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Car Forum / BMW Cars / November 2007Just rolled over 100K miles...my take on BMW
Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks great), I have to conclude the car has been.let's say, a bit of a POS....list of electrical ailments a mile long, total transmission failure at 86000 miles, and more electrical problems. By FAR, the most problematic pain in the a.s car I have ever owned. My advice to anybody cruising this group thinking about buying a BMW: don't. On 11/20/2007 7:53 AM, floresrikitic@hotmail.com went clickity clack on the keyboard and produced this interesting bit of text: > Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks > great), [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My advice to anybody cruising this group thinking about buying a > BMW: don't. Cars are made by people and people make mistakes. Every car company, without exception, has produced lemons. It happens. I've owned 2 BMWs, a Dodge, a couple of Oldsmobiles, a Buick, two Hondas and a Toyota. I've driven many more cars. Of those, I had more trouble with the Dodge, both Olds and the Buick. (The only time I was happy with the Buick was when I was rear ended. I couldn't even see any damage and the Honda that hit me didn't fare so well.) In any case, the best car I've ever had was the BMW I currently own, a 1994 530i. The only thing I don't like is the gas consumption. (I wish it had a smaller engine, but it was what I could get at the time.) I've had some problems, but no car is problem free. It handles better, it feels better and drives better than any other car I've had. In short, I do not regret buying it and it has over 150,000 miles on it. (I've put on about 45K on it.) I'll be happy to buy another BMW when this one is ready to go, but the way things look, I wouldn't be surprised if it went another 150K.  SignatureWelcome to America...now speak English >Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks >great), [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >My advice to anybody cruising this group thinking about buying a >BMW: don't. What is this car you're referring to? And what kind of transmission does it have? Aside from the fact that it's a BMW of some kind, we don't know anything about it. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >> Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks >> great), [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > anything about it. > --scott I must admit I expected a much longer post, with some supporting information and details about the model/year etc. Its a bit of knee jerk reaction. I think this is the way most mfr are going (not just cars), it is what people want (when they buy a car), just not really what they need. A good name for reliability only goes so far for sales and companies that put too much effort that way go to ground eventually. We have a 1997 323i (96K miles) and 1995 Volvo 940 SE Turbo estate (138K miles) between us. The BMW has several breakdowns and failures, including alarm system, some engine sensor, MOT failure on ball joint, no-compression start problem, ABS sensor failure. It is pretty rediculous to have these sort of problems in a car built in the 90s there is just no need and easy to avoid for the designer, unless they are experimenting with cost reductions. The Volvo on the other hand comes from a company who's reputation for reliability was well known, but it was about to go under because of it (at the time), galvanised body! metal ball joints! RWD!. They changed to the more popular light/cheap/FWD rubbish everyone else was making and the difference is clearly apparent to anyone buying older cars (compare a 95 940 with say a 98 850/V70), however it has allowed them to stay in business. In order to make a really good handling, nice looking, fast, long lasting car it costs alot more and takes longer to develope. Most people want the latest thing, trendy and are not prepared to pay enough to sustain a company providing a real quality product. Also of course most companies do their best to cover up reliability problems so buyer are not really informed. Finally I would say that in many areas a well designed long lasting car/transmission/ball joint etc cost pretty much the same as a bady designed one. Most of these problems are results of design experimentation and lack of testing. It is possible to have your cake and eat from a function/unit cost point of view it just takes more engineers time. The world is broken and it is isn't getting any better. -- Tony In article <3aa88c0e-eb15-4493-b58e-3b9b31b4b40d@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks > great), [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more electrical problems. By FAR, the most problematic pain in > the a.s car I have ever owned. > My advice to anybody cruising this group thinking about buying a > BMW: don't. Signed A Cadillac Salesperson. Signature*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of sh.t. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > In article > <3aa88c0e-eb15-4493-b58e-3b9b31b4b...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Signed > A Cadillac Salesperson. How's that? A Cadillac? LOL! Wouldn't have one! > total transmission failure at 86000 miles, How often was the oil changed in that tranny? Or is it one of those "lifetime" fills, in which case the lifetime for this tranny was 86k miles. :) Jokes aside, I do agree that while not complete show stoppers, some of the electrical gremlins on these cars can be irritating and costly to fix if you're like me and can't stand if something is not working as it should, no matter how benign. And I'm at only 40k miles right now. Pete > <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "lifetime" fills, in which case the lifetime for this tranny was 86k miles. > :) The auto trannies they put in these cars are proven pieces of crap. By far, this was my biggest expense. Take a gander at the countless case stories at this link. My experience was VERY similar. And BMW has behaved shamefully. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/bmw_trans.html > Jokes aside, I do agree that while not complete show stoppers, some of the > electrical gremlins on these cars can be irritating and costly to fix if > you're like me and can't stand if something is not working as it should, no > matter how benign. And I'm at only 40k miles right now. I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) > I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) That's for sure. In the last year alone (12k miles) my 530i has cost me $4k in maintenance and repairs. Then again, I never expected this car to be ultra reliable and completely trouble-free. If I wanted something dependable and boring, I would have bought a Toyota. Although judging by the latest rankings, even Toyota's quality is slipping nowadays... Pete 12K? Doesn't the warranty cover stuff? Or do you mean you drove it 12K last year? >> I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Pete > 12K? Doesn't the warranty cover stuff? Or do you mean you drove it 12K > last year? I drove 12k miles last year. The car has 42k miles right now. The car is not under warranty as it is 5 years old. Pete >The auto trannies they put in these cars are proven pieces of crap. >By far, this was my biggest expense. Which cars, what transmission? I mean, personally I would suggest that ALL automatic transmisisons are pieces of crap, but that's another story altogether. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > > <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) Wow, that's horrible. Did they CHANGE their transmissions after the 2000, 2001 years? IE I"m thinking of buying a 2004 325i...would that be a mistake? OR did they get the message and improve the transmission. I couldn't tolerate huge expenses...I drive a Corolla with 180K miles on it (12 years old) and have NEVER done anything to it other than change fluids, etc. unless you have a unquenchable desire to "drive" - to "feel" the road... pass If you just want a car to drive around for 180k, don't buy a bimmer. You have to WANT it and appreciate the driving experience SOME of the BMW collection (most) gives a driver. Many people don't "get it"... for them, there is no point spending the money on a BMW then whine every time something is not perfect. Unfortunately, BMWs do have some issues... I have had 4, all had their own issues, but the good FAR outweighed the bad, even my 20 year old 325e and my 22 year old 535im were INCREDIBLE to drive, but a few things didn't work properly anymore... Still, both were safer, more enjoyable and more fun to drive than any alternative. >> > <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > on it (12 years old) and have NEVER done anything to it other than > change fluids, etc. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > unless you have a unquenchable desire to "drive" - to "feel" the road... > pass [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I love driving, driving fast, etc. But under 100K for a transmission? That's not a minor repair. Maybe I'll buy an Acura TL or something. I wanted rear wheel drive though. I'm hoping they chnaged their transmissions by 2004. This guy is a troll... he never tells us what car/tranny/specific issues he has. Every american car I have had has been a TOTAL piece of sh.t, from the interior to the rust filled body and pathetic engines that guzzle. The honda I had was excellent, even when neglected and driven like hell, lasted a LONG time. No one said BMW made "perfect" cars - but the "enjoyment" outweighs the hassles - IF you are a "driver" Clearly, you are not a driver, and should hurry and buy a new car that will fulfill you - something with no "driving pleasure" should suit you fine... check out the wonderful collection of USA machines... THOSE should please someone like you. >> <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > This guy is a troll... he never tells us what car/tranny/specific issues he > has. sh.t clown, read the link I provided. Here it is again. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/bmw_trans.html There are many dozens of cases there for your reading pleasure; differerent models and years. My car is a '98 3 series, okay, satisfied? Now tell me what damn difference does it make? BMW put a crappy GM transmission in the car that failed at 86k miles, as has happened to probably thousands of their customers. > Every american car I have had has been a TOTAL piece of sh.t, from the > interior to the rust filled body and pathetic engines that guzzle. Who mentioned American made cars? > The honda I had was excellent, even when neglected and driven like hell, > lasted a LONG time. > No one said BMW made "perfect" cars - but the "enjoyment" outweighs the > hassles - Nobody said anything about anybody having to make "perfect" cars. You like to make stuff up, goober. I doubt you've ever bought a new BMW in your life, or ever will, but if you're ever able, be my guest. > IF you are a "driver" > Clearly, you are not a driver, and should hurry and buy a new car that will > fulfill you - something with no "driving pleasure" should suit you fine... > check out the wonderful collection of USA machines... THOSE should please > someone like you. There you go again blowing sh.t out your a.s. Come back down sonny. My post is only about BMW and their shitty cars. They can't even perfect electric windows. Mine have failed several times, as have many of Beamer owners'. Now please go off on a tanget about Beamer instead of Bimmer. And have fun in your $3,000 Bummer. >My car is a '98 3 series, okay, satisfied? Now tell me what damn >difference does it make? BMW put a crappy GM transmission >in the car that failed at 86k miles, as has happened to probably >thousands of their customers. Okay. NOW we are getting somewhere. So what you are saying is something like "Don't buy a '98 3-series with an automatic." And that's a statement I'd certainly agree with. That's a very different statement than saying all BMWs are unreliable. >Nobody said anything about anybody having to make "perfect" cars. >You like to make stuff up, goober. I doubt you've ever bought >a new BMW in your life, or ever will, but if you're ever able, >be my guest. I've never bought a new BMW either... I wait for them to get old enough that all of the major problems have become known. Currently I have one with 350,000 miles on it, and my record was 480,000 on an original engine. >There you go again blowing sh.t out your a.s. Come back down sonny. >My post is only about BMW and their shitty cars. They can't even >perfect electric windows. Mine have failed several times, as have >many of Beamer owners'. Now please go off on a tanget about Beamer >instead of Bimmer. And have fun in your $3,000 Bummer. No, your post is about BMW and YOUR shitty car. Don't judge all vehicles based on one. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd certainly agree with. That's a very different statement than saying > all BMWs are unreliable. Did you bother to read the site I linked to? I never said ALL BMWs are unreliable; there are some exceptions I guess. But I'd guess some Ford Pintos made it to 150k miles without blowing up or falling apart. > >Nobody said anything about anybody having to make "perfect" cars. > >You like to make stuff up, goober. I doubt you've ever bought [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that all of the major problems have become known. Currently I have one > with 350,000 miles on it, and my record was 480,000 on an original engine. For guys like you (and this NG always seems to have a lot of you) who buy elderly Bummers for next to nothing, relatively speaking, I can see why you can't relate to those of us who payed much bigger bucks for newer models. Hell, I've had no problems whatever with the *engine* of my car, but there's a bit more to a car than an engine. > >There you go again blowing sh.t out your a.s. Come back down sonny. > >My post is only about BMW and their shitty cars. They can't even [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No, your post is about BMW and YOUR shitty car. Don't judge all vehicles > based on one. Once more, read the link I've provided at least twice. BMW produces over- priced crap and a person would be a fool to buy one, especially new. BMW also produces crappy parts/components. My car has had more than one electrical component fail twice, which has nothing to do with my car per se, but with their short-lived, sub-par components. Failures are common. Don't know many owners of fairly late model cars? But for guys who plop down 2 or 3 grand for a beat up old model, go for it. You don't have much to lose. In article <cd061c2a-dd91-4a7d-8c4c-0a9de6cb560b@41g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > BMW also produces crappy parts/components. My car has had > more than one electrical component fail twice, which has nothing to > do with my car per se, but with their short-lived, sub-par components. BMW don't make the electrics. Signature*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >Did you bother to read the site I linked to? I never said ALL BMWs >are >unreliable; there are some exceptions I guess. But I'd guess some >Ford Pintos made it to 150k miles without blowing up or falling apart. No, I didn't read the site. I don't have web access here, only Usenet and email. But what you posted sure sounded like a blanket condemnation of BMW products. >> I've never bought a new BMW either... I wait for them to get old enough >> that all of the major problems have become known. Currently I have one [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >*engine* >of my car, but there's a bit more to a car than an engine. When I bought them, they weren't elderly and they weren't selling for next to nothing. But they are now, and they just keep running, and that's a good thing. I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. So I kept driving the old ones. I am hoping for a stripped down Series 1 in the US, maybe? I don't want all that electronics junk. It breaks. You're upset that it breaks. Well, I could have told you that it would break before you bought it. You get a complex system, then you try and build it for a price the consumer can buy, and it's going to take some time to get it right. Hell, it took GM thirty years to get the torque converter right. >Once more, read the link I've provided at least twice. BMW produces >over- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Failures are common. Don't know many owners of fairly late model >cars? This is the case with ALL cars. All car manufacturers do extreme cost engineering, because the customer demands the cheapest product possible. And they all throw on all the latest gewgaws because the customer demands it. And now we are in the middle of the whole RoHS debacle which is going to be causing increasing electronics reliability problems. If you think the old L-Jetronic was plagued by cold solder joints, just WAIT a couple years and see what the lead-free stuff is going to be like. Don't blame BMW for that. Well, okay, blame BMW for it, but you have to blame every other manufacturer too. >But for guys who plop down 2 or 3 grand for a beat up old model, go >for it. You don't have much to lose. I strongly recommend it, yes. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically > could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. So I kept > driving the old ones. I am hoping for a stripped down Series 1 in the > US, maybe? I don't want all that electronics junk. It breaks. So do electrics. But it's simply not possible to get a modern car to conform to emissions regs without the use of electronics. Signature*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically >> could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. So I kept [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >So do electrics. But it's simply not possible to get a modern car to >conform to emissions regs without the use of electronics. Absolutely. The ECU is a big deal, and makes a huge improvement both in emissions and efficiency. But there is NO reason to have a microprocessor to control the interior lights. There is no reason for a data buss carrying signals from module to module around the chassis. Don't even get me talking about iDrive. Stuff breaks. I want a car with less stuff. Why can't I order a Series 1 with no air conditioning, crank-up windows and manual seat controls, and a manual transmission? --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>> I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically >>> could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. >Stuff breaks. I want a car with less stuff. Why can't I order a Series >1 with no air conditioning, crank-up windows and manual seat controls, >and a manual transmission? Because you're a fossil who doesn't understand economics? That would be my guess. SignatureDan. >>>> I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically >>>> could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Because you're a fossil who doesn't understand economics? No, I'm a fossil who does understand economics, and who knows that the long-term cost of ownership is very different than the up-front cost of a vehicle. >That would be my guess. Hey, you're the one who isn't happy with your car. I'm still delighted with mine. My only worry is that eventually I'll come to the end of that bathtub curve. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>>>> I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically >>>>> could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >long-term cost of ownership is very different than the up-front cost of >a vehicle. I was talking about the economics from the manufacturer's point of view, not yours. That's all that is significant in this debate. *Your* economics dictate that you *have to* choose to buy from what is offered by the makers. You make *your* choice based on that, and you can make some good choices if you're smart. The maker chooses what to offer for sale in different places at a profit to him. It's basic economics. Didn't you do math (much less economics) in school? Damn, I wouldn't like to have you running *my* business... SignatureDan. > No, I'm a fossil who does understand economics, and who knows that the > long-term cost of ownership is very different than the up-front cost of > a vehicle. Thing is that very very few buy a new car and keep it long term. Three years is about the norm. And few also buy poorly specced cars in the UK apart from some fleet users. These are somewhat of bargains secondhand as most secondhand buyers want the toys. Lots on here seem to ask about oil change intervals etc on their *new* car saying they intend keeping it forever - but do they actually? Signature*Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > Why can't I order a Series > 1 with no air conditioning, crank-up windows and manual seat controls, > and a manual transmission? In Europe you can have a 1-series without A/C. Over there, pretty much everything is an extra-paid option for which BMW will nickle-and-dime you to death. Out here in the US though, BMW's strategy is to project a luxury car image with further emphasis on sport/performance. How would a car with no A/C and with crank-up windows fit into this luxury image? I understand there may be people like you, who want just the performance aspects and none of the luxury aspects, but unfortunately you're in such a minority, that it doesn't make any financial sense for BMW NA to offer such a thing. You can't please everyone. Pete >> Why can't I order a Series >> 1 with no air conditioning, crank-up windows and manual seat controls, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >everything is an extra-paid option for which BMW will nickle-and-dime you to >death. Yes, the car I want is available in Europe. They even have a real gauge package available, as I recall. It is not imported into the US. It will never be imported into the US. That is the crying shame. >Out here in the US though, BMW's strategy is to project a luxury car image >with further emphasis on sport/performance. How would a car with no A/C and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >make any financial sense for BMW NA to offer such a thing. You can't please >everyone. That's why special orders are available, isn't it? --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > That's why special orders are available, isn't it? Not if the marketing department thinks it would dillute the brand image. Besides, they don't really care for a customer who will purchase a stripped down version. They make their money on all the extras, so they want you to buy the car fully loaded, and that is why even the basic BMW versions in the US come pretty close to fully loaded by European standards. Pete > >> I actually tried to buy a brand new BMW two years ago, but basically > >> could not get one with all the electronics crap removed. So I kept [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >So do electrics. But it's simply not possible to get a modern car to > >conform to emissions regs without the use of electronics. > Absolutely. The ECU is a big deal, and makes a huge improvement both in > emissions and efficiency. > But there is NO reason to have a microprocessor to control the interior > lights. There is no reason for a data buss carrying signals from module > to module around the chassis. Cheaper and saves weight? > Don't even get me talking about iDrive. It's not very intuitive, certainly. > Stuff breaks. I want a car with less stuff. Why can't I order a Series > 1 with no air conditioning, crank-up windows and manual seat controls, > and a manual transmission? In the UK you can buy one without AC, electric seats and with manual transmission. IIRC. Signature*Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?" Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >My car is a '98 3 series, okay, satisfied? Now tell me what damn >> >difference does it make? BMW put a crappy GM transmission >> >in the car that failed at 86k miles, as has happened to probably >> >thousands of their customers. Welocome to my kill filter you pompous assbag douchenozzle. This newsgroup is filled with people that like thier cars and we really don't appreciate someone just popping in and starting sh.t. You are an excellent specimen of a troll and may now go away quietly (please). > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:32:15 -0800 (PST), floresriki...@hotmail.com > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Welocome to my kill filter you pompous assbag douchenozzle. And speaking of nozzles...I recently bought some windshield spray nozzles for my Bummer...you guessed it, they had crapped out. I paid something like 2 or 3 bucks for the things online. The local Bummer shops and stealerships wanted something like $32 for the same crappy parts. > This > newsgroup is filled with people that like thier cars and we really > don't appreciate someone just popping in and starting sh.t. You are an > excellent specimen of a troll and may now go away quietly (please). My suggestion would be to concentrate only on pushing those overpriced parts at that local Bummer parts counter you work, genius. >My suggestion would be to concentrate only on pushing those >overpriced parts at that local Bummer parts counter you work, >genius. Too bad. The tranny issue could actually be kind of interesting to discuss. To bad you've proven yourself to be just a troll. Plonk! > floresriki...@hotmail.com wrote: > >My suggestion would be to concentrate only on pushing those [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Too bad. The tranny issue could actually be kind of interesting to > discuss. What's to discuss? BMW fitted their cars with cheap POS transmissions to make more money. >> floresriki...@hotmail.com wrote: >> >My suggestion would be to concentrate only on pushing those [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >What's to discuss? BMW fitted their cars with cheap POS >transmissions to make more money. Sure, but what can be done about it? Can the 5-speed be retrofitted into the American models? And what is it about the GM model that fails? --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >> floresriki...@hotmail.com wrote: > >> >My suggestion would be to concentrate only on pushing those [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >What's to discuss? BMW fitted their cars with cheap POS > >transmissions to make more money. > Sure, but what can be done about it? Can the 5-speed be retrofitted > into the American models? And what is it about the GM model that fails? > --scott European 6 cylinder cars had the ZF 5HP18 or 20 depending on age. And of course it could be retro fitted - at a cost. ZF had a poor reputation with the 4HP22 in the US - emission testing where the car is revved in neutral caused it to fail, until a mod was made. Perhaps this is why BMW fitted GM in the US. GM at one time had the reputation of making the best autos. The 5HP18 appears to be quite a reliable transmission - one came up on Ebay and I bought it for 75 GBP - so unless I was lucky they can't be in much demand. My intention is to fit it to my 'other' car - using a Powertrain Control Solutions ECU - to replace the GM TH180. ;-) Big snag is the bellhousing is integral so I'll need to make an adaptor plate. Signature*Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> floresriki...@hotmail.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Sure, but what can be done about it? Can the 5-speed be retrofitted > into the American models? I don't know if it could or not, but it doesn't appear that we/those who had the failure have much choice. I checked with several shops and a dealership and they all gave me the same deal, if you can call it that. > And what is it about the GM model that fails? Obviously poor design, or cheap parts, or a combination of both. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that BMW got them cheap, but they obviously didn't pass along the savings to the customer. My guess is that they felt they could get away with this bit of sleaziness in American models due to the time the average American owner would keep the car after buying new. These sorry transmissions usually lasted past 70k miles or so. That's over 4 years' use even for a fairly high mileage owner. BMW knew that when they started failing, they could always claim it was because of abusive driving, climate, etc., (the usual excuses they ended up using when the huge number started failing) I mean, how could a particular owner who bought used know that the previous owner didn't abuse it, or drive it in an extreme climate? I think the thing they didn't count on was just how many would fail. In article <b21ceaa2-db40-49ac-97af-a4afb8cff804@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, > > And what is it about the GM model that fails? > Obviously poor design, or cheap parts, or a combination > of both. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that > BMW got them cheap, but they obviously didn't pass along > the savings to the customer. > My guess is that they felt they could get away with this bit > of sleaziness in American models due to the time the average [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > it in an extreme climate? I think the thing they didn't count > on was just how many would fail. None of that makes the slightest sense. BMW fit ZF autos in countries where their cars are more 'ordinary' than in the US - like Germany and the UK. US spec cars are always fully loaded unlike the basic models available elsewhere - with ZF autos. There would also have been a considerable cost to re-engineer for a different make of box. My guess it was done to placate some pressure group by using local content. In the same way as they now manufacture some models in the US. Which can't make much economic sense. Signature*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >Can the 5-speed be retrofitted >into the American models? The GM tranny under discussion is a 5-speed. > >Can the 5-speed be retrofitted > >into the American models? > The GM tranny under discussion is a 5-speed. Don't think the GM 5L40-E was fitted to any BMW. It was the 4L30 they used. Signature*Black holes are where God divided by zero * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >Can the 5-speed be retrofitted >> >into the American models? > >> The GM tranny under discussion is a 5-speed. > >Don't think the GM 5L40-E was fitted to any BMW. It was the 4L30 they used. I believe that you are mistaken. I know for a fact that my 2000 323i has a 5-speed auto. (It's not "steptronic".) I also am certain that I saw, years ago, the GM Powertrain Web site that claimed that their 5-speed was used in BMW's. > >> >Can the 5-speed be retrofitted > >> >into the American models? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Don't think the GM 5L40-E was fitted to any BMW. It was the 4L30 they > >used. > I believe that you are mistaken. I know for a fact that my 2000 323i > has a 5-speed auto. (It's not "steptronic".) I also am certain that > I saw, years ago, the GM Powertrain Web site that claimed that their > 5-speed was used in BMW's. I can't be certain of course but if you download the ZF North American list from this page it seems to say different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_5HP19_transmission I did find an article from GM claiming their 5 speeds would be used in the future - but that's all. This list seems to show it not being fitted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_5L40-E_transmission Signature*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?" Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>>Don't think the GM 5L40-E was fitted to any BMW. It was the 4L30 they >>>used. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_5L40-E_transmission Looks like wikipedia is wrong. Check this: http://www.noreverse.org/docs/SB247500.pdf But it's *still* not at all clear, to me, whether it's the GM or the ZF that supposedly is "bad". Note the photo on the home page, obviously showing a steptronic shifter: http://www.noreverse.org/ Again, mine is *not* a steptronic, but it *is* a 5-speed. The date of manufacture is 8/99, meaning it must have the GM 5L40-E. I think that one theory of mine is correct - the GM 5L40-E was non-step, and steptronic was introduced with the ZF. Now, why would "noreverse.org" put a picture of the steptronic shifter on it's home page, if it was the older, "non step" trannies that were bad? > Looks like wikipedia is wrong. Check this: > http://www.noreverse.org/docs/SB247500.pdf Right. Confusion reigns . ;-) > But it's *still* not at all clear, to me, whether it's the GM or the > ZF that supposedly is "bad". > Note the photo on the home page, obviously showing a steptronic > shifter: > http://www.noreverse.org/ > Again, mine is *not* a steptronic, but it *is* a 5-speed. The date of > manufacture is 8/99, meaning it must have the GM 5L40-E. I think that > one theory of mine is correct - the GM 5L40-E was non-step, and > steptronic was introduced with the ZF. > Now, why would "noreverse.org" put a picture of the steptronic shifter > on it's home page, if it was the older, "non step" trannies that were > bad? I dunno. I've not heard of there being a problem with ZF Steptronic 5HP18 or 19 as regards losing reverse. Nor is there IIRC any difference in the actual transmission between Steptronic and ordinary which might effect this failure. In the UK Steptronic was an option on the ZF for several years. As I said earlier, Ebay is quite a good indicator of the desirability of such units secondhand - the Steptronic has been around for 10 years or so, so plenty would be going down that route for spares if it was a common failure. Signature*Fax is stronger than fiction * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >And speaking of nozzles...I recently bought some windshield spray >nozzles for my Bummer...you guessed it, they had crapped out. >I paid something like 2 or 3 bucks for the things online. The >local Bummer shops and stealerships wanted something like >$32 for the same crappy parts. What does "crapped out" mean? Could they not be reamed out with a serrated wire? --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What does "crapped out" mean? Could they not be reamed out with a > serrated wire? Tried that, didn't work. They were pieces of crap just like so much else installed on the Bummer at the factory. I've never had a spray nozzle fail on any other car I ever owned. >> <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >else installed on the Bummer at the factory. I've never had a spray >nozzle fail on any other car I ever owned. Probably because you didn't know what they were for then. BTW I used to clear mine with a welding nozzle jet cleaner - eg serrated stiff wire. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK > This guy is a troll... he never tells us what car/tranny/specific > issues he has. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > suit you fine... check out the wonderful collection of USA > machines... THOSE should please someone like you. Actually, there are a several USA models that are pretty good cars. Reliability is up and build quality is up as well. Bottom line: If you want to drive a car that will ruin your driving experience for almost any other car in existence, then you want to drive a BMW. If you have the ability to pay for the privilidge then you will not be dissapointed. If you can't afford the costs then you shouldn't buy the car. >>> <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) > Actually, there are a several USA models that are pretty good cars. > Reliability is up and build quality is up as well. The new Pontiac G8 with a V8 and a manual tranny should be interesting. It's basically the Holden Commodore that they'll be importing from Australia. But if someone has been convinced by BMW's marketing to own an "ultimate driving machine", they will probably not even look at a GM product, regardless how good it is or how much less it costs. I personally do not think BMWs are worth their money. Sure, they're nice cars, but other companies also make nice cars... for less. Pete > Bottom line: If you want to drive a car that will ruin your driving > experience for almost any other car in existence, then you want to drive a > BMW. Very tiresome rhetoric. >If you have the ability to pay for the privilidge then you will not be > dissapointed. If you can't afford the costs then you shouldn't buy the car. More cliches. First of all, most any dip with even marginal credit can get a car loan and buy a bummer, many do, so what's with this "ability" business? Your second statement is the real hoot though. I've heard it a lot. "Costs" of an above average-priced car of acceptable quality should not include having to replace window motors, switches, guides, fan blower motors, resistors, capacitors, cat converters, TRANSMISSIONS, instrument clusters (twice, and third one still acts up occasionally), secondary air flow motors, thermostats, having a fault show up that can't be found, etc., etc., etc.--even the sun visor now fails to click into place----all in the first 86000 miles after being well maintained and not driven in an abusive manner. Oh yeah, add alternator replacement and burned out entertainment system display to the list... >> Bottom line: If you want to drive a car that will ruin your driving >> experience for almost any other car in existence, then you want to drive a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >add alternator replacement and burned out entertainment >system display to the list... Of course the average priced car does not have these toys fitted. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK On Nov 23, 11:27 am, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote: > >> Bottom line: If you want to drive a car that will ruin your driving > >> experience for almost any other car in existence, then you want to drive a [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Of course the average priced car does not have these toys fitted. Toys? Vitually everything I listed is standard in virtually all newer cars sold in America...maybe that's not the case in podunk England. If you're dazzled by 'entertainment display,' what I mean is the basic LED. In article <a1a76f73-004d-4717-b6cc-0ab9544920ce@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > More cliches. First of all, most any dip with even marginal credit > can get a car loan and buy a bummer, many do, so what's with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > add alternator replacement and burned out entertainment > system display to the list... I'd have ditched any car that gave that much trouble long before 86000 miles regardless of cost. I take it you're a masochist? Signature*A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. On Nov 23, 1:39 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article > <a1a76f73-004d-4717-b6cc-0ab954492...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'd have ditched any car that gave that much trouble long before 86000 > miles regardless of cost. I take it you're a masochist? No, I just keep cars a long time generally. I'll admit that some of this work was done on the BMW dime (still under warranty), but a hell of a lot of it wasn't, not the least of which was the tranny failure at 86K. I also do most of the service work and have learned to deal with some of the electronics when they fail, without having to go to a shop. I keep thinking all the bugs are finally out of the car, then it comes up with a new one for me. >On Nov 23, 1:39 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >all the bugs are finally out of the car, then it comes up >with a new one for me. Why don't you just scrap it, and buy yourself a car you like ? That's more useful then to keep ranting about your problems here. Obviously you got yourself a lemon. Now either learn how to make lemonade, or if you don't like lemonade, get rid of the darn thing. >Why don't you just scrap it, and buy yourself a car you like ? That's >more useful then to keep ranting about your problems here. Obviously >you got yourself a lemon. Now either learn how to make lemonade, or if >you don't like lemonade, get rid of the darn thing. My! Foreskincritic has *certainly* been one of the more successful trolls of late! SignatureDan. >>Why don't you just scrap it, and buy yourself a car you like ? That's >>more useful then to keep ranting about your problems here. Obviously [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >My! Foreskincritic has *certainly* been one of the more successful >trolls of late! He's still at it isn't he. I'm sure he tried to trash me as well but I added him to my kill filter and life is good... Like the play on his name... > On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:53:49 -0500, Dean Dark > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I added him to my kill filter and life is good... Like the play on his > name... That 'play on his name' is rather old hat. I see it a lot from closet queers--and plain regular ones-- whose brains think 'foreskin' every time their eyes see 'flores.' I seem to upset homosexuals a lot.:) On Nov 23, 2:34 pm, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote: > On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:00:53 -0800 (PST), floresriki...@hotmail.com > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Why don't you just scrap it, and buy yourself a car you like ? That's > more useful then to keep ranting about your problems here. I feel I'm possibly preventing others strolling by from buying from the same untrustworthy automakers. Forget all the electrical problems that BMWs have, how could they explain their way out of putting those crappy GM transmissions in their "ultimate driving machine" bummers? I had one clown mechanic at a local BMW shop tell me over the phone that BMW did not put GM trannies in their cars. I just chuckled. Hell, I can see why they'd be ashamed of it, but to flat out lie like that.... >Obviously > you got yourself a lemon. No more a lemon, it appears, than thousands of other BMW customers. >Now either learn how to make lemonade, sh.t, I'm trying. Right now, the thing only has the burned out LED and a fault they can't find the cause of, but the blowers work, the tranny shifts, and I can get my driver side window up straight (usually without much trouble). Hells bells, I'm doing great! >> Why don't you just scrap it, and buy yourself a car you like ? That's >> more useful then to keep ranting about your problems here. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >No more a lemon, it appears, than thousands of other BMW customers. I don't know about "thousands of other BMW customers", but I have two bimmers (a 2002 325xi E-46, and a 2007 328xiT E-91). Other then one issue with the throthle on my 325xi, which was fixed under warranty, I never had any problems. I did buy them new. I don't trust buying second hand cars. It feels like buying somebody else's problems. maybe that's exactly what happened to you. >>Now either learn how to make lemonade, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >up straight (usually without much trouble). Hells bells, I'm >doing great! I got my wife the 328xiT so we could chuck her Jeep Grand Cherokee (2000 model year) which started to have so much "issues" with electronics and the quadra drive and other transmission problems it would make your head spin. The only good experiences I had with US made cars is with my chevies. I turned over my '95 chevy lumina to our son 5 years ago. It's 12 years old now and apart from the expected little specks of rust ( we live in Minnesota) it's been a very reliable car. Only had to replace the battery once, and of course the typical maintenance (oil, lube etc...) In article <151ed3e4-db67-4f8b-9929-5d39c2d47ce6@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > Why don't you just scrap it, and buy yourself a car you like ? That's > > more useful then to keep ranting about your problems here. > I feel I'm possibly preventing others strolling by from buying > from the same untrustworthy automakers. You don't seem to have much support here from others who find their BMW very unreliable - and there will be thousands that read this group. > Forget all the > electrical problems that BMWs have, how could they > explain their way out of putting those crappy GM transmissions > in their "ultimate driving machine" bummers? I had one clown mechanic > at a local BMW shop tell me over the phone that BMW did > not put GM trannies in their cars. Well not all models are fitted with GM transmissions. Nor is the 4L60 unique to BMW - lots of other models fit it. Here's a list:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4L30-E_transmission Signature*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. On Nov 23, 6:45 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article > <151ed3e4-db67-4f8b-9929-5d39c2d47...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You don't seem to have much support here from others who find their BMW > very unreliable What people like you fail to understand is that I do not seek support. I'm just conveying my thoughts through my fingers. I refuse to do business with people who have proven to be sleazy. If others choose to live by different principles, fine with me. I consider my posting a community service, if you will... >- and there will be thousands that read this group. Hmmm, I doubt it. IMO, USENET is dying a slow death. This group here is not what it once was. > > Forget all the > > electrical problems that BMWs have, how could they [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Well not all models are fitted with GM transmissions. But MINE was, and he knew what model I had, and that it had the GM, but hilariously tried to deny it. The shop I ended up using were much more on- the- level with the situation. I don't do business with liars if I can help it. It sounds to me like the dealer had a "lemon" on the lot, you came in and bitched and moaned and annoyed everyone during the sales procedure, so they gave you the lemon. Go to the BMW forums and cry there, e46fanatics.com is especially good for your model. Cry over there and leave us alone, you will NOT sway anyone on this NG from buying a BMW... you are proving yourself a lunatic troll. >> Bottom line: If you want to drive a car that will ruin your driving >> experience for almost any other car in existence, then you want to drive [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > add alternator replacement and burned out entertainment > system display to the list... SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > It sounds to me like the dealer had a "lemon" on the lot, you came in and > bitched and moaned and annoyed everyone during the sales procedure, so they > gave you the lemon. Glad I dropped in. What the hell more idiotic babbling is this? For fun, tell me just how a dealer would know that a new car on their lot was a lemon? Would it involve a crystal ball or something? BTW, you have the reading comprehension of a gnat. > Go to the BMW forums and cry there, e46fanatics.com is especially good for > your model. > Cry over there and leave us alone, you will NOT sway anyone on this NG from > buying a BMW... Maybe not you weenies who buy the $2,500 junkers. >you are proving yourself a lunatic troll. Only a lunatic would buy a BMW just on the transmission issue alone. >> <floresriki...@hotmail.com> wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >I'd say you've got a f-u-n future.:) Unless you have a unquenchable desire to "drive" - to "feel" the road... pass If you just want a car to drive around for 180k, don't buy a bimmer. You have to WANT it and appreciate the driving experience SOME of the BMW collection (most) gives a driver. Many people don't "get it"... for them, there is no point spending the money on a BMW then whine every time something is not perfect. Unfortunately, BMW's do have some issues... I have had 4, all had their own issues, but the good FAR outweighed the bad, even my 20 year old 325e and my 22 year old 535im were INCREDIBLE to drive, but a few things didn't work properly anymore... Still, both were safer, more enjoyable and more fun to drive than any alternative. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:38:07 -0800 (PST), floresriki...@hotmail.com > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > things didn't work properly anymore... Still, both were safer, more > enjoyable and more fun to drive than any alternative. Oh gee, another one. Are you Bubbles's boy/girlfriend? BTW, this BMW crap about "ultimate driving machine" is bullshit that only people like you swallow. >The auto trannies they put in these cars are proven pieces of crap. >By far, this was my biggest expense. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/bmw_trans.html Jeez. As an owner of a 2000 323i, that is pretty scary. I was planning on keeping this car a few more years, but this makes me wonder... > floresriki...@hotmail.com wrote: > >The auto trannies they put in these cars are proven pieces of crap. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > planning on keeping this car a few more years, but this makes me > wonder... My very strong advice: sell it now. I'm keeping mine till the two year warranty runs out on the replaced tranny. How many red flags do you need? > Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks > great), [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My advice to anybody cruising this group thinking about buying a > BMW: don't. Sorry that's been your experience. My 2001(purchased 7/2000) e46 330Ci just rolled the 100K mark. I did 37K of that 4 years ago in one year. Problems? Drove the car some 3000 miles moving from the east coast to the west. I think I averaged 33 mpg on the highway. No need for a hybrid. Problems? 1. Faulty Tail light. 2. Replaced slightly leaky water pump. Both were within the 50k/4 year service period so no cost whatsoever. Signaturethepixelfreak >> Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks >> great), [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the west. I think I averaged 33 mpg on the highway. No need for a > hybrid. And for those wondering, it's a 5 speed manual transmission. Who the f.ck drives an automatic anyway. Automatic drivers aren't drivers, they're passengers. Signaturethepixelfreak The tail light issue is actually very common... I have replaced one, but see MANY other posts about error messages/defective bulb/taillights. I had to take apart the driver window switch and clean the contact for it to work one day... (5 minutes) My good FAR outweighs the bad >> Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks >> great), [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Both were within the 50k/4 year service period so no cost whatsoever. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >Even though well maintained and only driven by me (and still looks >great), I have to conclude the car has been.let's say, a bit of a POS....list [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >My advice to anybody cruising this group thinking about buying a >BMW: don't. Like Einstein said, stuff is relative. Mine have been trouble-free. epbrown -- How can you know where I'm at if you haven't been where I been? Can you see where I'm coming from? "How I Could Just Kill A Man" Cypress Hill
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