 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / BMW Cars / April 2005Tramlining
Pardon my ignorance but there are occasional and sometimes frequent mentions of tramlining—which tires are guilty and which do not cause the problem. I assume "tramlining" means that the tires get caught in grooves in the roadway and steering becomes more difficult. OK. As an abstract concept, I can understand that. But what grooves? I have lived in several different states and I never was affected by grooves. I never avoided any because I never saw any. Are they talking about concrete highways with tar divider strips running parallel to the direction of travel? The roads I drive on are asphalt (Tar Macadam, bitumen, etc). Maybe I don't drive fast enough? Does this problem only occur at speeds above the legal limit? Thanks for explaining it all! Columbus, Ohio > OK. As an abstract concept, I can understand that. But what grooves? > I have lived in several different states and I never was affected by > grooves. I never avoided any because I never saw any. Are they > talking about concrete highways with tar divider strips running > parallel to the direction of travel? The roads I drive on are asphalt > (Tar Macadam, bitumen, etc). In the US, I mostly noticed it on concrete road surfaces. But you're right. If the pavement is nice and smooth, you're not going to experience tramlining much if at all. Out here in Poland, it's a whole other story. Asphalt is so soft and not reinforced underneath that big heavy trucks over time cause the asphalt to cave in and two deep grooves/valleys form. The wider the tires and the stiffer/shorter the sidewalls, the more prone to tramlining they are. Bridgestone S-03s were pretty bad in that respect. My current ContiSportContact2 are much better. > Maybe I don't drive fast enough? > Does this problem only occur at speeds above the legal limit? No. It occurs at all speeds. What model and size tires do you have? Cheers, Pete My new tires (for my 1998 318ti) are BFGoodrich Traction Sport 205/55 ZR16. I don't know if they are sold in Europe. They are highly rated by drivers on the internet and don't cost much. I understand that Michelin bought BFGoodrich and that led to this tire being made. My own experience with it is limited since I only drive the car in good weather and we haven't had much of it here yet. I have ridden as a passenger in cars and vans between Tuchow and Tarnov and around Krakow and Wadowice but don't remember road ruts. What I do remember is crazy drivers passing at high speed on crowded two-lane highways. I thought I was dead several times but drivers seem to "make way" at the last moment. Fritz Wagner >What model and size tires do you have? > >Cheers, > >Pete Columbus, Ohio > but drivers seem to "make way" at the last moment. Welcome to the world of BMW driving!!!! <dons flame suit> Sorry... just wanted to be first ;) Spugs > My new tires (for my 1998 318ti) are BFGoodrich Traction Sport > 205/55 ZR16. With that size, you're not going to experience too much tramlining at all, me thinks - they're narrow enough and the sidewall is still pretty tall. I used that size for winter - no tramlining at all. For summer I have 225/45/17 - tramlining is more pronounced. > I have ridden as a passenger in cars and vans between Tuchow and > Tarnov and around Krakow and Wadowice but don't remember road ruts. Try the road from Warsaw to Katowice next time - tramlining hell, mainly in the right lane. :) > What I do remember is crazy drivers passing at high speed on > crowded two-lane highways. I thought I was dead several times > but drivers seem to "make way" at the last moment. LOL! Yeah, bunch of crazies here. Cheers, Pete > My new tires (for my 1998 318ti) are BFGoodrich Traction Sport > 205/55 ZR16. With 205mm width tires you will not experience much, if any, tramlining. 205 is the stock width on most 3 series. Tramlining occurs primarily with increased widths. I find it most noticeable when traveling on rutted asphalt roads around here. Heavy truck traffic tends to cause 2 depressed ruts that the wider profile tires want to wander around in. -Fred W Yes, they are talking about concrete roadways. When these roads are built, the contractor will (according to the design specification) cut numerous grooves into the surface. these grooves carry water away and reduce hydroplaning. They also provide lateral support so the tires have something to grip. Trammlining is, at the very worst, an annoyance. Back in the day when I was a kid, we called this "road feel". Cars that had loads of road feel were desirable for many reasons, having the car scoot to the side as a result of following the grooves in the road surface was considered a bad side affect of this deisrable trait. Feeling the road through the steering wheel was considered an advantage over having the road be hidden through the steering linkage, but the necessarily stiffer suspension components and designs that give better road feel also make the tendancy to follow the grooves more noticable. Oh well ... > Pardon my ignorance but there are occasional and sometimes frequent > mentions of tramlining-which tires are guilty and which do not cause [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks for explaining it all! > Columbus, Ohio Tramlining can also mean grooves worn into the ashphalt from heavy trucks over time, I am in Montreal and we have these all over. Any tire wider than a 225 is sure to give you some grief! I have 235 and 255 rear so I feel it for sure. In this area the weight limits for trucks is much higher than in Ontario or the USA so our roads get destroyed quickly. Tramlining is a real issue, just not everywhere! > Yes, they are talking about concrete roadways. When these roads are built, > the contractor will (according to the design specification) cut numerous [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> Thanks for explaining it all! >> Columbus, Ohio > Tramlining can also mean grooves worn into the ashphalt from heavy trucks > over time, I am in Montreal and we have these all over. Any tire wider than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the USA so our roads get destroyed quickly. > Tramlining is a real issue, just not everywhere! I have only seen those once in my life, and I was in Europe at the time. Perhaps I have encountered them on the East Coast of the USA, but I have only been there a few times, and the event(s) don't stand out in my mind. In any case, wouldn't a reasonable person EXPECT a car to follow these deep ruts in the road. I know I would expect it, and I would certainly NOT expect this to be a function of my tires ... >>Tramlining can also mean grooves worn into the ashphalt from heavy trucks >>over time, I am in Montreal and we have these all over. Any tire wider [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ruts in the road. I know I would expect it, and I would certainly NOT expect > this to be a function of my tires ... That's exactly what a reasonable person would expect. But guess what? That's not what happens. The tires don't actually *follow* the ruts, they hit the sides of them and tend to want to climb out of them. One second it's to one side, the next it's the other. The first time I felt this happening I thought, gee, it must be really windy out there... but then I noticed that the leaves and branches of the trees on the side of the road were not moving at all. -Fred W > >>Tramlining can also mean grooves worn into the ashphalt from heavy trucks > >>over time, I am in Montreal and we have these all over. Any tire wider [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > windy out there... but then I noticed that the leaves and branches of > the trees on the side of the road were not moving at all. Well, DUH! Tires, or anything, will always try to climb to the high side of stuff they encounter on the road. If you brush a curb, the tires will pull towards the curb for a moment. The same thing is happening in a rut, the side of the rut looks just like a curb to the front tires, except the rut is rougher so it grabs the tire better. The ruts fit the track of a truck, which is going to be wider than your car. so while one side of the car if pulling out of the rut on one side, the other side is dropping down into the rut on the other side. As uncomfortable as this might be, is it really a function of the tires? Jeez, I love living in California where we don't have to deal with seasons, and all of the crap that goes along with them. > Well, DUH! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > As uncomfortable as this might be, is it really a function of the tires? It certainly does seem that way as my E36 will not do this with the standard 205/60-15's but when I put on the summer skins 225/50-16 it is quite noticeable. It is somewhat alarming at first, but not so bad once you get used to it. > Jeez, I love living in California where we don't have to deal with seasons, > and all of the crap that goes along with them. Ah, but the seasons have a lot of good things to offer too... like shoveling snow, and raking leaves, and sweating like a pig the first time it hits 80 degrees, and... Hey, you guys got any extra room out there? Oh that's right. You don't. At least the last time I was there it sure didn't seem like there was. ;-) -Fred W Yes. Why are there so many concrete surfaces on US highways? Better-wearing than tarmac, e.g.? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > Yes, they are talking about concrete roadways. [...] > Yes. Why are there so many concrete surfaces on US highways? > Better-wearing than tarmac, e.g.? Yes, but only in relatively warm weather areas. In areas subject to deep winter ground freezing, the frost heaving under the concrete tends to wreak havoc as the edges of the large blocks split and crumble due to shifting and whacking with snow plow blades. In the past, concrete was tried on somne roadways here in the northeast US. Most of these are a complete mess now and have either been asphalt paved over (which still causes problems) or removed and repaved with asphalt (tarmac) which is more flexible and able to withstand the winters better. -Fred W A good asphalt surface also gives rise to little road noise. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >> Yes. Why are there so many concrete surfaces on US highways? >> Better-wearing than tarmac, e.g.? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -Fred W > A good asphalt surface also gives rise to little road noise. An excellent point. I once lived near a major freeway in Vallejo, CA. The noise (especially at night) from vehicles passing over the concrete joints was miserable. Luckily, we only lived there for a few months... -Fred W > Yes, they are talking about concrete roadways. When these roads are > built, the contractor will (according to the design specification) cut [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > suspension components and designs that give better road feel also make > the tendancy to follow the grooves more noticable. Oh well ... I do not call following the grooves in concrete tramlining, though the cause and effects may be the same. If you've never driven a car that exhibits it on an uneven surface (not just grooved) then you may never have experienced the phenomenon. It can be quite disconcerting as the car will want to dart around requiring constant steering corrections just to stay in its own lane. -Fred W |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.