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Car Forum / BMW Cars / April 2004

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330ci v's the old 328i

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Maguires Garage - 07 Apr 2004 13:58 GMT
I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.

The new M3 has opened up a pretty significant gap in my opinion.

i think the 330ci has lost a bit of its class appeal.

Having a 323ci myself I can't really comment but would like to hear
what you think as I've been offered a 330ci at a reasonable price.

James
info@maguiresgarage.co.uk
http://www.maguiresgarage.co.uk
Phil - 07 Apr 2004 15:23 GMT
You are probably right, in some areas.  In general, it seems that people
feel the handling of the old M3 is better, and in some circles, the new
model has taken a step backward, with lighter steering and a 250 lb. weight
gain.  Engine performance is another matter, with the new unit having 38%
more power than the old M3 (U.S. model).  But, torque is up by 14%, and that
torque is found at 1100 rpm higher, so at moderate speeds, the increase is
not that much.  The net result in moderate speed acceleration is not as much
as might be expected due to the modest torque increase, extra weight, and
taller gearing in 6th gear vs. the lower gearing in top gear (5th) of the
older M3.  No doubt, in a drag race, the new model wins, by about 1.3
seconds in a 0 - 60 contest.  For the same gap to exist on the old M3 vs the
328, the 328 would need to reach 60 in about 6.9 seconds.  The actual
performance gap may not be all that much different then, but am not sure of
the acceleration time on the 328.

I drove a '98 M3 back to back with a 330ci.  The M3 is obviously faster.
Not a blowout, but the lighter weight, lower gearing, and greater torque all
add up to noticeably stronger acceleration.  The handling was not at all
similar, with the old M3 much more direct.  As a result, I bought the used
M3.

- Phil

> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> info@maguiresgarage.co.uk
> http://www.maguiresgarage.co.uk
fbloogyudsr - 07 Apr 2004 16:48 GMT
> You are probably right, in some areas.  In general, it seems that people
> feel the handling of the old M3 is better, and in some circles, the new
> model has taken a step backward, with lighter steering and a 250 lb. weight
> gain.  Engine performance is another matter, with the new unit having 38%
> more power than the old M3 (U.S. model).

> > ...
> > James
> > info@maguiresgarage.co.uk
> > http://www.maguiresgarage.co.uk

Please note that he's posting from the UK, and comparisons with
the US E36 M3 are inappropriate.

IMO, the Euro E36 M3  was never very comparable to the E36 328.
The E46 M3 might be a little "softer", but not by much.

Floyd
jeh - 08 Apr 2004 01:22 GMT
330ci has lost a bit of class appeal.   I own a 328ic convertible with
upgraded chip + intake.  Yes, the equivalent
E36 M3 is faster, but in normal driving conditions the difference isn't
enourmous.

The new M3 does, in my option, widen the gap.  But if you can get a good
deal on a 330ci, then take it.  you can get a
bit more out of it with improved intake and performance chip, but the
improvement is not so dramatic as that with the
earlier engine models.  For example, i went from 190hp to about 225hp on my
328.  You wont get anywhere near that % gain
with simple bolt-ons, unless you go for forced induction ....

> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> info@maguiresgarage.co.uk
> http://www.maguiresgarage.co.uk
Andrew Thomas - 08 Apr 2004 09:28 GMT
> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
>
> The new M3 has opened up a pretty significant gap in my opinion.

Old 328i: 193 bhp.  Old M3: 321 bhp.  That's quite a gap!

330Ci: 231 bhp.  M3: 343 bhp.  The 330Ci has if anything closed the
gap, hasn't it?

> i think the 330ci has lost a bit of its class appeal.

Are "appeal" and "class appeal" different things?  This isn't
communist Russia - buy the car you like, not what you think you should
buy, or what others tell you to buy.

> Having a 323ci myself I can't really comment but would like to hear
> what you think as I've been offered a 330ci at a reasonable price.

Well, do you like your 323Ci?
Ignasi Palou-Rivera - 08 Apr 2004 17:47 GMT
>> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
>> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
>>
>> The new M3 has opened up a pretty significant gap in my opinion.
>
> Old 328i: 193 bhp.  Old M3: 321 bhp.  That's quite a gap!

Maybe the OP is in the US, with our tamer E36 M3: 240 bhp.

Signature

Ignasi.
'90 325is
(using SPAM trap e-mail address)

Jack Baruth - 09 Apr 2004 14:58 GMT
>>> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
>>> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Maybe the OP is in the US, with our tamer E36 M3: 240 bhp.

Ask the M Coupe fellows; the difference between the US-spec
240hp M motor and the 321hp M motor doesn't *feel* like 81
horsepower.

Ignasi Palou-Rivera - 09 Apr 2004 17:38 GMT
>>>> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
>>>> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 240hp M motor and the 321hp M motor doesn't *feel* like 81
> horsepower.

Are you saying BMWNA was underrating engines?

At least you could get a 321 bhp M Coupe (or M Roadster) in the US in
the later years.

Signature

Ignasi.
'90 325is
(using SPAM trap e-mail address)

Fred W. - 09 Apr 2004 17:46 GMT
> >>> I like the new 330ci but don't think they come as close to matching
> >>> the new M3 as the old 328i did to the old M3.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 240hp M motor and the 321hp M motor doesn't *feel* like 81
> horsepower.

That's because you don't really *feel* horsepower.  You *feel* torque which
equates to acceleration.  What is the difference in torque?

Fred W
Ignasi Palou-Rivera - 09 Apr 2004 18:08 GMT
>> >> jamesyboyg@hotmail.com (Maguires Garage) wrote in message
> news:<374b9d27.0404070458.384df0bf@posting.google.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> That's because you don't really *feel* horsepower.  You *feel* torque which
> equates to acceleration.  What is the difference in torque?

Max torque is 236 ft-lbs at 3800 rpm vs 251 ft-lbs at 4900 rpm. very
close, especially considering the lower rpm at which max torque is
reached for the "older" version.

Signature

Ignasi.
'90 325is
(using SPAM trap e-mail address)

Fred W. - 09 Apr 2004 19:17 GMT
> >> >> jamesyboyg@hotmail.com (Maguires Garage) wrote in message
> > news:<374b9d27.0404070458.384df0bf@posting.google.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> close, especially considering the lower rpm at which max torque is
> reached for the "older" version.

Bingo!!
Andrew Thomas - 10 Apr 2004 12:42 GMT
> > > That's because you don't really *feel* horsepower.  You *feel* torque
>  which
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Bingo!!

Any web search will show that the old US M3 version posts similar
low-speed acceleration times to the 286/321 bhp RoW derivative.  The
difference comes at higher speeds - the incremental 120-140 mph time
of the European version is a fraction of that posted by the 240 bhp US
variety.  And despite having a lower redline, the US version also has
lower gearing, for stoplight drag racing :).
 
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