not Jeff. they are protecting themselves from me and you from filing a law suit for not telling us it was dangerous to point a loaded weapon at something you didn't want destroyed. I think it was exactly this type of class action that made them and Colt do it. However, back to our guy in the UK. It is not unusual to encounter a public road with a FORD (a stream crossing not the car although mistakes do happen and there is often a loud crunch!) Many motoring book and magazines used to give out information regularly regarding "hazardous" driving situations in the summer but mainly for the winter months and driving through flood water or streams was always - "Select the lowest gear you can and proceed very slowly keeping the revs as high as possible by (if the car has one) slipping the clutch" This advice has always stuck in my mind from an early age and I would guess that the OP had been given such advice in the past - maybe by a driving instructor - I may be mistaken but if I remember correctly at one time this advice was also given in the UK "Highway Code" which is almost the UK driving bible although it may not be in the current version which is being withdrawn due to the fact that the wording instructs cyclists to use the cycle tracks if provided instead of advising them - Bikes should be banned from the roads!!!!!!!!!! BTW apparently cyclists are not subject to speed limits as there is no requirement to have a speedo' fitted but are liable to be "done" for reckless riding. >>>>>I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. >>>>>I [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > No they are not Jeff. they are protecting themselves Ultimately that is precisely what they are doing. But they aren't worried that you are going to harm yourself and then sue, they are worried that you are going to harm me, then I will sue because they did not caution you to not harm me. No matter what, or whom, the gun makers are protecting against, the idea behind what they are doing is much different than what the OP is wanting. I'd like to see the OP go after the car cmpany because they did not tell him that the car was not intended to be a boat ... > No matter what, or whom, the gun makers are protecting against, the idea > behind what they are doing is much different than what the OP is wanting. > I'd like to see the OP go after the car cmpany because they did not tell > him that the car was not intended to be a boat ... If he does, (no matter the outcome) we'll see new BMW stickers saying "WARNING: Do Not Drive in the River", and the product liability lawyers will pocket their fee. Tom K. >>>>>>I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. >>>>>>I [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >I'd like to see the OP go after the car cmpany because they did not tell him >that the car was not intended to be a boat ... Good God! And I bought a convertible thinking that half the time I could use it as a boat! >I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. A John Lennon fan then? >I have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer >within the car industry for 40 years and this problem can be prevented by >sensors that can cause engine shut down. The fact you are talking as if >this was done on purpose? In England floods are an every month occurance >and I have been through hundreds of floods in my time some a lot deeper >than this one was. Then you have been very lucky. Every year all around the world news reports show cars that have drowned trying to cross flooded areas. I guess BMW thinks its clientelle is sufficiently intelligent to know that the car is not designed for fording creeks and floods like Land Rovers and Jeeps. IIRC, the BMW manual also does not mention the inadvisability of running the car in a closed, unventilated garage. Perhaps they should be told? >So the manufactures have a responsability to point out >the dangers in their handbook but they dont why? Like the warning label on electric heaters "Do not use in the shower" or on the dessicant packages that come packed with electronics "Do Not Eat!"? Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with vegatables for years. Your preident speaks voulumes for you.plus your cars sell so well ouside of the USA and we supply all your indy car engines! >Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are >related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with >vegatables for years. Your preident speaks voulumes for you.plus your cars >sell so well ouside of the USA and we supply all your indy car engines! In other words, you're saying "am I bothered?". >Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are >related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with >vegatables for years. Your preident speaks voulumes for you.plus your cars >sell so well ouside of the USA and we supply all your indy car engines! Learn to spell or shut up you make it worse for the rest of us. >> Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are >> related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with >> vegatables for years. Your preident speaks voulumes for you.plus your cars >> sell so well ouside of the USA and we supply all your indy car engines! > > Learn to spell or shut up you make it worse for the rest of us. That's a good suggestion. While he is learning to spell, you can learn to put together a sentence. > >> Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who > >> are related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > Learn to spell or shut up you make it worse for the rest of us. > That's a good suggestion. While he is learning to spell, you can learn > to put together a sentence. I just wonder who the 'us' is. Here, to me, 'us' is those BMW enthusiasts who choose to read this group. Nothing else matters. Signature*Caution: I drive like you do. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >> Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who >> >> are related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Nothing else matters. I was thinking of us in the way of BRITS > >I just wonder who the 'us' is. > > > >Here, to me, 'us' is those BMW enthusiasts who choose to read this > >group. > > > >Nothing else matters. > I was thinking of us in the way of BRITS Judging by some of the shite written here by a few I'm glad to be a Scot. ;-) Signature*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>> Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are >>> related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That's a good suggestion. While he is learning to spell, you can learn >to put together a sentence. No Chance Oops! No chance > Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are > related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with > vegatables for years. Your preident speaks voulumes for you.plus your cars > sell so well ouside of the USA and we supply all your indy car engines! That makes no sense at all. None. "We supply all of your Indy Car engines." Who is "we"? The Indy cars on my TV have Honda motors, which come from Japan if my memory serves. "We" don't supply all of anything, loser. >> Your all over inflated ego planks sorry yanks on this web site, who are >> related to the potatoe and as "Clarkson" says have been breeding with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >TV have Honda motors, which come from Japan if my memory serves. "We" don't >supply all of anything, loser. Actually I think you will find that about 98% of the Indy cars are either built in the UK or are fabricated from parts made in the UK especially the Carbon Fibre tubs that protect the driver and that everything else is hung on. Many of the power plants (engines) are built in the UK too maybe not that much now although I'll agree it appears that the basic stock comes from Japan but HONDA actually make many of their race car parts in the UK factory and not Japan. > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:47:57 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> > wrote: >>"We supply all of your Indy Car engines." Who is "we"? The Indy cars on my >>TV have Honda motors, which come from Japan if my memory serves. "We" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > HONDA actually make many of their race car parts in the UK factory and not > Japan. Except that you're wrong. 1) Dallara is an ITALIAN company (which builds and manufactures about 1/2 the cars), and 2) the PANOZ chassis is owned by the US Elan Motorsports (which also does AMLS, IMSA and NASCAR stuff) and is built in Georgia, USA. Oh, yes, BTW. All the Champ Cars are Panoz chassis, built in Georgia. FloydR >> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:47:57 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >FloydR Ok but the drivers are sh.t and that's why a Brit won Indy! <Oscar@nowhere.com> wrote in > Ok but the drivers are sh.t and that's why a Brit won Indy! A Canadian (Paul Tracy) won the Champ race last weekend, Dario Franchitti (a Scottish-born Italian) won the Indy race, and Juan Pablo Montoya (Argentine) won the NASCAR race. That's what makes USA great. I'm glad you're back in the UK. FloydR ><Oscar@nowhere.com> wrote in >> Ok but the drivers are sh.t and that's why a Brit won Indy! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >FloydR I thought they said Montoya was born in Columbia? Either way, I could easily be wrong. How did this topic go from "Look at how stupid I am for driving my car through a flooded area, it MUST be the manufacturers fault" to who makes what for whom??? The dumb a.s that started this topic did a wonderful job of steering the subject away from his stupidity. I won't even start on the Brits. Lovely people but they have thier share of issues... >><Oscar@nowhere.com> wrote in >>> Ok but the drivers are sh.t and that's why a Brit won Indy! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I won't even start on the Brits. Lovely people but they have thier >share of issues... And now we have Gordon Brown ---- Arrrrgh! Bush seem so intelligent now > And now we have Gordon Brown ---- Arrrrgh! > Bush seem so intelligent now The most successful Chancellor in living memory with the longest period of sustained growth and financial stability. But your memory is obviously failing... Signature*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> And now we have Gordon Brown ---- Arrrrgh! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >sustained growth and financial stability. But your memory is obviously >failing... I agree but then he was told or authorised what he can do by TB and now I fear the same with all previous Labour PMs.... I got you by the bollocks now squeal. I bet we get higher taxation, lower wage rises, more indirect double and treble taxation, less hospitals and associated services etc. The way I see it is that Gordon was promised the job or thought he would be PM from the start and has held sour grapes ever since. He was handed the PM on a plate early so he could get the pension at the higher rate and then get a knighthood or similar as Tony will instead of retiring on a lower pay scale and not gongs to wear. Beware - put all your spare cash off shore in a Cayman Island bank where Gordon can't touch it. If you want it closer then the Swiss still have numbered accounts. >>><Oscar@nowhere.com> wrote in >>>> Ok but the drivers are sh.t and that's why a Brit won Indy! [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Bush seem so intelligent now Holy sh.t, this Gordon Brown must be a REAL loser if he makes Bush look intelligent. Who is he and what's his role over there? >>>><Oscar@nowhere.com> wrote in >>>>> Ok but the drivers are sh.t and that's why a Brit won Indy! [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Holy sh.t, this Gordon Brown must be a REAL loser if he makes Bush >look intelligent. Who is he and what's his role over there? Was Chancellor of the Exchequer (keeper of the money and how it is spent - he set the tax etc) now he is the Prime Minister - running the country! God help us. However as Dave says he has kept inflation down and wages down and let loads of other nationalities in to claim from our benefit system drive uninsured on our roads, rape and pillage (took my original job as chief rape and pillager - I am a Norseman a Viking) so in one respect he has been good for the UK in general but now we are taxed to the hilt and get virtually NOTHING from it. Pot holed roads, double taxation and low wages. the rich get richer the poor get poorer and the middle classes just pay and pay and pay. Steve > the rich get richer the poor get > poorer and the middle classes just pay and pay and pay. Hmm. Add the occasional armed invasion and you've got the Bush-Cheney agenda. Wanna trade? Tom K. >> the rich get richer the poor get >> poorer and the middle classes just pay and pay and pay. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Tom K. Any day -------- looking at a couple of houses in France (must be better) and one in Spain near Alicante >>>And now we have Gordon Brown ---- Arrrrgh! >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Steve Sounds like old GWB alright. Let the ILLEGAL Mexicans draw on social security and the rest of the social programs that I help to pay for. Oh well, sooner or later the people of our respective countries will once again rise up against their goverments and correct the wrongs that are being done. >> I won't even start on the Brits. Lovely people but they have thier >>share of issues... > >And now we have Gordon Brown ---- Arrrrgh! > >Bush seem so intelligent now No, he doesn't. And there is no juxtaposition possible that can change that. A Cuisinart is still *way* more intelligent than Bush... /daytripper '00 s4 6spd >I dont know if most of you taking this seriously in the write context. I > have worked on engines since I was a boy and my Dad has been an Engineer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > than this one was. So the manufactures have a responsability to point out > the dangers in their handbook but they dont why? You may wish to purchase an X3 which BMW specs as having a 19.7" "Fording Capability". Since they make no such claims for their sedans (saloons), this SUV may be more suitable for your driving habits. Tom K. > Due to the recent downpours we have had there has been lots of flooding > country wide. Unfortunately I drove my 6 month old BMW 335d Coupe into [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > turnover! I would just like someone who as expierenced this or nows more > about it to enlighten me as to why this is happening??? Reminds me when there was a local flooding and several idiots drove right through the water and stalled their cars. I parked and watched for about half an hour, both for amusement and to estimate whether or not I could make it through in my '92 535. Knowing where the intake is I decided against it. I noticed that it was almost only European cars that had problems, among them a couple of BMW's... Ulf
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