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Car Forum / BMW Cars / April 2004Driving School 101
Ok. What is the correct way to maintain control and get back on the road if one or two passenger side wheels go onto a soft shoulder? My driving instructors only taught me how to pass the driving test, so I went to do proper driving lessons, where they taught us: 3 Fs - Fix it with your Feet First.... If you're on the accelerator, back off.... If you're on the brake, back off..... (This will stop skidding) Then, steer in the direction you want the car to go. I've never had this advice fail me..... And, in what they called the "Big Skid", they said just hit the brake as hard as you can and hope for the best.... Apparently this doesn't happen very often at all though.... > Ok. > > What is the correct way to maintain control and get back on the road if one > or two passenger side wheels go onto a soft shoulder? I neglected to credit Murcott Advanced Driving Centre (www.murcott.com.au) with this advice... So I do so here.... > My driving instructors only taught me how to pass the driving test, so I > went to do proper driving lessons, where they taught us: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > one > > or two passenger side wheels go onto a soft shoulder? > Ok. > > What is the correct way to maintain control and get back on the road if one > or two passenger side wheels go onto a soft shoulder? Maintain your speed, hold the wheel firmly, and steer gently back on to the road. Make no sudden moves at all, just firm, calm ones. When demonstrating used BMW's, I used to do this one handed at 100kph to demonstrate the poise of the suspension. Really, it need not be dramatic. When you've done it enough times on purpose, if it happens unexectedly it doesn't even raise your pulse. You just deal with it and move on. -Russ. > > Ok. > > > > What is the correct way to maintain control and get back on the road if > one > > or two passenger side wheels go onto a soft shoulder? Russ, notice it's a *soft* shoulder. This generally implies it's also effectively a *dropped* shoulder. Therefore Rule Number One is SLOW DOWN! > Maintain your speed, hold the wheel firmly, and steer gently back on to the > road. Make no sudden moves at all, just firm, calm ones. > > When demonstrating used BMW's, I used to do this one handed at 100kph to > demonstrate the poise of the suspension. Really, it need not be dramatic. It'll be *damned * dramatic if the shoulder is an inch or so lower than the pavement. When you finally get enough steering input to 'jump' the wheel onto the surface, you'll have *too much* input to keep from going over the centerline, if not all the way off the opposite side of the road. I know more than one car that's been crashed at Road America because of this - and dozens, if not hundreds, of teen drivers and passengers die annually because of this. *Do not* minimize the hazards of a dropped wheel! > When you've done it enough times on purpose, if it happens unexectedly it > doesn't even raise your pulse. With that attitude, it might even stop your pulse. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; seen that too many times) > It'll be *damned * dramatic if the shoulder is an inch or so lower > than the pavement. When you finally get enough steering input to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of teen drivers and passengers die annually because of this. *Do not* > minimize the hazards of a dropped wheel! C.R., I know you will appreciate this. I took my Superformance to the Ledges two Friday ago. As you probably know, they have repaved most of it. As you may not know, and as I did not know until Lap 4, they did not take the new paving all the way over on the exit of Turn 1. I estimated the drop to be about an inch and a half... I was doing 85-90+ at the time with some degree of scrub already established on exit. I will admit to having a minor pulse blip at that moment. :) > > It'll be *damned * dramatic if the shoulder is an inch or so lower > > than the pavement. When you finally get enough steering input to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 85-90+ at the time with some degree of scrub already established on > exit. Here in Ontario there isn't normally a drop of that size, though I've seen it driving in KY and a few spots in NY, not that I was really looking for it mind you. However if I have a drop like that I would actually sway out a bit on to the shoulder so that I could take a bit of a run at it again and I would expect it to go up smoothly due to the momentum of the car. I've tried this on ragged road edges, not sure how bad the drop was mind you, and it worked fine. But part of it is getting yourself a little bit farther *off* the road, so that it's easy to get back on. I agree if you just drop two wheels off and hug the 1" lip, you're in for a shock when you finally dial in enough steering to jump it. I never do it that way. Just hold on firmly, make nice gentle inputs, and drive back up. I never try to make it "hop" up to the road. That's part of what I do when I do it on purpose, and, I add it as part of an accidental drop too. -Russ. Thanks for all the advice. Just to be clear, the proper way to handle this situation is to NOT try and jump back on the road, but continue on with one or both wheels on the shoulder, and try to get some more room between the dropped wheel(s) and the lip (mostly the shoulders are lower if memory serves), then ease on up back on the road with minimal steering input to avoid jumping across the rh lane. Good? > Thanks for all the advice. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lip (mostly the shoulders are lower if memory serves), then ease on up back > on the road with minimal steering input to avoid jumping across the rh lane. The great danger is that you will have substantial steering input dialed in when the front tire finally gets back on the pavement. That can make the front end go accelerating laterally while the outside rear is still in the dirt and susceptible to considerable sliding, allowing the car to rotate quite a bit before all four are back on the pavement. When that happens, you rocket across the road and depart the other side. However you get back on, you should be alert to the possibility of a bit of rotation, and be ready to correct a bit. Mark Folsom > Thanks for all the advice. > > Just to be clear, the proper way to handle this situation is to NOT try and > jump back on the road, but continue on with one or both wheels on the > shoulder, I think that dismisses the rotation the vehicle will attempt when the two tires hit soft shoulder and the others remain on the road. The first thing to be immediately done is correct for the in difference is resistance to the tires on either side of the car. Minor steering input and high power are critical at this point. > and try to get some more room between the dropped wheel(s) and the > lip (mostly the shoulders are lower if memory serves), then ease on up back > on the road with minimal steering input to avoid jumping across the rh lane. > C.R., I know you will appreciate this. I took my Superformance to the > Ledges two Friday ago. As you probably know, they have repaved most of > it. I might have heard rumors. Of course, there have been rumors about as long as I've been driving (since the late '60s). ;^) Did they get rid of the big bump on the right just before Start-Finish? Did they really fill in *all* the holes on the back straight? > As you may not know, and as I did not know until Lap 4, they did > not take the new paving all the way over on the exit of Turn 1. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I will admit to having a minor pulse blip at that moment. :) It's been years since I've been there. Doesn't that just about line you up *perfectly* with the oak tree on the left side of Two? =|^$ [The closed-eyes 'Oh sh.t!' smiley.] -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; didn't crash there) > I might have heard rumors. Of course, there have been rumors about as > long as I've been driving (since the late '60s). ;^) Did they get > rid of the big bump on the right just before Start-Finish? I would say so. > Did they > really fill in *all* the holes on the back straight? They have been replaced with waves, which still unsettle the car to say the least. The sharp dip after the kink has been addressed to some extent. > It's been years since I've been there. Doesn't that just about line > you up *perfectly* with the oak tree on the left side of Two? =|^$ > [The closed-eyes 'Oh sh.t!' smiley.] I think that tree is gone... the most egregious "Oh sh.t" moment came from a fellow who brought a 383 Lingenfelter Camaro on a trailer, made disparaging comments about everyone else's car (this being his first track day, he was expecting more serious hardware like, I don't know, Esprit X180Rs or something) and, in the course of the second "parade lap" to start the day, had a testosterone attack in the Carousel. The result: A Lingenfelter Camaro against the tire wall, perpendicular to the ground, neatly resting on the passenger door and left rear quarter panel. I would mention that he was running all-season tires on aftermarket chrome 18" rims, but you probably already guessed that. > In article <a8a578a8.0404280836.64c55c86@posting.google.com>, > I think that tree is gone... the most egregious "Oh sh.t" moment came [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > panel. I would mention that he was running all-season tires on > aftermarket chrome 18" rims, but you probably already guessed that. Did he have any neon lights or perhaps an indiglo license plate surround? -Russ. > > In article <a8a578a8.0404280836.64c55c86@posting.google.com>, > > I think that tree is gone... the most egregious "Oh sh.t" moment came [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Did he have any neon lights or perhaps an indiglo license plate surround? No, I'm sure that would be the wrong poseur group... this would have been a track poseur, vs. the common street poseur > > > panel. I would mention that he was running all-season tires on > > > aftermarket chrome 18" rims, but you probably already guessed that. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, I'm sure that would be the wrong poseur group... this would have been a > track poseur, vs. the common street poseur Ah yes, I understand now. There were none of those in the two schools I've been too -- really great groups both times. Including the guy that brought the (unmodified) C4 Vette. Which really wasn't that fast given the company... M3's of nearly every year and description and some wickedly modified E30's and E36's plus assorted other varieties. All nice guys though, it was a lot of fun. -Russ. > "Jack Baruth" <jack@calrco.com> wrote in message I would mention that he was running all-season tires on > > aftermarket chrome 18" rims, but you probably already guessed that. > > Did he have any neon lights or perhaps an indiglo license plate surround? > > -Russ. I don't think the tires had anything to do with the "incident". These Camaro's are known to react this way due to a weird interaction when the drivers foot is disconnected from the brain at the point of the crescendo in Golden Earing's "Radar Love". Experienced drivers will do a checkout lap to establish the timing of this passage to coincide with entering the longest straightway on the track. >> "Jack Baruth" <jack@calrco.com> wrote in message > I would mention that he was running all-season tires on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > establish the timing of this passage to coincide with entering the longest > straightway on the track. Is alt.humor.best-of-usenet still up? This deserves a submission. > >> "Jack Baruth" <jack@calrco.com> wrote in message > > I would mention that he was running all-season tires on [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Is alt.humor.best-of-usenet still up? This deserves a submission. Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. Alt.humour would not be a good forum - too many Camaro owners with flames in posts AND on their cars. But as we all know, the difference between a Camaro and a cactus is that a cactus has pricks on the outside. (-; > result: A Lingenfelter Camaro against the tire wall, perpendicular to > the ground, neatly resting on the passenger door and left rear quarter > panel. I would mention that he was running all-season tires on > aftermarket chrome 18" rims, but you probably already guessed that. Ok... I'm trying to figure it out. Just *how* does one rest a car against anything(s) using those two points? nate  Signaturego dry to reply. http://www.toad.net/~njnagel >> result: A Lingenfelter Camaro against the tire wall, perpendicular to >> the ground, neatly resting on the passenger door and left rear quarter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ok... I'm trying to figure it out. Just *how* does one rest a car > against anything(s) using those two points? The car had gone off, flipped perhaps 1.5 times, and come to rest on its right side with all four tires against the tire wall. The right rear had sort of dug into the ground, lifting the right front free. The driver was climbing out of the drivers door window. >>> result: A Lingenfelter Camaro against the tire wall, perpendicular to >>> the ground, neatly resting on the passenger door and left rear quarter [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >rear had sort of dug into the ground, lifting the right front >free. The driver was climbing out of the drivers door window. lol nice imagery >> >The car had gone off, flipped perhaps 1.5 times, and come to rest on > >its right side with all four tires against the tire wall. The right > >rear had sort of dug into the ground, lifting the right front > >free. The driver was climbing out of the drivers door window. > > lol nice imagery What a coincidence! That's a stunt coming up in "2 Fast-2 Stupid". > I think that tree is gone... the most egregious "Oh sh.t" moment came > from a fellow who brought a 383 Lingenfelter Camaro on a trailer, made [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > panel. I would mention that he was running all-season tires on > aftermarket chrome 18" rims, but you probably already guessed that. ROTFLMAO! Hey, you're my kinda' Track Rat! Hope you can get to Road America sometime! Of course, we've managed to purge ourselves of most of the flaming a.sholes like this guy, but there are always a few overinflated egos for us to prick with our pins. ;^) -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; didn't do *that*) > Ok. > > What is the correct way to maintain control and get back on the road if one > or two passenger side wheels go onto a soft shoulder? Same thing as you do when you get a flat on the highway.....mash the gas pedal to regain control, then bring the vehicle down to a speed that allows you to manage the "bump" back up onto solid pavement. |
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