"Tyler" <tuber1487@hotmail.com> wrote

IME, the BMW will be less expensive to care for.  You probably
won't be able to work on either, in any case.

The Porsche drives like nothing else; the BMW is much more
like other cars in it's driving characteristics.

Floyd

The M3 is a more practical car with a half way reasonable back seat.
There's not much work you can do on either car; however, it's probably true
that when you need work done by a mechanic, it's going to be less expensive
to work on the M3, because they won't have to drop the engine to do anything
but change oil, filters and coolant...as in the 911.

The 911 is more "sports car", with a lower center of gravity, it will
probably feel more sporting, but the M3 is no slouch either.

Depends on what you're looking for...either way, you can't go wrong.

Choose and don't look back!  Enjoy!

I don't know what your needs are, but here are my thoughts:
I drive BMW's (currently a 545i) but, in general, because I need a sedan
that seats four. If that was not a requirement in my life I would be in a
911 (996 platform).

While the M3 is an unbelievably capable car, I think it's a fence sitter.
Too small to be a functional 4 seater but a bit bloated to be a real sports
car (400+ lb. heavier than the 911). By comparison to the 911 the M3 is
almost a muscle car in that it will go straight faster, but won't keep up in
the twisties.

For my money, and for what is available in the US today, I think nothing
beats a 911 with a stick for pure driving fun. I've got a 3 car garage, but
between me, my wife and daughter...it's full. But as soon as my daughter
heads to college I'll have a 911 in that newly vacated garage spot.

That way I get the needed sedan and the desired sports car.

There is one HUGE thing not being talked about.  Price!  The M3 is $47,100,
while the 911 is $21,500 more at $68,600.  The M3 can be boosted to $60k
with every single option selected, including the sequential gearbox, but
could not do this with the Porsche since this portion of their site doesn't
work.  But, when I have looked at option prices for Porsche before, the cost
is frightening.

I have a '98 M3 and found two surprises.  One, if you buy parts on-line, the
prices are cheap.  Cheaper than for the same parts for my Honda.  I needed a
new radiator and that was less than $200.  Synthetic oil from the dealer is
about $5 a quart, the same as my local Wal-Mart.  Some parts are expensive,
but many are not.  Secondly, I replaced the thermostat, waterpump, and
radiator in my car, and it is not that hard.  Some things are definitely
shop-only, but the Porsche looks like it is shop all the time.

Both are excellent cars, but for $20,000 less, a likelihood of reduced
maintenance costs, and roughly equal performance, I'd take the M3.  By the
way, the Porsche is 395 lbs. less than the M3.

- Phil

Practicality is probably the only issue. Both will be fun, both will be
fast, both will retain their values longer, it just depends on how much room
you need. Dropping the Mrs. and kids off at the airport will be much easier
in the BMW. My son is 4 months old, he won't be able to ride in my Porsche
for at least another 3 years. I bet you can get a seat in the BMW.

2005 may be the last year for the E46 M3. If resale value is any concern to
you, there's some measurable risk that BMW *might* just get the next body
design right (hey - they're *clearly* over due) which would surgically remove
a good chunk of value from the old design...

dollars wise, fully loaded the M3 comes out to around 65k, whereas the 911
starts out in that price range.  you can easily spend another 10-15k just to
personalize it........and you will want to do this.  if you can afford it,
go for the 911.

my brother has a 2003 M3 bought in 12/2002.  it needed a new transmission
during the first 6 months.  then the stick shift BROKE off in his hand while
shifting.  yes, BROKE off.  the BMW service center said this is the first
they have seen this.  they said they have seen stick shifts come out of
their place before, but never brake off.  he has also had other small
problems with the power windows and power door locks.

the car has been in for service at least once every 2 months.  he decided to
call BMW to complain, but they did not give a sh.t.  their answer was "not
all of our cars have problems like this."

i am not a BMW basher.  i own a 2001 530i and my wife drives a 2002 X5.  we
have had no problems with these cars.

berj

======================================================================
* Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr. <jackru$$ell2@notmail.com>
* Newsgroup: alt.autos.bmw,alt.autos.porsche
* Reply to: All;  "Tyler" <tuber1487@hotmail.com>
* Date: 2 Jul 2004 12:51:30 -0700
* Subj: BMW M3 or Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe
======================================================================

T> After about a decade of investing, I finally have enough money to
T> buy a sports car.  You can't even imagine how much I have
T> anticipated the day I would have enough money to spend on a car
T> like this.  Needless to say, I want to make sure I make the
T> correct decision regarding which car to purchase.  I have it
T> narrowed down to either a BMW M3 or Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe.
T> Every time I see these cars, I melt.  I am utterly obsessed with
T> the M3.  My friend has one and it is one of the most beautiful
T> cars I have ever seen.  Then there's the Porsche.  How can you not
T> love a car with the reputation of the 911.  I love the looks of
T> this car to the point of obsession as well.  Now here's the
T> dilemma...which to buy.  I have a test drive of both scheduled for
T> next week in Atlanta and will have to test both before making my
T> decision, but what would you guys choose?  I know they are both
T> sports cars but, in terms of upkeep, which would be the least
T> hassle?  The Porsche's engine compartment appears to be very
T> difficult to get at (from nonmechanics POV).  I love both of these
T> cars but only have enough $ for one.  Could anyone provide some
T> suggestions please?  I know both are great cars, I just want to be
T> sure to make the most of something I have worked so hard for.
T> Thanks for your assistance.

While I can't speak for the BMW anything, having always owned
Porsches,
I can say that with the Porsche, you will have access to many online
resources for parts, technical assistance, and lower priced, high
quality OEM parts. The many Porsche tech groups and forums provide
information and repair assistance for all models thus making turning
your own wrenches and routine repairs an easy almost fun experience.
The camaraderie among Porsche groups and owners creates a vast
technical resource for the new owner.

<snip>

I love both of these cars but only have

Tyler:  I've owned a BMW 325i and 3 Porsche 911s over the past few decades.
I currently am perfectly happy driving a much less reliable, oversized
kitcar,  but you have defined your choice, and I'll address that in a
minute.  But first, I have a suggestion.

Looking at the tone of your post, it appears that you've worked hard for ten
years, and have come up with a $70,000 budget or so.  While that's
admirable, I'm not reading that this will be  easy money for you to replace.
New cars depreciate generally speaking.  Certain cars have different resale
values, in case your dream doesn't measure up to your future wants or needs,
and you need/want to re-sell.

I suggest you buy a newer pre-owned (used) vehicle, and let someone else
take the "hit" of the initial depreciation.

Having said that, I believe that many people  (I'm one of them) prefer an
air cooled Porsche 911 over a water cooled.  And while EXCELLENCE magazine
has preached for years to purchase the latest model 911 you can afford, I
would suggest buying the latest model of the discontinued air cooled 911 you
can afford.  That model line is the 993, and I personally believe it's
re-sale value will hold up better than the 996 line over the next decade.  I
also believe that Porsche will be changing their body style, and going back
to a 994 appearance, thereby differentiating the 911 line from the "poorer"
Boxster  (try a Boxster S on some twisty roads and the "poorer" part isn't
quite as clear).    I think this will further hurt the 996 line.

I'm a bit biased on the 3 series BMW.  My 1988 325i's engine literally blew
up at 38,000 miles, just 2 thousand miles outside of warranty, because the
cam belt broke.  Since the car was in for "everything" just before the
warranty expired, at the dealer, and  I could  prove it, they covered most
of the repairs (not fluids and belts).  But I've always worried just a bit
about the 3 series.    I would think that for new M3 money, you could get a
used M5.   When you test drive the M3, why not see if the dealer has a three
year old M5 on the lot, that you could purchase an extended warranty on?
The M5 could grow with you if you have a family, or start to carry people as
business customers, but has perhaps the best balance of any of the sedans in
the world.

I used to buy new cars all the time.   It made me feel good.      This time
around I bought my S Class Mercedes as a lease return, and my 96 Viper from
a collector friend when it was time for him to update his collection.   Both
of my cars cost about what one of the new 911s will cost you (maybe slightly
more but under $100,000 for both).   Unless you badly desire to buy new,  if
money takes you a decade to come by, I'd stretch it as far as I could.

And if you DO want to spend $85,000 --- why not get a used Porsche 911
Turbo??  Faster than my Viper, with all the modern conveniences thrown
in......... what a car!

Regards,
1996 Viper

After a decade of saving, you cannot invest in something mundane, like a 3
series BMW, even one with a powerful engine.  The M3 is not a true sports
car - try 10 laps of a track and see if the brakes can cope!  It is a hugely
successful marketing gimmick, an icon without substance.

The 911 is the real thing.  No amount of advice (and well done for
stimulating such fervent debate) will matter after the test drives.  The
Porsche steering alone when compared with the BMW will illustrate the
essential differences.

In order of preference, I'd get a Carrera 2 new, used Carrera 4S or a 996
GT3 Mk 1 - the best of the bunch, apart from the unhelpfully expensive GT3
RS.  You may want to wait for the 997 as it will make current cars just that
little bit cheaper.

Hope you enjoy the 911.

The other posts have covered a lot of valid issues around cost, price,
weight, durability, etc. I am also a fan of the 993 version of the
Porsche 911 series and would recommend that you at least take a look
at the 1997-98 models. The 1998 C4-S is a beautiful car that can be
purchased with relatively low miles.  From my perspective, if you can
live with a car that does not have a useful back seat, the 911 is the
way to go. BMW can be counted on to make significant changes to the
apperance of the M3 periodically, while the 911 series is easily
identifiable as part of the same family... To some this is good, to
others, newness is better. Good luck.

are you mad? a chevy corvette z06 is the only way to go son.  more power,
more performance, less money.  you must be a young gun, learn from the
experienced....chevrolet corvette, a good decision.  if not a z06, the c6
equals any german in quality and performance, might just be a little better
too while you can put a few bucks in your pocket.  go drive one, you'll love
it, buy american, happy july 4th son.

If it took you a decade to come up with $50k, why blow it ALL on a
sports car? For $15k you can buy a nice used E30, M3 - (the "real" M3)
and keep the rest for later. It sounds like that is more in your
*affordable* price range, anyhow. FWIW, my buddy just bought a 996. He
spent 10 times more for it than I spent on my E30 325is. While it was a
nice car,  I can have just as much fun in my E30 for 1/10th the price.

-Rob

If I didn't have a wife & 2 kids I'd go for a 911.

Tony (M3 Conv. being delivered on Friday this week).

tuber1487@hotmail.com (Tyler) wrote in news:5e584fa7.0407021151.3b08eef1
@posting.google.com:

Oh to have the dilemma! Your two choices makes it somewhat difficult to
compare since it is an apples to oranges comparo. Two seats or four?
Stealth or head-turning attention?

I'm somewhat in your same category. For the two seat coupe, I would say
it's difficult to beat the price/performance ratio of a Corvette Z06. If
you'd like to carry four of your friends, a Lancer Evo, Subaru STi, or
the M3 or S4 would be a good choice. Either way, the cost of living with
the two German cars would be slightly higher since it's difficult to do
your own maintenance.

FYI, I'm going to buy an M3 here and when I get back home to the States,
get an Evo. I can have my fun car and then my going to the opera car too!

The M3 is a great car, but, if I could afford it without hardship (it
will cost you a LOT more to own), I'd go for the 911.

Tyler,
If you had to invest for a decade to afford one of these two great cars,
you have to work even harder to keep your dream car running. You may
want to check with you local tax department if you need to pay 5 percent
property tax every year on the car. It's not so much that you can afford to
buy it, it's more that you can afford to keep it.

For the performance, go to buy a WRX. Good luck.