E30 - 325il?

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Neil - 20 Apr 2005 18:08 GMT

A friend of mine just bought a 1986 325i cabrio. I don't have the vin to
hand, but according to the dealer that did the PPI for him, the vin number
came up as being a 325e. The engine in the car is not an eta however, it is
an "i".

The date of manufacture was 5/86. My friend was told that the 325i cabrio
was not available until 87, although I am wondering if 5/86 does qualify as
an 87 MY?

The dealer suggested that his car must have been an early pre-production
model imported from Germany. The car has the larger "diving board" bumpers,
although I suspect they may have been added after being imported. Further
evidence that this was a euro-spec car is the presence of the side-marker
(indicators) close to the front wheel arches, and elipsoid headlights. I
believe the elipsoids weren't introduced until the tail light re-design,
(car has original tail-light cluster), so these may have been added later.

The 3-spoke steering wheel is what I believe is referred to as the "sport"
wheel (not the M3, "is" or "es" m-tech wheel), with the roundel mounted on
the horn push in the centre of the wheel.

The car has the boot lid spoiler found on the likes of a 325is/318is, but
this could have been added later.

The black leather front seats are heated, and appear to be identical to
those found in the M3.

What is most bizarre is the presence of a 325il badge on the trunk. Very
possible a PO put this on, but if they did it was done some time ago and put
on very straight. I've seen E30s incorrectly re-badged with E36 style
badge, but never one with an "L".

There is also a very small clip on badge on the front grill of the
motorsport colours.

FWIW, the car is alpineweiss II, has the 14" basketweaves, came with an OEM
hard top, and only 70k. Listed at $4,900, but paid $3,000 cash.

Can anyone shed any light on the unusual aspects to this car?

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Somebody - 20 Apr 2005 18:28 GMT

> A friend of mine just bought a 1986 325i cabrio. I don't have the vin to
> hand, but according to the dealer that did the PPI for him, the vin number
> came up as being a 325e. The engine in the car is not an eta however, it is
> an "i".

You should ask this question in e30@yahoogroups.com. Or, in the forums at
http://www.bmwe30.net.

It's a bit deep for this group, although you never know what expert might be
lurking...

-Russ.

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Neil - 20 Apr 2005 18:38 GMT

> You should ask this question in e30@yahoogroups.com. Or, in the forums at
> http://www.bmwe30.net.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> -Russ.

Thanks for the advice. I do plan on posting to a few of the forums, but as
I'm in work right now it's easier to post to usenet. You're right though, I
have found there to be several very knowledgable E30 people here.

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John Burns - 21 Apr 2005 09:53 GMT

> The date of manufacture was 5/86. My friend was told that the 325i cabrio
> was not available until 87, although I am wondering if 5/86 does qualify as
> an 87 MY?

Maybe in the US. Certainly there are '86 cabrios in the UK.

> What is most bizarre is the presence of a 325il badge on the trunk. Very
> possible a PO put this on, but if they did it was done some time ago and put
> on very straight. I've seen E30s incorrectly re-badged with E36 style
> badge, but never one with an "L".

New one on me too.

> There is also a very small clip on badge on the front grill of the
> motorsport colours.

Often added, usually fake.

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Malt_Hound - 21 Apr 2005 13:14 GMT

> A friend of mine just bought a 1986 325i cabrio. I don't have the vin to
> hand, but according to the dealer that did the PPI for him, the vin number
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Can anyone shed any light on the unusual aspects to this car?

Neil, a car produced in 5/86 may very well be a 1987 model year car. I
am not aware that any cabrios ever came with the eta engines. I believe
that they were the 2.5 liter "i" engines through the entire production
even when the sedans were etas. However, this may have been a US market
thing?

Please post the last 7 digits of the VIN number and I will tell you what
the car has (had).

-Fred W

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Neil - 21 Apr 2005 19:16 GMT

> Neil, a car produced in 5/86 may very well be a 1987 model year car. I
> am not aware that any cabrios ever came with the eta engines. I believe
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -Fred W

9677685

Thanks Fred.

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Malt_Hound - 22 Apr 2005 13:35 GMT

>>Neil, a car produced in 5/86 may very well be a 1987 model year car. I
>>am not aware that any cabrios ever came with the eta engines. I believe
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks Fred.

Well, Neil, the plot thickens...

I entered that VIN into my BMW ETK (Electronic Part Catalog) and it
comes back as:
3 Series E30 325e *Coupe* USA, Trans M, Steering L, Year/Month blank

So I entered it into the TIS (Technical Information Supplement) and it
comes back as:
E30 325e *SAL*, Year 1986, Eng M20, Gearbox MECH

So, it seems the two cannot agree how many doors you have (2 or 4) but
neither of them think this is a cabriolet. They both agree, however
that this has the ETA engine and it would appear it is a 1986.

My guess is that either this may be one of the Baur (sp?) aftermarket
convertible conversions with a fake 325iL badge (there was no iL by the
way) or the car has had some numbers swapped around somewhere along the
line. Do the numbers on all of the body parts match the VIN plates?

I think that you might be able to tell if the engine is "eta" or "i" by
getting the numbers off the engine block? I believe there is a chart of
some sort that will allow us to determine what this really is.

Does anyone else know of any other outward signs that differenciate an
"e" engine from an "i"?

-Fred W

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John Burns - 22 Apr 2005 14:28 GMT

> Does anyone else know of any other outward signs that differenciate an
> "e" engine from an "i"?

The etas intake manifold has longer runners. If you compare photos of
the i and eta engine you'll see what I mean.

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Neil - 22 Apr 2005 14:53 GMT

> Well, Neil, the plot thickens...
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> way) or the car has had some numbers swapped around somewhere along the
> line. Do the numbers on all of the body parts match the VIN plates?

Unfortunately the car isn't a Baur, and it definitely has an automatic
transmission and an M20 engine. I'll check to see if the engine is truly an
"i" if I can find photos with which to compare.

There are two numbers stamped on the firewall, one of which I presume is the
engine number, while the other appears to be a VIN that has been painted
over, and partially scratched off. Where the painted-over number is
stamped, you can run your finger along the firewall and feel some kind of
damage or dent. It definitely got me thinking that for whatever reason, the
VIN might have been changed. Would the original VIN be changed for a
euro-spec car that was imported into the US?

Where else can I look for VIN numbers on the car?

> I think that you might be able to tell if the engine is "eta" or "i" by
> getting the numbers off the engine block? I believe there is a chart of
> some sort that will allow us to determine what this really is.

Where on the engine block are these numbers stamped?

> Does anyone else know of any other outward signs that differenciate an
> "e" engine from an "i"?
>
> -Fred W

Thanks for your help Fred. I'll report back what else I discover.

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Tbird-Steve - 23 Apr 2005 10:25 GMT

If there's marks around the VIN then it might have been through a chop shop
a few years ago when it was a more valuable car. That would go a long way
towards explaining mis-matched numbers etc. Does the VIN and other numbers
match those on the ownership or registration papers?

Steve

>> Well, Neil, the plot thickens...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Thanks for your help Fred. I'll report back what else I discover.

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dj_2_left_ft - 28 Apr 2005 15:10 GMT

i vs e - how about drive that automatic at wide open throttle and see what
the shift point is in RPM - if it is at or under 5000rpm probably "e", over
6500rpm, probably "i", over 7000rpm, probably no longer running...

>>>Neil, a car produced in 5/86 may very well be a 1987 model year car. I
>>>am not aware that any cabrios ever came with the eta engines. I believe
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> -Fred W

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KMS - Brett Anderson - 16 May 2005 05:25 GMT

> > 9677685

Production date, Jan 24 1986
US production, 325e 2 dr sedan
Manual trans
Delphin Grey Metallic paint
Black leather

WBAAB5409G9677685, full VIN

LSD
ABS
Central locking
Electric sunroof
Rear spoiler
Electric front windows
Sports seats
Air conditioning
Cruise
OBC
MSport suspension
MSport leather sterring wheel.

If the car currently carrying this VIN is a convertible, it's stolen.

Brett Anderson
KMS

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Frank Kemper - 22 Apr 2005 13:53 GMT

"Neil" <NOSPAMnbrad@hotmail.invalid.com> haute in die Tasten:

> The date of manufacture was 5/86. My friend was told that the
> 325i cabrio was not available until 87, although I am wondering if
> 5/86 does qualify as an 87 MY?
>
> The dealer suggested that his car must have been an early
> pre-production model imported from Germany.

According to www.e30.de the regular production of the E30 started in May 1986, this
would fit to the production date suggested by you. I seriously doubt that this car is a
preproduction sample, because BMW usually collect these after a while and destroys them
entirely (as confrmed by several BMW employees I know personally). It is mandatory for
them to do so in order to get these cars street legal in Germany. It sounds very
reasonable to me that the E30 convertible came later into markets which require serious
modification (UK with Right Hand Steering, US with EPA regulations).

An E30 convertible of that production date in original condition and with German specs
does not have most of the modification you describe. The old convertibles are equipped
with chrome bumpers, non-ellipsoid headlights, no side marker lights (they do carry a
plastic cover instead, as other markets required such marker lights back then). The
spoiler on the trunk has never been a factory standard. German spec. Early E30
convertible were available in three versions: 318i, 320i, 325i (The badges on the
trunklid read exactly like this). In 1988 BMW introduced the E30 M3 convertible,
which has different bumpers and wider fenders. Other badges are not original. In
Germany it was quite common to order the car without badge (mine does not carry one),
so that only knowledged people would detect the size of the engine by the shape of the
exhaust tubes (one tube = 318i, two small tubes = 320i, two big tubes = 325i). 316i and
325e never were officially available as convertible, the same is valid for the diesels.

This image shows an '86 E30 convertible german spec without modification

http://www.schwarzone.de/e30/fotost/f00320/02.jpg

This image shows my '92 E30 convertible german spec, also without modification.

http://www.kemperzone.de/page-0019.htm

I am quite sure that the information given until this point are quite accurate, as I do
live in Munich/Germany and I own an E30 convertible with M-Technic option package. This
car does feature a small M-Technic logo in the lower spoke of the steering wheel but no
logo in the front grille. The side marker lights confuse me. Maybe the car was sold to
Italy. They have regulations very similar to the german ones, so that you can sell a
german car basically unmodified to Italy. But they do have the side markers.

Hope that helps.

Frank

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