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Car Forum / BMW Cars / May 2006Would you accept these discs?
Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look much better than the ones that came off! Click on the photo here and look at the latter photos... http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=103b8m1c.tn7jnes&Uy=-i1ul6 8&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0 Did you measure your old disc? If the rotors are not warped and the disc measure "within specs," then it should be still useable. If not, brake rotors/discs are not that expensive. Change them and enjoy! > Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look > much better than the ones that came off! > > Click on the photo here and look at the latter photos... > > http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=103b8m1c.tn7jnes&Uy=-i1ul6 8&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0 Where did you buy those from? Where were they made? China? Take them back! I wouldn't mount those on my car.  Signature-Fred W >Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look >much better than the ones that came off! > >Click on the photo here and look at the latter photos... > >http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=103b8m1c.tn7jnes&Uy=-i1ul6 8&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0 Are they supposed to be new? SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net It certainly appears that these discs have been installed and used briefly before they were sold to you. It's hard to know exactly what circumstances led to this situation but the reality of it is that these discs look exactly like they would one day after you installed them whether they were 'new' or not. Certainly its not worth the wait and the shipping expense of returning them just to have them be pristine for that one day. Your old discs belong in the recycling yard; put these on the car. >>Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look >>much better than the ones that came off! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Are they supposed to be new? > It certainly appears that these discs have been installed and used > briefly before they were sold to you. It's hard to know exactly what [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for that one day. Your old discs belong in the recycling yard; put > these on the car. But *why* would anyone remove part used discs and return them to the supplier? Warped, perhaps? You pay for new discs - that's what you get. Signature*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > It certainly appears that these discs have been installed and used > > briefly before they were sold to you. It's hard to know exactly what [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You pay for new discs - that's what you get. These were from buypartsby or auto spares group or some other name they trade under and were the "expensive" delphi discs. They look like they've been turned by a ham fisted blind man. I'm concerned that they'll wear funny (like the old ones) if I put them on the car as is and liek you say I paid for new ones so I should get new ones. It loosk like someone else has returned them previously. When I've put new discs on other cars the proper finish on them has certainly lasted more than a day. >>>It certainly appears that these discs have been installed and used >>>briefly before they were sold to you. It's hard to know exactly what [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > When I've put new discs on other cars the proper finish on them has > certainly lasted more than a day. The kicker is that one side is thicker than the other. Those disks are going to warp like a potato chip is no time. Ditch them... Signature-Fred W [...] > These were from buypartsby or auto spares group or some other name they > trade under and were the "expensive" delphi discs. They look like > they've been turned by a ham fisted blind man. I've never warped real BMW disks, every fake has died. A So put them on to see if they spin true. If they are warped you have a real reason to return them. >> It certainly appears that these discs have been installed and used >> briefly before they were sold to you. It's hard to know exactly what [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You pay for new discs - that's what you get. > So put them on to see if they spin true. If they are warped you have a > real reason to return them. You might be happy with returned used goods at full price. I doubt many others would be. Certainly not me. Signature*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. I just think that being overly fussy about the cosmetic appearance of something like a brake disc is silly and just raises the prices for everyone. >> So put them on to see if they spin true. If they are warped you have a >> real reason to return them. > > You might be happy with returned used goods at full price. I doubt many > others would be. Certainly not me. >I just think that being overly fussy about the cosmetic appearance of >something like a brake disc is silly and just raises the prices for >everyone. Being concerned about ventilated discs with different thickness sides, and on the thinner sides looking "like they've been turned by a ham fisted blind man" can hardly be described as "being overly fussy about the cosmetic appearance" Those are not cosmetic faults, they are machining and design faults, which will affect their service life if nothing else. Personally I don't think they were originally made for an E38 740i. Delphi is a reputable Co. I'm sure their pattern discs would look identical to the originals. They would know as well as anyone else with any sense, that the two flanges should be the same thickness. IMO somebody has modified discs designed for a different vehicle. Turning one side so the disc is the right thickness, and runs in the correct place relative to the caliper. It's the only logical explaination of why one side is thinner than the other. One thing I can say for certain. I'd never put similar discs on a car of mine, even if I were given them for nothing, and to charge £40 pounds for them, when equally as good quality new discs can be baught for £35 is just adding insult to injury IMO. Personally I'd send them back, telling the supplier exactly what I thaught of them, and demand my money back, including the return carriage cost. Mike. > I just think that being overly fussy about the cosmetic appearance of > something like a brake disc is silly and just raises the prices for > everyone. You seem to be the minority here Jack. It's not cosmetic. They are either manufactured (or remanufactured) WRONG. The two plates that make up the ventilated disk are supposed to be pf the same thickness. The brakes will not operate correctly when the get hot otherwise. Brakes are not a bling-bling cosmetic part. They are probably the greatest single safety feature effecting how the car will be operated. I would never put crap brake parts like the rotors in those pictures on any car (even yours). Oh, and I don't see how accepting garbage parts at full price somehow lowers the price of parts for others. It just encourages crappy part sellers to continue to sell crappy parts. Signature-Fred W Just to be clear Fred I did say that I would return these parts if they were warped or if the thickness asymmetry was not per spec. I also said that I would not return them for cosmetic reasons such as greasy fingerprints, crumpled boxes, or evidence of being previously installed. Have a nice day. >> I just think that being overly fussy about the cosmetic appearance of >> something like a brake disc is silly and just raises the prices for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > lowers the price of parts for others. It just encourages crappy part > sellers to continue to sell crappy parts. > Just to be clear Fred > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I also said that I would not return them for cosmetic reasons such as greasy > fingerprints, crumpled boxes, or evidence of being previously installed. OK, gotcha. Same here. > Have a nice day. U2 Signature-Fred W > Just to be clear Fred > > I did say that I would return these parts if they were warped or if the > thickness asymmetry was not per spec. Ok, I got some new new discs from brakeparts.co.uk today (they should have arrived yesterday). They look new with cellophane over them although the packaging in general is a bit battered. The faces are perfectly flat with the usual small lines on and they make the delphi ones look like they were made in backstreet turkish shed. However, there's still the difference in thickness between the inner and outer face. I think I'm happy to fit them but I guess if they warp I'll know to go to BMW next time. I usually go to the dealer for discs and this is the first time I've skimped. Incidentally buypartsby.co.uk said they'll take their Delphi discs back but so far I haven't been refunded so that'll be another thing I have to keep an eye on. > However, there's still the difference in thickness between the inner > and outer face. I think I'm happy to fit them but I guess if they warp > I'll know to go to BMW next time. I usually go to the dealer for discs > and this is the first time I've skimped. I always get ATE discs from Eurocarparts. They are OEM makers and the replacements seem identical to BMW ones (as you'd expect), but much cheaper. I've fitted many sets across the years without problems. Except that they don't last any longer than BMW ones. ;-( Signature*Young at heart -- slightly older in other places Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> Just to be clear Fred >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > However, there's still the difference in thickness between the inner > and outer face. Must say it's the first time I've ever heard of discs with different thickness faces. I still can't see how they can adequately cope with the difference in heat absorbtion and dissipation. I think I'm happy to fit them but I guess if they warp > I'll know to go to BMW next time. I usually go to the dealer for discs > and this is the first time I've skimped. I don't think you'll have any problems with them. I've baught 3 pairs of discs from Brakeparts for different cars. They seem at least as good as OEM ones. Mike. > I think I'm happy to fit them but I guess if they warp > > I'll know to go to BMW next time. I usually go to the dealer for discs [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ones. > Mike. Just to hopefully add a final note to this thread, buypartsby (or autospares group or sutton motor factors) picked up the first set of discs and refunded my money with no questions asked but no apology either. I got a confirmation email from brakeparts from their whizzy website in which it said if I had any questions to email them back. Well I did email them but heard nothing at all so it seems yet another company that claims to have wonderful customer service but fails to back it up. > It certainly appears that these discs have been installed and used briefly > before they were sold to you. It's hard to know exactly what > circumstances led to this situation but the reality of it is that these > discs look exactly like they would one day after you installed them > whether they were 'new' or not. They certainly don't look thay way to me. To me they look like well worn discs that need replacing. Unless the camera is lying, the second from last pic clearly shows the inner flange considerably thinner than the outer, and the last shot appears to show that side to be well worn with grooves.. Certainly its not worth the wait and the shipping expense of returning > them just to have them be pristine for that one day. Your old discs > belong in the recycling yard; put these on the car. My advice would be for the OP to send them back, and buy a new pair. Good make 740 pattern discs can be baught for around £35 each. I'd certainly rather fit new discs rather than the s/h and well worn ones he's baught. No matter how good they are supposed to be. Mike. > They certainly don't look thay way to me. To me they look like well worn > discs that need replacing. Unless the camera is lying, the second from last [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > he's baught. No matter how good they are supposed to be. > Mike. These were 40+vat which is pretty much the same as everywhere. I guess the discs were cast then turned down on one side, badly, to make them the required thickness. Mike G wrote: > They certainly don't look thay way to me. To me they look like well worn > discs that need replacing. Unless the camera is lying, the second from [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > he's baught. No matter how good they are supposed to be. > Mike. These were 40+vat which is pretty much the same as everywhere. I guess the discs were cast then turned down on one side, badly, to make them the required thickness. No way. Both sides should be the same for even heat distribution. The ones you have have worn that way. The price I gave was for new Bremtech discs from http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/ Mike. > These were 40+vat which is pretty much the same as everywhere. I guess > the discs were cast then turned down on one side, badly, to make them [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/ > Mike. The discs are more or less the 30mm nominal width but I agree it doesn't seem ideal to have one thick side and one thin one. The thickness difference apparent in the last photo can not be the result of wear because the pads do not extend all the way to the edge. They were manufactured this way. > Mike G wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/ > Mike. > The thickness difference apparent in the last photo can not be the result > of wear because the pads do not extend all the way to the edge. They were > manufactured this way. I don't think you can make that assumption. Sure the pads don't extend over the inner and outer edge of a disc, but having the facilities at work, on occasion I've just machined the ridges off, before fitting new pads. I'd suspect that has been done to the ones shown. Either that or they are ones made for a different car, that have been machined on one side to achieve the correct mounting flange to disc centre dimension. IOW they've been bodged to fit. I wouldn't be happy fitting them to my car,especially when brand new good quality Bremtech ones can be baught for less money. I have Bremtech front discs on my Toyota Celica GT4 turbo, and they're fine. I'll certainly not worry about putting them on my E34 when they need replacing in a few months time. Mike. Mike G wrote: > They certainly don't look thay way to me. To me they look like well worn > discs that need replacing. Unless the camera is lying, the second from [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > he's baught. No matter how good they are supposed to be. > Mike. These were 40+vat which is pretty much the same as everywhere. I guess the discs were cast then turned down on one side, badly, to make them the required thickness. Just to add to my earlier post. New discs are never turned. They're always ground. It's the best way to get a smooth and true surface. The marks on the ones you've baught are certainly caused by wear. Mike. > Mike G wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The marks on the ones you've baught are certainly caused by wear. > Mike. 'Baught' strange spelling (not typo as done twice) > 'Baught' strange spelling (not typo as done twice) One of Mike's endearing little foibles. ;-) Perhaps it's an old english past tense spelling? Signature*Windows will never cease * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> 'Baught' strange spelling (not typo as done twice) > > One of Mike's endearing little foibles. ;-) Thank you Dave, but it's not really my fault you know. :-) Problem is that baught looks more right to me than bought, so I don't notice it in the way I normally notice spelling mistakes. If I were picked up on it more frequently maybe I could get out of the habit. Come to think about it I make the same mistake with brought, but it's not a word I use as much. > Perhaps it's an old english past tense spelling? Or maybe it's a long forgotten alternative spelling which might allow me to continue using it. Must check. :-) Mike. >>> 'Baught' strange spelling (not typo as done twice) >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > to continue using it. Must check. :-) > Mike. You can't try that one unless you're 96 or older! (and then I'd hope you weren't messing with brake discs - or for that matter even driving!). If you're going for the phonetics, surely it should be bawt or bort? But then we'd be getting into SMS language and that's destroying our illogical old English as each day passes. Just you see the state of the Oxford dictionary in 10 years. Actually - on the OP subject of discs, I note many responses are going on about the fact the inside and outside sections of the disc are not equal thickness. As far as I know - this is not necessarily wrong. I haven't played much on BMW's yet as up to recently I was a VW man - but some Gold models have this and when this is the case, the inner brake pad is smaller implying that the inner calliper applies less pressure than the outer - meaning less wear and therefore thinner disc section. Are your brake pads the same size? If not and the smaller one works on the thinner section - that seems OK to me. Best David > Actually - on the OP subject of discs, I note many responses are going > on about the fact the inside and outside sections of the disc are not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pad is smaller implying that the inner calliper applies less pressure > than the outer - meaning less wear and therefore thinner disc section. Huh? Care to explain the physics of that feat? The caliper squeezes the disk (rotor) between the two pads. Also, if the pad is of a smaller size, given the equal pressure applied on either side of the disk, the pressure per square inch would actually be higher causing friction and heat generated to be more concentrated. But to get back to the OPs BMW brake design, I am 100% certain that the two halves are intended to be the same thickness. That way the will expand and contract equally. Signature-Fred W > Thank you Dave, but it's not really my fault you know. :-) > Problem is that baught looks more right to me than bought, so I don't notice > it in the way I normally notice spelling mistakes. > If I were picked up on it more frequently maybe I could get out of the > habit. To me I see "au" as either "oh" as in french, or "ow" as in german. Naught for example up north is pronounced "nowt" and you'll find that southern England words have more in leeping with French pronounciation while northern words are more in keeping with German and Scandinavian. To go back slightly OT, the pads are the same size. >> Thank you Dave, but it's not really my fault you know. :-) >> Problem is that baught looks more right to me than bought, so I don't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > southern England words have more in leeping with French pronounciation > while northern words are more in keeping with German and Scandinavian. Yup, due to the influence of the Vikings in central and northern england, and the Normans in the south. We're really just a motley bunch of mongrels. :-) Not that I know much about english history. Just a thaught, spelled with an 'a' you'll notice. As is fraught and caught, so why bought with an 'o'? The pronunciation is similar Mike. > Just a thaught, spelled with an 'a' you'll notice. As is fraught and caught, > so why bought with an 'o'? > The pronunciation is similar > Mike. Because one or more of us motley bunch who thought maybe they could write wrote it down wrong and it's stuck ever since. Some words are spread by the written word so they look the same but sound different and others are spread by speach so they sound the same but look different. >> Mike G wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > 'Baught' strange spelling (not typo as done twice) You're right it's not a typo. If I think about it I spell it right. If I don't, I always get it wrong. I just don't seem to be able to cure myself of the habit. I suppose it's because phonetically an 'a' seems more appropriate than an 'o'. That's my excuse anyway. At least I don't refer to a cars breaks. :-) Mike. >>> Mike G wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > At least I don't refer to a cars breaks. :-) > Mike. LOL - you're right - 'breaks' is positively cringe bringing! > Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look > much better than the ones that came off! > > Click on the photo here and look at the latter photos... > > http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=103b8m1c.tn7jnes&Uy=-i1ul6 8&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0 Dunno where you got those from, but they're certainly not new discs. Were they supposed to be new, or sold as good s/h. Which BTW, they're certainly not. The only suitable place to put those, is in a skip. :-) Mike. > Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look > much better than the ones that came off! > > Click on the photo here and look at the latter photos... I wouldn't install them on my car. They certainly don't look new. -- Cliff > Further to my brake disc upgrade my new discs came but they don't look > much better than the ones that came off! > Click on the photo here and look at the latter photos... http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=103b8m1c.tn7jnes&Uy=-i1ul6 8&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0 Something like this has come up on another group with an E39 540. Seems there are two types early and late. Fit the late ones to an early car and the disc rubs on the caliper... Signature*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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