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Car Forum / BMW Cars / August 20052006 325 warranty... what gives?
I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really known for their reliability. I dont want to own a money pit. Their website doesn't tell much about the warranty, and asks me to talk to a dealer regarding coverage details. What sort of nonsense is that? I don't want some dealer to "give me his word" on what is covered, I want to see the full details of regular and extended warranty, all inclusions and exclusions in writing. Will the dealer give me this BEFORE I plonk down $35k? Better yet, does anyone already have this information they could share here? I realize that pricing of the warranty could be something up for negotiation, but I at least need to know whats covered before I buy one of these things. > I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to > investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really > known for their reliability. I dont want to own a money pit. Sure about the money pit thing?? We own 3 BMWs, none of which have failed "reliability". Only 1 has an extended maintenance warranty, but we aren't so sure we needed it. Kathy >> I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to >> investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Kathy I just have friends that had 2002-2004 3-series and they are in the shop for 200 bucks here, 300 bucks there all the time. I seem to be a little "harder" on a car than most, because american cars don't last long at all with me driving, I've had success only with japanese models.. thus my interest in extended warranties. It also worries me that the new 3-series is brand new, and Im wondering if I should wait till 2007 for them to work the bugs out. >>> I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to >>> investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that the new 3-series is brand new, and Im wondering if I should wait > till 2007 for them to work the bugs out. The BMW will require more preventive maintenance than a Honda or Toyota, but given that (and in the US, it's free for the warrantee period of 50K / 4 years) the reliability is exceptional. OTOH, I would follow BMW's pre-free-maintenance-era schedule for such things as coolant, differential, transmission and power steering drain and refill. (I think 2 years for brake fluid is adequate.) That would reflect an over-and-above cost that could be a couple hundred dollars during the free maintenance period. I find it hard to believe that you have friends with relatively new cars that require significant maintenance on their nickel. The warrantee and maintenance offered by BMW should cover the average driver for 3-4 years. What specifically are your friends spending their money on? If you're inclined to under-maintain your vehicles (late with oil and various filter changes, never drain/refill fluids, never check tire pressure, etc) an extended warrantee might be a good thing. But under those circumstances, I think your needs would best be served by the aforementioned Japanese cars. They absorb the punishment of neglect better than German or Detroit iron. R/ John > I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to > investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really > known for their reliability. I dont want to own a money pit. An extended warranty is a form of insurance, and therefore not sold at a loss. So to benefit from buying one you have to be more unlucky with problems than the average. I didn't take up the offer on my E39, and am many hundreds of pounds better off as a result. Others will have different stories. ;-)  Signature*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to >> investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Others will have different stories. ;-) I think that's generally true. But as I said in an earlier thread, I seem to have worse luck than average with regard to reliability. Also, I like not running into expensive surprises, I'd prefer to operate on a fixed monthly budget that stays relatively constant. Even if paying for repairs out of pocket turned out to be a few bucls more than paying for repairs as they arise, I like avoiding the stress of an expense here, an expense there, etc. > >An extended warranty is a form of insurance, and therefore not sold at a > >loss. So to benefit from buying one you have to be more unlucky with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > >Others will have different stories. ;-) > I think that's generally true. But as I said in an earlier thread, I > seem to have worse luck than average with regard to reliability. > Also, I like not running into expensive surprises, I'd prefer to > operate on a fixed monthly budget that stays relatively constant. > Even if paying for repairs out of pocket turned out to be a few bucls > more than paying for repairs as they arise, I like avoiding the stress > of an expense here, an expense there, etc. Then you'd need more than an extended warranty and add something like a fixed price maintenance scheme, since many things will be wear and tear and not failures. Signature* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >An extended warranty is a form of insurance, and therefore not sold at a >> >loss. So to benefit from buying one you have to be more unlucky with [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >fixed price maintenance scheme, since many things will be wear and tear >and not failures. I suspect you're right, but I would like to see the warranty options and evaluate things for myself before making a decision. Who said that the german cars arent known for reliability?? Thats the biggest load of crap I've ever heard!! Maintainance is the only key.. take care of your vehicle and it will take care of you. I have seen bimmers running up in the 350-400k range on original powertrain components with no major (over $500) work done on them. If you are planning on buying a bimmer and then driving it into the ground like a honda or a toyota, then dont buy it.. your car will fail and it will be expensive. Sure you can get a honda or toyota to the 150k miles range but it will drive like a big hunk of crap if not maintained. Same goes for the bimmer, but your honda, toyota, whatever, will never give you the driving experience of a well maintained bimmer. >Who said that the german cars arent known for reliability?? Consumer Reports and other ratings boards show a clear disparity in overall reliability between German and Japanese brands. Do not compare BMW to Honda or Toyota, compare them to Acura and Lexus... and yes you can certainly get an equivilent if not better in some cases driving experience. Anyway, my question is what exactly is or isnt covered under the basic and extended warranties. It wasnt to debate reliablity statistics across brands. > Anyway, my question is what exactly is or isnt covered under the basic > and extended warranties. It wasnt to debate reliablity statistics > across brands. As the website says, go talk to your dealer. They are not going to "give you their word", they have all the info you need and will be able to answer any questions you have. You will (presumably) go to the dealers to look at the cars, so ask about the warranties then. Can't really see what you have a problem with? >> Anyway, my question is what exactly is or isnt covered under the basic >> and extended warranties. It wasnt to debate reliablity statistics [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >cars, so ask about the warranties then. Can't really see what you have a >problem with? The problem is that to even know if I am remotely interested in the car, I would like to see what the warranty covers. I don't want to drive halfway across town and spend an hour or two talking to a salesman, because time is money to me (as it is to him), and if the warranty is inadequate I am not interested in the brand. I could discern this in 5 minutes if I could read the warranty itself. The web offers a perfect opportunity for them to publish this information. Manufacturers of other goods do it routinely, so why do car dealers need to be so elusive about their warranty information? I didn't come here to complain, I posted the original postprimarily to see if anyone had this info they could share. Failing that, maybe I will just call up the dealer and ask them to e-mail me a .pdf or other document with the information. The year is 2005 and this information should really be on the web in this day and time. If they can invest the time to write all the marketing spiel, they should make the warranty information public without having to listen to a sales dog and pony show or in-person visit to the dealer. Unless they have something to hide. >>> Anyway, my question is what exactly is or isnt covered under the basic >>> and extended warranties. It wasnt to debate reliablity statistics [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > and pony show or in-person visit to the dealer. Unless they have > something to hide. To be perfectly honest, in my experience of BMW's the warranty is as good as you'll get anywhere. BMW are one of the few (if not only) manufacturers who will honour known problems with your car even when it is out of warranty, as long as it has been dealer serviced. BMW's are no less reliable than any other performance marque. Everyone raves about Japanese reliability, but this is often just good marketing. For example, the Mitsubishi Evo 8 is a great performance car, but has a service interval of 4000 miles. Compare that to an M3 which has a c.15000 miles service interval and equal, if not greater performance. Seriously, take a couple of hours out on a Saturday afternoon and go to the dealer. If you're thinking of spending $35k I think the least you can do is invest a couple of hours in it. >>>> Anyway, my question is what exactly is or isnt covered under the basic >>>> and extended warranties. It wasnt to debate reliablity statistics [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >dealer. If you're thinking of spending $35k I think the least you can do is >invest a couple of hours in it. I hear you brother but please understand 2 hrs = roughly $400 of billable time for me, (yes I often work saturdays because I dont want to work forever) or time I could spend with my family which is valued higher than that. If other car vendors are willing to put warranty information online, BMW is not above the industry norm. The cheesy 80s are over and nobody is going to feel better saying "I drive a bimmer!" these days. Quality is everything. > If other car vendors are willing to put warranty information online, > BMW is not above the industry norm. The cheesy 80s are over and > nobody is going to feel better saying "I drive a bimmer!" these days. > Quality is everything. I tried to find the *UK* warranty conditions for a Toyota Prius online (just for interest ;-)) and failed. Seems to me you're looking for an excuse not to by a BMW. ;-) Signature*Cover me. I'm changing lanes. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> If other car vendors are willing to put warranty information online, >> BMW is not above the industry norm. The cheesy 80s are over and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Seems to me you're looking for an excuse not to by a BMW. ;-) Heh.. trust me, I want one of these puppies. Just dont want to be sorry I did. > I hear you brother but please understand 2 hrs = roughly $400 of > billable time for me, $400 your net? Probably not (maybe). Given the correct circumstances, we can bill thousands of dollars per hour at work (with only 3 or 4 guys working). It doesn't mean I value my time at a grand per hour. I bet you could phone a salesman at a local BMW dealership and get the goods on the phone. If you explain you're interested but don't have the time to come by, they should give you as much attention on the phone as in person. Conversely, you can spend several minutes writing messages to this group explaining how you're very busy and how you're unhappy with the fact that BMW doesn't list their extended waranty info on their website. BMW may encourage you to come by so that you can have someone who is familiar with their (apparently comprehensive) waranty program take you through it, answer any questions, and clarify anything you find questionable. I find that as you're willing to pay more for a product, the better and more personal the service becomes. Regards, Robin >> I hear you brother but please understand 2 hrs = roughly $400 of >> billable time for me, > >$400 your net? Probably not (maybe). Given the correct circumstances, we can >bill thousands of dollars per hour at work (with only 3 or 4 guys working). >It doesn't mean I value my time at a grand per hour. Yes, I was figuring $400 as my bottom line cost. >I bet you could phone a salesman at a local BMW dealership and get the goods >on the phone. If you explain you're interested but don't have the time to >come by, they should give you as much attention on the phone as in person. I already stated I don't WANT the goods by phone. I want something tangible that I can hold someone accountable for. You think some verbal statement from a car salesman over the phone holds anyone accountable? >Conversely, you can spend several minutes writing messages to this group >explaining how you're very busy and how you're unhappy with the fact that >BMW doesn't list their extended waranty info on their website. But I can do that in quick 1 or 2 minute intervals, while I am on my PC, waiting for a background task to complete. No lost work time at all. If BMW is willing to send someone to my office to present warranty information to me, and doesnt mind being put on pause every few minutes or so while I am working, then I will likely buy the damn car. But I doubt that will happen. >BMW may encourage you to come by so that you can have someone who is >familiar with their (apparently comprehensive) waranty program take you >through it, answer any questions, and clarify anything you find >questionable. I find that as you're willing to pay more for a product, the >better and more personal the service becomes. I find that a horribly inefficient process and an insult to their clients time. We live in a day and age where a simple FAQ on their website could answer 90% of people's questions. Human intervention should only be required in the other 10% of cases. Otherwise, it means they are paying sales or support people unnecessary wages and passing it on to us in the sales price of the car. > Conversely, you can spend several minutes writing messages to this group > explaining how you're very busy and how you're unhappy with the fact > that BMW doesn't list their extended waranty info on their website. > BMW may encourage you to come by so that you can have someone who is > familiar with their (apparently comprehensive) waranty program take you > through it, answer any questions, and clarify anything you find > questionable. I find that as you're willing to pay more for a product, > the better and more personal the service becomes. I'd email BMW US explaining the circumstances and ask them to send a hard copy of the warranty. Signature*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. "BMW is not above the industry norm. The cheesy 80s are over and nobody is going to feel better saying "I drive a bimmer!" these days. Quality is everything. " This comment would lead me to jump to the assumption that you should get a Hyundai. The warranty with a Hyundai is fabulous, and Im sure its online. If you are considering a BMW, you need to drive one, your comments show that you havent. BMW is far above the "industry norm", people buy BMWs because they are a drivers car, I would dare say that for most, the warranty is just an added benefit to driving one of the best production cars out there. Your right, this isnt the eighties, but I think you are still stuck there with this mentality. Sorry... I still say I drive a bimmer, its not a status thing, its a driver thing. IMHO, the quality you will get in a BMW is far superior in all aspects to most other cars out there, however, if your measure of quality is a warranty, then, like I said above, BUY THE HYUNDAI!!! From the BMW web site: BMW Full Maintenance. A whole different kind of fulfillment. Maintenance is one of many hidden costs to consider when you're looking at a car's sticker price. For most cars, that is. Fortunately, BMW offers one of the most comprehensive maintenance programs in its class. Not that service is needed often, only every 15,000 miles or so. Just about anything your BMW might need replaced or serviced-brake pads, wiper blades, oil change, checkup-is fully covered for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. Full Maintenance covers all factory-recommended maintenance on all MY 2004 vehicles and newer vehicles, as determined by the Service Level Indicator, for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. Exclusions from coverage: gasoline, gasoline additives, windshield washer additives, tires, wheels, wheel alignment, tire balancing and rotation. All work must be performed by an authorized BMW center. See the Service and Warranty Information booklet for more details and exclusions. That last sentence indicates that there is a booklet that explains the warranty. Call your dealer and ask them to mail it to you. >>> Anyway, my question is what exactly is or isnt covered under the basic >>> and extended warranties. It wasnt to debate reliablity statistics [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > and pony show or in-person visit to the dealer. Unless they have > something to hide. > The year is 2005 and this information >should really be on the web in this day and time. If they can invest >the time to write all the marketing spiel, they should make the >warranty information public without having to listen to a sales dog >and pony show or in-person visit to the dealer. Unless they have >something to hide. Does *any* company have its warranty information on the net? Is it only BMW that has something to hide? Emanuel >> The year is 2005 and this information >>should really be on the web in this day and time. If they can invest [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >only BMW that has something to hide? > Emanuel Nissan does. The entire unabridged booklet online in .pdf format. I would not have bought my current car if they did not. Am I the only one who does not even consider (or look at) the warranty when buying an automobile? I pick a car I like to drive. I have been told that I'm a little special/different though. :) > I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to > investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > for negotiation, but I at least need to know whats covered before I > buy one of these things. I'm with you Keith. I buy the car, not the warranty. > Am I the only one who does not even consider (or look at) the warranty > when buying an automobile? I pick a car I like to drive. I have been told [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> for negotiation, but I at least need to know whats covered before I >> buy one of these things. >I'm with you Keith. I buy the car, not the warranty. Maybe some folks have money to burn. I make a decent living and can afford nice things but I'm not independently wealthy, and I would be a lot poorer at this stage in life if I did not buy large ticket items based on total cost of ownership. As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the warranty booklet. >>I'm with you Keith. I buy the car, not the warranty. > > Maybe some folks have money to burn. I make a decent living and can > afford nice things but I'm not independently wealthy, and I would be a > lot poorer at this stage in life if I did not buy large ticket items > based on total cost of ownership. >As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the warranty >booklet. Quite possibly the most reasonable suggestion in this thread yet. I went to dinner with my gf this evening and asked her to swing by the BMW dealer so I can see the 325 in person. Very nice looking car. I thought it would be a little bigger than it was, but it was nice looking nonetheless. I told her she can just get me one for my birthday and the whole reliability / money pit issue would go away for me. She didn't seem amused. Some of the posts here with regard to reliability experiences have been encouraging. Ultimately though, I would like to see the Lexus IS before making a decision. >>As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the >>warranty [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I went to dinner with my gf this evening and asked her to swing by the > BMW dealer so I can see the 325 in person. Did you charge her $400 for the privilege, or did she split it with the salesman? I was also curious if you had time for sex after your meal, or the $20 you could have generated during your coital intimacy detract from your gf's enjoyment???? (BTW, Ibill higher than you, and still find plenty time to spend on a new car - I think that you are taking the piss in this thread). Very nice looking car. I > thought it would be a little bigger than it was, but it was nice > looking nonetheless. I told her she can just get me one for my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > been encouraging. Ultimately though, I would like to see the Lexus IS > before making a decision. >>>As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the >>>warranty [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Did you charge her $400 for the privilege, or did she split it with the >salesman? Spending time with my gf is something I want to do. Listening to some salesmans spiel is not, smartass. >I was also curious if you had time for sex after your meal, or the $20 you >could have generated during your coital intimacy detract from your gf's >enjoyment???? It's rather of perverse of you to waste your precious and few moments of brain activity pondering my sex life. Have you seen a shrink for that? >(BTW, Ibill higher than you, and still find plenty time to spend on a new >car - I think that you are taking the piss in this thread). Very mature of you to mention that. I didn't come here to boast about my income, I provided that information in response to someone elses comment. If you enjoy going to dealerships, chatting it up with salesmen and what not -- then that's fine... thats your perogative. Maybe you live closer to the dealer than I do. Maybe you have a higher hourly rate but do not work seven days a week as I currently am on my current contract. If I had time to piss away (and you apparently do), going to the dealer would not be as big a deal. But right now it is rather insulting to me. And please, dont start with up "why do you have time to argue here if you dont have time to go to the dealer". I explained that in another post - I can reply to the whiney twits like you without leaving my PC, which allows me to continue to work and type while the PC is crunching away. >>>>As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the >>>>warranty [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > which allows me to continue to work and type while the PC is crunching > away. Not only do you have time to reply to EVERY post, but you seem to be able to do it sooooo quickly. Get a Skoda. It suits your personality - it's also crap. >>>>>As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the >>>>>warranty [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >Not only do you have time to reply to EVERY post, but you seem to be able to >do it sooooo quickly. What are you retarded? I explained this twice now and you still don't get it. >>>>>>As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the >>>>>>warranty [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > What are you retarded? I explained this twice now and you still don't > get it. Guess I must have too much time on my hands. I get it, but it's YOU that's a little out of sync. I just feel sorry for the poor bastard who sells you a car. He has no idea what kind of time he's in for from an a.shole like you. >>>>>>>As I mentioned before - call the dealer and have them mail you the >>>>>>>warranty [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >I just feel sorry for the poor bastard who sells you a car. >He has no idea what kind of time he's in for from an a.shole like you. No need to feel sorry for him, I usually submit an offer via fax and let them come to me if they agree to the terms. Sometimes they take it, sometimes they dont. That way I don't have to deal with greasy sales a.sholes. You probably enjoy the experience because they make you feel like "a pal", as they grease up your anus and give ya a f.cking, going home with a smile on your face and feeling like youre part of an "elite" club now. > No need to feel sorry for him, I usually submit an offer via fax and > let them come to me if they agree to the terms. Sometimes they take [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > f.cking, going home with a smile on your face and feeling like youre > part of an "elite" club now. I'm sure this is all very nice, but have you contacted BMW US - by fax, phone, email or letter and asked them to send you a copy of the warranty? After all, you were advised to do this early on, so it would be nice to know the outcome. Rather than reading some sexual fantasies. There are groups specifically for this, you know. Signature*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> No need to feel sorry for him, I usually submit an offer via fax and >> let them come to me if they agree to the terms. Sometimes they take [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >After all, you were advised to do this early on, so it would be nice to >know the outcome. The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. In the discussions here, I have come to realize that most BMW owners are complete weenees and morons. I dont want to be associated with them. Right now my eye is on the Lexus IS 350.. Lexus is forthcoming with their information, and the owners are not a bunch of goobers looking for some sort of fantasy auro around a brand name. Besides the IS 350 will bloe the doors off BMWs in a remotely similar price range, in all aspects including performance and quality. >Rather than reading some sexual fantasies. There are groups specifically >for this, you know. No I wouldnt know.. why dont you explain it to the group. > The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. In the discussions > here, I have come to realize that most BMW owners are complete weenees > and morons. I dont want to be associated with them. Forget the waranty - now we're going to buy a car based on the personalities of other owners of that same car. Are you driving a personality to work every day? Choder, have you driven the IS 350 yet? How does it compare to a bimmer? What about the Hyundai? Regards, Robin >> The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. In the discussions >> here, I have come to realize that most BMW owners are complete weenees [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Choder, have you driven the IS 350 yet? How does it compare to a bimmer? >What about the Hyundai? Its not out yet, which is why I said I am only eyeballing it. I'm basing my interest on reviews from people who have driven it and compared it to the 3 series. I wouldnt know about the Hyundai, you'll have to fill us in on that. > The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. All BMW drivers (and dealers) are breathing a sigh of relief. > Right now my eye is on the Lexus IS 350.. Lexus is forthcoming with > their information, Good - did they tell you they don't market an IS 350 in th U.S, only the IS 300? > Besides the IS 350 will bloe the doors off BMWs in a remotely similar > price range, in all > aspects including performance and quality. 2005 IS 300: 5-speed base cost is $30,280, no maintenance included, 0-60 in 6.8 seconds 2006 BMW 325: 6-speed base cost is $30,995 including 50,000 miles free maintenance, 0-60 in 6.7. Somehow, the Lexus, although a fine car, won't quite "bloe" the BMW's doors off! Maybe you need to do a bit more research and less "spanking" of us poor bimmer drivers! Tom >> The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Good - did they tell you they don't market an IS 350 in th U.S, only the IS >300? You need to take a look at the 2006 IS 250 and IS 350. At least check out Lexus's website without making a total a.s out of yourself. >>> The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > You need to take a look at the 2006 IS 250 and IS 350. At least check > out Lexus's website without making a total a.s out of yourself. I did. www.lexus.com Since the IS350 isn't yet available, there are no prices given - so your statement is baseless. I, at least, gave you a Lexus comparison with the BMW 325, the car you named in this thread and a car you could buy today if you weren't so busy trolling. BTW, the Lexus warranty is basically the same as BMW's (4 yr/50k miles), but if you need more info, you need to "see your dealer for particulars"? Is this how "Lexus is forthcoming with their information"? >>>> The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >if you need more info, you need to "see your dealer for particulars"? Is >this how "Lexus is forthcoming with their information"? What a retard. Search the site and you can find all the warranty documents. Stay away from the computer, you're dangerous. >>The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Tom You can't pay for entertainment this good... -- -Fred W PS - Choder? Choder? What is Choder? > >I'm sure this is all very nice, but have you contacted BMW US - by fax, > >phone, email or letter and asked them to send you a copy of the > >warranty? > > > >After all, you were advised to do this early on, so it would be nice to > >know the outcome. > The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. Which is what I suspected after your first post. You're some form of trawl. Signature*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >I'm sure this is all very nice, but have you contacted BMW US - by fax, >> >phone, email or letter and asked them to send you a copy of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >You're some form of trawl. Which explains why you decided to respond so many times, right? heh... > >> The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. > > > >Which is what I suspected after your first post. > > > >You're some form of trawl. > Which explains why you decided to respond so many times, right? BMW owners try to help others. Enjoy your Lexus. Signature*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> >> The outcome is I decided to avoid these cars. >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Enjoy your Lexus. Some of your responses were helpful at first, but then later you decided to join the fray of whiners. > Some of your responses were helpful at first, but then later you > decided to join the fray of whiners. No, I simply asked if you'd contacted BMW and asked them to send you a copy of the warranty. It's what any sensible person would do. Signature*A plateau is a high form of flattery.* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > I was thinking of buying one of these things, but I wanted to > investigate the extended warranty since german cars aren't really > known for their reliability. I dont want to own a money pit. As several posters have pointed out, in the US the first 4yr/50k is covered by a bumper to bumper warranty and scheduled maintenance. You shouldn't have to spend on anything other than gas and tires. I must be one of those with bad luck because I've had several things go wrong - fuel sending units were replace twice, ignition coils had to be replaced, warped rotors needed replacing, and there were 3 or 4 bulb failures. The only thing that I paid the dealer for was an alignment because I had a steering vibration problem. After 50k, for the original owner, BMW has started selling an extended _service_ warranty which covers scheduled maintenance including stuff like brakes and rotors. The dealer should have more information about this plan and what it will cost for the new cars. It covers the car to 6yr/100k. BMW also sells an extended warranty valid for 6yr/100k, but it's not as comprehensive as the original warranty - there is quite a long list of exclusions, e.g. stereo is not covered under this. At the time I bought the warranty, the dealer didn't have too much information on it, but I bought it anyway. BMW then sent me an information packet on this and I had 30 days to cancel and get a refund. (I'm not sure if this is because it's a California law, but I did have the option to cancel.) As far as I'm concerned, the pleasure of driving a BMW (even when compared to Acura, Lexus, Infiniti which I test drove at the time I bought the car) far outweighs the pain. If I had to choose again, I'd still pick the BMW. Anoop I know I have broken the rules by removing the rest of the post but it was getting too much. I can't believe you are asking about warranty before sitting in/seeing/driving the car. What happens if the nice man at BMW sends you the warranty details, and you like the terms but then go and look at the car drive it and decide you don't like it. If your response is you have already driven it then maybe you should have asked about the warranty during the test drive. A BMW will cost more than a Nissan! It may also cost moreto run than a Nissan! It MAy also develop more problems than a Nissan! BUT it will always be a better more enjoyable car to drive than a Nissan!!! IF your decision is based purely on logic and running costs of the vehicle the nyou should buy a Toyota Prius If like 80% of us decisions such as this are based on emotion then the BMW will always win >I know I have broken the rules by removing the rest of the post but it was >getting too much. Then maybe you have an anger management problem. Tried prozac? >I can't believe you are asking about warranty before sitting >in/seeing/driving the car. What a moronic thing to say. Sitting in, seeing and driving the car is of no value to me at all if it falls apart in 10k miles. >What happens if the nice man at BMW sends you the warranty details, and you >like the terms but then go and look at the car drive it and decide you don't >like it. That's fine. It could happen. I dont understand your question here. There are a lot of other things that could get in the way of the deal happening. But I've already said that I place a huge emphasis on reliability and I don't like the fact that BMW is being elusive about their warranty information. >If your response is you have already driven it then maybe you should have >asked about the warranty during the test drive. You're just not paying attention. I already said I am not going near the dealership until I have a copy of the warranty details. >A BMW will cost more than a Nissan! It may also cost moreto run than a >Nissan! Not necessarily. Maybe a fully equipped BMW will cost more than a fully equipped Nissan, but BMW is well known for overcharging for options. Besides I only mentioned Nissan because they put their warranty information online. Infiniti has their warranty as a downloadable PDF file as well. If you are going to start making comparisons, you should compare BMW to Infiniti. >It MAy also develop more problems than a Nissan! Why? Inferior engineering? If this is the case, tell me exactly why I should buy an inferior car? >BUT it will always be a better more enjoyable car to drive than a Nissan!!! Again, use your brain for a second and draw a fair comparison here. Infiniti is Nissans direct competitor for BMW. The G5 is a formidable opponent to the 3 series. >IF your decision is based purely on logic and running costs of the vehicle >the nyou should buy a Toyota Prius You are once again jumping to conclusions. Did you get far in school? I never said my decision is based "purely on logic and running costs". Obviously if I am looking at BMW, I am interested in a certain amount of performance/overall driving pleasure, but anyone with intelligence is also looking for value. I myself work in engineering, and for the most part I can tell you that well engineered machinery usually does not make its warranty a secret or require you to tolerate a sales pitch to get the information. >If like 80% of us decisions such as this are based on emotion then the BMW >will always win After some of the responses I've seen here, I am beginning to think that a good 20% of BMW owners have more dollars than sense, are enamoured by the BMW brand name (possibly due to a case of arrested development left over from the 80s'), and more and more I'm thinking that Lexus, Infiniti or Acura will be a better car for someone who wants both performance and value. >>I can't believe you are asking about warranty before sitting >>in/seeing/driving the car. > > What a moronic thing to say. Sitting in, seeing and driving the car > is of no value to me at all if it falls apart in 10k miles. It may be of no value to *you*, but it's of value to others. If your attitude was widespread, noone would ever buy a Ferrari, for instance. > After some of the responses I've seen here, I am beginning to think > that a good 20% of BMW owners have more dollars than sense, are > enamoured by the BMW brand name (possibly due to a case of arrested > development left over from the 80s'), and more and more I'm thinking > that Lexus, Infiniti or Acura will be a better car for someone who > wants both performance and value. I've driven BMW's since 1978. They've been no more trouble, IMO, than any other of the cars I've owned. Less than our Isuzu Trooper, certainly less than our '91 Plymouth Voyager - crap engine, crap transmission, crap interior parts. We now own two BMWs, 3 Toyotas and a Porsche. The Toyotas are just as expensive to have work done on them as the BMWs. But they're not nearly as fun to drive. Of course, one is a truck and they're never as much fun... You're specifically looking at a 2006 325. My opinion is don't buy it. BMW - along with virtually every other manufacturer - has a history of teething problems with new models. The '92 E36 3 series had problems. The 1st year of the E46 did, too (although fewer.) the original X5 had problems. The new 325i has a *brand new* engine. It's a new body. It's the first time idrive has been in a 3-series. A prescription for trouble. Wait a year, or buy something else. OTOH, you might not have any problems at all; lots of BMW drivers don't. Floyd >>>I can't believe you are asking about warranty before sitting >>>in/seeing/driving the car. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >If your attitude was widespread, noone would ever buy a Ferrari, for >instance. Right. I dont want a Ferrari either. Not reliable enough for a primary car. This would be what I drive to work in the mornings. >> After some of the responses I've seen here, I am beginning to think >> that a good 20% of BMW owners have more dollars than sense, are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >certainly less than our '91 Plymouth Voyager - crap engine, crap >transmission, crap interior parts. Isuzus and Plymouths are crap. Not a good reliability benchmark. >We now own two BMWs, 3 Toyotas and a Porsche. The Toyotas >are just as expensive to have work done on them as the BMWs. >But they're not nearly as fun to drive. Of course, one is a truck >and they're never as much fun... This is somewhat encouraging.. but, Im not looking here at how much it cost to get work done on them. I need to factor in how OFTEN it takes as well. As I mentioned in another post, just taking time off work to get these errands done costs me bigtime. >You're specifically looking at a 2006 325. My opinion is don't >buy it. BMW - along with virtually every other manufacturer - has [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Floyd Very insightful post from the last quote on. Im getting the same initial impression. Im a little scared of a new model, especially when its a german make. Thanks for your input. I agree, my last 2 vehicles have been new models. A 1999 VW New Jetta and 2003 BMW Z4. Both had problems. Both had recalls. I can tell you this though (and maybe it has more to do with the dealer than the car), BMW troubles were not as anoying. The dealer made the repairs timely and arranged transportation for me when needed. Dealing with VW was *much* more annoying, time consuming and just an overall bad experience. I loved the Jetta, but hated the service. I went with the Z4 because I wanted more power and RWD. From 2.0(read 2.slow) to 3.0i made a huge difference. I love the Z4, but now that I am married I am trading that in too. My car is being tranferred to the local deal at this time. I will pick it up later this week. Wondering what it is? Yes, another new model. A 2006 BMW 330i. The new engine (255hp) with 6-speed is almost as fast as my Z4 to 60 - 6.1s instead of 5.9s. Yes it is noticeable, no I don't care. The roominess for the family outwieghs the acceleration now that I have a family. I'm rambling now...... Anyway - the point is all new model cars I have had do have more problems than usual. Knowing this I still bought another new model. Maybe I'm just an idiot. I am hoping BMW put enough thought, research, testing, money, whatever into developing their icon auto so that I won't have trouble with the new 3. Only time will tell. >>>>I can't believe you are asking about warranty before sitting >>>>in/seeing/driving the car. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > initial impression. Im a little scared of a new model, especially > when its a german make. Thanks for your input. "Keith Kratochvil" <"bmw.zfour"@verizon.net> wrote > My car is being tranferred to the local deal at this time. I will pick > it up later this week. Wondering what it is? Yes, another new model. A [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > thought, research, testing, money, whatever into developing their icon > auto so that I won't have trouble with the new 3. Only time will tell. Let us know how you like it. I've thought about replacing my 330xi, but we generally run cars until they die. I'm thinking that I may buy a diesel 3 or 5 series after they become available after 2007... Floyd >"Keith Kratochvil" <"bmw.zfour"@verizon.net> wrote >> My car is being tranferred to the local deal at this time. I will pick [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Floyd What do you think of your 330XI? I was thinking of getting a 2006 330XI when they come out this fall. "jerri" <jerri77@aol.com> wrote >>Let us know how you like it. I've thought about replacing my 330xi, >>but we generally run cars until they die. I'm thinking that I may buy >>a diesel 3 or 5 series after they become available after 2007... > > What do you think of your 330XI? I was thinking of getting a 2006 > 330XI when they come out this fall. I have a 2001 330xi. Manual, sport package (seats, steering wheel and exterior fitments), cold weather package, leather. I have almost 75K miles on it; no engine/transmission problems. Only problems have been radio, passenger seat, short in driver's seat heater (they just recalled the 7 series for this IIRC, so it may be only a matter of time before the other models...) and a couple of other minor things that escape me at the moment. I have snow tires (Michelin Pilot Alpine) for it; the original all-season performance tires are barely adequate. With the snows, the traction and handling/cornering is quite amazing. The new 330xi has the xDrive system I believe, which should add even more performance above the 34/66 constant split which mine has. Right now I have a set of performance "summer" tires from a 325i on it - they really add quite a bit of handling. Floyd >"jerri" <jerri77@aol.com> wrote >>>Let us know how you like it. I've thought about replacing my 330xi, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Floyd Thanks for the information. I was hoping to get by without putting on snow tires. The car it would be replacing is front wheel drive and gets by with all season tires. I live in central US so we do get our share of snow but nothing like they get in the north. I've had many BMW's over the years but never one with AWD. Over the years i've made a point to have one of my cars a front wheel drive car for those snowy winter days we get. No matter what I buy I'll keep at least one BMW. I really love them (except in the snow). If I get an xi maybe I'll finally have a BMW that I like in the snow. Thanks again. "jerri" <jerri77@aol.com> wrote >>I have snow tires (Michelin Pilot Alpine) for it; the original all-season >>performance tires are barely adequate. With the snows, the traction [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > really love them (except in the snow). If I get an xi maybe I'll > finally have a BMW that I like in the snow. Thanks again. You're in quite a different situation than me: I'm retired and spend my winters in the Cascade Mts. of WA state teaching skiing. I spend 80-120 days (depending upon weather) on snow. I can't afford not having the best traction, since I hit the roads before they're plowed sometimes, and the drive to my cabin is plowed only 3-4 times a winter. I had the all-seasons on the first two years I had it, and although I only got stuck once (my fault). Floyd > After some of the responses I've seen here, I am beginning to think > that a good 20% of BMW owners have more dollars than sense, are > enamoured by the BMW brand name (possibly due to a case of arrested > development left over from the 80s'), and more and more I'm thinking > that Lexus, Infiniti or Acura will be a better car for someone who > wants both performance and value. You can count me out from that one. I bought my E39 at two years old to get the vest value. And although I've had two previous BMWs, I'm not blindly loyal to any brand. I drove all the competition within my price range, and at the time, the E39 was just simply the best, and by some margin. So much so that I'm not tempted to change it, even although I've now had it much longer than usual. I didn't extend the warranty, and in the 3 years or so since it ran out have had to replace a crank position sensor, aux air fan, final stage resistor and drivers door handle, all of which I did myself. But even if I'd had to pay the full cost of fitting, I'd still have saved over the cost of the extended warranty. Signature*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > IF your decision is based purely on logic and running costs of the > vehicle the nyou should buy a Toyota Prius That's an interesting one. When Autocar in the UK road tested one fully, they found the touring fuel consumption of the Prius far worse than the new 320D - a far faster car. It managed 44 mpg while the BMW did 56. Ignoring town only use - and who would buy a BMW purely for town use - the Prius is a bit of a joke. Even more telling was the overall consumption for the duration of the test (about 1000 miles) which of course included performance testing - 23 mpg. The BMW, 28. Note this was an early Prius. The latest one may well be different, since the new Lexus RX400H gave impressive results for its class. Although it too gave nowhere near the 'official mpg' in real world use. Signature*Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >Note this was an early Prius. The latest one may well be different, since >the new Lexus RX400H gave impressive results for its class. Although it >too gave nowhere near the 'official mpg' in real world use. IIRC, the newer models are worse on gas; Toyota has ramped up performance a bit, causing mileage to suffer. Emanuel > The only thing that I paid the dealer > for was an alignment because I had a steering vibration problem. Not quite sure how that would help? Signature*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! >> The only thing that I paid the dealer >> for was an alignment because I had a steering vibration problem. > > Not quite sure how that would help? >CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! Lamers like you aren't exactly drawing prestige to the BMW brand name. In fact a couple of you idiots have me leaning toward not wanting to be associated with it. all you do is bitch, get off your a.s and go to the dealer. stop crying about how expensive your time is, we don't care. We honestly hope you buy a volvo, (good car for pussies), so you don't post your crying lame posts here again. >>CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! > > Lamers like you aren't exactly drawing prestige to the BMW brand name. > In fact a couple of you idiots have me leaning toward not wanting to > be associated with it. >all you do is bitch, get off your a.s and go to the dealer. For a moron lackey/nobody like yourself, that's easy for you to say. You're one of the goobers that salesmen love. Never pass up a chance to enter the dealership and get your bunghole greased by a little smooth talking. And after the assfucking you get, you go home feeling a sense of accomplishment. >stop crying about how expensive your time is, we don't care. Nor do I give a f.ck how expendable your time is. >We honestly hope you buy a volvo, (good car for pussies), so you don't post >your crying lame posts here again. Keep talking sh.t, keyboard badass. You would never talk like that to me in person without choking on your own teeth shortly thereafter. You already got bitchslapped and your jaw broken once for being a smart a.s little canadian whiney bitch. See here for evidence: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/mtl.vendre-forsale/browse_frm/thread/11b028f f25fefc74/fbcc3f0f0281f920?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#fbcc3f0f0281f920 So why don't you quit while you're not too far ahead and stop being such a ladyboy. >>CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! >In fact a couple of you idiots have me leaning toward not wanting to >be associated with it. That's the first intelligent thing you've said ! >>>CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! > >>In fact a couple of you idiots have me leaning toward not wanting to >>be associated with it. > >That's the first intelligent thing you've said ! And who the f.ck are you again? Because I dont recognize you. Did you try to contribute something useful to this conversation under a different alias or did you decide to just pop off out of nowhere? What some of the smartasses here have voluntarily failed to realize is that I was asking a legitimate question about the warranty. I came looking for information. A few people offered reasonable suggestions and I engaged them with the same level of respect they engaged me with. On the other hand, a few smacktards came out of nowhere and started calling me names, and received an appropriate spanking. I am willing to continue, and intensify the level of spanking until they have learned their lesson. Consider it my way of helping these toddlers prepare for their future in the real world. >>>>CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >learned their lesson. Consider it my way of helping these toddlers >prepare for their future in the real world. That wasn't intelligent! I'm someone who has had 14 BMW's over the past 25 years. Going by what you have written I can assure you that you would NOT be happy with a BMW. Quit wasting your time and everybody else's and buy something else. I mean this in all sincerity. Good luck with whatever you purchase. BTW: Profanity isn't necessary. >>>CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! > >>In fact a couple of you idiots have me leaning toward not wanting to >>be associated with it. > > That's the first intelligent thing you've said ! Good Grief, Jerri. We've now cost Choder mucho $$$ because he had to go and look up everyone's history so that he could give us an appropriate spanking. I'll bet the group is envious of his capability, and impressed with his bottom line loss. Perhaps Choder should go and argue with himself. While some of us might have a slight personal interest in whether he buys a BMW or not (I don't do any work for the 3 series though) but I doubt anyone here really cares if he buys a Corolla (exceptional value) or any other vehicle instead of a BMW 3 series. It's interesting that Choder is an engineer. Engineers do spin their wheels a lot. Talking, complaning, theorizing, making suggestions, things of this nature - but it never seems to be the engineer that actually gets any work physical work done... He must be good at his job! Regards, Robin >>>>CHODER NEEDS TO BUY A USED VOLVO AND GEWT OUT OF OUR GROUP, PRICK! >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >history so that he could give us an appropriate spanking. I'll bet the group >is envious of his capability, and impressed with his bottom line loss. This sounds like the lower class complaining about the upper class. So tell me your grief point again, slavebitch? You're mad because I came here to ask legitimate questions, and defended myself against a small minority of retards that is so infatuated with the BMW emblem that they will attack a person for simply inquiring about the warranty? Those of you that fit that description have surely added to the prestige that goes with the BMW name. I'm sure they will offer you a job in marketing soon. >It's interesting that Choder is an engineer. Engineers do spin their wheels >a lot. Talking, complaning, theorizing, making suggestions, things of this >nature - but it never seems to be the engineer that actually gets any work >physical work done... He must be good at his job! On the other side of the coin, we have salespeople (aka bullshit artists, liars, scum of the earth) who make a living from trying to talk people out of their money. Since you're anti-engineer, you must be from this group. How proud your kids will be! > This sounds like the lower class complaining about the upper class. > So tell me your grief point again, slavebitch? Becareful about labeling people you know nothing about, esspecially when it is *you* who is complaining about your perceived high cost of owning a BMW... > You're mad because I > came here to ask legitimate questions, and defended myself against a > small minority of retards that is so infatuated with the BMW emblem > that they will attack a person for simply inquiring about the > warranty? I'm not "mad." I'm also not attacking you because I'm infatuated with the BMW logo (I drive a Toyota). I just think you're lazy, and enjoy complaining. Further, you don't seem to be able to do anything about whatever it is you're complaining about. Did you actually think you would get all the details you were looking for by posting a question here? You have to have realistic expectations of a process in order for it to succeed. Looks like this one failed. > Those of you that fit that description have surely added to > the prestige that goes with the BMW name. I'm sure they will offer > you a job in marketing soon. I am not employed by BMW and I don't work in any type of marketing. > On the other side of the coin, we have salespeople (aka bullshit > artists, liars, scum of the earth) who make a living from trying to > talk people out of their money. Since you're anti-engineer, you must > be from this group. How proud your kids will be! I'm not in sales of any type (as far as cars go). As I implied earlier, my job is to get the engineers' ideas to work correctly. Somewhere between the theory (engineer) and the finished product (car driving down the road). I'm not exactly anti-engineer. It just strikes me as such a huge cliche that you come here to complain about something which no one here can change, and then you get remarkably defensive when those who post to this forum explain the situation to you. So finally, what can we do for you? Regards, Robin >So finally, what can we do for you? The answer to that question is in the original post in this thread. I asked for some simple information. Everything that happened thereafter was in response to attacks. If you watch the history of this thread you will see I came here with a fairly simple question. You and a handful of others are the ones who wanted to turn it into a pissing match. Here's a novel idea: when someone posts a question, if you don't know the answer, why dont you save the bandwidth, time, and simply shut the f.ck up? Otherwise, when the thread winds down, it becomes very clear that there are three types of participants: 1. Those seeking information 2. Those providing information 3. Those who simply stuck their noses in because they suck at life and enjoy whining or trying to give others a hard time. Im the first one, who was unfortunately put in a position to defend myself against a few number threes. The number twos entered the thread, shared what they knew, and got out. The answer is knowing where to get information. No one knows everything. Most people know very little. The internet is popular because it is easy to get information, or get information on getting information, on the internet. Originally, before you posted your question, you consulted the internet for information regarding the BMW extended warranty. While the internet did not provide that information itself, it did tell you where to find that information. You have chosen to seek other means (even though the first answer was very much correct and functional). You've come here. Again you did not received the information you were looking for, but in fact information on where you could find the information you're looking for. While looking, you made an a.s of yourself, and continue to do so. Thankfully, the internet is forgiving and you'll be none the worse for it. The conclusion of this thread, and all your time searching and arguing you've spent is that you still have precisely two options (the same two options you had before you came here): you can go and see a dealer, or you can buy your car from another manufacturer. Now, you can call me names for as long as you want. You can participate in flame wars until your fingers fall off. Unfortunately, you still have only two options, and neither of them are influenced by the course of action *you* chose to enter into after you posted your question. Remember that no one here cares if you find the information you're looking for. Regards, Robin >The answer is knowing where to get information. No one knows everything. >Most people know very little. The internet is popular because it is easy to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >provide that information itself, it did tell you where to find that >information. Yes, but is it such a bizarre request to ask a group of enthusiasts about a make whether or not anyone has the information in an electronic format they could share? In other words, someone who has already gone through the sales song and dance and has a simple .pdf they could share, etc. In all of the newsgroups for other car makes, luxury models or otherwise, I find the group as a whole to be quite helpful with this type of information sharing. This group however (while I will admit there were some people who made an effort to help early on) however seems to have an excessive number of people who just want to ignite a flame war over the simple fact that I refuse to go 30 minutes from home and spend another hour talking to a salesman, just in order to obtain something so trivial as warranty information. As this thread was going on, I made a mental list of the last two dozen or so items I have purchased over the last year that cost more than fifty bucks or so. I looked up most of the manufacturers online. I could not find a SINGLE case where the warranty information for the product I bought was not available online. So, when you guys start defending BMW's practice of not putting the warranty online, you are only citing yourself as oddballs. Being elusive with warranty information *IS* very uncommon and should be cause for concern. >You have chosen to seek other means (even though the first answer was very >much correct and functional). You've come here. Again you did not received >the information you were looking for, but in fact information on where you >could find the information you're looking for. Actually someone did provide quite a bit of the answers I was looking for... are you following the thread completely? Whether or not the information is 100% correct might be another issue, but the fact that someone is making a reasonable effort to answer the question is (almost) all I could ask for. The other thing I could ask for is that folks who have absolutely nothing to contribute but whining would kindly shut the f.ck up. >While looking, you made an >a.s of yourself, and continue to do so. Only in the small little minds of yourself and a handful of others. >Thankfully, the internet is >forgiving and you'll be none the worse for it. >The conclusion of this thread, and all your time searching and arguing >you've spent is that you still have precisely two options (the same two >options you had before you came here): you can go and see a dealer, or you >can buy your car from another manufacturer. That's not true, someone provided me some of the information, and someone else suggested I call the dealer and request the information be mailed to me. The effort of the original post was not a complete loss. In almost any other car newsgroup, I think the thread would have remained focused on information sharing rather than flaming. It seems a certain percentage of BMW enthusiasts are "special" (in the same sense of the word it is used in "special" olympics. >Now, you can call me names for as long as you want. You can participate in >flame wars until your fingers fall off. Unfortunately, you still have only [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Remember that no one here cares if you find the information you're looking >for. Just as nobody cares if you choke to death on a sardine. That's just the internet. I didn't come here looking for hugs and kisses, I came here looking for information. I did receive some, its not perfect, but hey that's the internet too. What's even better is that I've had the opportunity to publically spank a few snot-nosed little cry babies, who might have learned a think or two about jutting their noses into a thread and invoking a flame war where there did not need to be one. Maybe in some small way, this will reduce the number of smacktards on usenet, or at least encourage them to engage their brains before picking a fight. I can only remain optimistic. > I can > only remain optimistic. You mean deluded? You're adding to the problem, not subtracting. Talk about more money than brains. Regards, Robin >> I can >> only remain optimistic. > > You mean deluded? You're adding to the problem, not subtracting. Talk > about more money than brains. We have only his word for the money as well. You generally find that people who do earn a reasonable amount don't brag about it. This idiot is nothing but a troll. Fortunately BMW do not need to sell cars to w.nkers. Perhaps this w.nker can stay with Nissan. I'm sure they'll be just thrilled to see him again. > Regards, > > Robin >>> I can >>> only remain optimistic. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Perhaps this w.nker can stay with Nissan. >I'm sure they'll be just thrilled to see him again. Pot calling the kettle black! > > The only thing that I paid the dealer > > for was an alignment because I had a steering vibration problem. > > Not quite sure how that would help? I was a bit surprised too. Here's the whole story :-) I started observing steering vibration that was intermittent I couldn't pin the issue down to any speed or road type and in fact demonstrated this to the tech at the dealer. On the first visit to the dealer for this problem they replaced the front brakes and rotors. They recommended a balance and alignment but I refused because I had just bought new tires and the place I bought them would do the balance for free and the car tracked straight, so I figured the alignment would be OK. However, the steering vibration problem persisted, and I took the car back to America's Tire Co. which is where I bought the tires and had them rebalance. They said the balance checked out fine, i.e. they didn't have to adjust anything. I took the car back to the dealer a couple of weeks later. They again replaced the rotors and brakes and recommended a balance and alignmentment. This time I agreed to do it because by now I was tired of making trips to |
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