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Car Forum / BMW Cars / February 200597 528i for 11K
Folks, I have had six Bimmers and currently own a 83 633CSi. And why did I sell the 73 2002 tii? My 16 yod daughter is the poster child for a Stepford child and I am looking at a 97 528i w/ 137K mls for her (God I wish my father had been so good or I had been such a good kid). Anything in particular I should be aware of? The transmission seems to have some problems...chunky crap at start off on occasion. Needs pads and rotors, fluid changout and a timing belt. They want an asking price of $11,800. My thoughts are for offering $8500. Ideas? > The transmission seems to have some problems...chunky crap at start off on > occasion. Needs pads and rotors, fluid changout and a timing belt. They > want an asking price of $11,800. Timing belt? I thought all the I6 e39s had chains?  SignatureGrunff > > The transmission seems to have some problems...chunky crap at start off on > > occasion. Needs pads and rotors, fluid changout and a timing belt. They [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Grunff Thanks for the info on the chain vs. the belt. Anything else about the 97 528i that might jump up and bite me? > Anything else about the 97 528i that might jump up and bite me? Worn front suspension bushes. Check for wheel wobble at about 60. Rear anti-roll bar links. Heater motor speed resistor - check fan works properly. Aux cooling fan- should run when AC switched on. But non of these will break the bank. Generally, a pretty reliable car. Signature*Don't use no double negatives * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. <The transmission seems to have some problems...chunky crap at start off on occasion. > BMW states that the transmission fluid in these cars is "lifetime". Bet the tranny fluid in this car has never been changed. Since the car has 137K on it, expect the tranny will need replacing soon. Price one and lower your offer accordingly.... > The transmission seems to have some problems...chunky crap at start off > on occasion. Needs pads and rotors, fluid changout and a timing belt. > They want an asking price of $11,800. Tat's a worry. No E39 uses a timing belt - they're all chains. Signature*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. The E39 528 would make a great used buy - for you. However, it's not quite the same as used cars from "our early days". Repairs and maintenance can consume a lot more than the concept of "student's cars" of yore. Unless you or your daughter is good with a wrench and OBD II diagnostics you may end up paying for a lot of worn parts and fixes that the current owner may be hoping to pass on to the next buyer. Don't buy a used car for your kid that already has problems. If the problem were simple to fix the previous owner would have fixed it already. The 528 is really part of the current maintenance model for BMWs - lots of electronics and exacting tolerances. It's not like an old clunker that won't bother you if you detect a few imperfections with it. They will bother your daughter. The ideal used car for a youngster is one that is very tolerant of wear and tear and allows the youngster to try their hand at fixing or at least learn a relatively inexpensive lessons about driving, car maintenance and out-of-warranty part replacement costs. IMO, the 528 is bit too complex and a bit big for a first car. > The ideal used car for a youngster is one that is very tolerant of wear > and tear and allows the youngster to try their hand at fixing or at > least learn a relatively inexpensive lessons about driving, car > maintenance and out-of-warranty part replacement costs. IMO, the 528 > is bit too complex and a bit big for a first car. In the UK it would be ruled out by the cost of insurance for a young driver - very likely as much as the car itself. Wonder why things are obviously different in the US? Signature*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> The ideal used car for a youngster is one that is very tolerant of >> wear [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > are > obviously different in the US? They are not. I would suggest that Dad do some insurance pricing before he buys daughter the bimmer. Between that and the likely maintenance costs, I'm pretty sure there would be a better car for his little girl. BTW - I have been pretty lucky with SAABs for my 2 girls. Safe cars. Low insurance costs. They depreciate fast so PO has paid the huge depreciation already and they are relatively cheap. But I do all of the maintenance (even relatively major stuff) myself. YMMV -Fred W > > In the UK it would be ruled out by the cost of insurance for a young > > driver - very likely as much as the car itself. Wonder why things > > are > > obviously different in the US? > They are not. I would suggest that Dad do some insurance pricing > before he buys daughter the bimmer. Between that and the likely > maintenance costs, I'm pretty sure there would be a better car for his > little girl. > BTW - I have been pretty lucky with SAABs for my 2 girls. Safe cars. > Low insurance costs. They depreciate fast so PO has paid the huge > depreciation already and they are relatively cheap. But I do all of > the maintenance (even relatively major stuff) myself. In the UK, even a 'safe' car like a SAAB or Volvo would still be prohibitive to insure for a young person. Unless wealthy, they've be looking at the smallest cars of around 1 litre. Signature*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> > In the UK it would be ruled out by the cost of insurance for a >> > young [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > prohibitive to insure for a young person. Unless wealthy, they've be > looking at the smallest cars of around 1 litre. Perhaps there is where our insurance differs. The insurance liability rates (I wouldn't bother with collision and comprehensive on cheap cars) are dependant both on the driver *and* the car being insured. The difference between a SAAB 9000cse and a Honda Civic is the SAAB is cheaper because it is a safer car. Fewer and smaller medical claims. -Fred W > > The ideal used car for a youngster is one that is very tolerant of wear > > and tear and allows the youngster to try their hand at fixing or at [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > driver - very likely as much as the car itself. Wonder why things are > obviously different in the US? Checked w/ our insurance agent and it has changed so that a new driver is charged the same HIGH fee whether they drive a Yugo or a Benz. Go figure. PS High fee is $1800/yr > > In the UK it would be ruled out by the cost of insurance for a young > > driver - very likely as much as the car itself. Wonder why things are > > obviously different in the US? > Checked w/ our insurance agent and it has changed so that a new driver is > charged the same HIGH fee whether they drive a Yugo or a Benz. > Go figure. > PS High fee is $1800/yr Could easily be 2000 gbp + a year for a new young driver on the very smallest cheapest car. With no collision cover - ie, you'd pay for the damage to your car yourself if at blame. On a Merc, it might be impossible to obtain cover at any cost. Signature*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > Could easily be 2000 gbp + a year for a new young driver on the very > smallest cheapest car. With no collision cover - ie, you'd pay for the > damage to your car yourself if at blame. When I was 23 I bought my first BMW, a 1988 316. This was in 1991. I was living in a good area insurance wise (Aberdeen) with a clean licence but it still cost me 1400+ GBP a year to insure. Currently paying about a tenth of that for my E30 318iS. SignatureWho needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html >> > The ideal used car for a youngster is one that is very tolerant >> > of wear [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > PS High fee is $1800/yr Wow. Where is that? I don't pay that much for my 18 y/o son. -Fred W > > Checked w/ our insurance agent and it has changed so that a new > > driver is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > PS High fee is $1800/yr > Wow. Where is that? I don't pay that much for my 18 y/o son. You might like to have a play with a UK online quote insurance company to see just how well off you are. Use my post code which is for just outside Central London, so not the cheapest area. ;-) It's SW12 8HN. The URL below is for Direct Line - one of the largest UK insurance companies, and quite competitive. http://www.directline.com/ Signature*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > "Michael" <michael-nooospppammmmsan@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message > > > > PS High fee is $1800/yr > > Wow. Where is that? I don't pay that much for my 18 y/o son. Piedmont NC Drops by half (no problems of course) after 12 months and then by another half after the second 12 months. >> "Michael" <michael-nooospppammmmsan@worldnet.att.net> wrote in >> message [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > another > half after the second 12 months. Ah, OK. Yes, I would think that NC would be a low risk area. And to the UK contingent, in the famous words of the infamous prior US President: <whiney voice> "I feel you're pain" </whiney voice> -Fred W > The E39 528 would make a great used buy - for you. However, it's not > quite the same as used cars from "our early days". Repairs and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > maintenance and out-of-warranty part replacement costs. IMO, the 528 > is bit too complex and a bit big for a first car. My feelings match your statements. My first preference for a new driver is a Volvo. Handling isn't in the same league but crash survivability is higher. I've been in wrecks in two Volvos and four BMW's, and sorry to say but a Volvo is a tank in a wreck. The BMW's are much more able to avoid wrecks due to their superior handling but can a sixteen year old avail themselves of that ability? and they seem to have soooo much more electrocrap on them now. The passenger side mirror dips automatically when you put the car in reverse...what is that BS? my BMW history 1973 2002 tii (why oh why did I sell this car?) 1974 2002 (totaled New Year's eve 1976, tequila was involved) 1976 2002 1982 or 81? 325e (big mistake) 198? 528i (rock solid workhorse) 1983 633 Csi w/ a five speed (they don't come much prettier), current garage car. Obviously I like the old ones. All the techno crap on this 97 scares me just a bit. Thanks to all for the input and advice. Daily drive is a 97 960 Volvo w/ 205k on the odo. > The passenger side mirror dips automatically when > you put the car in reverse...what is that BS? Very useful when parallel parking - maybe more a Euro thing? But you can disable it, of course. Signature*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. Yeah, helps prevent curb rash on your alloy rims and running over the odd drunken elf lying in the gutter. The newer cars all seem have "where the hell's the rear-end?" visibility. "Michael" <michael-nooospppammmmsan@worldnet.att.net> wrote > "Michael Low" <metrocomm@ca.inter.net> wrote >... The passenger side mirror dips automatically when > you put the car in reverse...what is that BS? Put the selector switch to the passenger side and it won't do it. We had a discussion (rant) about this feature a couple of years ago. But you know what? I have found it very useful in avoiding curb rash. Floyd > My feelings match your statements. My first preference for a new driver is > a Volvo. Handling isn't in the same league but crash survivability is > higher. I've been in wrecks in two Volvos and four BMW's, and sorry to say > but a Volvo is a tank in a wreck. OK -- Two non-BMW suggestions: Mercedes diesel, W123 or W126 chassis. Want a tank? Plus, lots of low-end torque for tooling around town. You're unlikely to find one without an oil leak, but they're usually fixable if you have the patience to track it down. NO electronics. No ignition. Keep oil in the crankcase and it'll go forever. Downside: A decent specimen might requre a little suspension freshening. Primitive stability/SRS stuff. 1995-2000 Mazda Millenia. Great chick car. Stylish. With traction control, ABS and a set of Nokians for the snow it drives itself. Competes nicely with my '87 Audi 4000 quattro as the most stable foul-weather car I have ever driven...but it's been far more trouble free than the Audi. The used models are real orphans, so they depreciate massively -- but, find one with 50K miles, treat it right and it'll go another 150K. Check Consumer Reports reliability ratings. After all, this car is for a young woman, not a gearhead. The car is not a rollerskate -- curb weight is about 3200 lbs. Downside: Internet parts jobbers have little for this car outside of tuneup parts. KYB is about the only source of aftermarket shocks. Not the kind of car given to "upgrades." > 1983 633 Csi w/ a five speed (they don't come much prettier), current garage > car. I've got an '83 6er too. Black/black. New Mexico was not kind to the clearcoat Wife likes it, though. 105K on the odo. Russ M >1995-2000 Mazda Millenia. Great chick car. Stylish. With traction control, >ABS and a set of Nokians for the snow it drives itself. Competes nicely >with my '87 Audi 4000 quattro as the most stable foul-weather car I have >ever driven...but it's been far more trouble free than the Audi. The used >models are real orphans, so they depreciate massively These are bargain cars if you don't mind the fact they're FWD and quite boring to drive. They are built very well - check out the suspension. > 1995-2000 Mazda Millenia. Great chick car. Stylish. With traction control, > ABS and a set of Nokians for the snow it drives itself. Competes nicely [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reliability ratings. After all, this car is for a young woman, not a > gearhead. I'll look into that idea...sounds good. > > 1983 633 Csi w/ a five speed (they don't come much prettier), current > garage > > car. > > > I've got an '83 6er too. Black/black. New Mexico was not kind to the > clearcoat Wife likes it, though. 105K on the odo. Mine is burgundy w/ tan inside. Goes like a scalded dog when required. Had it repainted a few years ago when my wife started wincing when I wanted to drive it to church. "Michael" <michael-nooospppammmmsan@worldnet.att.net> haute in die Tasten: > The passenger side mirror dips automatically when > you put the car in reverse...what is that BS? It is a very practical feature for maneuvering the car into a narrow european parking gap. It allows you to see the kerb without having to move the mirror. My 1994 Citroen Xantia also has that feature. I do not know how it is managed in the BMW, but in my Citroen, I can adjust the mirror in normal position and in reverse position (reverse gear engaged). When I choose to adjust the mirror similar in both positions, it will not move when you put the car in reverse. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance > "Michael" <michael-nooospppammmmsan@worldnet.att.net> haute in die > Tasten: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > european parking gap. It allows you to see the kerb without having to > move the mirror. Ah yes, I remember curbs...something seen in Europe and Northern American cities. Unless it is an old AND traditional southern city they don't exist. They're sloped so the idiots don't trash their tires and wheels. > Ah yes, I remember curbs...something seen in Europe and Northern American > cities. > Unless it is an old AND traditional southern city they don't exist. > They're sloped so the idiots don't trash their tires and wheels. Doesn't this just encourage parking on the pavement (sidewalk)? Signature*Work is for people who don't know how to fish. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > Ah yes, I remember curbs...something seen in Europe and Northern American > > cities. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Doesn't this just encourage parking on the pavement (sidewalk)? Not to mention knocking down the parking meters...got those little puppies? I don't remember seeing any in either the UK or Europe. My wife will simply pass up a parking slot to avoid parallel parking. Most Americans can't parallel park worth a flip. > > > Unless it is an old AND traditional southern city they don't exist. > > > They're sloped so the idiots don't trash their tires and wheels. > > > > Doesn't this just encourage parking on the pavement (sidewalk)? > Not to mention knocking down the parking meters...got those little > puppies? I don't remember seeing any in either the UK or Europe. There were, but parking areas on a road where you buy a ticket from a machine are more popular now. More efficient use of the space, and one ticket machine can serve several such bays. > My wife will simply pass up a parking slot to avoid parallel parking. > Most Americans can't parallel park worth a flip. Of course in most UK cities the roads ain't wide enough for nose in parking. Or any parking at all, come to that. ;-) Signature*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. "Michael" > Most Americans can't parallel park worth a flip. I used to work in an office which looked out over the parking spaces in the street below, and I can tell you that most Brit's can't parallel park worth a flip. :-) > "Michael" >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the street below, and I can tell you that most Brit's can't > parallel park worth a flip. :-) and what the hell is "worth a flip" anyway? Must be like "worth a sh.t" in 'merican. I guess the Brits are flippin' sh.t? :-) --Fred W >> "Michael" >>> >>> Most Americans can't parallel park worth a flip. >> I used to work in an office which looked out over the parking spaces >> in the street below, and I can tell you that most Brit's can't >> parallel park worth a flip. :-) >> >and what the hell is "worth a flip" anyway? In the US, "Flip" is a derogatory term for a Filipino, but I don't think that the value of one of those has anything to do with parallel parking. IMHFO, fewer and fewer people these days in the US or the UK have any awareness at all of the geometry of vehicle wheels and what that means for driving one. I am almost at the point where I've got over it. There's nothing you can do about it, resistance is futile. We are faced with a future on the roads where things like women driving SUVs while on cell phones or doing their makeup and who cannot use their turn signals because they don't have a free hand to do so are considered normal. It is starting to be accepted and I, for one, have learned that I must accept it. The idiots have won. We must accept it and move on. SignatureDan Drake Dan Drake <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> haute in die Tasten: > We are faced with a future on the roads where things like women > driving SUVs while on cell phones or doing their makeup and who cannot > use their turn signals because they don't have a free hand to do so > are considered normal. Some women do not need an SUV to behave like Idiots. Today I was buying some vegetables at a vegetables stand in a residential area, and I was going back to my car, when suddenly a blonde woman drove her E60 touring with the nose on the sidewalk. The car stood there in a 45 degree ankle to the kerbline, which was annoying, because currently we have masses of frozen snow piling up near the sidewalk so that you have to watch your step. She stood there with her car, blocking the sidewalk almost entirely, engine running and stuffed around in her handbag. So I gently knocked on the fender of the car to make her take notice of me. She looked at me, and I told her to give way. She said, "no I just need a moment to buy some veggies", shut off the engine and left the car. The parking gap which the car occupied, was large enough to park away the car correctly, but obviously she was too stupid and too lazy to do it. Okay, I could pass by, but when I passed the scene two minutes later with my car, I saw two women with strollers who simply could not get through. I opened the windows and said to them "Okay, go ahead, kick some dents in the car. The lady is down there buying some food, and she's too lazy to store away her car properly!" Don't know if they followed my advice, but dumb sluts like her are the reason why many people think bad about BMW drivers. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance Here Here... My BIGGEST pet peeve is idiots who can't park properly... like parking too close to you car... I know they had to have hit my car with their door to get out... I just silently get into my car, while protecting my door with my keys in my hand ;-) If they happen to scratch their car, oh well... they parked to close and I'm sure hit my car... Deep > Dan Drake <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> haute in die Tasten: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Citroen - Made in Trance "Michael" <michael-nooospppammmmsan@worldnet.att.net> haute in die Tasten: > Not to mention knocking down the parking meters...got those little > puppies? I don't remember seeing any in either the UK or Europe. We used to have them in large numbers in Germany, until the administration realised that mainenance and collecting the money is too expensive. Now we either have a sign saying that you are allowed to park here for one hour, and every car owner has a so called "parking disc" in his car, a thing made out of cardboard which you can set to the arrival time. See picture here: http://www.spektraldruck-bodamer.de/pd_images/parkscheibe.jpg Or we have an automatic vendor machine which sells you (ridiculously priced) parking vouchers. One hour parking in downtown city of Munich costs you three dollars. Without guard or security of course. Frank > My wife will simply pass up a parking slot to avoid parallel parking. > Most Americans can't parallel park worth a flip. Being able to parallel park is mandatory in Germany to pass the drivers license practical test. But many people who do not live in large cities do not have many practise in this. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance 1) We have kerbs. Not 'curbs'. I would like to curb my appetite, however, to reduce weight... :-) 2) Because of camber the angle between the road service and the kerb's vertical face may be slightly less than 90 degrees. Horrible. I put it to one of my local councillor that we should have sloped kerbstones but I was told this could not be done because it would result in an unsightly mix and mess. (They would not replace all of the sound ones.) Because that is so obvious I emphasized that this can be done when a whole block is being redone (rare) or a new road section built (even rarer in central London)... I got agreement but no promise of action ... :-( I have seen the more sensible sloped kerbstones elsewhere. And yes, my wheel hubs are scratched and scored, like those of may other people's cars... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Ah yes, I remember curbs...something seen in Europe and Northern American > cities. > > Unless it is an old AND traditional southern city they don't exist. > They're > sloped so the idiots don't trash their tires and wheels. > > The 528 is really part of the current maintenance model for BMWs - lots > > of electronics and exacting tolerances. It's not like an old clunker [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > maintenance and out-of-warranty part replacement costs. IMO, the 528 > > is bit too complex and a bit big for a first car. I tend to agree. > My feelings match your statements. My first preference for a new driver is > a Volvo. Handling isn't in the same league but crash survivability is > higher. I've been in wrecks in two Volvos and four BMW's, and sorry to say > but a Volvo is a tank in a wreck. The BMW's are much more able to avoid > wrecks due to their superior handling but can a sixteen year old avail > themselves of that ability? Well, there are a few children of BMW CCA club members I know who are *excellent* in terms of that ability. The reason is simple: we train them. Doesn't matter whether they're driving an M3 or a Cavalier; we can teach them what their car is able to do and how *they* can do it. There is the BMW CCA Foundation's "Street Survivor" school for teens that appears in various places around the country as well as a number of local-chapter-sponsored handling schools for *anyone* offering nearly the same training. If you've never been through this kind of formal training yourself, take one *with her*. You'll both love it. [If you end up with a Volvo for her, we can show her what it will do. Having owned and sold Volvos, I know they're remarkable handlers for having a solid axle rear.] > my BMW history > 1973 2002 tii (why oh why did I sell this car?) Because they rust. Don't ask me how I know. > 1982 or 81? 325e (big mistake) Had to be an '84, at least. > 198? 528i (rock solid workhorse) '80 or '81; last of the E12s. If you liked it, you'd *love* an E28 ('82-'88 5 Series). So why don't you track down a 528e for her? You can get them in excellent shape for ~$4-5K and quite serviceable ones are around for ~$2K. Not all that old; well known and simple quirks that even a fumblethumbs like me can fix. Parts readily available and relatively cheap. > 1983 633 Csi w/ a five speed (they don't come much prettier) Unless you like 4-doors. OTOH, if you're as intimate with this one as I think you may be, you'd probably be delighted to find essentially the same mechanicals (and many identical *parts*) underneath the '83-'88 533 and 535. OK; so I'm biased. I've got an '88 535is (my third 535is and fourth E28). I love it for all the same reasons you loved all of yours. > Obviously I like the old ones. All the techno crap on this 97 scares me > just a bit. So run away. Hit ebay for an E28 and then we'll get you all the links to the great E28 community. -- C.R. Krieger This man is absolutely correct. A better bet is a nice used Camry, Accord, or Corolla. Something very unlikely to be breaking all the time and leave them stranded and/or with a fat repair bill. Come to think of it, 1st generation LS400's are in your price range and are extremely reliable cars. - GRL > The E39 528 would make a great used buy - for you. However, it's not > quite the same as used cars from "our early days". Repairs and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > maintenance and out-of-warranty part replacement costs. IMO, the 528 > is bit too complex and a bit big for a first car. |
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