Car Forum / BMW Cars / June 2006
Are Radar Detectors Useless?
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Bacon - 31 May 2006 08:32 GMT I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting desperate.
Sam Smith - 31 May 2006 11:06 GMT > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar > detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and > instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting > desperate. It might be different in the UK but they are useful in reminding you where the fixed speed traps are but you still have to be on the look out for roving unmarked traffic enforcement vehicles.
The best clue as to where they are usually parked is to look for the straightest, safest piece of road you can find totally away from any housing that hasn't had any accidents.
Why are you bothered if your lawyer buddy 'fixes' them anyway? That sounds very useful. Expensive is it?
--- Sam
R. Mark Clayton - 31 May 2006 15:16 GMT >> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > straightest, safest piece of road you can find totally away from any > housing that hasn't had any accidents. Another good clue is if you can see sign marking the end of or increase in the speed restriction. Naturally as soon as one sees it one will adjust for it (just as one would start slowing down as soon as one saw a stop sign), then just before the sign will be the police van with the tripod in the back. They nearly got me with this with a van with an orange lamp* parked up in front of a 40 sign. Its back doors were open (so marking not visible) and the camera was in the gloom in the back.
Last week I spotted a chap on a footbridge with a very discrete unit. Again aimed at just where the 40 changes to 50mph. Nearest houses ~200m and doubly fenced off from the dual carriageway and the footbridge actually there for crossing it... Yes there had been a tragic fatality at this location - a man jumped off the bridge to commit suicide.
* borrowed from the airport, where they have orange rather than blue lights on top.
Dori A Schmetterling - 02 Jun 2006 18:06 GMT Bar stewards!
DAS
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> back. They nearly got me with this with a van with an orange lamp* parked > up in front of a 40 sign. Its back doors were open (so marking not [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > * borrowed from the airport, where they have orange rather than blue > lights on top. Bacon - 01 Jun 2006 00:11 GMT > > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Why are you bothered if your lawyer buddy 'fixes' them anyway? That sounds > very useful. Expensive is it?
> --- > Sam It is somewhat expensive depending on the speed. I got one going 85mph in a 55mph zone and the fine was $186.50. Fixing it takes care of the points, but they still fine you. By contrast, the one I got going 54 in a 35 was only $79 as it was under 20mph over the limit. As long as my lawyer buddy doesn't get sick of my freeloading, I'm probably better off not spending $400 on a high end detector.
joe_tide - 31 May 2006 11:43 GMT > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar > detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and > instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting > desperate. Mike Valentine has a pretty good explanation of what to expect from modern radar detectors. Click on the links on the left side.
http://www.valentine1.com/
Fred W - 31 May 2006 12:49 GMT > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar > detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and > instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting > desperate. You could just slow down...
 Signature -Fred W
Sam Smith - 31 May 2006 13:03 GMT >> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You could just slow down... Or use public transport.
--- Sam
Richard Sexton - 31 May 2006 19:27 GMT >>> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >>> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Or use public transport. Or get a used Lada.
 Signature Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net
E28 Guy© - 31 May 2006 20:46 GMT > >>> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > >>> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Or get a used Lada. Having been to Missouri a number of times, I'd have to adopt their state motto with respect to your suggestion of finding a used Lada: "Show me." -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; ain't seen *that*)
Dori A Schmetterling - 02 Jun 2006 18:08 GMT An old diesel car -- could be a Merc -- is better for keeping the speed down.
DAS
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> Or get a used Lada. Floyd Rogers - 02 Jun 2006 18:54 GMT > "Richard Sexton" <richard@news.vrx.net> wrote [...] >> >> Or get a used Lada. > > An old diesel car -- could be a Merc -- is better for keeping the speed > down. Bill Gates got to keep driving, back in 1980, after getting 8-12 tickets (never new exactly) in his 911 when they were moving Microsoft from Albuquerque to Seattle. His mother got the judge to let him off if he would drive a Merc 300D exclusively. It was a slug.
FloydR
Dori A Schmetterling - 04 Jun 2006 19:44 GMT No, the 200D -- which I had 1980/2 -- is a slug (60 PS, 1400 kg).
Was still great to drive, especially as it was (my first) company car (working in Germany).
DAS
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[...] drive a Merc 300D exclusively.
> It was a slug. > > FloydR Bacon - 01 Jun 2006 00:14 GMT > > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > -Fred W Never! Actually after each ticket I slow down but then the creep sets in and I gradually get back to full speed in a few days. I can't drive the 330i slow.
Voinin - 01 Jun 2006 01:26 GMT >>> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >>> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in and I gradually get back to full speed in a few days. I can't drive > the 330i slow. Yeah, BMWs just ask to be driven fast. I remember when I had just gotten my first one (a 78 528i) my sister asked me if she could borrow it. I said yes, but she needed to be careful because it wanted to drive fast. She just scoffed at that. When she came back, she spoke with a bit of awe in her voice saying, "You're right! It DOES want to drive fast!"
I have found a solution of sorts to avoid speeding. Cruise control works pretty well. It does keep your foot off the gas pedal. Or you could just drive in southern California during rush hour.
 Signature Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?
Bacon - 01 Jun 2006 03:24 GMT >>>> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >>>> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >works pretty well. It does keep your foot off the gas pedal. Or you >could just drive in southern California during rush hour. I had 1999 Audi 2.8 Quattro, then a 2002 Audi 3.0 Quattro and now a 2006 330i - sports package, 6 speed manual, silver. I never knew what loving a car was, I can't believe I wasted all those years on Audi's.
Jeff Strickland - 01 Jun 2006 00:44 GMT You could try slowing down. I know that hurts, but when one is truly desperate, then painful measures are close at hand.
You need a "wide band" radar detector that detects lots of kinds of "radar". These run FROM about $300. Yes, they work. They don't work nearly as well as pressing the pedal a bit softer though.
> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar > detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and > instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting > desperate. Bacon - 01 Jun 2006 03:28 GMT The utility I derive from fast driving outweighs the sting of the fines. Now when I lived in Atlanta, you couldn't get tickets fixed, seems to be a Missouri racket exclusively. I'm not complaining, but I'm sure State Farm is.
>You could try slowing down. I know that hurts, but when one is truly >desperate, then painful measures are close at hand. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting >> desperate. Rex B - 01 Jun 2006 16:42 GMT > You could try slowing down. I know that hurts, but when one is truly > desperate, then painful measures are close at hand. Well, slowing down is the simple answer. I've found most of my tickets over the years have been less from stretching the envelope as simple inattention. I probably know that the limit drops 10 mph, but I may be distracted at that exact moment and carry my speed an extra 100 yards. Of course, the cops know that and make sure they are scanning that 100 yards. Keep in mind that speeding fines are about revenue collection and not safety, and it's a lot easier to anticipate problem areas. Speedtraps are almost never in areas where safety issues exist. There are a couple of good books out on avoiding tickets that are worth a read. Usually written by ex-cops who help you understand the limitations and the mindset. Cops are creatures of habit, just like the rest of us.
> You need a "wide band" radar detector that detects lots of kinds of > "radar". These run FROM about $300. Yes, they work. They don't work > nearly as well as pressing the pedal a bit softer though. Valentine 1 is still the standard. Now and then another model beats them in a test, but for my money, I'd buy the V1. I just haven't wanted one bad enough to spring for the $400 yet. But I don't drive as much as I used to when I was doing outside sales.
With a good radar detector, a low-profile vehicle and common sense, you can cover a lot of road quickly without attracting LEO attention.
Here in Texas the standard way to handle a ticket is to request deferred adjudication. Same cost as the ticket, but if you can keep from getting another ticket in the same town within 90 days, the ticket does not go on your record. I'm surprised that hasn't gone away.
Richard Sperry - 02 Jun 2006 12:25 GMT I guess you guys don't drive on the I 95 corrador, if you aren't doing at least 80 you will get run over, or off the road, if not shot. Speeding without electornic support is just dumb, and you are just asking for another ticket. The only time I have gotten a ticket in the last 20 or so years, was on the Aprilia, without the V1. Trooper said 100+MPH in a 55 on the ticket. Since I never passed anyone, (road was clear), all I got was a speeding ticket, as opposed to a reckless charge. Anyway court = PBJ. pay the $550 fine and be on my merry way.
Lesson? Buy the detector, and think like a cop.
Fred W - 02 Jun 2006 12:53 GMT > I guess you guys don't drive on the I 95 corrador, if you aren't doing at > least 80 you will get run over, or off the road, if not shot. Speeding [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lesson? Buy the detector, and think like a cop. If you are driving the same speed as the majority of cars on any road you will not get pulled over. You do not need a radar detector unless a) you are driving faster than the crowd - or 2) you are driving on roads with little other traffic.
In the Northeast, even on I95, 10mph over the limit is a given. Driving 75mph on the interstate you will never get pulled over, even if you are the only car on the road. That also happens to coincide with the speed that traffic generally goes. There are some cars that will go faster.
BTW, if you were really driving 100+ on your bike you were most definitely going considerably faster than the average traffic. In most states a reckless charge is usually based on "speed over the limit" only (which is stupid) and does not need to take traffic or road conditions into account.
 Signature -Fred W
Jeff Strickland - 02 Jun 2006 21:03 GMT >> I guess you guys don't drive on the I 95 corrador, if you aren't doing at >> least 80 you will get run over, or off the road, if not shot. Speeding [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > (which is stupid) and does not need to take traffic or road conditions > into account. In Calif., any speed that is 30+ mph over the posted limit is considered wreckless driving. This can get your car immediately impounded.
Dean Dark - 02 Jun 2006 22:48 GMT >In Calif., any speed that is 30+ mph over the posted limit is considered >wreckless driving. ^^^^^^^^^ I'm not going there...
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Fred W - 02 Jun 2006 23:08 GMT >>> I guess you guys don't drive on the I 95 corrador, if you aren't >>> doing at least 80 you will get run over, or off the road, if not [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > In Calif., any speed that is 30+ mph over the posted limit is considered > wreckless driving. This can get your car immediately impounded. zactly!
 Signature -Fred W
Dean Dark - 02 Jun 2006 12:53 GMT >Lesson? Buy the detector, and think like a cop. Here's an Atlanta cop's view of speeding and radar, it was posted elsewhere about a year ago. An interesting writing style... ======================= Awright, glubdammit, enough whining and speculating about how to get out of a speeding ticket. So much has been thrown around that's made me snork my skoal that I've got to toss in my notes. Forget the websites that have scrounged bits and pieces of mis-applied theory and the ones that want to sell you a book. Have a seat on Uncle Juan's lap and lemme tell you how it is. Yeah, right there. Squirm a little, I like it.
First off, if you were speeding, stop whining. You played the game, you got caught. Spare me the "this road was designed for xx miles per hour, this speed limit is arbitrary, you're just trying to make money for the county" etc. etc. Of COURSE I'm trying to make money for the county, numbnuts! Complain to your commissioners if you want; all they care about is that dollar figure on the fines revenue sheet each month.
Second, schmooze it into a warning. Save the vitriol unless you really want a "contempt of cop" ticket. Polite and even toned. Don't swing the other way, either, into begging. Doesn't work, won't tug my heartstrings; I haven't got one. And while I might be bi and willing to sleep with almost anything, I'm not stupid. Put your swaying dugs back in the blouse/tuck your man-missle back into the jeans. If you've got a unique excuse or story- and I mean unique and funny, not the same tired cliches- it might work. I'm a sucker for a good story I haven't heard before. You can try the "I've really got to find a bathroom!" only if you're willing to go the extra mile and actually sh.t your pants. That has worked on me before- I figure anyone that dedicated to getting a warning has gone above and beyond the call of doody.
Third, as has been stated here before, shut the f.ck up. I'm going to ask you "do you know why I stopped you?" and "do you know how fast you were going?" Of course. Statements made by the driver are tasty nuggets in court. Give it your best somewhat bewildered act. "Um, not really... Speeding? Goodness. I thought I was going the speed limit, but..."
Fourth, won't really help, but I thought I'd put it out there, as it seems to be the most popular bit of urban legend: No, I do not have to show you the radar.
Fifth, don't stand out. Don't give me a reason to remember you a month or two later when the case finally drags into court. Be unremarkable.
So, the cocksucker gave you a ticket anyway. Well, now's the time to hope you've got a lazy officer. You have three choices: Bench trial, where it's you, the officer, and a judge; Bench trial with an attorney; or jury trial. Beware attorneys "specializing" in speeding cases... like DUI sharks, they don't give a sh.t if they win or lose. All they want are their fees; as many as they can charge. They're not worried about word-of-mouth referrals, because there's always more fish in the sea. Jury trial can be a double-edged sword: You may find a sympathetic jury; but if you're convicted, it's been my experience that the State or Superior court judge who had to hear your case is tired of "penny-ante" misdemeanors clogging his courtroom and will slam you with the maximum punishment allowable.
Bench trial? OK. Don't put too much hope on the officer not showing up. In some large, busy jurisdictions; possibly. In smaller ones, the judges get testy when officers ignore their subpoenas. Your hope is to attack his foundation. Note that this varies from state to state, but most of them are similar.
First, he'd better have the required paperwork. A radar permit, created by the jurisdiction's government and approved by the Department of Public Safety that lists, in excruciating detail, the roads on which radar is allowed to be run and the posted limits on those roads. A calibration performed by a licensed FCC Radiotelephone Technician once a year. A radar log showing a test of the unit's calibration at the beginning and end of each shift (hint: look for calibration check times that are the same each day. No one can do the test at the exact same time every single day). In Georgia, the violator has to be offered a test of the calibration of the unit on the side of the road before the citation is written. The calibration test, otherwise known as the "manufacturer's recommended daily test" has to be performed as stated in the unit's manual... so he needs to show the manual. The tuning forks also need to have yearly certification paperwork... and ask to see the forks. Do the serial numbers match the ones on the paperwork? Tuning forks go missing a lot; and a lot of officers just grab whatever set they can find. Are the forks chewed up because he's been smacking against something harder than aluminum to make them ring? An FCC license granting permission to operate the radar transmitter. His operator's permit, and any renewal permits. If he's failed to present any of this during his testimony, ask to see it when it's your turn. If the judge is honest, he'll have to throw it out; because the State failed to lay a proper foundation.
Next, in Georgia, there's some other locations that exclude operation of radar. If he's stationary, he has to be visible for 500 yards unless he's in a school zone, marked historical district, or marked residential district. He can't operate on a road with more than a 7% grade. He can't operate within 500 feet of a sign warning that speed detection devices are used in the jurisdiction or a sign warning of a speed change ahead; or within 300 feet of a reduction in speed sign in an urban area (600 feet in a rural area). The speed measured must be more than 10mph over the posted speed limit. IMPORTANT CAVEAT: None of that applies to God's Special People, AKA the GSP, Georgia State Patrol. They can basically run wherever they want.
Next, he has to have a valid tracking history to show that the speed he registered belonged to your car. First is the visual estimate. Part of his training is estimating speeds within +/- 5mph visually. Second is the audio doppler tone. It should be pure and free of distortion and of a pitch that matches his visual estimate. Third is the target speed reading. It should match the visual estimate and doppler tone. If he's running moving radar, the patrol speed displayed by the radar must match his speedometer +/- 1mph. Finally, if he's running same lane radar, he must speed up or slow down and ensure that the target speed reading remains constant; this is the target speed discrimination test. He may also identify your vehicle by listening to the audio doppler as the car passes through the antenna's sidelobe; the audio will drop off and distort as the car passes before finding another target. Very few officers do this, I've found. Did he leave out his tracking history, or was it incomplete? Attack this, as it's how he ensured he tracked the correct car.
If he's dotted his i's and crossed his t's, rotsa ruck. At least you will have the satisfaction of having fought a good fight; maybe 1/2 of 1 percent of people ever bother attacking a foundation or tracking history. Their "testimony" usually makes the judge roll his eyes. Don't be that person.
I present a gruff, jack-booted thug image online. Of course I do... it's far more entertaining to the masses than Dudly Do-Right. Tweaking the noses of folks who get bent out of shape too easily over imagined slights of justice is too enjoyable. But I've certified several hundred officers in this part of the state to run radar and laser, and despite my persona, I can't become that kind of hypocrite. When I write a ticket, I am 100% sure I am correct; or I don't issue one.
But, never fear, Atlanta area denizens. There are 50 lazy cops for every one of me. And now that I'm sergeant in charge of training for my department, I've turned in my jack-boots and traffic car for a desk and a dry-erase board. Highway scofflaws are safe from my privations for now.
Tune in next week when Uncle Juan presents: How To Talk Your Way Out Of A Statutory Rape Charge, or Who Knew They Were Growing Tits On Twelve-Year-Olds Like That These Days (It Must Be The Hormones In Chicken). Now get off my lap or prepare to receive a rogering.
--- juanrico*at*5100bac.net "Forget those trivial inventions like fire, the wheel, the bow and arrow, and the plow. Man didn't become truly civilized until Alex Bell uttered those immortal words, 'sh.t, Watson, I spilled acid all over my balls.' " --John Varley, _Steel Beach_
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Rex B - 02 Jun 2006 16:17 GMT > Fourth, won't really help, but I thought I'd put it out there, as it > seems to be the most popular bit of urban legend: No, I do not have to > show you the radar. I have a bit of a problem with this one. Isn't it a basis of constitutional law that a defendant has a right to examine the evidence against him? Does this not apply to misdemeanors?
Dean Dark - 02 Jun 2006 16:28 GMT >> Fourth, won't really help, but I thought I'd put it out there, as it >> seems to be the most popular bit of urban legend: No, I do not have to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >constitutional law that a defendant has a right to examine the evidence >against him? Does this not apply to misdemeanors? In court, maybe you have that right. For example, the police don't have to show me the woman who says I raped her when they arrest me, but she'd sure better be in court.
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Rex B - 02 Jun 2006 17:30 GMT >>> Fourth, won't really help, but I thought I'd put it out there, as it >>> seems to be the most popular bit of urban legend: No, I do not have to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > have to show me the woman who says I raped her when they arrest me, > but she'd sure better be in court. In a traffic stop, the evidence the cop is using to charge you exists right then, and will be gone when he clears it.
I actually used a version of this to beat a ticket in court about 30 (!) years ago.
I was traveling down a 2-lane road with a posted limit of 30. A cop was traveling toward me, did a U-turn after passing, and stopped me after I had turned right onto a larger highway. Told me I was doing 47 in a 30. I asked to see the reading, and was told he had already cleared it. He took my credentials and went back to hi patrol car. A few minutes later he came back, I signed the ticket, and then he said "If you'd like to look at that reading, you can do that now". Surprised, I walked back and sure enough, it was showing 47. I said "I thought you said you'd cleared it?". He responded " I was able to recall it". In fact, he had clocked traffic on the current road, which was posted at 45 mph. I knew this because he had re-oriented the radar antenna after he stopped me. In court, I confronted the cop with this. He stuttered and stammered so that I almost felt sorry for him. Of course I was found guilty, fined $5 (!). I immediately gave notice of intent to appeal. Appeal court date was set for a few months later. The day before the date, I got a letter from the city stating that the case had been dropped.
Dean Dark - 02 Jun 2006 17:37 GMT >>>> Fourth, won't really help, but I thought I'd put it out there, as it >>>> seems to be the most popular bit of urban legend: No, I do not have to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I actually used a version of this to beat a ticket in court about 30 (!) >years ago. Hey! Don't shoot the messenger.
Juan Rico has been around (mostly the murkier parts of) Usenet for years, and he's consistently been shown to know what he's talking about. There are always exceptions, YMMV, as ever, of course.
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Rex B - 02 Jun 2006 18:53 GMT > Juan Rico has been around (mostly the murkier parts of) Usenet for > years, and he's consistently been shown to know what he's talking > about. There are always exceptions, YMMV, as ever, of course. I found it interesting. Does he have a website?
Dean Dark - 02 Jun 2006 19:17 GMT >> Juan Rico has been around (mostly the murkier parts of) Usenet for >> years, and he's consistently been shown to know what he's talking >> about. There are always exceptions, YMMV, as ever, of course. > >I found it interesting. Does he have a website? Yes, but it isn't automotive-related. E-mail me if you really want to know what it is, lest I get flamed for being OT.
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Jeff Strickland - 02 Jun 2006 21:01 GMT >I guess you guys don't drive on the I 95 corrador, if you aren't doing at >least 80 you will get run over, or off the road, if not shot. Speeding [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lesson? Buy the detector, and think like a cop. I live along the I-15 cooridor leading into San Diego County, and I also have to do 90 or die. I've been passed by the cops while doing 85, so I know they tend ot be a bit on the lenient side on occasion. Clearly, I am not a saint when it comes to observing traffic laws, but I've failed to attract attention to myself by lifting off the Go Pedal when I am not on the interstate. I think the OP hasn't got the descretion that I've got. He suggested that he has gotten several tickets, and is looking for a way to beat them or not get them in the first place. If one is prone to getting tickets, then one must be prone to speeding in places where the cops are not happy about it.
If this rationale is accurate, then it seems that slowing down is the premier action to be taking. The secondary action would be to go out and buy one of the multi-band radar detectors, the Valentine 1 was suggested in another post, that costs somewhere in the $400 range.
Dean Dark - 02 Jun 2006 22:52 GMT >If this rationale is accurate, then it seems that slowing down is the >premier action to be taking. The secondary action would be to go out and buy >one of the multi-band radar detectors, the Valentine 1 was suggested in >another post, that costs somewhere in the $400 range. I bought the Escort Solo S2 a year or two ago to replace an older Passport and the difference is night and day. It's saved my a.s many times over and has paid for itself I don't know how many times.
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Tom K. - 04 Jun 2006 01:10 GMT > I bought the Escort Solo S2 a year or two ago to replace an older > Passport and the difference is night and day. It's saved my a.s many > times over and has paid for itself I don't know how many times. I believe the current Solo costs $329. While my original and S2 Solos have saved me at least 3 times that amount over the years, a good detector works well when you have a keen awareness of your surroundings (other traffic, likely location of police, usual signals from other sources, etc.)
Tom K.
Bacon - 03 Jun 2006 15:53 GMT > I live along the I-15 cooridor leading into San Diego County, and I also > have to do 90 or die. I've been passed by the cops while doing 85, so I know [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > one of the multi-band radar detectors, the Valentine 1 was suggested in > another post, that costs somewhere in the $400 range. I think this is true. I've received all the tickets since I got the 330 in December. Like I said earlier, I've owned Audis for several years and am like a child with a toy in the BMW. Driving fast all the time is laughably risky, from a ticket and safety perspective. I like all the comments on zones and areas to watch out for and spotting cops. Last road I was pulled over the cop used radar so must have been in plain site but I didn't even notice him. So it's pick and choose carefully your situations to punch it up into the 90's, but be rational. I will tell you though, with no consequences of points or insurance rate increases due to "fixing" in Missouri it sure makes that difficult.
mcquarrie - 03 Jun 2006 17:22 GMT > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar > detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and > instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting > desperate. The OP asked "Are radar detectors useless?". The replies seem to be more focused on dealing with tickets and fines and law enforcememt and and and.
NOT counting people who sell radar detectors, who has the informed opinions about whether radar detectors work? I wish Consumer Reports would test them...
Jeff Strickland - 03 Jun 2006 17:47 GMT >> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > opinions about whether radar detectors work? I wish Consumer Reports > would test them... CR does test them, and they like the Valentine One. It is on the pricey side, but it seems to work very well.
I haven't tried, but I would suppose that one could locate test reports on the 'net. The key, as I understand it, is to buy a detector that can see all of the various bands that the cops are known to use. All devices on the cop's side MUST transmit a signal that you must be able to receive in time to adjust your behavior before the cops get a lock on your enthusiastic driving style.
HINT When the cop is hiding where he can observe you driving away from him, your adjustment of speed by vigorous application of the brake pedal -- as evidenced by the brake lights -- is probably more of an admission of guilt than recognition that you need to knuckle under and get with the program.
mcquarrie - 04 Jun 2006 19:51 GMT > >> I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > >> where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > evidenced by the brake lights -- is probably more of an admission of guilt > than recognition that you need to knuckle under and get with the program. mcquarrie - 04 Jun 2006 19:55 GMT What I meant to say was...
> > CR does test them, and they like the Valentine One. It is on the pricey > > side, but it seems to work very well. I think you are mistaken, sir. According to the Consumer Reports website I subscribe to, they have never tested radar detectors;
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/customer-service/helpfaqs-no-reports-availabl e/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=8&searchTerm=radar
Maybe you can post details of the test which "liked" the Valentine 1?
Jeff Strickland - 04 Jun 2006 20:32 GMT > What I meant to say was... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Maybe you can post details of the test which "liked" the Valentine 1? Sorry, no details. I just thought I remember reading a report from them. Assuming I really did read the report, it must have been done by another group. Sorry if I have misinformed the group.
Tom K. - 04 Jun 2006 21:02 GMT >> What I meant to say was... >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Assuming I really did read the report, it must have been done by another > group. Sorry if I have misinformed the group. IIRC, either (or both) Car & Driver and/or Road & Track magazines did tests a while back and gave top ratings to the Valentine. That's probably what Jeff was thinking of.
Tom K.
XrayMD@doctor.com - 05 Jun 2006 00:55 GMT I have used many models of radar detector over the past 20 years and my favorite for the last 14 or 15 has been the Valentine1 (and no I don't work for them and neither does anyone in my family, etc.)
As to do they work...of course they work. What you may be referring to is radar jammers. The vast majority of radar jammers out there are considered "passive" jammers that purport to scramble the radar signal somehow and send back a scrambled signal to the police radar gun. These DO NOT work...don't waste your money. Defeating radar would require an "active" jammer and you can find some of these, BUT, they are quite illegal.
There are also laser jammers that work well. Jammers that have an actual laser tranducer (eg Lidatek) work very well, but the ones that reky on LED's do not work as well, if at all in some cases. I can tell you that my Lidatek system has saved me from getting tickets about 8 or 10 times since I ourchased the system. It has more than paid for itself when you consider the fine of the ticket + increased insurance fees that would have occured with getting a ticket.
As far as the Valentine1, what their advertisement says is true. Once you use the V1 and get used to the directional arrows, you won't want to use any other detector. It shows you not only how many signals it's receiving, but whether they are coming from in front, behind or to the side of you. This info is invaluable in figuring out what's going on. As with any system, it does require some thought on the driver's part to distinguish false from real alerts. Things like door openers in grocery stores can give a strong signal, but you will know how many signals the unit is receiving and also what radar band they are. This has saved me. I know that on a certain road I drive frequently, the openers at the grocery store give off 4 radar signals in the X band. One day I'm driving and the detector goes off as usual, with the arrows telling me the signal(s) is coming from up ahead. But, I the "bogey" counter tells me that there are 5 signals this morning AND the audio warning gives me indication that a Ka band signal is present. Because this isn't usual for this spot, I slow down considerably and as I drive past, I see a police car with radar hiding in the parking lot. He knew that most detectors wouldn't let the driver know there was anything there but the door openers.
I won't drive without one.
Mike Patterson - 03 Jun 2006 18:36 GMT >I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar >detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and >instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting >desperate. I just KNOW that responding to this is gonna jinx me, but... I'm finding that as I get older I'm getting fewer and fewer tickets.
Gave it some thought last month and decided there are a number of factors involved:
A radar detector (at least in my case) causes you to stop using your senses and intuition as you rely on the box to do your thinking for you.
Develop the habit of watching traffic very carefully - look for brake lights ahead of you and people flashing their high-beams. This is not only safe for your wallet, it's better for your cardiovascular system, in that you are likely to be able to use it longer.
Look for cars/people/objects on overpasses. Often means Bad News.
Ditto small aircraft/helcopters lazing along the line of the highway. VASCAR will bust you and no radar detector in the world can prevent it. Been there myself, in the SE Missouri switchbacks.
Don't drive fast for long periods, keep it to short bursts where you can see far ahead and there is little/no traffic. (This may not apply out West.)
Follow your instincts - if you have a nagging feeling, it may be your subconscious noticing things your forebrain missed.
Never go faster than 3-4 mph over the limit in urban/suburban areas. It just isn't worth it. Save your lead foot for the open highway.
Keep a lid on it late at night. Police know that there is a +60% chance that virtually ANYONE they pull over after midnight has had a couple of drinks, so that is a major hunting time for them. Unfortunately that's also the time when you feel like kicking up your heels. Resist the urge.
HTH Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. "I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin
Bacon - 03 Jun 2006 21:42 GMT >>I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri >>where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >Please remove the spamtrap to email me. >"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin Luckily I quit drinking well before I got the 330. Otherwise I'd be in a lot more trouble than just speeding. The jinx is a nasty thing. I probably hadn't had a ticket in 10 years before this wave. I like the posts with suggestions on being more alert and knowing the ripe situations to slow down. I don't like the look of a radar detector suction cupped to the windshield, I don't think the ladies dig it.
Jeff Strickland - 04 Jun 2006 23:10 GMT > Luckily I quit drinking well before I got the 330. Otherwise I'd be > in a lot more trouble than just speeding. The jinx is a nasty thing. > I probably hadn't had a ticket in 10 years before this wave. I like > the posts with suggestions on being more alert and knowing the ripe > situations to slow down. I don't like the look of a radar detector > suction cupped to the windshield, I don't think the ladies dig it. Dude, the chicks dig it. They absolutely cream their jeans at the idea of speeding wrecklessly down the road without a care of who might appear from the side.
Get the radar detector, any of them, and the little suction cup holder thingies, and the chicks will flock to your car.
Dean Dark - 04 Jun 2006 23:34 GMT >Dude, the chicks dig it. They absolutely cream their jeans at the idea of >speeding wrecklessly down the road without a care of who might appear from I'd far sooner speed wrecklessly than recklessly, but will the chicks dig it as much?
 Signature Dan.
Jeff Strickland - 05 Jun 2006 14:01 GMT >>Dude, the chicks dig it. They absolutely cream their jeans at the idea of >>speeding wrecklessly down the road without a care of who might appear from > > I'd far sooner speed wrecklessly than recklessly, but will the chicks > dig it as much? Good point. I'm not sure, but they like the little suction cup holders for the radar detector.
> Dan. Mark D - 05 Jun 2006 17:14 GMT > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar > detectors were left over from the 70's and all the different bands and > instant on stuff cops use makes them ineffective. But I'm getting > desperate. In Pennsylvania where I haven't seen any use of laser yet, and liberal use of Instant On, a good detector goes the distance!
My buddy has the Escort Passport X2 or whatever (like $300) and I have the Beltronics Vector 995. Both of these are equally good detectors, and if you have active police, it's WORTH THE MONEY!
I used to use cheap $100 detectors. And they work. They do, but they work so poorly they are useless. The sensitivity is really really low and they false a lot. Here's a situation for you.
I was traveling down in North Carolina and I got a ticket with rolling radar (something I'm not used to in PA) for 96 in a 55 (back country road). I went before the DA and got it reduced to sub $100 and no points. I was fully expecting like a $500 ticket and have had a ticket fund for some time. Since I didn't get raped, I decided to spend hard cash on one of the best radar detectors money can buy. Now if you know anything about NC, you'll know even big box stores are far and few between near the vacation spots. So I had to buy this $80 Cobra unit at walmart. This thing was spiffy and had a lot of cool features, but it didn't seem to be very sensitive AT ALL. A permanent sign installation would only tweak 2 bars out of like 8! I returned it promptly when I got home and bought the Beltronics unit. OH MY GOD. I had NO IDEA! There's a very VERY serious difference between the low end units and hte high end units.
Take this for example. A low end unit might get a fixed radar installation (sign, etc) from a couple hundred feet away. The beltronics will get it for MILES away, even over hills! cops like to use instant on anymore. This is guaranteed death for the low sensitivity units, but even miles away when there's no cars immediately in front of me, I catch the cop poking at other people. This unit has saved me SO MANY TIMES where "paying attention" just wouldn't have worked. Cops hiding behind barriers, unmarked foreign cars, not enough traffic to "look for brake lights", etc
Now, you have to know how to use the detector, you have to pick out the difference between falses and not, and most importantly you have to OBEY the detector. Once you have it and it falses sometimes you get into the habit of wanting to ignore it. But when you see that low strength K band alert, that seems random, THAT IS IT, THAT is when you want to slow down. And sometimes you look like a fool dropping down slower than everyone else, right after you just made a fuss about the guy lagging in the left lane, but sometimes you'll be the one laughing home without a ticket.
Ethics of detectors aside, people should realize that this is your bottom line. It's your money, and it's your insurance rating. Nobody is going to protect you but you, so by all means, get an expensive AMERICAN MADE detector. I know where I'm from, most of the accidents are caused by:
Drunk people, slowbies being so bored they don't even pay attention when merging, people who simply can't handle an emergency situation (poor training), and vehicles which really suck (Chevy Impala v6 spins almost immediately on emergency braking)... the common theme that i see is that all of these very dangerous drivers are driving near the speed limit. In my opinion the police are lazy because of the radar guns and don't look for real issues.
My opinion is that someone who is a verifiably good driver, in an excellent well maintained vehicle with performance tires and brakes (an M3 for instance), who is paying close attention to the road which is NOT filled full of traffic should be exempt from the current speed laws, but since that's not going to happen due to the soccer moms having fits, the radar detector is the best defense.
You know if everyone else did their jobs as well as speed enforcement cops, this world might not suck so much.
Thanks, Mark
Bacon - 05 Jun 2006 17:28 GMT > > I've gotten 4 tickets in the last 6 months. Luckily I'm in Missouri > > where your lawyer buddy "fixes" them. I've always thought radar [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > Thanks, > Mark A very good read, thanks Mark.
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