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Car Forum / BMW Cars / March 20053 yr old New Jersey 330 in Atlanta - rust inevitable?
I am in the process of searching for a 3 series BMW. Looked at leasing a new one -- but the payment was outrageous, so I have been looking at more budget-accommodating 2001 - 2002 330s and 325s. I found a car that I am happy with -- a 2001 330 sedan. The exterior looks good, but I noticed a bit of rust on the brake calipers and lug nuts. When I ran the car fax, I was not surprised to find that the car has spent its life in New Jersey. It has 50K on it and, being a sedan, it's a safe assumption that it was used year round. I am in Atlanta, so there is no snow or road salt to contend with. I took a look under the car, the undercarriage did not look any different from a southern 2001 325 coupe I had seen earlier that day. Do I need to be concerned here? Will any car from New England inevitably rust out due to exposure to salts, even if it is removed from that environment? Any insight would be greatly appreciated -- we get one day of snow here a year, so contending with road salts is not part of my experience. > I am in the process of searching for a 3 series BMW. Looked at leasing > a new one -- but the payment was outrageous, so I have been looking at [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Any insight would be greatly appreciated -- we get one day of snow here > a year, so contending with road salts is not part of my experience. BMWs hold-up well here in the rust belt, BUT if it were me, I'd chose a southern car. Salt is just nasty, gets in everywhere, and corrodes even the best treated metals over time. Why take a rust belt car if you don't have to? >.... I was not surprised to find that the >car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen earlier that day. > >Do I need to be concerned here? Will any car from New England >inevitably rust out due to exposure to salts, even if it is removed >from that environment? My family lives in the Atlanta area, and every one of them knows that New Jersey isn't in New England. 8;) Very rare is the car -- any car -- that doesn't show rust on its brake disks. And next on the "most likely" list -- anywhere -- are the lug nuts. I would not be concerned. I once put 90,000+ miles on a Fiat 124 Spider in NJ with no maintenance problems at all... -- Larry > >.... I was not surprised to find that the > >car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen earlier that day. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -- Larry Thanks for the input. I am a native Atlantan as well -- I am aware of the difference between the mid-Atlantic states and New England.......I have to remind myself from time to time that some of us are self effacing southerners who are always paranoid of being perceived as ignorant by people from other parts of the country.....will be certain to be more careful with my geography next time........ >>>.... I was not surprised to find that the >>>car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > parts of the country.....will be certain to be more careful with my > geography next time........ OK, so NJ isn't NE, but it still snows plenty and they still salt the roads. Sure, it will probably be fine, but why buy a car that's been in the salt if you don't have to? > OK, so NJ isn't NE, but it still snows plenty and they still salt the > roads. Sure, it will probably be fine, but why buy a car that's been in > the salt if you don't have to? Well, given the car is designed in a country where salt is used a fair bit, I'd say it's capable of putting up with it during a normal life? There's certainly an issue with some grey imports of Japanese cars where these are only expected to have a short life and don't have the same degree of corrosion protection as export models. IIRC.  Signature*Filthy stinking rich -- well, two out of three ain't bad Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > OK, so NJ isn't NE, but it still snows plenty and they still salt the > > roads. Sure, it will probably be fine, but why buy a car that's been in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW > To e-mail, change noise into sound. Thanks for all the input. You think it'd be easy to find the right car -- everyone down here drives bimmers -- but I am having a hell of a time finding what I want for a reasonable price. If i buy a certified model from the dealer, I might as well get a new one for what they are asking. Target price is $20K - $24K. What I have been looking at are 2002 325s and 2001 330s. Mileage ranges from 40 - 60K. Have driven a few cars in this price range. Most feel pretty good and look good -- except the tan interiors tend to look pretty beat up with age (have a similar issue with the cream colored leather in my 99 VW). The darker interiors tend to look better with age, but are hard to find. In this price range, I am finding cars at smaller dealers and see they were bought from auctions up north (i.e as i can interpret from the carfax)...hence my question above. I have put some calls in to people selling their cars locally (would be my preference to buy a well maintained car directly from the original owner...thus alleviating my concerns about price, reliability and road salts)....but am not getting calls back....not sure if cars sell quickly or people are just lax... My main concern with this is that these cars are so close to the ground -- and are so complex that i want to make sure I dont have to worry about residual road salt (for lack of a better term) somehow causing problems in the long term.......even if the undercarriage looks ok on the surface.... Good point, though, about the cars being made in Germany. I suppose what I wanted to get a better if rust does do long term damage to these cars up north.....as I plan to keep this car for the long haul..... Oh, also, let me apologize too to my fellow native Atlantan for my snippiness....is just a sore subject....... > Thanks for all the input. You think it'd be easy to find the right car > -- everyone down here drives bimmers -- but I am having a hell of a > time finding what I want for a reasonable price. Sad but Bimmers are not reasonably priced. They are always 20% too high as far as I am concerned. But if you want one, you have to pay the premium. If i buy a certified > model from the dealer, I might as well get a new one for what they are > asking. I agree. Since 2006 brings a new body style, you would think that new 2005's would be attractively discounted. But no. > Target price is $20K - $24K. What I have been looking at are 2002 325s > and 2001 330s. Mileage ranges from 40 - 60K. Have driven a few cars in > this price range. Most feel pretty good and look good -- These cars are probably coming off lease; thus 40,000 miles or a little less is what you could expect for three to four year old cars. > In this price range, I am finding cars at smaller dealers and see they > were bought from auctions up north (i.e as i can interpret from the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > salts)....but am not getting calls back....not sure if cars sell > quickly or people are just lax... At your target price, cars in excellent condition would be snapped up quickly. BTW, I think that 27,000 would be a realistic price for a 330xi automatic with a few packages and in excellent condition bought from a broker or private party. You probably know that there was a model change in 2001, and that there have been only minor changes since then. > My main concern with this is that these cars are so close to the ground > -- and are so complex that i want to make sure I dont have to worry > about residual road salt (for lack of a better term) somehow causing > problems in the long term.......even if the undercarriage looks ok on > the surface.... How long were you planning to keep the car anyway? Although I live in the north (Chicago and Boston) rusting, absent collision damage, has not been a problem for me since about 1984 with any of my cars. Plan B might be to look at a Mercedes C320. Cheaper by 4k, give or take. Other things: make sure your car has a little manufacturers warranty left, just in case. Since you are going into this for the long haul, maybe you might want to buy an extended warranty? Generally, you can only do that while the original BMW warranty is in force. Be patient. Look at a lot of cars. Hope this helps. Rick Rikoski > > Thanks for all the input. You think it'd be easy to find the right car > > -- everyone down here drives bimmers -- but I am having a hell of a > > time finding what I want for a reasonable price. > Sad but Bimmers are not reasonably priced. They are always 20% too high > as far as I am concerned. But if you want one, you have to pay the > premium. When you consider the purchase price you also have to consider the resale value. And the smaller BMWs, in the UK at least, depreciate far less than many 'similar' cars that appear, at first, better value. Signature*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. In article <4d446d68a7dave@davenoise.co.uk>, > When you consider the purchase price you also have to consider the resale > value. And the smaller BMWs, in the UK at least, depreciate far less than > many 'similar' cars that appear, at first, better value. This is true in the States as well. When I bought my 2001 330Xi last fall, it became obvious that the Bimmer's first year depreciation would be about the same as that of a Hyundai Accent (which is actually a swell city car in its own right). Of course the Bimmer costs three times as much up front and the difference has to be borrowed and interest paid or if in hand, could be invested; thus interest lost. Separate questions: Do you pay an annual excise tax on cars in the UK? Based on price? Displacement? How much for the Bimmer? Rick R. > In article <4d446d68a7dave@davenoise.co.uk>, > Separate questions: Do you pay an annual excise tax on cars in the UK? > Based on price? Displacement? How much for the Bimmer? There's no one-off charge - we just pay 17.5% VAT which is included in whatever you agree with the dealer. Manufacturer's recommended retail prices always include all taxes, delivery and registration charges (including the first year's road tax) - but no-one ever pays those :). Road tax is not to do with displacement or list price, but CO2 emissions. Some of the smaller BMWs produce very low quantities of CO2 (< 160 g/km), so you pay around £120 a year; anything above a 320i, and you pay the full £165 a year. Company car tax bands (where the car is offered as a benefit in kind, not a requirement of the job) are structured similarly. > > In article <4d446d68a7dave@davenoise.co.uk>, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the car is offered as a benefit in kind, not a requirement of the job) > are structured similarly. Thank you. > Separate questions: Do you pay an annual excise tax on cars in the UK? > Based on price? Displacement? How much for the Bimmer? Sort of depends on whether it's a private car or a company owned one. There is an annual tax - called the vehicle excise duty - which is based on engine capacity but has only two bands - a political move to help the owners of the smallest cars. So 165 gbp per year for all 'our' cars, IIRC. You get a disk which you put on the windscreen to show it is current. Only the very smallest of cars - which I doubt you get in the US - get the cheaper rate. Company owned cars are taxed via income tax on the supposed benefit to the driver. Based on their CO2 emissions - so vaguely engine size. That tax can be quite high - several 1000s gbp, but not quite as much as the actual costs of buying and running the car yourself. Those who have a company car will cry rubbish. ;-) Signature*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > *The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds * How far is thirdeen seconds? ;-) Yeah, I agree. Drove the car today, is really tight. You can really tell when one has been taken care of and when it hasnt. Earlier in the week, I drove a 325i. 2002. 33K. Felt great except it seemed the transmission was shifting too early....thought I was being kind of obsessive...then I saw a car fax and saw that the car had been in a moderate wreck..hmmm.... As far as the 330i in question though, drove it today. Is a 2001. 50K miles and drives like new. Also, has the original tan interior that still looks new.....most of the ones Ive seen in any used Bimmer look rough, very rough...... Put an offer in today...will see what happens...... > Yeah, I agree. Drove the car today, is really tight. You can > really [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Put an offer in today...will see what happens...... Just as an FYI... If the interior looks *really* good, it probably is leatherette (not real leather), BMW's version of vinyl. It fools many people because it is pretty authentic looking and holds up to wear much better than leather, IMO. It's obviously easier to maintain and it saves ~$1500 on the initial purchase price of the car and subsequent resale price. I have it on my E36 3 series and when I am looking for another 325 or 330 (E46), I will be looking to find another one with it (not leather). YMMV, -Fred W > Just as an FYI... If the interior looks *really* good, it probably is > leatherette (not real leather), BMW's version of vinyl Since a question was asked about UK taxation, could I ask a question about US leatherette? In the UK, cars come with either cloth (in its many forms) or leather. Vinyl went out here many many years ago as being 'tat'. Even in buses and trains, which will use cloth. Signature*Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > The Malt Hound <Malt_Hound@*no spam please*yahoo.com> wrote: >> Just as an FYI... If the interior looks *really* good, it probably is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Vinyl went out here many many years ago as being 'tat'. Even in buses and > trains, which will use cloth. And your question is? FYI, the PP comes with "Alcantara" only - leatherette. Wish we could get cloth here. Although, with all the in-car eating/drinking we do, cloth gets dirty quick... Floyd >> The Malt Hound <Malt_Hound@*no spam please*yahoo.com> wrote: >>> Just as an FYI... If the interior looks *really* good, it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > leatherette. > Wish we could get cloth here. If my choice was to have either cloth or Leatherette I would take the Leatherette. IMO, the main advantage to cloth is it is cooler in the summer heat, but if it gets that hot I generally have the AC turned on, so it really does not bother me that much. The advantages to Leatherette I have already enumerated. -- YMMV, -Fred W > Good point, though, about the cars being made in Germany. I suppose > what I wanted to get a better if rust does do long term damage to these > cars up north.....as I plan to keep this car for the long haul..... How long is long? Visiting a breaker's yard which specialises in BMW looking for parts for my brother's E28 - which has rusted - I was surprised just how well E34s had survived. Most there were, of course, accident damaged, but all looked pretty good, rust wise. And the oldest are fast approaching their 20th birthday. I'd be surprised if later cars are less well protected. Signature*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>>> .... I was not surprised to find that the >>>> car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > roads. Sure, it will probably be fine, but why buy a car that's been in > the salt if you don't have to? Fair enough, but we're not talking about a 2002 (model, not year). I live in northern NJ, had an E-36 328i from March 96 until November 03, drove it year-round, and had *no* corrosion-related issues with the car. Exposure to salt should be low on your list of concerns with the car you are considering. --Mike > >.... I was not surprised to find that the > >car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen earlier that day. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -- Larry Thanks for the input. I am a native Atlantan as well -- I am aware of the difference between the mid-Atlantic states and New England.......I have to remind myself from time to time that some of us are self effacing southerners who are always paranoid of being perceived as ignorant by people from other parts of the country.....will be certain to be more careful with my geography next time........ You reminded of an incident in (Underground) Atlanta that happened to me on my first trip to the US in 1973. The underground bits had only been open a couple of years or so IIRC and there were smart uniformed young men and women aound, eager to help visitors. My girlfriend and I got chatting with a couple of them. As background, my accent is typical neutral southern England and hers was/is German, if not strongly so. One of the two guides asked us if we were Yankees and, when we said no [ having needed time to overcome our suprise.. :-) ] asked us if they sounded 'stoopid', all the while speaking in a stereotypical Southern US accent. It was hilarious and, obviously, not forgotten to this day. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > from time to time that some of us are self effacing southerners who are > always paranoid of being perceived as ignorant by people from other [...] >> .... I was not surprised to find that the >> car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I would not be concerned. I once put 90,000+ miles on a Fiat 124 > Spider in NJ with no maintenance problems at all... Maybe no maintenance "problems", but, I'll bet there was a lot of maintenance. ;-) Jeff > -- Larry > >> .... I was not surprised to find that the > >> car has spent its life in New Jersey...01 325 coupe I had seen [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > -- Larry Long haul as in until the engine dies (from the research I have done, 250K is realistic for the engine). I would be getting a pretty good deal on this and Im in love with the car. Would intend to pay it off, continue to maintain it, use it as a daily driver until about 150K then keep it as a back up/fun car for later on. Right now the car has about 50K. Anyway...suppose the bottom line is that I want to invest a lot in taking proper care of this car...but would be horribly ironic if it ended up rusting out >From what most are saying here, it really seems to be a non issue. > Anyway...suppose the bottom line is that I want to invest a lot in > taking proper care of this car...but would be horribly ironic if it > ended up rusting out > >>From what most are saying here, it really seems to be a non issue. I agree. It is a non-issue for a couple of reasons: 1) The salt that has been on the car will be washed off ( you do plan on washing the car, right?) and you, being from the south, will not be seeing much salt from then on, other than what wafts through the air when you go to the beach. ;-) It is the continued exposure to the salty brine kicked up off the road that causes the steel to corrode. 2) Even if the car continued to be driven in the New Jersey, Jersey does not get very much snow on an annual basis. Compare that to winters in northern New England (Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont) and their winter weather is about a months shorter on each end. Even in the depth of winter they don't get nearly the number of snowwy days as further north. Now look at the cars from New England (or Upstate NY) and yes, there are some rusted cars, but those are generally the ones that the owners sis not care to spend the time washing. Investing time in the care of your car is exactly the right thing to do to ensure longevity, regardless of it's prior history. Relax. Get a good deal on the car (what the heck, use that as a bargaining point. People from down south don't understand road salt, right?) and then enjoy your car!!! -Fred W |
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