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Car Forum / BMW Cars / December 2005

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750iL Advice?

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Alex - 23 Dec 2004 01:15 GMT
For whatever reason, V12 engines have fascinaed me since I was a kid.

Can't afford a Ferrari, and Jag's seem pretty much a money pit.

So was thinking about an early 90's 750iL.

What kind of things should I be looking for, and be wary of?

Thanks!

Alex
Somebody - 23 Dec 2004 13:34 GMT
> For whatever reason, V12 engines have fascinaed me since I was a kid.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Thanks!

Don't kid yourself, it's still a money pit, just not on the order of those
other two you mentioned.

Don't assume any engine repair is minor, blowing even a bit of smoke or
failing emissions is a no-buy fault.  Electrical glitches will be 10 times
harder than you think to fix, and if possible avoid a car with the
self-leveling suspension -- or be ready to spend thousands to either a)
repair it when it fails or b) replace it with a non-leveling suspension when
it fails.  New exhaust is nice becuase it costs over a thousand dollars a
side but lasts a decade or more.

A surprising amount can be fixed by the determined shadetree mechanic but
you will need a very talented independant when it gets harder than that if
you want things fixed well without costing a fortune.

They are simply incredible cars to drive, there is nothing quite like that
smooth, seeminly unending power, and they have incredible chassis poise for
their size.  Not to mention being extremely roomy and nicely designed
inside.

-Russ.
John Burns - 23 Dec 2004 17:04 GMT
> So was thinking about an early 90's 750iL.
>
> What kind of things should I be looking for, and be wary of?

Walk away from any car without full history.

If there's a fluid leak from the area where the engine and tranny meet
then run away.

Intake manifold gaskets eventually need to be replaced.

If the throttle control motors cause problems the dealer will replace
them for major $. But there are a few sites that show how to refurb
them.

This is not a car to buy unless you can do most of the repairs yourself.
They are generally reliable but if you can't fix it yourself budget for
lots of expense.

Don't even think of buying one if you can't fix it yourself and you
don't know a good local independant mechanic with V12 experience.
Otherwise you'll pay for him to learn.

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jjmitro@gmail.com - 24 Dec 2004 01:13 GMT
any more help ?  I looking to buy a BMW 750 or 740
bfd - 24 Dec 2004 01:17 GMT
Agree with what John Burns states. In fact, the 750i shares the same
engine with the E31 850i and here's what arguably "the" E31 expert,
Paul Michael Brown, says about that car and the same advice can be used
for the 750:

"in my view, it's a mistake to think that you can buy an E31 and sell
it later for more than you paid. On the contrary, you'll spend serious
money to get the car sorted out, serious money to maintain it
thereafter and you'll take a big depreciation hit when you sell it.

Now if your finances are such that you can afford a purchase price of

$17-22K, plus $2,500 - $5,000 per year in upkeep without losing
sleep.....

If the cost of ownership doesn't scare you off and you still want to
own an E31, the smart choice is to buy a well-maintained example from a
private owner who can provide you with a stack of service records.
Absolutely, positively DO NOT BUY a cheap E31 from a used car dealer
without knowing who has owned the car in the past or how it has been
maintained. Those are the cars that cost $15K to buy, but $10K to
maintain in their first year. You are FAR better off searching the
country for an
E31 being offered for sale by an owner who could afford to maintain it
correctly and who can prove that to you with service records.

If you find an 850i with good service records, look to see if the big
ticket repairs have been performed: water pump, fan clutch, DK motors,
brake pressure accumulator, front end bushings etc., intake manifold
gasket, shocks & struts. It's rare to find a car that has had *all*
these things fixed. (The intake manifold gasket seems to last forever
on some cars, for example.) But a car with several of these repairs
should command a premium because you probably won't have to do them
again unless you own the car for a very long time and drive the hell
out of it.

Then look for certain routine maintenance that is vitally important on
E31: cooling system flush and fill; autobox flush and fill (use of
Mobil 1
ATF a big plus); rear differential lube change (again, synthetic gear
lube a plus); brake fluid replacement. Also note that the E31 has a
central
hydraulic system. Look to see if the CHF fluid and filter have been
changed. Lots of owners never do this and as a result the hydraulic
system
often needs repair. Don't forget mundane items like the batteries.
There are two in the trunk and a fastidious owner will have replaced
them with
quality Interstate models. Check the onboard computer display for dead
pixels. A car with a new unit and a good display should command a
premium.
Exercise the power seats and the sunroof. Often these items have minor
faults. The repair is fairly simple, but you can tell a lot about an
owner
by how well he keeps up with the small stuff. Finally, look for a
recent Inspection II. If it's been awhile, you should budget at least
$2,500 to get one done right after purchase.
jjmitro@gmail.com - 24 Dec 2004 13:48 GMT
I am looking to buy this car.
Last year I replaced the two ECM motors (which run the engine), the
fuel filters, brakes (all four with rotors), windshield wiper pumps,
alternator, starter, and various hoses and serpentine belt.  This car
runs extremely quiet and the transmission is smooth as silk.  It was
also fully tuned up last year and has lots of power.
does it seem to well maintained
jjmitro@gmail.com - 24 Dec 2004 13:48 GMT
I am looking to buy this car.
Last year I replaced the two ECM motors (which run the engine), the
fuel filters, brakes (all four with rotors), windshield wiper pumps,
alternator, starter, and various hoses and serpentine belt.  This car
runs extremely quiet and the transmission is smooth as silk.  It was
also fully tuned up last year and has lots of power.
does it seem to well maintained
ThaDriver - 26 Dec 2004 01:47 GMT
>Don't forget mundane items like the batteries.
There are two in the trunk and a fastidious owner will have replaced
them with
quality Interstate models.
********
Interstate batteries are JUNK!!!
I had one that went bad & they refused to even pro-rate it.
It's the ONLY battery I've ever seen GO BAD in the middle of a NASCAR race
- & it was on the INTERSTATE BATTERY SPONSORED CAR!!!
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
Trey - 26 Dec 2004 02:57 GMT
>> Don't forget mundane items like the batteries.
> There are two in the trunk and a fastidious owner will have replaced
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

The battery in my car died, went to Kragen and got a new one. Then the whole
car died for about six months. The brand new battery then drained and died.
When we got the car running again, I took the dead battery to kragen, adn
they gave me a new one, no problem!
Somebody - 26 Dec 2004 23:23 GMT
> >Don't forget mundane items like the batteries.
> There are two in the trunk and a fastidious owner will have replaced
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> ~ Paul
> aka "Tha Driver"

Ease off on the egg nogg my friend, at least while you're posting.

-Russ.
ThaDriver - 27 Dec 2004 02:00 GMT
>> Interstate batteries are JUNK!!!
>> I had one that went bad & they refused to even pro-rate it.
>> It's the ONLY battery I've ever seen GO BAD in the middle of a NASCAR race
>> - & it was on the INTERSTATE BATTERY SPONSORED CAR!!!
>> ~ Paul
>> aka "Tha Driver"

>Ease off on the egg nogg my friend, at least while you're posting.
-Russ.
********
No nog for me - heck I couldn't afford any alchohol even if I wanted
it...
Nope: the above *is* true (about the batteries).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
Dori A Schmetterling - 27 Dec 2004 12:31 GMT
Really?...even though it's so cheap in America...

DAS
Signature

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]
> No nog for me - heck I couldn't afford any alchohol even if I wanted
> it...
[...]
Somebody - 27 Dec 2004 15:20 GMT
> Really?...even though it's so cheap in America...

Makes you wonder what he's doing in a BMW group if he can't afford egg nogg.
Public access PC at the library?

-Russ.
ThaDriver - 01 Jan 2005 19:46 GMT
>> Really?...even though it's so cheap in America...

>Makes you wonder what he's doing in a BMW group if he can't afford egg nogg.
Public access PC at the library?
********
Well I have no income at the present, & can't work full time at the
occupation that I spent 30 years doing - autobody (customs &
restorations). It's *why* I can't work full time anymore, for more than a
couple months straight: that 30 years *completely* wore out my joints,
back, knees, etc. I have some '78 & '79 320i parts for sale & *had* a 320i
to drive. May get it back soon if the guy dosen't finnish paying for it...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
Somebody - 27 Dec 2004 15:19 GMT
> >> Interstate batteries are JUNK!!!
> >> I had one that went bad & they refused to even pro-rate it.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> ~ Paul
> aka "Tha Driver"

See the thing is I couldn't figure out the last bit whatsoever... sounds
like you were saying that Bobby Labonte had a battery failure in the middle
of a race and that wasa the only one you'd ever seen.  So I was trying to
figure out if you simply have a bad memory, have only seen 1 race, or what.
Because that has little to zero relevance in selecting a battery for your
street car.

And you're the only one I've ever heard of that couldn't get pro rating --
find a new dealer, not a new battery brand.  Unless you damaged it or
something like that.

-Russ.
ThaDriver - 01 Jan 2005 19:40 GMT
>See the thing is I couldn't figure out the last bit whatsoever... sounds
like you were saying that Bobby Labonte had a battery failure in the
middle
of a race and that wasa the only one you'd ever seen.  So I was trying to
figure out if you simply have a bad memory, have only seen 1 race, or
what.
Because that has little to zero relevance in selecting a battery for your
street car.

And you're the only one I've ever heard of that couldn't get pro rating
--

find a new dealer, not a new battery brand.  Unless you damaged it or
something like that.
***********
I don't catch every race (especially since I can no longer afford Direct
TV), but the only battery *failure* I've ever seen was on Labonte's car.
Don't need a new dealer; I'll never buy another one.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
Alex - 29 Dec 2004 19:58 GMT
OK now I'm worried...

Found a 1 owner 750iL 1990 120,00 miles.  But after a visit to:
http://www.my750.com
I'm starting to worry that this model could be the ultimate money pit.

Are these types of occurances common?

I understand that cars need maintenance, and that exotic machinery is more
expensive that garden variety parts.  However, a lot of the mentioned
failures would not be tolerated in a base model el cheapo car.  A water pump
for a V12 would cost more than a pump for a chevrolet.  However, shouldn't
outlast a yugo for that price?

Best regards,

Alex
bfd - 29 Dec 2004 20:47 GMT
Is this a troll? Let's see, you found a website where over 200 people
have commented on how horribly expensive it cost to maintain a 750i.
Yet, for some reason, you're still *wondering* whether these types of
occurances are common?

Further, you know the cost of a 750i water pump is expensive. However,
despite its cost, you think it should outlast a yugo! Amazing. My
thoughts are you deserve to get a 750i. Hey, *maybe* you'll be one of
the "lucky ones" and get a good one.....
Alex - 29 Dec 2004 21:01 GMT
Sorry, not trolling...

I would imagine that almost any model of vehicle has 200 unsatisfied owners.

I was/am wondering if it is representative of the owners as a whole.  (Did
the site owner only get complaints, or only posted complaints.)  I was/am
trying to find out if he was fairly representing the vehicle.

And yes, I do think that a BMW water pump should outlast a Yugo water pump.
I don't have a problem with higher cost.  But I do have a problem if it is
lower quality and higher cost.  Am I wrong for expecting higher quality for
much higher dollars?

Bottom line...  If the site fairly represents the car, then it should be
avoided.  If not, then the choice is still viable.

Best regards,

Alex
fbloogyudsr - 29 Dec 2004 23:10 GMT
> I was/am wondering if it is representative of the owners as a whole.  (Did
> the site owner only get complaints, or only posted complaints.)  I was/am
> trying to find out if he was fairly representing the vehicle.

Although I have seen many posts from people that love their 750iL's and
850i's, most of those same people complain about the maintenance costs.
The 5L V12 is essentially two 2.5L sixes married together.  They have
two of everything (ECUs included), which make engine repairs very expensive.
The cars themselves have complicated and extensive electronics systems.
The parts (including the water pump) are stock BMW items which seem,
in general, to be designed for about 100-150K miles service lifetimes.  It
would be prohibitively expensive for BMW to design and build (have built)
special pumps and such for such a low volume car.

> And yes, I do think that a BMW water pump should outlast a Yugo water
> pump.
> I don't have a problem with higher cost.  But I do have a problem if it is
> lower quality and higher cost.  Am I wrong for expecting higher quality
> for
> much higher dollars?

The problem is that you seem to be equating $x = Quality(x) and $2x =
2*Quality(x).  This is not correct.  Quality and performance follow non-
linear functions.  They both are geometric/exponential curves:  the quality
(and performance) vs. dollar curve doesn't get you twice the quality for
twice the price.  And the quality also is only statistically valid if looked
at as bell curves:  one for all cars and one for the 750iL.

Floyd
GRL - 30 Dec 2004 04:53 GMT
What's there to fascinate you? They are just two in-line sixes or two V6's
cobbled together. In aviation engines it makes sense (since the pots are so
big otherwise), but in the case of street cars it's just a silly
complication of something that does not benefit from the complicating.

Have mid-engine cars fascinated you, too? If yes, you are in luck. Get an
early Acura NSX and enjoy a fine exotic with excellent reliability and
comfort.

With the 750, you are just looking for trouble to no real benefit.

- GRL

> For whatever reason, V12 engines have fascinaed me since I was a kid.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Alex
Boy Howdy - 16 Dec 2005 08:33 GMT
(Clearing throat) That's two in-line sixes, not two v-sixes... (duhhh)
there is a difference. It's like having two engines....  no benefit in
that! I can see that you have never driven one.... what's there to
facinate you? How would YOU know? Bet you've never been within 50 feet
of one; thanks SO much for the advice. Blow the doors off your Acura
"exotic"... LOL

Maybe you were looking for alt.autos.acura and got here by mistake...
don't let the screen door hit you in the a.s on the way out.

No whiners!

Buy the 750
drive it like you stole it
fix it when it breaks
and always remember
it's a GODDAMN BMW
feel sorry for all the other drivers
and their sad a.s rides
life is short
and you can't take it with you
nothing good in life is free
and if anything lasted forever
it would be ultimately boring
put on some Rammstein
crank it up
floor it
& tell me I'm wrong

> What's there to fascinate you? They are just two in-line sixes or two V6's
> cobbled together. In aviation engines it makes sense (since the pots are so
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> - GRL

Signature

Boy Howdy
'94 750il black on black

John Burns - 16 Dec 2005 11:16 GMT
> Buy the 750
> drive it like you stole it
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> floor it
> & tell me I'm wrong

Nice attitude and good taste in music ;-) Couldn't agree more.

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Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)  
Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web  : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html
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nopcbs - 31 Dec 2005 03:32 GMT
Ah, I see that you are operating in the rhelm of the irrational. My
apologies for intruding in your day dream.

- GRL
 
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