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Car Forum / BMW Cars / May 2005BMW worthless warranty
Gents My leased BMW 2003 330i with 23000 miles has 2 bent exhaust valves and still under warranty here is a quote from the letter from my dealer " Mike Molina with BMW said that if the valves were burnt this would be warranty issue and warranty would pay for that. If any valves are bent, that would not be covered repair with BMW and any repairs done because of a bent valve would be the responsibility of the customer" SO what bent the values and WHY is it not covered? Seem like a better written explanation form BMW would be in order for a $4000 repair. It appears to me that BMW's warranty is not worth the paper it is printer on. Glen Ossman Roanoke VA > My leased BMW 2003 330i with 23000 miles has 2 bent exhaust valves and > still > under warranty > ... > SO what bent the values and WHY is it not covered? Bent valves are caused by an over-rev condition, which is the fault of the driver (unless you have an SMG or Steptronic). Hence, BMW won't cover damage caused by a bad downshift. Floyd >> My leased BMW 2003 330i with 23000 miles has 2 bent exhaust valves and >> still [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Floyd So the dealer/BMW can't write that down? your meaning of a bad shift is? the fault codes did not indicate an over-rev condition.( it took the dealer 3 days to find the problem) for a $4000.00 dollar repair bill I was hoping for a little more factual information than a "Bad Shift" I don't feel that a diagnostic print out and a written explanation of the cause is to much to ask for a $4000 dollar repair. So why can't BMW supply me with that? and the better question is WHY CAN'T THE DEALER GIVE ME THEIR OPINION OF THE CAUSE OF THE FAILURE? > fbloogyudsr wrote: >>> My leased BMW 2003 330i with 23000 miles has 2 bent exhaust valves and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > your meaning of a bad shift is? If you are at a high rpm and downshift, the wheels can cause the engine to rev faster than redline. > the fault codes did not indicate an over-rev condition.( it took the > dealer > 3 days to find the problem) Well, if that's the case, then you are not at fault and they should cover it. Have you had ECM mods done? That could be a possible warranty invaliding action. Floyd > Warranty that's the case, then you are not at fault and they should > cover it. Have you had ECM mods done? That could be a possible > warranty invaliding action. 1. Car has had 2 oil changes 2. 1 factory recall of window module 3. car has 4 year 50000 mile maintance 4. Car has 4 year 50000 warranty 4. driven 23000 miles of a 48000 mile lease. 5. owner drives car less than once a week 6. car is 100% stock 7. owner has drive stick shift for over 20 years 8. car has 9 months left on 39 month lease >>Warranty that's the case, then you are not at fault and they should >>cover it. Have you had ECM mods done? That could be a possible [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 7. owner has drive stick shift for over 20 years > 8. car has 9 months left on 39 month lease Glen, The only way that they can refuse you coverage is if they prove you were at fault by finding an "over rev" fault in the ECU. Since the engine will shutdown at redline, the only way an over rev can occur is if you shift down into a lower gear and release the clutch at too high of a road speed, such as what can happen when one puts the car into 3rd gear when attempting to upshift into 5th. If there is no evidence of this happening they will have to pay. -Fred W >> 1. Car has had 2 oil changes >> 2. 1 factory recall of window module >> 3. car has 4 year 50000 mile maintance >> 4. Car has 4 year 50000 warranty They all do. >> 4. driven 23000 miles of a 48000 mile lease. >> 5. owner drives car less than once a week >> 6. car is 100% stock >> 7. owner has drive stick shift for over 20 years Can we assume that the word is "driven"? >> 8. car has 9 months left on 39 month lease And all of this means? > The only way that they can refuse you coverage is if they prove you were > at fault by finding an "over rev" fault in the ECU. Since the engine > will shutdown at redline, the only way an over rev can occur is if you > shift down into a lower gear and release the clutch at too high of a > road speed, such as what can happen when one puts the car into 3rd gear > when attempting to upshift into 5th. Exactly - what is called the "money shift" in BMW land. It is not uncommon, even with people who have "driven" stick for 20 years. The BMW shifter is a particularly stupid design. Part of it is attached to the transmission and part of it to the car. This would be fine if the transmission didn't move in relation to the car body - but it does due to engine torque twisting the engine/transmission assembly. What results ia a change in the position AND spacing of the shift positions. A simple change in relative position between one gear and another normally is no problem for a driver. The change in both position and spacing between the shift positions is. The changes get worse as the car is driven harder, since engine torque is used more for accelerating or deaccelerating. Since this started happening with some frequency with the intro of the E36 M3 in the US (it happened during the press intro..) BMW, in 1996 added the ability to record the maximum engine RPM in the main computer module. BMW decided that they do not warranty over-rev conditions, blaming it on the driver. > If there is no evidence of this happening they will have to pay. Correct - but since valves don't spontaneously bend themselves - it always indicates an over-rev condition unless the timing chain broke. > -Fred W Yup - no good news here - I think Glen is stuck paying for the repairs. > Yup - no good news here - I think Glen is stuck paying for the repairs. I get the impression from reading Glen's post and another one he put up later about participation in the BBB that this is not his car, he's just got an "ax to grind" perhaps? -Fred W Fred Nope it is my car. I am the leaser Glen >> Yup - no good news here - I think Glen is stuck paying for the repairs. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Fred W >> Yup - no good news here - I think Glen is stuck paying for the repairs. > >I get the impression from reading Glen's post and another one he put up >later about participation in the BBB that this is not his car, he's just >got an "ax to grind" perhaps? It appears that he is the owner, but he is not the one who has been driving the car, so he can't really know if the car has over revved. In any event, he is not telling us the real story. >>> Yup - no good news here - I think Glen is stuck paying for the repairs. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >driving the car, so he can't really know if the car has over revved. >In any event, he is not telling us the real story. Have you ever noticed that most people will tell you something the way that they WANT you to think it happened and not really what REALLY happened? Many years of law enforcement teaches you that little detail. -wxs- Par files, the Stemcells of Usenet >Have you ever noticed that most people will tell you something the way >that they WANT you to think it happened and not really what REALLY >happened? > >Many years of law enforcement teaches you that little detail. I witnessed a traffic accident and stuck around to talk to the police. They took me aside and asked me what happened first, then spoke to the two drivers involved. After listening to both of them, the cop points to me and says "That guy's version is the ONLY thing I've heard that makes sense." Emanuel  Signature1983 Porsche 944 Guards Red/Black 2003 BMW 325i Black/Black OK. I guess I am not clear on this 1. It is my car. 2. I am the only one who drives it. 3. I did not have a story to tell. 4. Dealer / BMW written Explanation of why my car was not covered under warranty, failed to mention the cause of the failure. 5. I have been in contact with BMWNA and Dealer on at least 4 occasions 6. I have requested arbitration from the dealer 7. I will request arbitration at my meeting with BMW next week. 8. My "AX" is the lack of any form of documentation of why my car failed. 9. And the last one is why BMW is not part of the BBB Arbitration program and most others are? did I miss anything? >>> Yup - no good news here - I think Glen is stuck paying for the repairs. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > driving the car, so he can't really know if the car has over revved. > In any event, he is not telling us the real story. > BMW decided that they do not warranty over-rev conditions, blaming it on > the driver. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Correct - but since valves don't spontaneously bend themselves - it > always indicates an over-rev condition unless the timing chain broke. I would not allow that sort of assumption. But I'm also betting that there *was* an over rev error detected and that was the reason for the refusal to honor the warranty work. -Fred W > I would not allow that sort of assumption. But I'm betting that > there *was* an over rev error detected and that was the reason for the > refusal to honor the warranty work. It seem to me that WOULD be a great reason to reject a warranty claim, and it also would have been easy to print that out and hand it to me. so why did BWM / Dealer not just do that very thing? Glen >Since this started happening with some frequency with the intro of the >E36 M3 in the US (it happened during the press intro..) BMW, in 1996 >added the ability to record the maximum engine RPM in the main computer >module. IIRC, the non-M cars do not have this feature. >>Since this started happening with some frequency with the intro of the >>E36 M3 in the US (it happened during the press intro..) BMW, in 1996 >>added the ability to record the maximum engine RPM in the main computer >>module. > > IIRC, the non-M cars do not have this feature. You remember wrong. ALL BMW's since '96 have this "feature" > IIRC, the non-M cars do not have this feature. You remember incorrectly. ALL BMW's have this "feature" - it would cost money to take it out of the computer - it's only code and a memory position. >> My leased BMW 2003 330i with 23000 miles has 2 bent exhaust valves and >> still [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Floyd Two bent exhaust valves. Shouldn't there be more bent valves than just the two? >My leased BMW 2003 330i with 23000 miles has 2 bent exhaust valves and still >under warranty [snip] >It appears to me that BMW's warranty is not worth the paper it is printer >on. Warranty is not there to cover misuse or abuse. You don't give nearly enough information for anyone to even speculate if the dealer is right to deny you coverage. My guess it's a money shift issue. Two questions: 1) does the car have a manual transmission? 2) is the car chipped? If yes to both, you have no case to pursue warranty coverage. > here is a quote from the letter from my dealer " Mike Molina with BMW > said that if the valves were burnt this would be warranty issue and > warranty would pay for that. If any valves are bent, that would not be > covered repair with BMW and any repairs done because of a bent valve > would be the responsibility of the customer" > SO what bent the values and WHY is it not covered? Since all modern engines have rev limiters, the damage must have been caused by either the timing chain slipping a tooth or changing into a lower gear at a speed higher than its maximum, and letting the clutch up. Fourth to third instead of fifth etc when driving hard, perhaps. A timing chain slipping would be easy to prove, because it won't go back to normal. The other is simply driver error. They might argue that a skilled driver should have felt the extra resistance of going down a gear rather than up, and possibly also felt the car slowing up when engaging the clutch and therefore not fully engage it. Or that the driver had simply engaged a lower gear at more than its maximum speed. Signature*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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