> The correct Mobil 1 oil to use in the S52 engine is 0W40. It is the
> only one sanctioned for use by BMW long life 01 standard. It is *not*
> one of the Extended Performance line.
Thanks for the replies, but I'm still a bit confused. This happens
regularly when I ask about oil...
the candidates are
admin
choice #1 15w-50 full synthetic
#2 5w-30
fred w
#3 0w40
#4 5w40
see my point?
anyone else like to toss their hat in the ring?
Enoch Root - 21 Apr 2006 10:56 GMT
> Thanks for the replies, but I'm still a bit confused. This happens
> regularly when I ask about oil...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> anyone else like to toss their hat in the ring?
0W-40 Mobile 1 oil
It is a synthetic oil derived from dinosaur oil. It is not a true
synthetic, but that's good. You aren't in a race car. You have 6
cylinders.
RedLine and Royal Purple and others are true synthetic oils.
The Mobile 1 and other brands that say full synthetic are not. The 7500
mile rated oils that the fella above is talking about are synthetic
derived from dinosaur oil, but with additives to make the seals swell up
so it doesn't leak. Synthetic is purely made in a lab. It is not a
derivative of dead animals or whale blubber. The 7500 full synthetic oil
"high mileage" is useful for cars that are crap- or are in crap
condition.
If you don't have leaky valves or seals then it is not useful.
In which case you would want the standard commodity derivative synthetic
at 0w-40 weight. This is the oil that bimmer enthusiasts swear by.
If you do have problems with oil leaking, then it's a hardware issue and
needs to be fixed. You will risk seeping oil with true synthetics if the
seals and valves are not in perfect order. The mobil 1 synthetic or
dinosaur oil are not as molecularly thin as true synth's and therefore do
not seep through your seals as readily.
I am not familiar with using diesel oil in a gasoline
engine or picking my oils based on motorcycle wear. The correlation
doesn't make since to me. If you enjoy the chewbacca defensive strategy,
then by all means get 0w-60 synthetic oil with additives for flavor. Like
everything else, it's the right tool for the job. Don't get creative.
Guys with half a million miles on their bmw's use mobil 1 0w-40 with
standard Mann or Bosch filters. Best of luck to you.
And that's my hat.
ER
Fred W - 21 Apr 2006 14:57 GMT
> 0W-40 Mobile 1 oil
>
> It is a synthetic oil derived from dinosaur oil. It is not a true
> synthetic, but that's good. You aren't in a race car. You have 6
> cylinders.
I have seen this before on the internet and I'm pretty sure people are
confusing Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec. I'm pretty sure that it is the
Castrol that is the synthetic made from cracked mineral oil. Mobil 1 is
true synthetic (whatever that means)
Philosophical question: What is synthetic? Is it something that is man
made, ie. not occurring naturally? If so, when was the last time you
saw petroleum based 10W-30 oil come out of the ground?

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Enoch Root - 21 Apr 2006 19:57 GMT
>> 0W-40 Mobile 1 oil
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> made, ie. not occurring naturally? If so, when was the last time you
> saw petroleum based 10W-30 oil come out of the ground?
No, they aren't confusing motor oils. Synthetics cost much more to
produce because they aren't an extraction of anything. They are
completely laboratory manufactured. There are no base components.
But, it's all semantics. It does not affect regular car owners. Those
nascar engine's with enough horsepower to raise a small building- they
need that kind of oil. We don't.
And at the consumer level, yes it is a point of view based on semantics
leading towards philosophy to an extent. The synthetic derivatives don't
leave nearly the same kind of breakdown as pure dinosaur oils. So
everyone comes out ahead.
I understand using different weight oils depending on expansion due to
persistent heat and breakdown. That applies to low ceiling thermal
tolerance oils like dinosaur oil. But synthetic based oils don't have the
same tolerances as regular oil. You can safely not give a sh.t about
weight with derived synthetics and even more so with pure synthetics.
So, in short, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Use the recommended
synthetic oil because it doesn't break down like regular oil. And your
engine will be happy and clean and you won't get stuck in the crackhead
part of town with your nice european car.
ER
Nobody Important - 21 Apr 2006 20:16 GMT
> No, they aren't confusing motor oils. Synthetics cost much more to
> produce because they aren't an extraction of anything. They are
> completely laboratory manufactured. There are no base components.
According to Wikipedia, synthetic oil comes from a reaction of CO, CO2
and methane. Methane is the primary constituent of natural gas, which
is extracted from the ground.
Dave Plowman (News) - 22 Apr 2006 17:01 GMT
> No, they aren't confusing motor oils. Synthetics cost much more to
> produce because they aren't an extraction of anything. They are
> completely laboratory manufactured. There are no base components.
Eh? Explain. They come out of the air?

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Tom Sanderson - 24 Apr 2006 02:13 GMT
> > There are no base components.
>
> Eh? Explain. They come out of the air?
There are no base components that are oils. Obviously, it has to come from
something.
All non-synthetic oils are some combination of refining/filtering/additives
of existing oil (almost always some petroleum fraction).
Synthetics are manufatured from feedstocks which aren't oil. They're much
"cleaner" compositions than petroleum-derived oils.
Tom.
Thanks for the replies, but I'm still a bit confused. This happens
regularly when I ask about oil...
the candidates are
admin
choice #1 15w-50 full synthetic
#2 5w-30
fred w
#3 0w40
#4 5w40
see my point?
anyone else like to toss their hat in the ring?
Fred W - 21 Apr 2006 14:46 GMT
> Thanks for the replies, but I'm still a bit confused. This happens
> regularly when I ask about oil...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> anyone else like to toss their hat in the ring?
Ah... welcome to usenet. Place of the never-ending oil discussions...

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Richard Sexton - 21 Apr 2006 20:46 GMT
>Ah... welcome to usenet. Place of the never-ending oil discussions...
Now who would want to igore a twenty five year old tradition? I mean really...

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mcquarrie - 21 Apr 2006 23:42 GMT
I have read enough discussions previously, that I should have known I
wouldn't get a single answer.
Thanks all the same, but I'm going with the handbook - BMW 15W-40
non-synthetic. Also recommended by a BMW dealer. $24 for 8 quarts isn't
too bad either.
Dori A Schmetterling - 22 Apr 2006 16:03 GMT
My car came with non-synthetic recommendation (MB 190E 2.0 l, 1993) but I
switched to Mobil 1 at one stage (even tho' the dealer wanted to continue
with traditional oil), the type now recommended for many Mercs. I think
this would be especially wise now, given the pounding the engine gets (a few
short city engines every week). I have about 72 000 miles on the clock now.
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
>I have read enough discussions previously, that I should have known I
> wouldn't get a single answer.
>
> Thanks all the same, but I'm going with the handbook - BMW 15W-40
> non-synthetic. Also recommended by a BMW dealer. $24 for 8 quarts isn't
> too bad either.
>> I would not recommend any xxW-50 weight oil in any engine that lives
>> at the high rpms that an M3 engine does. Ask any oil physicist and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> REQUIRES 10W-60 oil isn't it? You might ask your oil "physicist" how
> that works and why BMW did that.
I cannot speak to the S54 engine design, but if the engineers designed
it to use a 60 weight oil then that is what you should use. But the S52
was not designed for that.
> I seem to detect some misunderstanding on your part on how
> multi-viscosity oils work. You would only see the "50" viscosity under
> severe conditions - which this owners engine might see given where
> they're driving it.
Actually, it has nothing to do with severity and everything to do with
temperature. But maybe that is what you meant by severe?
I don't think I have any misunderstanding, but maybe you do? The 50 in
xxW-50 means that at full operating temperature it will behave like a
straight-weight 50 weight oil does. The first number is what straight
weight oil it will behave like when cold.
> In those cases - the heavier weight of the oil will
> help to protect the wear parts by providing the oil wedge between them
> when the clearances in the engine start to widen. A thinner oil may not.
Depending on engine design, bearing tolerances, bearing material, etc,
the exact opposite may also be true, otherwise why wouldn't we just use
the thickest oil we could get?
> www.bobistheoilguy.com has lots of info you might find useful, or not.
> Depends on how closed your mind is.
My mind is not closed on this at all and I was already aware of this web
site. But I do not see anything on that web site that supports your
position that (paraphrasing) thicker oil is "better".
I really did not just make this stuff up, and am really only
paraphrasing what I have learned from those more knowledgeable than
myself. You may want to peruse a discussion that took place on the
ducati monster forum, link provided below. It really has influenced my
opinions on much of this oil viscosity stuff. It is kind of long but
worth wading through in my opinion. Georgecls is a very knowledgeable guy.
http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=36fc0df66a9426b2db68b1ecaca
9b3cd&topic=38314.0
> BTW - the S52US engine is really just a tarted up and larger
> displacement of the very familiar M50 series engines. The redline is not
> significantly higher than a standard M50. Nice engine, but it really
> doesn't have any requirements that a "normal" BMW I-6 engine wouldn't have.
Exactly. And I don't think using a 50 weight oil in an M50/52 engine is
such a great idea either except under very high ambient temperatures
(desert, death valley, etc.) or worn engines.
> The S54 engine (which requires 10W-60) is a different beast entirely -
> the real "euro" engine finally here in the US - with an 8,000 RPM
> redline, solid lifters, oil cooling of the piston skirts and all that
> good stuff, allowing it to make 333HP out of 3.2L almost 100HP more than
> the S52US engine got from the same displacement.
As a point of reference, one of my other (non-BMW) cars is an '03 SAAB
9-3 Vector with a 2.0 liter engine making 210HP. That's actually a
slightly higher HP to displacement ratio than the exotic S54 engine.
Granted, it does so with the magic of forced induction and at lower
RPMs, but it uses only Mobil 1 0W40 oil per the manufacturers
*requirement*. Anything else voids the warranty.
>> The correct Mobil 1 oil to use in the S52 engine is 0W40. It is the
>> only one sanctioned for use by BMW long life 01 standard. It is *not*
>> one of the Extended Performance line.
>
> It meets the modified standards BMW issued to help meet corporate fuel
> economy standards. That doesn't make it a good oil.
I disagree. If they wanted to improve the fuel economy averages they
would have gone to a lower weight oil (xxW-30 or xxW-20). Having an oil
where the first number is smaller does not greatly impact the viscosity
at operating temperature, which is where the fuel mileage is determined .
> If you hang out on
> any E36/M3 forum, you'll hear how people using this particular oil seem
> to experience Vanos problems. Typically using the 15W-50 solves the
> problem.
Well... I have actually experienced the vanos "problem" first-hand on
my 1995 325i M50 single vanos engine.
It is not a "problem" so much as the vanos just gets noisy and the valve
timing advance comes into question. So, running a thicker oil, which
has the effect of increasing oil pressure in a worn engine with
increased bearing tolerances, does in fact quiet down the vanos. But my
experience was when using 5W30 Mobil 1, not 0W40, which is a
significantly heavier oil at operating temps.
>> If you want to use a different oil (non-sanctioned) you should use a
>> full synthetic xxW-40 in summer and can go to a xxW-30 in winter. The
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Wait - I thought you didn't recommend Mobil1 15W-50 since it wasn't
> approved by BMW.... what's this with going against BMW recommendations?
No, I think that you misunderstood me. The basis of my not recommending
Mobil 1 15W-50 is that it is a 50 weight oil and is not optimum for that
engine. The fact that BMW specifies and sanctions only the use of
Mobile 1 0W-40 or their own full synthetic oil for those engines tells
me the engine was designed to operate on that weight oil. Given that I
would say that other 40 weight synthetic oils would/could/should be used
also.
> FWIW - I use Mobil-1 15W-50 in my real BMW (2 wheeled one) - have been
> for a long long time and it is running just fine.
Yeah, and that is probably a good choice for that application.
Hey, lets face it, we aren't talking day and night here, just varying
shades of dusk. I'm sure we could run with either of our
recommendations and, given fairly frequent oil changes, our engines
would both run long and happy lives. But then what would we talk about
on usenet? ;-)

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