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Car Forum / BMW Cars / September 2005Any chance of seeing the 330xi wagon in the USA?
Strange, the heavier wagon body only comes with the smaller engine here. If I want performance, handliong AND cargo capacity, It seems that I'm out of luck with BMW if I live in the US. Has anyone heard if this model will become available in the US for 06? (No SUV's please, I don't like driving inverted.) -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. I don't know, but I agree with you, the 330 in a wagon with AWD should be a popular item. I know I like the 3 Series wagon, but I don't know which motor it comes with. Strange, the heavier wagon body only comes with the smaller engine here. If I want performance, handliong AND cargo capacity, It seems that I'm out of luck with BMW if I live in the US. Has anyone heard if this model will become available in the US for 06? (No SUV's please, I don't like driving inverted.) -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. for 06? > (No SUV's please, I don't like driving inverted.) If you're driving an SUV inverted you're not doing it right :-) > for 06? > > > > (No SUV's please, I don't like driving inverted.) > > If you're driving an SUV inverted you're not doing it right :-) Jeff didn't write that, Doug did. Jeff just top-posted and didn't indent the text he quoted so you couldn't easily tell who wrote what! >> for 06? >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Jeff didn't write that, Doug did. Jeff just top-posted and didn't indent > the text he quoted so you couldn't easily tell who wrote what! To be fair, yes I did top post, but I left several blank lines between my post and the one I replied to, and also inserted the > character into the post I replied to. It should have been pretty easy to discern who wrote what. > To be fair, yes I did top post, but I left several blank lines between my > post and the one I replied to, and also inserted the > character into the > post I replied to. It should have been pretty easy to discern who wrote > what. Your e-mail client should insert the appropriate character before each line as shown above. Some people use different characters, but generally the 'greater than' character is used. You're right, it should be been pretty easy to discern who wrote what, but apparently wasn't. More of a reflection on Jim than you I suppose. Better to bottom-post and leave a single blank line after the quoted post IMO. Anyway, I shouldn't be so picky. It's Friday! Yay! >> To be fair, yes I did top post, but I left several blank lines between my >> post and the one I replied to, and also inserted the > character into the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Better to bottom-post and leave a single blank line after the quoted post > IMO. Anyway, I shouldn't be so picky. It's Friday! Yay! My news reader does insert the >. Well, it inserts the > in posts that I can see, I don't know what it does to posts that I can't see -- which would include posts where the newsreader might strip them out, why it would strip them out is beyond me. > "Neil" <NOSPAMnbrad@hotmail.invalid.com> wrote >> Better to bottom-post and leave a single blank line after the quoted post [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would include posts where the newsreader might strip them out, why it > would strip them out is beyond me. Might be some interaction with HTML - I know that OE doesn't handle ">" in HTML very well... People posting here in HTML should be shot. Floyd The difference between the 325 and 330 motors is pretty minimal. The new 325 motor makes the same power as the E46's 330. If you really wanted, you could graft the induction system and engine computer from the 330 to a 325 - the blocks are the same - and build your own 330 wagon. I'm waiting until spring when the E91 will be available in a rear-wheel drive version. That looks like the best mix of performance, handling, and capacity to me. Pity the interior looks like crap. > The difference between the 325 and 330 motors is pretty minimal. The > new 325 motor makes the same power as the E46's 330. E90 325: 215 bhp, 185 lb-ft torque E46 330: 225 bhp, 214 lb-ft torque 15% more torque in the 330. Tom >> The difference between the 325 and 330 motors is pretty minimal. The >> new 325 motor makes the same power as the E46's 330. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > 15% more torque in the 330. The 330 Wagon would rock, and it NEEDS the bigger motor. Frankly, the Marketing Guys broke a gear or slipped a sprocket, or something, if they decided the customers would not want the wagon fitted with the 330 motor. I see the wagon as a top-of-the-line car, not a base model. The default offering should be the top of the line level, and if consumers want to special order a base model, then fine -- or, "too bad, so sad, wouldn't want to be you." That is, the base model should be something the customer has to request, and then be turned down because the factory doesn't feel like building one. >>> The difference between the 325 and 330 motors is pretty minimal. The >>> new 325 motor makes the same power as the E46's 330. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > something the customer has to request, and then be turned down because the > factory doesn't feel like building one. I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight penalty vs. the 325i sedan is nearly 500 lbs. Tom > I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight penalty > vs. the 325i sedan is nearly 500 lbs. Could be that a wagon is seen as an alternative to an SUV. One of the selling points of most SUVs is the AWD capability. An AWD BMW wagon provides the benefits of a car and an SUV, wihout the disadvantages of an SUV such as ride height. >> I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight penalty >> vs. the 325i sedan is nearly 500 lbs. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > provides the benefits of a car and an SUV, wihout the disadvantages of an > SUV such as ride height. I think Neil is on to something. If the wagon had AWD, that would position it against the X5 and the X3 -- probably the X3 to a greater extent. Hi Group.... It still amazes me (amuses me ?) why more of you guys stateside don't look at more new technology diesel powered cars... Firstly, I was/am a "Petrol head", and had a succession of 200 to 250 bhp petrol cars - would have liked more but that was all funds allowed...... then, here in the UK company car tax was changed and this was the prompt I needed to buy (privately) a new 530D BMW - nowadays here this is a 217bhp car and the torque is 370 ft lbs - many people don't admit to it but they spend some £400 ($700 odd) and chip it up to some 250/270 bhp and around 430 ft lbs torque. These figures are "above average" for a UK car ! - on mine, fuel consumption was approx 40 mpg overall which would be about (32/33 mp US g ?) and on a highway run it gave me consistently top 40s and best was 52 mpg (50 mpg is approx ? 42 mpUSg ?) and still a bundle of reserve power under the bonnet / hood ! (similar powered petrol cars are about 30 mpg at most) - and these diesel cars are so much more driveable, delivering GOBS of power at lower revs, where you spend much of your time - you can't all be red-lining it all the time surely ? and the engine sounds so much less stressed.... Top speed I managed in my lesser powered one was an easy and comfortable 135 mph (GPS speed) and it was still pulling strong, but I ran out of bottle as that is definitely a ban in this country...... I am sure I won't buy a petrol car again What, with fuel prices there reaching the dizzy heights of, what, some $3-50 per gallon ? don't forget we are now well over £1 a LITRE in many places, which is around DOUBLE your prices...... Are you guys still not interested in diesel ? Does it have connotations of agricultural vehicles / trucks still, or is it not the thing to travel in to a party/wedding or something ? There must be a reason - I would really genuinely like to know.... Nick Southern UK > Hi Group.... > > It still amazes me (amuses me ?) why more of you guys stateside don't look > at more new technology diesel powered cars... My guess why we aren't interested in them is because they do not import them here. Perhaps because we don't have the same quality of diesel fuel in the distribution networks. But that is a chicken and egg problem. If we had the diesel cars, we'd soon have the fuel, and vice versa.  Signature-Fred W Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here: <http://users.adelphia.net/~fredwills/> > It still amazes me (amuses me ?) why more of you guys stateside don't look > at more new technology diesel powered cars... The only diesel cars (not trucks) available in the US are the MB E320CDI, and the Golf/Jetta/Passat TDI. Those are the most advanced available, *BUT* they *DO NOT* meet California and other states' standards (mostly for NOx emissions.) Nor will they meet emissions standards for particulates and NOx that will come on line in 2006/2007 (when low-sulfur fuel similar to that mandated currently in EU becomes mandatory.) You guys like to swim in pollution that causes acid rain and cancer; we don't. Your emissions regs are now, and have been, 10-15 years behind ours. That's one of the major reasons. Another is due to horrid experiences with diesel engines (BMW 524TD, GM's 6.7L , etc.) The other reason is pure economics: the additional cost of a diesel engine does not get recovered in operating efficiencies, even over 10 years. EU used to tax diesel less than gas (petrol) to make it work - now it's mostly just pure cost. Diesel in the US has always cost the same as gas (it used to be a few pennies less than regular, how it's about 10 cents above premium). I recently looked at the numbers for the Golf and E320CDI - it took 7 years to break even. You've got to remember that the price of fuel directly affects the economics - in the UK or EU the break-even would be in around 3 years. People keeping cars an average of 4-5 years here in the US would never save money. FloydR "fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in >> It still amazes me (amuses me ?) why more of you guys stateside don't >> look at more new technology diesel powered cars... I forgot to mention that BMW has been reported to say that they will import diesels to the US starting in 2007. They have a lot of engineering and work to do to get the particulate filters and catalytic converters to last the mandated mileage (80K-100K miles IIRC). As do the other manufacturers - including MB and VW. Floyd > You guys like to swim in pollution that causes acid rain and cancer; we > don't. Are you kidding me? Look at all the SUVs that drive around, look at all the diesels in them!!! I am sure modern german diesels in cars produce less polution then what american gas(petrol) SUVs produce, not even talking about the diesel versions. I love this country and live here for that reason, not even mentioning others but one of the things I hate is all the exclusions for privatly owned passenger SUVs. You are talking about polution control that lets the greatest polutors polute as much as possible for no reason what so ever. > fbloogyudsr wrote: >> You guys like to swim in pollution that causes acid rain and cancer; we >> don't. > > Are you kidding me? Look at all the SUVs that drive around, look at all > the diesels in them!!! There are only two models of SUVs that are available with diesels: Chevy (or GMC) Suburban and Ford's Expedition. They sold a total of about 30K Expeditions last year, only a portion (1/3? fewer) with diesel. Chevy sold more (??? but % of diesels was also small). So out of a total market of around 15 million or more motor vehicles, we're talking a number far less than 1%. The percentage in EU is around 40% last I heard. Yeah, recent EU diesels (since low-sulfur fuel availability) emit less soot, but they emit more NOx than ours. Get your facts straight before you blow off such bullshit. Floyd > There are only two models of SUVs that are available with diesels: Chevy > (or GMC) Suburban and Ford's Expedition. Sorry, slipped my mind. The Jeep Liberty is now available with a diesel (as of the 2005 model year). That makes three. Did you know (of course not - I'm going to try to educate you) that in 2002 there were 470,000 diesel vehicle registrations? That's about 2.7% of the 17,000,000 vehicles sold. Floyd >> There are only two models of SUVs that are available with diesels: Chevy >> (or GMC) Suburban and Ford's Expedition. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Floyd eeerrrrrmmmm - don't petrol cars pollute too ? especially the 4, 5 and 6 litre, low technology, gas guzzlers that are rare to extinct in Europe ? and the taste in the air of Californian cities - is that some hybrid rose plant or just the sea air ? Any figures for energy consumption per capita between the continents ? Anyway, seems like we are both going to be dwarfed by the Chinese in the next 10 years or so - then we'll have a Katrina a month perhaps ? Nick > "Floyd Rogers" <fbloogyuds@hotmail.com> wrote eeerrrrrmmmm - don't > petrol cars pollute too ? especially the 4, 5 and 6 litre, low > technology, gas guzzlers that are rare to extinct in Europe ? In grams per mile, all gas engines in the US emit fewer pollutants than gas cars in EU - except CO2, if you count that as a pollutant. > and the taste in the air of Californian cities - is that some hybrid rose > plant or just the sea air ? The air in Berlin, Paris, London, Munich and others I've been in is worse than LA's air. The diesel stink in those cities makes me sick, and the NOx/Ozone/CO is just as bad an eye-stinger as in LA. > Any figures for energy consumption per capita between the continents ? > Anyway, seems like we are both going to be dwarfed by the Chinese in the > next 10 years or so - then we'll have a Katrina a month perhaps ? I'm waiting for a hurricane to travel up the Gulf Current and wipe out Ireland and the UK. ;-< Floyd > "Nick" <a@b.com> wrote >> "Floyd Rogers" <fbloogyuds@hotmail.com> wrote [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > In grams per mile, all gas engines in the US emit fewer pollutants than > gas cars in EU - except CO2, if you count that as a pollutant. In re-reading that, it's a little unclear and even incorrect. How about: EU cars have not had to meet standards similar to those in the US until recently. Because the US has had stricter standards (for HC, CO and NOx) for about 10 years longer than EU, the average per-car emissions for those pollutants is lower in the US than the EU, on a per-mile basis. Floyd >>You guys like to swim in pollution that causes acid rain and cancer; we >>don't. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > talking about polution control that lets the greatest polutors polute > as much as possible for no reason what so ever. I have never even seen a diesel SUV. I see a few big pickups (3/4 ton trucks or larger) with diesels. What part of the country has all these diesel SUVs? Signature-Fred W Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here: <http://users.adelphia.net/~fredwills/> >Are you guys still not interested in diesel ? Does it have connotations of >agricultural vehicles / trucks still, or is it not the thing to travel in to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Southern UK Curious, I checked the BMW US site: (Price and tax info removed) Model Fuel Engine Fuel consump. 0-62 mph 330d M Sport * Diesel 2993cc 42.2 (37.2) mpg 6.8 (6.9) 330i M Sport * Petrol 2996cc 31.7 (30.4) mpg 6.4 (6.8) (auto trans) Not bad, only 4 tenths of a second down on the 0-62 . and the auto trans penalty is only 1 tenth for the diesel. I guess the auto trans makes better use of the high torque. MPG is much better. Still, I wonder if it's worth the penalty of waiting for the one diesel pump nozzle while many gas lanes are open at the filling stations. One thing I didn't see in the table is weight distribution. If the diesel engine is heavier, what does it do to the F/R weight distribution? -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. > Curious, I checked the BMW US site: Don't you mean the UK site? The diesel engine is only slightly heavier than the gas engine IIRC, so the balance is hardly affected. Floyd >> Curious, I checked the BMW US site: > >Don't you mean the UK site? oops.. Was thinking UK when I typed it. fingers decided to change it.. -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. The wagon will be available in RWD in the spring. I comes out this month in AWD - presumably for the New England market - and in RWD in the spring. (This is according to the July BMW dealer bulletin). > I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight penalty > vs. the 325i sedan is nearly 500 lbs. Less than half that is the AWD, IIRC. Floyd >> I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight penalty >> vs. the 325i sedan is nearly 500 lbs. > > Less than half that is the AWD, IIRC. > > Floyd Close - 275 lbs more for the 325xi than the 325i. So the rwd 325it should come in around 3,500. Tom > "Floyd Rogers" <fbloogyuds@hotmail.com> wrote >>> I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Close - 275 lbs more for the 325xi than the 325i. So the rwd 325it should > come in around 3,500. Hmmm. They've changed something. My '01 330xi is 209 lbs heavier than a 330i, and the 325i/325xi difference for 01 is 253 lbs. Floyd >> "Floyd Rogers" <fbloogyuds@hotmail.com> wrote >>>> I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Hmmm. They've changed something. My '01 330xi is 209 lbs heavier > than a 330i, and the 325i/325xi difference for 01 is 253 lbs. Looks like it. The '06 330xi/330i difference is virtually the same at 210 lbs. The only other difference is that the 325xi includes headlight washers & wipers which are standard on both 330 models. I guess the motor, wipers, plumbing & extra fluid accounts for 65 lbs! All figures are from http://www.bmwusa.com/ Tom >I wonder, also, why the wagon is only available with awd. Weight penalty >vs. the 325i sedan is nearly 500 lbs. > >Tom Which raises another question: Is this full-time AWD, as in the Audi A4 with it's Torsen center diff, or is this a viscous or electronic clutch system that drives the extra two wheels only when the other end slips? (part-time AWD) -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. > Which raises another question: Is this full-time AWD, as in the Audi > A4 with it's Torsen center diff, or is this a viscous or electronic > clutch system that drives the extra two wheels only when the other end > slips? (part-time AWD) The older system ('01 - present) in the 325xi/330xi is a 36/74 split full-time system. The new system (in the X3/X5 and now in 3 & 5 series) is the xDrive system, which you might call part-time. Floyd PS: Please post in plain text rather than html. >PS: Please post in plain text rather than html. Can't be me.. I use Agent, text-only. -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. Floyd is a little out to lunch on his math. the '01 to '05 3 series xi are a 38% front / 62% rear full time system. ( 36 & 74 is 110% ) only sportscasters can get away with that. The new Xdrive is a FULL TIME AWD system ( you may not call it part-time ) which is infinitely variable. It can be 100% rear or 100% front or any combination in between the two and is monitored 100 times a second and adjusted according to driving requirements. BMW states that it is pro-active not re-active and adjusts before compensation is needed instead of reacting to loss of traction. It uses a central clutch to distribute drive and reacts five times faster than any other system. 330xi@canada.com >> Which raises another question: Is this full-time AWD, as in the Audi >> A4 with it's Torsen center diff, or is this a viscous or electronic [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > PS: Please post in plain text rather than html. "330xi" <330xi@ottawa.com> wrote > Floyd is a little out to lunch on his math. > the '01 to '05 3 series xi are a 38% front / 62% rear full time system. > ( 36 & 74 is 110% ) only sportscasters can get away with that. (Blushing) >From Car & Driver: "The X3 also debuts BMW's new xDrive, a nifty single-speed torque-transfer coupling with a microchip-administered multiplate clutch pack that constantly varies engine thrust between the front and rear axles from 100 percent rear to 50/50. Combined with brake-based traction control and a hill-descent function that works the brakes to control downward velocity, the xDrive is a more flexible doohickey than the planetary gear differential and its fixed 38-percent-front, 62-percent-rear torque split found in the 325xi and the '03 X5 (the '04 X5 also features xDrive)." >From the BMW press kit: "This division of power covers a range extending infinitely from 50:50 all the way to 0:100. So in an extreme case the front and rear axles are either totally disconnected or linked firmly to one another, such a firm, rigid connection acting in the same way as a 100 per cent longitudinal lock on a conventional all-wheel-drive system. And since torque and engine power are re-distributed within a few milliseconds, the driver normally does not even notice such a change in power. When driving straight-ahead under normal conditions, 60 per cent of the engine power goes to the rear axle, 40 per cent to the front." >>From Car & Driver: > >"The X3 also debuts BMW's new xDrive, a nifty single-speed >torque-transfer coupling with a microchip-administered multiplate >clutch pack that constantly varies engine thrust between the front and >rear axles from 100 percent rear to 50/50. Combined with brake-based This makes me wonder how they do it. If the thing uses a constantly-slipping mechanical clutch, how log will it last? Is it a wear item? A helical gear differential (Torsen is the original brand) does automatic torque distribution instantly, without clutches or electronics. I don't know if they can be designed to do things like 60/40 splits though. I tend to trust the simpler solution to a problem over the more complex one, such as a cable-operated throttle as opposed to an electronic one (Which has problems in manual trans Audis). -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all. |
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