Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
Anyway...
1. Does sport package mean teh suspension is "sportier" or is it just
bigger rims?
1b. What do bigger rims alone do for you?
2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
VernMan@my.home - 15 Oct 2007 23:00 GMT
>Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
>package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
>ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
BMW's don't have parts that go bad. Just kidding ;-) They are very
reliable cars and last a long long time. But they have to be properly
maintained. I wouldn't worry about getting one non-certified, but you
have to check the maintenance record.
And no, it's not just bigger rims, and bigger rims don't do anything
for you except grey ypur hai when you are parrallel parking <eg>
The sports package has a suspension upgrade, at least on the E46 Ci.
It's a more stiffer ride. Not on the xi, which has no suspension
modifications, just the wheels and the steering wheel. but that's not
what you are looking at.
dizzy - 16 Oct 2007 00:34 GMT
>1. Does sport package mean teh suspension is "sportier" or is it just
>bigger rims?
Lowered suspension, somewhat stiffer as well. Bigger wheels. Sport
seats. Maybe a different front air-dam.
Robert - 16 Oct 2007 02:46 GMT
> Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
> package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
>
> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
I bought an E46 4-door (2000) with 117,000, the maintenance was
performed by the dealer and when the older owner brought the car in for
the trade in the dealer fixed the expansion tank, fan belts and one
suspension arm (I don't have all the records right here). This is the
first foreign / BMW I have ever owned, my regret, not doing it earlier.
As long as it has been maintained and a mechanic has looked it over with
a thumbs up I believe you will be okay. Right now I have put over 9k
miles on it and all it has required is tires.
Ron - 16 Oct 2007 05:47 GMT
> Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
> package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
In '94, I bought a '91 E30 318i with 45k miles on it. Sure, things have
broken and can be expensive to fix but it's a darn nice car. Now that it
has 177k miles on it, it needs some expensive stuff (the usual - brakes,
struts/shocks, tires) but the engine is still strong and doesn't burn
oil. I'm going to keep getting it fixed for at least a few more years.
Ron
adder1969 - 16 Oct 2007 13:11 GMT
> Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
> package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
There's not much special attention that a BMW needs over any other
car. As with most cars, oil changes are the most important thing. I
bought a certified car from BMW but there were still things wrong with
it. Looking back, I'd had rather paid less for a non-certified car
and used the money for fixing things if necessary.
>From my experience, and many others, the danger of buying a BMW with
the intention of having BMW do any servicing etc is that you'll turn
into an angry and bitter person having to deal with the monkeys at the
dealerships.
Choam Nomsky - 17 Oct 2007 00:55 GMT
A very big DITTO... you cannot depend on the Stealer to work on your car.
>> Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
>> package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> into an angry and bitter person having to deal with the monkeys at the
> dealerships.

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kpb - 20 Oct 2007 03:32 GMT
> A very big DITTO... you cannot depend on the Stealer to work on your car.
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Who can you depend on to work on your car if not a dealer? Wouldn't
they know the most about it and what it needs? I would think there
would be enough dealers that you'd be able to find a competent one.
Dave Plowman (News) - 20 Oct 2007 08:21 GMT
> Who can you depend on to work on your car if not a dealer? Wouldn't
> they know the most about it and what it needs? I would think there
> would be enough dealers that you'd be able to find a competent one.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? I've tried about 10 over the years and in
general been between dissatisfied and very dissatisfied with the results.
Everything from incompetence to dishonesty.
Why use one? Well I don't now the car is older, but when newish the UK
market sets great store by a dealer service history. I never intended
keeping this car as long as I have - but it's never told me it's time to
change like others do. ;-)
I now use a specialist who is closer to me than the nearest dealer anyway
(luck) and am very satisfied with them. Just one example - I took my
'other' car there for an MOT and they fixed two minor - but 'fail' things
without charge and without even telling me.
It was amusing - it's a 22 year old Rover SD1 in pretty good condition.
Gleaming black. And despite being surrounded by BMWs and Mercs all day the
mechanics all came out to have a look when I arrived with it.

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Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dori A Schmetterling - 21 Oct 2007 18:28 GMT
Rarity value.
In London BMWs and Mercs are as common as muck...
DAS

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For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
---
[...]
> It was amusing - it's a 22 year old Rover SD1 in pretty good condition.
> Gleaming black. And despite being surrounded by BMWs and Mercs all day the
> mechanics all came out to have a look when I arrived with it.
hsg@h-gee.co.uk - 20 Oct 2007 09:47 GMT
>> A very big DITTO... you cannot depend on the Stealer to work on your car.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>they know the most about it and what it needs? I would think there
>would be enough dealers that you'd be able to find a competent one.
Although I hate using dealers they do - actually - know more about the car than
anybody else. I spent over 30 years in the performance car business in the UK
and know that in general the "Shady back street Joe" image will always be
present. Rip off merchants are still about and many I came into contact with
were actually the local main FORD & BL (Austin, Morris etc.) and the odd Jaguar
dealers and not the independents!
As an example there is a ritual to go through when re-setting the on board
computer on an E65 and that is to add up all the digits (numbers) in the VIN
code and press the mileage reset button that number of times - in my case it's
24 times and in the centre of the speedo you will get a read-out of the things
you can do.
I think it runs Linux!
I complained that my car was rather sluggish from a standing start and had a
flat spot when rolling to a junction and then gunning it into the traffic.
The dealer's "technician" and specialist deduced that the problem was the
"learning" feature of the auto box programming. I thought it was fuel cut off on
the over-run or dropping 2 gears before pulling away.
So in fact my last deduction was partially correct and the gearbox program had
learnt that the dealer I had bought the car from used it as a town run-about
demo unit having done only 3K in 4 months as a gently driven show car.
The guy wiped the memory and reprogrammed the unit to actually engage 1st gear
when stopped and it appears that the new programming is half way between normal
and sport - sport hangs the gears longer and doesn't engage 6th.
the car now goes like a rocket and is a real pleasure to drive - Downside - a
little more fuel being used down from an average of 34MPG (IMP) to 32MPG (IMP)
BTW the car is a new 07 E65 730d.

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Sir Hugh of Bognor
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.
Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
Hugh Gundersen
hsg@h-gee.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
Dave Plowman (News) - 20 Oct 2007 12:47 GMT
> The dealer's "technician" and specialist deduced that the problem was
> the "learning" feature of the auto box programming. I thought it was
> fuel cut off on the over-run or dropping 2 gears before pulling away.
> So in fact my last deduction was partially correct and the gearbox
> program had learnt that the dealer I had bought the car from used it as
> a town run-about demo unit having done only 3K in 4 months as a gently
> driven show car.
On my E39 the 'learning' is instant. The basic programme is the normal one
- press on and it raises the gear change points, etc. I haven't known it
reduce the change up speeds beyond the 'basic' with gentle driving. That
would be stupid. Forcing the torque convertor to churn with a lower gear
available (within reason) is bad for economy.
> The guy wiped the memory and reprogrammed the unit to actually engage
> 1st gear when stopped and it appears that the new programming is half
> way between normal and sport - sport hangs the gears longer and doesn't
> engage 6th.
There is something in my handbook about a second gear start. But the only
may mine does this is if you use the Steptronic. And either select second
or let the car come to rest in a high gear. Which seems a weird feature
for what must be a sports option beyond the sport setting - or used when
towing, etc.

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Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Fred W - 21 Oct 2007 21:57 GMT
> There is something in my handbook about a second gear start. But the only
> may mine does this is if you use the Steptronic. And either select second
> or let the car come to rest in a high gear. Which seems a weird feature
> for what must be a sports option beyond the sport setting - or used when
> towing, etc.
That sounds more like "winter" mode on the transmission to me.

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-Fred W
Dave Plowman (News) - 21 Oct 2007 22:53 GMT
> > There is something in my handbook about a second gear start. But the
> > only may mine does this is if you use the Steptronic. And either
> > select second or let the car come to rest in a high gear. Which seems
> > a weird feature for what must be a sports option beyond the sport
> > setting - or used when towing, etc.
> That sounds more like "winter" mode on the transmission to me.
I'd like a third gear start for ice etc. But the 'nanny state' steptronic
won't allow it. My previous E34 with the same box would.

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Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Scott Dorsey - 21 Oct 2007 19:38 GMT
>Who can you depend on to work on your car if not a dealer? Wouldn't
>they know the most about it and what it needs? I would think there
>would be enough dealers that you'd be able to find a competent one.
Depends on what you have and who the dealer is. For a lot of older cars,
the dealers just can't keep an old-timer around who knows what the odd
problems with them are, and you're better off with an independent shop
that knows them well.
BMW's recent change in service schedule now means that although you get
"free" preventative maintenance for the dealer, much of the important
maintenance that really needs to be done has been dropped off the schedule.
Convincing the dealer that you REALLY DO want to change your transmission
fluid on a regular basis can be difficult.
There are some excellent dealers out there, and there are some terrible
ones, and if you live in a small town there may not actually be any.
Learn to do at least routine maintenance and don't trust someone else to do
it.
--scott

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adder1969 - 22 Oct 2007 14:30 GMT
> > A very big DITTO... you cannot depend on the Stealer to work on your car.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> they know the most about it and what it needs? I would think there
> would be enough dealers that you'd be able to find a competent one.-
You'd have thought so but I've been through about 4 so far.
Mark de Graaf - 02 Nov 2007 12:13 GMT
>> > A very big DITTO... you cannot depend on the Stealer to work on your
>> car.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> You'd have thought so but I've been through about 4 so far.
Couldn't agree more. Got a '93 325i so needs a little more care than
something new. Took my car to a quality independent, came out performing
shedloads better than when it went in i.e. putting my foot down in sport
mode now scares me... in a good way, plus mileage was improved by around
25%

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Pete - 16 Oct 2007 19:36 GMT
> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
As much danger as with any other used car. You have to realize things may
occasionally go bad and you will have to replace them. The only difference
is labor costs. Dealer aside, even a reputable indy shop will charge you
more for their time than for a comparable domestic (US). If you're a DIY
type of person, then this is a non-issue.
If you're worried, you can buy an extended warranty. But seeing how
expensive those warranties are and that when push comes to shove it turns
out that half the stuff isn't covered anyway, I ended up not getting one
myself. With that said, during my first 9 months of ownership (2002 e39), I
spent around $4k on it. However, a lot of it was preventative maintenance.
The extended warranty may have saved me $1k, but the price of warranty
itself would have been around $2k. I think replacement of the thrust arms
and bushings and final stage unit were the only things that really needed to
be taken care of. Other stuff like like faulty passenger occupancy sensor
or broken passenger seat controls (electrics) or even the dead pixels in the
MID could have waited. I am just very anal about little things.
Pete
rrupp@optonline.net - 20 Oct 2007 03:20 GMT
My first BMW was an E28 '88 M5 purchased new, sold 2 years ago w. 150k
miles, good residual value and still a great car.
I picked up a 'certified' E46 '03 325XI from a neighbor that I ran
through a local dealer to get an extended 'cerified' warrantee. It
cost around 1200 $ and has saved me around $3k with another 1 year
left on the warrantee.
Yes, dealer maintenance without the warantee can be expensive. There
are many competant, reputable local non-dealer shops around that
provide better maintenance and better value than the dealer. Do some
research and ask around.
I've been more than pleased with both of my cars
>> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
>> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Pete
bjn - 20 Oct 2007 13:12 GMT
>Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
>package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
>ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
My E46 is getting near four years old. The important parts of the car,
i.e., those that make it a fun car to drive, seem to be lasting fine.
What is starting to concern me about the car, though, are the little things
that go wrong.
- For example, the audio controls on the steering wheel are now
intermittent in their function, and lately have been not working about 90%
of the time.
- For example, when the sun beats down on the car, the foam sound
insulation used in the trunk makes the trunk and the rear seat of the car
smell like melting crayons. To the point where the rear seat passengers
have loudly complained.
It's the little things that are making me wonder if my next car will be
another BMW. So far as driving goes, it is a joy. The car goes where you
point it, and quickly. Brakes are awesome as well. But for the money
paid, I just expect better reliability.
It is not going to be an easy decision for me.
nopcbs - 21 Oct 2007 23:15 GMT
There are definitely parts that go bad on E46's that have nothing to do with
maintenance. Classic examples are the power window mechanisms and the
sun-roof and the rear strut mounts. A friend has a 2002 330ix and had three
window winder mechanisms go bad. And none were the driver window.
Other things, like the water pumps are under-designed and should be
considered junk at 60,000 miles.
If you buy one, get a subscription to Roundel, the BMW car club magazine.
There is excellent information in it on keeping your Bimmer running. They
are not apologists for BMW, as some owners are, and they tell you the bad
with the good.
Finally, you are only REALLY a BMW owner when you lose the parachute of the
warranty. That's when you find out how much you really love your car...after
it has presented you with big expenses a time or two.
- GRL
> Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
> package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
Karl Winkler - 22 Oct 2007 19:13 GMT
> Went for a ride in a BMW coupe the other day "E46" with sport
> package. Wow, what a car. 325 Ci.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> 2. Is there a danger in buying a used BMW which is "non-certified"?
> ie are there parts that go bad but are hard to spot for the layman?
I've owned BMWs, Saabs, Nissans and Chevys, and my wife has owned
Toyotas. I would say that the BMWs are about average for "things going
wrong" but I'll also say that different cars from the same
manufacturer can be wildly different in terms of maintenance. of
course the history of the vehicle will be a major factor - i.e. how it
was driven and maintained previously.
My first BMW was a '96 328i that I bought in 2004 with 80K miles on
it. I put 45K miles on it and replaced the oil filter housing, door
lock servo, brakes, control arm bushings along the way. Pretty minor
stuff, really. But before I bought the car, the previous owner had
already dealt with the water pump failing and taking out the radiator
with it. So when I got the car, that stuff was already fixed.
So, stuff does go wrong with these cars, but they are no worse that
most cars IMO. The worst one I've owned was a '99 Saab (had probably
been mistreated before we got it) and the '97 Pathfinder.
I've also had dealers maintain my cars (particularly the Saabs) and
it's a mixed bag. Some dealers are honest and yet of course they are
typically more expensive than indies. Others are unscrupulous and over
charge you for everything. Right now, I use an independent mechanic,
Wittler Auto, to do work on my BMWs. They are very reliable, honest
and fairly priced.
Karl Winkler
http://www.sandiastrings.com