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Car Forum / BMW Cars / February 2005Auto tranny reliability on non-BMWs?
Anyone care to comment on how reliable other makes of car's autoboxes are after 100-150k miles? I know that many other makes share the same boxes as BMWs but I'm curious to know how Japanese and other euro makes compare. There seems to be a perception that the five speed auto boxes are an accident waiting to happen after 120-150k. Not helped by the whole "lifetime fluid" thing. Is this a myth or near to the truth? What %age are dying? I had a dead ZF 4HP22 in my 635 many years ago at 150k, but that was mainly due to lack of fluid changes by previous owners I suspect. I have an old 525e with 182k on it's auto, I strongly suspect it's seen few fluid changes too. But for the moment it's fine. The question is, are the current automatics a liability?  SignatureWho needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html I also heard horror stories about the suto tranny and have read many posts on the subject. I have a 1993 325i with an auto tranny and it is doing quite well. It has 174k on it and runs well. My father, the previous owner changed the fluid every 15 to20k miles. Then again, my friend who has a 92 325i also with an auto tranny was more faithful in fluid changes and is on his third one. I know worst case scenario, I pay $900 for a used one at bavauto. > Anyone care to comment on how reliable other makes of car's autoboxes > are after 100-150k miles? I know that many other makes share the same [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > fluid changes too. But for the moment it's fine. The question is, are > the current automatics a liability? You didn't mention the mileage of the two cars, nor how they were driven. My 1987 325is had 120K miles on it and the tranny was flawless before I wrecked it (lost 2nd trying to extricate the car from deep mud during an "emergency"). Had that fixed and it was flawless again till 2 years ago. >I also heard horror stories about the suto tranny and have read many posts >on the subject. I have a 1993 325i with an auto tranny and it is doing [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> fluid changes too. But for the moment it's fine. The question is, are >> the current automatics a liability? > Anyone care to comment on how reliable other makes of car's autoboxes > are after 100-150k miles? I know that many other makes share the same > boxes as BMWs but I'm curious to know how Japanese and other euro > makes compare. IMO *all* automatic transmissions are time bombs. Some last half a million miles or more, but there's no telling if/when they go boom. Some models are probably better than others. Driving habits and maintenance may make a difference too. But there's always an element of risk. This is one reason I stick to the stick. Resale prices of high mileage cars suggest I'm not the only one who thinks this way either -- manuals do fetch higher prices, and the difference increases with mileage. Matt O. > IMO *all* automatic transmissions are time bombs. As is every part of a car. Nothing lasts forever. > Some last half a million miles or more, but there's no telling if/when > they go boom. Some models are probably better than others. Driving > habits and maintenance may make a difference too. But there's always an > element of risk. As there is with a manual transmission - most will suffer weakening of the synchromesh at the same sort of miles. > This is one reason I stick to the stick. Resale > prices of high mileage cars suggest I'm not the only one who thinks this > way either -- manuals do fetch higher prices, and the difference > increases with mileage. This tends to be the opposite in the UK with 'luxury' cars - manuals are rare and marked down. And even small autos will command a premium on the secondhand market. The thing is an auto has several clutches and these *will* wear out. Same as any clutch. Whether regular oil changes help I've no real idea - it's very difficult to get accurate comparisons, as someone who changes oil more frequently than the service requirement might also be a more sensitive driver. My own personal experience of many different makes of auto says 150,000 miles is about it - if you must put a figure on it. However, older purely hydraulic designs were certainly fixable by a decent DIYer - and provided large savings as the majority of the cost of overhaul is labour. Not sure about a modern 5 speed, though. :-) Signature*OK, so what's the speed of dark? * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. "John Burns" : > Anyone care to comment on how reliable other makes of car's autoboxes > are after 100-150k miles? I know that many other makes share the same > boxes as BMWs but I'm curious to know how Japanese and other euro makes > compare. A friend of mine had to replace twice his automatic gearbox on a 1999 or 2000 Audi A6 2.7 bi-turbo. And this happened before 100,000 kilometers! Afterwards he sold the car and bought a new VW Touareg. SignatureBest regards. Giovanni Tarantino Bevaix (NE) Switzerland 1997 Audi A4 2.8 Q 237,000 km (146,000 miles) 1997 BMW 535i 235,000 km (145,000 miles) > "John Burns" : > > Anyone care to comment on how reliable other makes of car's autoboxes > > are after 100-150k miles? I know that many other makes share the same > > boxes as BMWs but I'm curious to know how Japanese and other euro makes > > compare. Dunno who makes renault 'boxes but they must surely be the most unreliable. The number being offered for sale with as spares or repair with gearbox problems is quite astonishing. > Dunno who makes renault 'boxes but they must surely be the most > unreliable. They are one of the few makers that make their own - at least for some models. And you're right. ;-) > The number being offered for sale with as spares or repair > with gearbox problems is quite astonishing. Ford CVTs - perhaps all CVTs - aren't far behind. A pal searched the UK for a secondhand one for a '97, and had no luck. The cost of a factory exchange one was the value of the car - even although it was otherwise in good nick. Signature*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. My Merc W124 230E auto gearbox went well for 120 000 miles, when it (the car) was sold. I knew the guy/s who had it -- didn't tell of any problems thereafter. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > My Merc W124 230E auto gearbox went well for 120 000 miles, when it (the > car) was sold. I knew the guy/s who had it -- didn't tell of any > problems thereafter. Merc is one of the few to make their own transmissions - and I'd say they are about as reliable as any. Strange that the US is regarded as the home of the auto - and used to make the best - but seems to have been overtaken by Germany? Signature*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. [...] > There seems to be a perception that the five speed auto boxes are an > accident waiting to happen after 120-150k. Not helped by the whole > "lifetime fluid" thing. Is this a myth or near to the truth? What %age > are dying? My 190k '94 E38 740's tranny seems to be thriving on it's lifetime fill... A SignatureTrade Oil in € > Anyone care to comment on how reliable other makes of car's autoboxes > are after 100-150k miles? I know that many other makes share the same > boxes as BMWs but I'm curious to know how Japanese and other euro makes > compare. Unfortunately, "it all depends". Ford and GM have made some very fine auto boxes. The C6 Ford tranny found in '75-90 trucks is very rugged and almost never go out. The auto in my mom's Olds Cutlass was basically built to fail (well ok, last) somewhere around 100K miles. IMO, the weak point of auto trannies is the planetary gears on the gearsets: the bushings keeping the gears from the carrier are usually too small/ inferior/insufficiently lubricated, etc. If the planetary gears are on a bearing that has a race that keeps it centered, it's quite a different matter. The auto in my Toyota T100 (with 3.4L V6) seems quite tight at 95K, and I have heard few complaints about Toyota transmissions. Auto trannies in '88-91 (or so) Chrysler products were very poorly designed and would fail anywhere from 20K to 100K. Guaranteed. Although a well-designed auto tranny can last as long as any car, they do have many more failure points than a manual. Note that many high-torque cars (note current Mercedes SLK55/AMG efforts) have only auto boxes. Autos can more easily handle large torque loads due to the multiple-contacts of the sun/planetary gearset. Floyd |
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