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Car Forum / BMW Cars / March 2008BMW
Any experience with the 2008 530i twin turbo in-line six? <bon-15@hotmail.com> wrote > Any experience with the 2008 530i twin turbo in-line six? That would be a 535i. Pete >> Any experience with the 2008 530i twin turbo in-line six? > > That would be a 535i. > > Pete Or 535d What would you like to know? I have a 2008 535xi ....and a fair amount of experience. > Any experience with the 2008 530i twin turbo in-line six? > > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- How do you like it? How is the acceleration/ handling? Any turbo-lag? How bad/good is the iDrive? I have a 2003 530i 5 speed and I am considering an upgrade to the 2008 535i or perhaps the 550i. Thanks in advance for any insights. >How do you like it? How is the acceleration/ handling? Any turbo-lag? How >bad/good is the iDrive? I have a 2003 530i 5 speed and I am considering an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** >---------------------------------------------------------- The engine is great with no lag however the same engine and Trans in the 730d (single turbo) feels exactly the same (I have the 730d and drive the 535d often) but the 535 has about another 35HP over the 730d. The iDrive takes some getting used to as do other things but the computer system will remember how you drive the car and will eventually it will feel sluggish (auto) if you regularly drive slow around town like starting off in 2nd and a "hole" when trying to pull away smartly. Either get your dealer to reset the ecu or email me and I'll tell you how to do it. If enough people want to know I'll post it here but it's only useful for 2001 >> 5, 6 & 7 series.  SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK hsg wrote: > The engine is great with no lag Yes lag. It's not bad, but it's there. Might be less noticeable with an auto. > How do you like it? I Love it...it is the best car i have driven so far....and i have had zero problems so far. *knock on wood*. Even in cold winters (of -30 F), it has always started up and accelerated very well the first time. How is the acceleration/ handling? Acceleration much more than i have ever needed. It is very fast though i have really floored it only a couple of times. I have a manual transmission and i am not very sure as to how the auto transmission is, but it should not be that different. All BMWs that i have had have always handled very well. I ran with all season tires in Minnesota snow all winter, and it never slipped (of course, i drive safe). The manual transmission has a little bit to do with it, but it handles well for "big" car (compared to 3-series). Any turbo-lag? No noticeable lags at all......couple of times when accelerating in the ramps, i *think* i might have sensed a lag, but no more than half a second. Unless you drag race, it should not be a problem. How bad/good is the iDrive? I like the iDrive quite well...IMO, there probably is NO easier way to put all that options in a better arrangement to be controlled by a single button/dial. I like the single controller as it allows me to do my settings while driving with out taking the eyes off the road. It took me less than an hour to learn it inside out and all the various available options. But, then i am software engineer who deals with (bad/good) GUI driven applications all day long, so it could be because of that. With the right combination of voice command and the controller you can pretty much reach all options within 2-3 click and twists. I have a 2003 530i 5 speed and I am considering an > upgrade to the 2008 535i or perhaps the 550i. Thanks in advance for any > insights. The major differences between the two (535 vs 550) is the engine and the horse power. I am personally biased towards inline engines, but if you don't care much about how your engine cylinders are aligned, 550 will get you 60 hp more. head over to http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showforum=2 there are quite a bit of threads which compares the two. > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- > How do you like it? How is the acceleration/ handling? Any turbo-lag? How > bad/good is the iDrive? I have a 2003 530i 5 speed and I am considering an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ---------------------------------------------------------- > You REALLY need to test drive one. Everyone's idea of 'great' is different to another's. Hiring one for a week is a sensible investment when you're talking about shelling out a great deal of money and the repercussions of getting it wrong are somewhat expensive! Test drove a 535i this weekend-- sports package/ automatic transmission. Once I switched to quasi-manual mode (tiptronic or whatever they call it) I was sold. Amazingly smooth and powerful engine. No noticeable lag. Hit 85mph darting around mid-town manhattan traffic. Any reason to wait for next year or is this the perfect sedan? Small gripe- the location of the iDrive controller is right where you shift (I would be getting a manual) and seems a bit awkward. If it is any help, i have a manual and it does not get in the way or anything.... on the other hand, it is pretty handy when you have to shift while working on your CD :-) > Test drove a 535i this weekend-- sports package/ automatic transmission. > Once I switched to quasi-manual mode (tiptronic or whatever they call it) I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- >Any experience with the 2008 530i twin turbo in-line six? Yes, one test drive. As soon as I put my foot on the accelerator I new I wanted it, so I ordered it right after the test drive. Now I wait... >>Any experience with the 2008 530i twin turbo in-line six? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Now I wait... A twin turbo in-line six... that thing must be a torque monster. Signature"Remain calm, we're here to protect you!" > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are to provide different boost for different engine running conditions? Am I wrong? > Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide > twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are to > provide different boost for different engine running conditions? Am I > wrong? Two turbos running in parallel is no different than one, in concept. The difference is two smaller units can fit closer to the exhaust ports. The closer the better. >> Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide >> twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >difference is two smaller units can fit closer to the exhaust ports. The >closer the better. More to the point: two smaller turbos have much less inertia than one equivalent turbo, which goes directly toward reducing boost lag... /daytripper '00 s4 twin-KO3 6spd >>> Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide >>> twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >More to the point: two smaller turbos have much less inertia than one >equivalent turbo, which goes directly toward reducing boost lag... I've read that, yes, and perhaps it's true. I'd like to see the math. It's not obvious to me why two "half sized" is better than one "full sized" turbo. >>>> Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide >>>> twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >It's not obvious to me why two "half sized" is better than one "full >sized" turbo. It is simply a function of physics: all else being equal (materials used, turbo design, etc) you need a larger impeller to make the one turbo provide the same volume of charge air as the two. That single impeller will have a larger diameter as well as higher mass, thus it has a higher inertia to deal with on spin-up, apparently a difference that cannot be fully countered by having all of the exhaust volume working on it vs the halved volume the two smaller impellers receive... /daytripper '00 s4 6spd >>>More to the point: two smaller turbos have much less inertia than one >>>equivalent turbo, which goes directly toward reducing boost lag... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >having all of the exhaust volume working on it vs the halved volume the two >smaller impellers receive... Well, it must be the phyics, and I'm not saying what you wrote (which IS the common wisdom) is incorrect. Still, I'd like to see the math - something along the lines of "the turbo's air-moving capacity goes up with the square of the diameter while the rotational inertia goes up by the cube" (and why). Preferably from an expert, not one of us usenet pundits. 8) > Still, I'd like to see the math - something along the lines of "the > turbo's air-moving capacity goes up with the square of the diameter > while the rotational inertia goes up by the cube" (and why). > Preferably from an expert, not one of us usenet pundits. 8) Not an expert, but when you scale anything up directly using the same materials the strength goes down. Hence two small bolts are preferable to one large one, etc. So like for like two turbos with the capacity of one larger one will have less mass and will react quicker. If that makes sense. Signature*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >Not an expert, but when you scale anything up directly using the same >materials the strength goes down. Hence two small bolts are preferable to >one large one, etc. So like for like two turbos with the capacity of one >larger one will have less mass and will react quicker. If that makes sense. Kind of like how long it takes 500 Dremel tools to spin up, compared to one wood chipper. SignatureDan. >>Not an expert, but when you scale anything up directly using the same >>materials the strength goes down. Hence two small bolts are preferable to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Kind of like how long it takes 500 Dremel tools to spin up, compared >to one wood chipper. Fabulous analogy! <golf claps> /daytripper '00 s4 6spd > >Not an expert, but when you scale anything up directly using the same > >materials the strength goes down. Hence two small bolts are preferable > >to one large one, etc. So like for like two turbos with the capacity of > >one larger one will have less mass and will react quicker. If that > >makes sense. > Kind of like how long it takes 500 Dremel tools to spin up, compared > to one wood chipper. Brilliant. Wish I'd thought of that. ;-) If only I knew what a wood chipper was. Signature*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>>>More to the point: two smaller turbos have much less inertia than one >>>>equivalent turbo, which goes directly toward reducing boost lag... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >while the rotational inertia goes up by the cube" (and why). >Preferably from an expert, not one of us usenet pundits. 8) Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to supply tuned cars I can speak with a fair amount of knowledge. The smaller the turbine and impeller the faster it accelerates The problem with a fast spinning impeller is what marine engineers relate to as "cavitation". That is when the propeller spins in turbulent water with bubbles etc and the boat goes nowhere - the force of the screw is negated and it's like clutch slip on a manual car. Air is a solid - it doesn't feel like that or look like that but if it wasn't then airplanes wouldn't fly - get the idea? On a diesel that doesn't really rev to high speed compared to a petrol engine 2 x small turbos are ideal because they stave off the dreaded LAG and give low down torque. BTW Diesel engines are restricted to a max of about 5K rpm because the fuel doesn't burn faster and the deliver systems are a little slower then petrol injection. BMW actually use two different size turbos on the 3.0Lt six pot diesel to do just that - the smaller one for low torque and the larger for higher revs - the smaller is slowed when the exhaust drives the larger unit - all very nicely balanced. OTOH - some tuners fit 2 x turbos to serve 1/2 the engine like a V8 having one on each bank or a V6 or 6 in-line serving 3 cyl each. Smaller turbos faster pressurization. RACE cars and other specialist situations require different solutions but think on it a little. If going for the world land speed records you don't need fast acceleration but you do need top end power so large turbos required SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK [...] >Air is a solid - it doesn't feel like that or look like that but if it wasn't >then airplanes wouldn't fly - get the idea? [...] fwiw, "air" is considered to be a fluid, not a solid... You can look it up ;-) /daytripper '00 s4 6spd >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >/daytripper >'00 s4 6spd Good point and you are correct my misquote of course its a fluid but the problem is some people won't drown in it...... SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to >supply tuned cars I can speak with a fair amount of knowledge. > >The smaller the turbine and impeller the faster it accelerates Sorry, but that statement helps not at all, as it is devoid of *any* conditions. One can only guess that the conditions are "everything else equal", but that makes the statement absurdly obvious. You see, with two smaller turbos, each gets only half the exhaust to drive it, comparted to a single larger turbo. >>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >You see, with two smaller turbos, each gets only half the exhaust to >drive it, comparted to a single larger turbo. Dizzy - are you an arsehole by trade or were you born like it. Try this experiment. Small bucket - or paint can - 1 quart - fill with water and tie a piece of string to it about 3 foot long - holding end of string spin the water filled can in a circle above your hear in a vertical plane - may require a few swings to get going. Try accelerating it spinning faster. Now stop and empty the water out - repeat - spins easier and faster. Now try same with a longer piece of string. Finally tie string around neck and dangle from tree. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Dizzy - are you an arsehole by trade or were you born like it. f.ck off, prick. I wasn't trying to be an "a.shole", but direct and clear statements were required to get the message across. Your proposed "experiment" clarifies my initial impression that you are simply too dense to understand what is being talked-about, here. >Try this experiment. Idiot. Your experiment shows *nothing* but the brain-dead obvious "less rotational inertia accelerates more rapidly, assuming equal force applied". Duh! >>>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >"less rotational inertia accelerates more rapidly, assuming equal >force applied". Duh! So your brain works too bad your mouth doesn't. Fuckwit. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>>>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >So your brain works too bad your mouth doesn't. So you now understand that your "The smaller the turbine and impeller the faster it accelerates" statement was so obvious that it was completely unhelpful? >Fuckwit. You forgot your sig delimiter, fuckwit. >So you now understand that your "The smaller the turbine and impeller >the faster it accelerates" statement was so obvious that it was >completely unhelpful? Dizzy - in my job as on this list one has to pander to the uneducated as well as the educated therefore some folk will understand and accept a rather banal simple description relating to something they may possibly understand like maybe a bicycle or a ladder or some other object or motion that is quite common place and hopefully transfer the relationship to something more technical such as described. If you cannot compensate for your knowledge not being accepted and understood by other folk then perhaps you should learn how to explain in simple terms or if you need a detailed technical explanation personally - which obviously you don't need - ask first instead of bleating that you know it all and everyone else is a fuckwit. Perhaps there are many people out here in computer land that are not as knowledgeable as you and those are the people that ASK questions not people like you, me and Dave and a few others. Back off DAZE and stop being a show off........................... SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>So you now understand that your "The smaller the turbine and impeller >>the faster it accelerates" statement was so obvious that it was [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Back off DAZE and stop being a show off........................... Wow... I'm glad it was so obvious... Some people don't understand (or care) that mass affects acceleration. Those people are the ones that needed the information (even though they've long ago stopped reading this thread). >Wow... I'm glad it was so obvious... Some people don't understand >(or care) that mass affects acceleration. Really? Who does not understand that light things scoot-away more quickly than heavy things, assuming an equal push on each? >Those people are the ones that needed the information Grown-ups were talking. We had moved beyond pre-school "I can squish an ant because I'm bigger" level. Kindergarten is that --> way. >>Wow... I'm glad it was so obvious... Some people don't understand >>(or care) that mass affects acceleration. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Grown-ups were talking. We had moved beyond pre-school "I can squish >an ant because I'm bigger" level. Kindergarten is that --> way. Oh! Dizzy - you really do live in a dream world where everyone actually listens and learns at school and where everyone goes to high school and on to university and become doctors, lawyers and engineers..... Well I must tell you that 80% of the population are really as think as sh.t in many areas of the motor car and physics let alone shopping at K-Mart etc. Look around you - Oops! you probably live in Beverly Hills and or went to Harvard. Many "Grown Ups" as you put it spend too much time scraping a "living" to car about physics unless they need to. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>Grown-ups were talking. We had moved beyond pre-school "I can squish >>an ant because I'm bigger" level. Kindergarten is that --> way. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Well I must tell you that 80% of the population are really as think as sh.t in >many areas of the motor car and physics let alone shopping at K-Mart etc. It matters not what 80% of the population thinks or knows or cares about. You responded to a message of mine, regarding a technical subject. <snipped endearments> Hands up all those who think it's *way* past the time when dizzy and hugh should get a room together, and consummate the unfulfilled lust of the long-term fascination and attraction that they seem to have for each other. Enough of the trash talking, guys. Make it real! Go for it! SignatureDan. >>Wow... I'm glad it was so obvious... Some people don't understand >>(or care) that mass affects acceleration. > >Really? Who does not understand that light things scoot-away more >quickly than heavy things, assuming an equal push on each? Should I quote you from another message? >>>>I've read that, yes, and perhaps it's true. I'd like to see the math. >>>>It's not obvious to me why two "half sized" is better than one "full >>>>sized" turbo. It's obvious to me that you don't understand it. When discussing turbo lag, the faster the impeller spins up, the less the lag effect is. Two smaller turbos will spin up faster than one large turbo. I'm not going to try to get into the engineering side of it as I am not an engineer and you obviously know way more about it than I do (and if you're confused, I might hurt myself trying to figure it out). Besides, why redo someone elses work??? >>Those people are the ones that needed the information > >Grown-ups were talking. We had moved beyond pre-school "I can squish >an ant because I'm bigger" level. Kindergarten is that --> way. Go back to whatever know it all university that gave you a diploma and ask them for either the knowledge to go with it or at least the people skills to cover being a complete a.s. Since you like using the term fuckwit, enjoy being one. >>>>>I've read that, yes, and perhaps it's true. I'd like to see the math. >>>>>It's not obvious to me why two "half sized" is better than one "full [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >lag, the faster the impeller spins up, the less the lag effect is. Two >smaller turbos will spin up faster than one large turbo. If we're really going to get technical, your statement is too broad to be correct in all cases. Let's get specific: Let's assume that each small turbo is getting half the driving exhaust, reletive to what the larger turbo is getting. Certainly, if the combined rotational inertia of the two smaller turbos is less than that of the single larger turbo, then they will spin-up faster. But let's not lose sight of the fact that what we're really after is not rapidly-spinning turbos, but forcing more air into the engine. Is it obvious that the two smaller turbos are forcing-into the engine more air, more quickly, reletive to the single large turbo? THAT'S where things get less than obvious. The best threory presented so far, IMO, the the "strength" explanation. i.e. a turbo's rotational inertia increases more-rapidly than does it's air-compressing capacity, due to a non-linear relationship between compressor diameter and the amount of material required to make it strong enough to hold-together. Think pi*r^2 (twice the diameter gets you four times the area). So, it seems probable that, to make a turbo with twice the capacity, it's compressor must have MORE than twice the rotational inertia. >>Grown-ups were talking. We had moved beyond pre-school "I can squish >>an ant because I'm bigger" level. Kindergarten is that --> way. > >Go back to whatever know it all university that gave you a diploma and >ask them for either the knowledge to go with it or at least the people >skills to cover being a complete a.s. I wasn't the when who started calling names. I was called a "arsehole" for no particular reason. Would you like the message ID? >Since you like using the term fuckwit, enjoy being one. Only when it's well-deserved. He called me a "fsckwit" first, so he got a taste of his own medicine. >>>>>>I've read that, yes, and perhaps it's true. I'd like to see the math. >>>>>>It's not obvious to me why two "half sized" is better than one "full [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >Only when it's well-deserved. He called me a "fsckwit" first, so he >got a taste of his own medicine. Dizzy - you knew all the time whilst pretending to be a dim wit. I must ask - Have you ever seen or studied a turbo air flow map? Have you ever been involved in the design and implementation of turbo charging petrol and diesel engines? These are two pertinent questions as I have done both - admittedly I started "playing" in around 1984 and gradually built up a reasonably sized business with clients like Toyota GB, Suzuki and Ford GB. Currently I teach electronics and have kept an interest in fast cars but stopped playing with them after 2001 when I sold the engineering business and decided that the divorce was the best thing since sliced bread and the new lady was worth more of my time. Go on Dizzy, give us some more insight to your wonderful knowledge. BTW before 1984 I used to build race engines for boats and cars and also tweaked a few whole cars for fun. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >I must ask - Have you ever seen or studied a turbo air flow map? No, I have not. It sounds like it might be what I've been looking-for. >Have you ever been involved in the design and implementation of turbo charging >petrol and diesel engines? > >These are two pertinent questions as I have done both - Then contribute, by all means. I'd love to move past grade-school-level stuff and learn something new. Googling "turbo air flow map" gave some good hits, it appears. It'll take some time to digest... >Dizzy - you knew all the time whilst pretending to be a dim wit. It's not true that I "knew all the time". I'm not certain that I "know" now. I have plausible theories, all biased by the fact that I've already been told "the answer". >I wasn't the when who started calling names. I was called a >"arsehole" for no particular reason. Would you like the message ID? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Only when it's well-deserved. He called me a "fsckwit" first, so he >got a taste of his own medicine. That wiil not be necessary. It has already been established by his own admittance that he struck first. Why you have continued to escalate it is the real question. Can we all go back to playing nice in the sandbox? This can become a very technical discussion where most of us will either learn something or be completely lost but the childish crap has to go. >If you cannot compensate for your knowledge not being accepted and understood by >other folk then perhaps you should learn how to explain in simple terms or if >you need a detailed technical explanation personally - which obviously you don't >need - ask first instead I did. Perhaps you should learn now to read, fuckwit. Here again is what I wrote, fuckwit: >>>>I've read that, yes, and perhaps it's true. I'd like to see the math. >>>>It's not obvious to me why two "half sized" is better than one "full >>>>sized" turbo. >of bleating that you know it all I made no such claim, fuckwit. In fact I clearly expressed a desire to learn. Your reading comprehension problems rearing their ugly heads again, fuckwit. Or are you just a dishonest arsehole? >and everyone else is a fuckwit. I said or implied nothing of the kind, fuckwit. It's you who flew-off the handle when I gently informed you that what you wrote was trivially obvious. You know, I really don't care for some lying fuckwit coming-along and saying that I "bleated" anything like "I know it all and everyone else is a fuckwit". Stop lying, fuckwit. Better yet, just piss right off, fuckwit. >Back off DAZE and stop being a show off........................... I wasn't "showing off", fuckwit. I was TRYING to have an intelligent, adult-level conversation, until some fuckwit (you) had to call me an "arsehole" and a "fuckwit" because he didn't understand what was being discussed. >>If you cannot compensate for your knowledge not being accepted and understood by >>other folk then perhaps you should learn how to explain in simple terms or if [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >"arsehole" and a "fuckwit" because he didn't understand what was being >discussed. If you ever come to the UK Arsehole then look me up - BTW Have you got a good dentist? SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK I'm still trying to figure out when you supposedly called him a fuckwit. I've followed this conversation from the begining and he's the only person I've seen use that until I told him to enjoy being one himself. Holy sh.t are some people dense... >>>If you cannot compensate for your knowledge not being accepted and understood by >>>other folk then perhaps you should learn how to explain in simple terms or if [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >If you ever come to the UK Arsehole then look me up - BTW Have you got a good >dentist? >I'm still trying to figure out when you supposedly called him a >fuckwit. I've followed this conversation from the begining and he's >the only person I've seen use that until I told him to enjoy being one >himself. Holy sh.t are some people dense... Message dated 3/27/08 (US style - m-d-y) It's only a 3 line reply but there is the previous text there too. total line = 49 if your newsreader counts lines - I use Agent. ------------------------------------------------------cut------------------------------------------------- >>>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >"less rotational inertia accelerates more rapidly, assuming equal >force applied". Duh! So your brain works too bad your mouth doesn't. Fuckwit. ------------------------------------------------------------------end------------------------------------------ Hugh >>>>If you cannot compensate for your knowledge not being accepted and understood by >>>>other folk then perhaps you should learn how to explain in simple terms or if [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >>If you ever come to the UK Arsehole then look me up - BTW Have you got a good >>dentist? SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >I'm still trying to figure out when you supposedly called him a >fuckwit. Right here: <k8mnu35acj11c89tsf0f717nvl5hk61756@4ax.com> >I've followed this conversation from the begining and he's >the only person I've seen use that until I told him to enjoy being one >himself. Then you didn't read carefully-enough. >Holy sh.t are some people dense... As you have demonstrated. >>I'm still trying to figure out when you supposedly called him a >>fuckwit. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >As you have demonstrated. Yes Dizzy - that's the one. How clever you are! SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK f.ck off you half witted dipshit... >>I'm still trying to figure out when you supposedly called him a >>fuckwit. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >As you have demonstrated. >>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to >>>supply tuned cars I can speak with a fair amount of knowledge. This "hsg" prick reminds me of a guy who I had install a stereo for me once - he'd installed a lot of stereos, so imagined that that made him an "expert". Well, this guy used 10-gauge wire from the battery to my trunk-mounted amplifier. I asked him why he didn't use something thicker (I was hoping to find 8-gauge). He replied "10-gauge is the largest that will fit into the amplifier's power-input". (He was correct on this point.) I responded "Err, then neck it down at the end - the resistance occurs over the length of the wire, and it won't matter if you neck it down, in the last quarter-inch, to fit into the amplifier's input". He looked at me like I was nuts. >He looked at me like I was nuts. I'm guessing that must happen to you quite a bit. ;-) SignatureDan. >>>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >He looked at me like I was nuts. He was probably and probably still is but only on the "NUTS" bit - I agree with your reaction but NUTS you appear to be. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>>>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >He was probably and probably still is but only on the "NUTS" bit - I agree with >your reaction but NUTS you appear to be. At least I'm not stupid, which you have demonstrated that you are. I realize that you are trying to save face by insulting me, after getting spanked so badly, but, seriously, you're just embarrassing yourself further. >>>>>>Dizzy - As one that has built many turbo engines in the early days 1982 - 1990 >>>>>>for a number of UK dealers that were sanctioned by the importers or makers to [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >getting spanked so badly, but, seriously, you're just embarrassing >yourself further. READ EARLIER RESPONSE - I like shouting at you. Calm down and take the heart pills - you'll live longer - maybe! SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK > Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide > twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are > to provide different boost for different engine running conditions? Am > I wrong? They are two identical turbos running in parallel, each one supplying compressed air to three cylinders. The advantage of having two small turbos vs. one large one is that the smaller turbos spool up faster and therefore minimize turbo lag. The disadvantage is that small turbos run out of steam at higher rpms. What you're probably thinking of is a bi-turbo setup where there is one small turbo that engages at low rpms and one larger turbo that engages at high rpms. That is not the case in this BMW engine. Cheers, Pete >> Ah - but from what I am advised, they are not both fitted to provide >> twice the boost (which of course a single big one could do), they are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >small turbo that engages at low rpms and one larger turbo that engages >at high rpms. That is not the case in this BMW engine. I suggest you check again Pete. The 3.0L diesel 6 does have differing size turbos. But then you don't get this model over there - it's Euroland's biggest seller apart from the V8 diesel in Germany and the rest of Europe we British don't get the V8 in RHD as it's too costly to re-engineer the firewall and steering around the V* - so they say but we do get the V8 & V12 petrol variants. >Cheers, >Pete SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>What you're probably thinking of is a bi-turbo setup where there is one >>small turbo that engages at low rpms and one larger turbo that engages >>at high rpms. That is not the case in this BMW engine. > >I suggest you check again Pete. The 3.0L diesel 6 does have differing size >turbos. Conversely, in the Toyota Supra Turbo, possibly the best-known "sequential" twin-turbo, the turbos are actually the same size. >>>What you're probably thinking of is a bi-turbo setup where there is one >>>small turbo that engages at low rpms and one larger turbo that engages [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Conversely, in the Toyota Supra Turbo, possibly the best-known >"sequential" twin-turbo, the turbos are actually the same size. Maybe but I thought this was a BMW discussion list and I an speaking of diesels and you are talking petrol SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK > >>>What you're probably thinking of is a bi-turbo setup where there is one > >>>small turbo that engages at low rpms and one larger turbo that engages [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Conversely, in the Toyota Supra Turbo, possibly the best-known > >"sequential" twin-turbo, the turbos are actually the same size. > Maybe but I thought this was a BMW discussion list and I an speaking of > diesels and you are talking petrol The discussion started with the (newish) BMW petrol '3' litre turbo. Signature*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >>>What you're probably thinking of is a bi-turbo setup where there is one >> >>>small turbo that engages at low rpms and one larger turbo that engages [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >The discussion started with the (newish) BMW petrol '3' litre turbo. Hi Dave Granted but I don't remember the 1 3.0L turbo petrol. There is the 2.0 twin turbo diesel that uses different size turbos and is apparently very clean and the new 3.0d 7 and 535d use the different size turbos. Merc use to turbo the sixes using twin turbos of the same size so it might be a petrol/diesel based thing. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK > The 3.0L diesel 6 does have differing size > turbos. But I thought we were talking about the 3-liter gasoline turbo engine here, not the diesel. Pete >> The 3.0L diesel 6 does have differing size turbos. > >But I thought we were talking about the 3-liter gasoline turbo engine >here, not the diesel. We were. "hsg" is an idiot. >>> The 3.0L diesel 6 does have differing size turbos. >> >>But I thought we were talking about the 3-liter gasoline turbo engine >>here, not the diesel. > >We were. "hsg" is an idiot. You might be but I wasn't - so????????? SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
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