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Car Forum / BMW Cars / August 2008Leather vs vinyl
I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a 330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. What's the general opinion of leatherette/leather ?? Thanks >I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a >330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. What's the general >opinion of leatherette/leather ?? 1. In hot weather, leather feels much nicer than vinyl. However, cloth feels a lot better than either. 2. The BMW vinyl is excellent vinyl. It does not feel cheap and it will last a lot longer than the vinyl on American cars. 3. The BMW vinyl isn't as nice as the old Mercedes vinyl that they don't sell any more. 4. Leather seats require maintenance. You need to oil them regularly. If you don't, they will crack. If you do, they will last a long time. 5. If you dump equipment with sharp edges in the back seat, leather will tear more easily than vinyl. 6. I wish BMW had a cloth option. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > 6. I wish BMW had a cloth option. cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as leather or vinyl ... vinyl ... is sweaty, hard, smells bad, and cold but can take to vinyl repairs if necessary. leather is high maintenance as is bmw in general is high maintenance but you get what you pay for and what to wark at. there are some high maintenance woman that are worth it because they give a lot to a marriage ... and if the man is worth his spit he gives back a lot as well. great family fun, the kids love it. sumbuddie on da watchtower ... two riders are approaching, the wind begins to howl ... better get a helmet. jonetown nutters are under attack ... Pat Robertson says his Spearchucking God is out to get them first and US heathens, atheists and slanti eyed alein devils get it last. yippeee ... finally a religion I can beleive in ... sumbuddie happy today :) >> 6. I wish BMW had a cloth option. > >cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as >leather or vinyl ... vinyl ... is sweaty, hard, smells bad, and cold but can >take to vinyl repairs if necessary. All of these are perfectly true, but when the car has been out in the hot sun and it's 100'F in the shade, both leather and vinyl are NO FUN to sit down on. Keep some towels. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >> 6. I wish BMW had a cloth option. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > down on. Keep some towels. > --scott even after hard sun, leather is far cooler than vinyl ... SignatureJean-Yves. > cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as > leather or vinyl Perhaps that is true of BMW 'cloth'. But certainly not true of all. Signature*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as >> leather or vinyl > >Perhaps that is true of BMW 'cloth'. But certainly not true of all. There is no BMW cloth, at least in the US. The Mercedes cloth is nice, although I will concede it is more prone to stain problems than the vinyl. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as > >> leather or vinyl > > > >Perhaps that is true of BMW 'cloth'. But certainly not true of all. > There is no BMW cloth, at least in the US. There's no BMW vinyl, at least in the UK. I've not seen it on any car for many a year here - even vans, buses and trains have cloth seats. > The Mercedes cloth is nice, although I will concede it is more prone to > stain problems than the vinyl. --scott My last BMW - a 525 E34 - had cloth seats and that was of poor quality wear wise. Luckily a new cover for the driver's seat was cheap and easy to fit. Signature*Did you ever notice when you blow in a dog's face he gets mad at you? * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable >> >> as [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > wear wise. Luckily a new cover for the driver's seat was cheap and easy to > fit. I don't think that the 'Dakota' leather in recent BMW's is real leather. My doesn't feel like leather should. It's too soft and there is a strange 'skin' that is like a veneer. David >I don't think that the 'Dakota' leather in recent BMW's is real leather. My >doesn't feel like leather should. It's too soft and there is a strange >'skin' that is like a veneer. Most mass-market leather for the last 20 years or more is not what most people think of as leather - i.e. top grain cowhide. The Chinese in particular have been processing and selling leather using new processes that take the second and third layers of the hide, including pigskin, that result in a finish that look kind of like you'd expect "real" leather to look. Top grain cowhide leather is very costly. You'll only find it in *very* expensive cars. I suspect that "Dakota leather" is a sneaky marketing term for some kind of sub-top grain leather. SignatureDan. > >I don't think that the 'Dakota' leather in recent BMW's is real > >leather. My doesn't feel like leather should. It's too soft and there > >is a strange 'skin' that is like a veneer. > Most mass-market leather for the last 20 years or more is not what > most people think of as leather - i.e. top grain cowhide. The Chinese > in particular have been processing and selling leather using new > processes that take the second and third layers of the hide, including > pigskin, that result in a finish that look kind of like you'd expect > "real" leather to look. > Top grain cowhide leather is very costly. You'll only find it in > *very* expensive cars. I suspect that "Dakota leather" is a sneaky > marketing term for some kind of sub-top grain leather. I'm sure there are grades of leather like everything else. It's certainly far cheaper these days than it once was. I live in the part of London quite close to where the Connolly leather works used to be - long since closed and now a housing estate. But some of the street names reflect the past. I visited it once to get a Bentley seat fixed - the driver's one was scruffy while the rest near perfect. For a very small charge they soon made it look like new - including replacing a split panel. Signature*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:46:26 +0100, "David Skelton" > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > marketing term for some kind of sub-top grain leather. > -- Every other layer of the cowhide except the top layer (top grain) is would look like suede. They then take suede and apply a thin layer of polyurethane on it that simulates top grain leather. In asia it's called "Action Leather". It's a synthetic surface applied to a suede. Action leather does not breathe or wear like top grain unless micro perforations are put in the polyurethane. You can't use regular leather treatment on it either. Treat it more like vinyl. Sam S. On Aug 13, 6:14 pm, Dean Dark <ddr...@comcast.notthis.net> wrote: > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:46:26 +0100, "David Skelton" > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > marketing term for some kind of sub-top grain leather. > -- Every other layer of the cowhide except the top layer (top grain) is would look like suede. They then take suede and apply a thin layer of polyurethane on it that simulates top grain leather. In asia it's called "Action Leather". It's a synthetic surface applied to a suede. Action leather does not breathe or wear like top grain unless micro perforations are put in the polyurethane. You can't use regular leather treatment on it either. Treat it more like vinyl. Sam S. Sam, I think you're right. When it's hot here in summer - for a couple of days of the year - the seats really make my back and legs sweat. The seats do not 'breathe' at all, just like plastic. In one place, the surface is peeling like a bad paint job would. I think it must have caught a sharp edge on a piece of luggage once by the previous user. David >>> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as >>> leather or vinyl [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > There is no BMW cloth, at least in the US. The Mercedes cloth is nice, > although I will concede it is more prone to stain problems than the vinyl. Come look at the cloth in my 06 330Ci. That was one option they still let me build into it. Bob P.S. Your part is ready for pickup. >> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as >> durable as >> leather or vinyl > > Perhaps that is true of BMW 'cloth'. But certainly not true of > all. My '94 E34 has done over 180k. The cloth seats are perfect. Even the drivers seat doesn't show any signs of wear. As far as comfort goes I prefer them to the leather seats in my E39. Less slippery and cooler in the summer. Mike. Most certainly true mate !!! Let us not lump all cloth together in one pile. :) >> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as >> leather or vinyl > > Perhaps that is true of BMW 'cloth'. But certainly not true of all. > Most certainly true mate !!! > Let us not lump all cloth together in one pile. > :) > >> cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable > >> as leather or vinyl > > > > Perhaps that is true of BMW 'cloth'. But certainly not true of all. Ages ago I wanted a cheap small estate car for a particular job. It had to carry three people plus a quantity of equipment. A BL Montego was exactly the right size and cheap to buy. I bought one at auction for pennies. The previous owners were dog lovers and the cloth interior showed it. But a good valet brought it up like new. Don't think this would have been the case with either leather or vinyl. Or certainly not the leather cloth I remember from when it was common on UK cars. Signature*Who are these kids and why are they calling me Mom? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >cloth sucks, it is dirty, hard to clean, and no where near as durable as >leather or vinyl ... Utter nonsense. Buy a clue. >4. Leather seats require maintenance. You need to oil them regularly. If > you don't, they will crack. If you do, they will last a long time. How often is "regularly"? And how long before they crack if you do not oil them? >>4. Leather seats require maintenance. You need to oil them regularly. If >> you don't, they will crack. If you do, they will last a long time. > >How often is "regularly"? And how long before they crack if you do not >oil them? My old E38 was 14 years old when I sold her last year and for the 7 years I had her I never oiled the seats - washed them twice but never did anything special and the guy I bought her from told me that all she had was regular servicing and the occasional wash at the car wash machine. The guy I sold her to was very impressed with the inside condition but then I only weigh 16 stone or 225lb and then previous owner was a little bigger than me. I suppose if you eat 2 tons of hamburgers etc a year then it might get a bit worse for wear on the seats. SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >The guy I sold her to was very impressed with the inside condition but then I >only weigh 16 stone or 225lb "Only"? >>The guy I sold her to was very impressed with the inside condition but then I >>only weigh 16 stone or 225lb > >"Only"? Opposed to the 300+ of 90% of the folk I see in Wendy's eating breakfast! SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>4. Leather seats require maintenance. You need to oil them regularly. If >> you don't, they will crack. If you do, they will last a long time. > >How often is "regularly"? And how long before they crack if you do not >oil them? Depends a lot on your local climate. If you're in Canada you might never need to do it. If you're in Arizona, you might want to do as often as twice a year. I have seen seats that lasted for years and years without any careful treatment, and some that fell apart after a decade too. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > Depends a lot on your local climate. If you're in Canada you might never > need to do it. If you're in Arizona, you might want to do as often as > twice a year. ya ya > >>4. Leather seats require maintenance. You need to oil them > >> regularly. If you don't, they will crack. If you do, they will > >> last a long time. > > > >How often is "regularly"? And how long before they crack if you do > >not oil them? > Depends a lot on your local climate. If you're in Canada you might never > need to do it. If you're in Arizona, you might want to do as often as > twice a year. > I have seen seats that lasted for years and years without any careful > treatment, and some that fell apart after a decade too. I wonder if traditional feeding works with current BMW leather - it seems to have some form of coating on it which is pretty impervious to liquids. Signature*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >>4. Leather seats require maintenance. You need to oil them >> >> regularly. If you don't, they will crack. If you do, they will [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I wonder if traditional feeding works with current BMW leather - it seems >to have some form of coating on it which is pretty impervious to liquids. But they do sell a leather care kit? I have a Chinese made leather suite and although it has been mentioned that the Chinese split the hide and treat the sub layers with a plastic I have found the care kit that came with the furniture is almost exactly the same as was supplied for my old Rover 800. Haven't needed to "care" for the new car yet! Hugh SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK anyone who sings the praises of cloth seats could not afford leather nor ever had them . vinyl means " PLASTIC " ! what a ridiculous discussion . Dick >I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a >330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. What's the general >opinion of leatherette/leather ?? > > Thanks >I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a >330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. What's the general >opinion of leatherette/leather ?? > > Thanks BMW "pleather" is pretty good. It's not as comfortable as leather, but doesn't show wear and doesn't require maintenance. Most US 3-series are going to be leather cars ... its almost a requirement that dealers order the premium package which includes leather and power seats. Unless you get into the premium range (M-cars, 6 and 7 series) BMW leather is surface dyed. That tends to lose its color in the high wear areas (driver's seat LH bolsters). R / John >I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a >330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. Congrats! You're a snob! >What's the general >opinion of leatherette/leather ?? Leather is a FAR from optimal material for car seating-surfaces. People want it for the snob-appeal, not the performance. >>I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a >>330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. > > Congrats! You're a snob! no quite...yet...still a work in progress! :) > Leather is a FAR from optimal material for car seating-surfaces. > People want it for the snob-appeal, not the performance. Gotta be better than vinyl, though. Signature*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> Leather is a FAR from optimal material for car seating-surfaces. >> People want it for the snob-appeal, not the performance. > >Gotta be better than vinyl, though. Does it "gotta" be better? How about on a per-dollar basis? Like, if they could spend as much on the "other material" as they do on the leather? I believe that, if it weren't for the snob appeal, leather would lose-out badly, to a variety of alternate materials. > >> Leather is a FAR from optimal material for car seating-surfaces. > >> People want it for the snob-appeal, not the performance. > > > >Gotta be better than vinyl, though. > Does it "gotta" be better? How about on a per-dollar basis? That's a different question. But then if value for money was the only criteria you'd probably not buy a BMW. > Like, if they could spend as much on the "other material" as they do on > the leather? There are trim materials which were/are an alternative that cost as much. West of England cloth is one. > I believe that, if it weren't for the snob appeal, leather would > lose-out badly, to a variety of alternate materials. What's wrong with using a natural sustainable material? Use the oil that vinyl comes from for what god intended. ;-) Signature*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a > 330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. What's the general > opinion of leatherette/leather ?? > > Thanks While leather is preferable to leatherette, I think a well maintained car with leatherette is preferable to a minimally maintained car with leather. BIG difference between tan leather car interiors and black leather car interiors in summer. >> I know most 3-series have leatherette, aka vinyl. I'm in the marker for a >> 330 Coupe...but just the mention of vinyl cheapens it. What's the general [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >BIG difference between tan leather car interiors and black leather car >interiors in summer. Definitely - tan is much much cooler and also quicker to cool down when the AC comes into play. Also looks nicer SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>BIG difference between tan leather car interiors and black leather car >>interiors in summer. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Also looks nicer A black car with tan upholstery looks gorgeous. It's a shame that black is such a bitch to keep looking good. I've *sworn*, *definitely* that this is the *last* black car I'll *ever* buy, at least three times now. SignatureDan. >>BIG difference between tan leather car interiors and black leather car >>interiors in summer. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Also looks nicer IMHO, grey leather is the best of both worlds ... 8;) -- Larry >>>BIG difference between tan leather car interiors and black leather car >>>interiors in summer. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >-- Larry Don't tell me you also have a grey car with grey seats and grey window tint and wear a grey suit too! Talk about men in black - grey fades into obscurity --------- Please drive with headlight on so others can see you;>)) SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK >>IMHO, grey leather is the best of both worlds ... 8;) > >Don't tell me you also have a grey car with grey seats and grey window tint and >wear a grey suit too! Metallic grey 325i with grey leather -- my wife's car, looks pretty good at 6 yrs. (Both, actually, but the wife is slightly older than 6.) I gave up wearing suits or ties in 2000, but about 90% of my clothing _is_ black. And has been, come to think of it, since around 1960, except for those years when Uncle Sam selected my wardrobe. 8;) . -- Larry >>>IMHO, grey leather is the best of both worlds ... 8;) >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >. >-- Larry I too gave up wearing suits in 2000 Larry. Reason was that there was a court case over here regarding the fact that male employees of the Governments "Job Centre" (where one goes to register as unemployed and apply for benefit) complained that female workers could where what they wanted to (and some looked as though they had been digging the garden -sic) male employees had to wear trousers, shirt and a tie. The court found in favour of the male employees and upheld the point that males dress code was change as was female dress code to smart casual unless main occupation was meeting the public in official capacity. From that date I never wore a jacket nor a tie - as a teacher my head didn't like it but over the last 4 years I have seen him in open neck shirt and casual trousers most of the time. Jacked the job in last month - not retired - as I decided not to be a circus clown and jump through hoops just to please some new initiative..... SignatureSir Hugh of Bognor The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK |
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