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Car Forum / BMW Cars / July 2006"BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine"
BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm > BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine > at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm Road test of it in this week's Autocar. Reckon it's as fast as an M3 in day to day conditions - you don't have to wring its neck to get some performance.  Signature*Always drink upstream from the herd * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine > at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm Article says: " BMW says that it has deliberately gone away a little bit from a pure sporty character and that a lot of attention has been given to comfort "without giving up sportiness." " wrt its softer suspension....sounds like a "Mercedes" compromise! Hehehe.....not sure if this is the way to go, as this is a BMW coupe not a sedan....but I guess it has to appeal to different segments and clientele to maximize marketability Also I have a question here: why is it that BMWs and Mercedes have this electronic speed limiter? Porsche AFAIK does not have one, is that correct - although there is a 'top track speed' in its specifications....Not sure if this is right... does it have to do with the tires, or is it an agreement between the BMW-MB to prevent people racing down the autobahn at insane speeds? >Also I have a question here: why is it that BMWs and Mercedes have this >electronic speed limiter? Porsche AFAIK does not have one, is that >correct - although there is a 'top track speed' in its >specifications....Not sure if this is right... does it have to do with >the tires, or is it an agreement between the BMW-MB to prevent people >racing down the autobahn at insane speeds? Pretty much. My understanding it, and I don't have an authoritative source for this, but I understand it's a gentlemens agreement to limit top speed for the reason stated above. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >>Also I have a question here: why is it that BMWs and Mercedes have this >>electronic speed limiter? Porsche AFAIK does not have one, is that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > but I understand it's a gentlemens agreement to limit top speed for > the reason stated above. Well, there is an interest at the factory to not blow the motor into tiny bits. The motor is protected at red line, and top speed in 5th gear is pretty close to red line. I think it's about 250 rpm below red line. What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: "The acceleration from 0-60 mph takes 5.3 seconds with the 335i and 6.2 seconds with the 328i. The limited top speed of both the 328i and the 335i is 130 mph. With the optional Sport Package on the 335i, it is 150 mph. " Very respectable # btw. Sports package - used to be sports seats, more 8-way adjustable, M-tires, or M-suspension (depends on sports pkg or M-pkg), so how is this related to limited top speed? Maybe the tires or something..... > >>Also I have a question here: why is it that BMWs and Mercedes have this > >>electronic speed limiter? Porsche AFAIK does not have one, is that [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > bits. The motor is protected at red line, and top speed in 5th gear is > pretty close to red line. I think it's about 250 rpm below red line. > What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > M-tires, or M-suspension (depends on sports pkg or M-pkg), so how is > this related to limited top speed? Maybe the tires or something..... The Sport Package includes a 150 mph limiter vs. the normal 130. Tires are summer performance instead of "all-seasons". http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/futurevehicles/new3coupe/techdata.htm Tom K. > > What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Tom K. That's my point though - not sure how a sports package will get a 150 mph limiter vs a 130 mph one i.e. what's preventing a 328i or 335i without a sports package from achieving 150 mph? Other specs look comparable. Unless BMW has to deliberately detune the engine for business purposes. Perhaps like Mercedes SL/CL 55's not same power as SLK/CLK 55? >> > What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: >> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > business purposes. Perhaps like Mercedes SL/CL 55's not same power as > SLK/CLK 55? Software. The ECU is programmed to begin limiting engine output (through the same process the rev limiter does) as the speed is reached. It's not absolutely precise (you may achieve 152 or so). The engine just goes soft, speed drops off a couple mph and you're done. BMW religiously follows the German Gentleman's Agreement regarding top speed: 155. Particularly for the US market, they limit speed as well for legal reasons. They're concerned some idiot will fit speed rated tires inappropriate for the car's performance and then sue when the tires fail at speed, hence limits below 155 on some cars. Dinan, Conforti and others modify ECU software to improve performance. One of the mods is the removal of the top speed limiter. R / John > >> > What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: > >> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > R / John Personally I wouldn't remove the speed limiter - don't get a chance to drive that fast anyway. INteresting though the article says, "The limited top speed of both the 328i and the 335i is 130 mph. With the optional Sport Package on the 335i, it is 150 mph. " so without the sports package the 130 mph is way more than gentlemen. > That's my point though - not sure how a sports package will get a 150 > mph limiter vs a 130 mph one i.e. what's preventing a 328i or 335i > without a sports package from achieving 150 mph? Other specs look > comparable. Unless BMW has to deliberately detune the engine for > business purposes. Perhaps like Mercedes SL/CL 55's not same power as > SLK/CLK 55? The speed limiter is built into the engine ECU. It can be programmed out by specialists. Signature*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > That's my point though - not sure how a sports package will get a 150 > mph limiter vs a 130 mph one i.e. what's preventing a 328i or 335i > without a sports package from achieving 150 mph? Other specs look > comparable. Unless BMW has to deliberately detune the engine for > business purposes. Perhaps like Mercedes SL/CL 55's not same power as Actually - it is. BMW is making noises about the "activating of the features" for quite some time now. Wanna +30Hp? Just go to the dealership, write a nice check and get them "activated". And the twin turbo which is living under the bonnet of the 335i comes very handy. Recently I saw a very interesting article in the "Aftersales", an internal newspaper for bmw emploees, dealers etc. It was discussing "activation" technology for the "value added options". As first example they mentioned "Night Vision", which you can order even after you buy the car. But it will only work after it is "activated". The dealership sends your VIN, the serial number of the camera and gets the activation key, which enables this particular camera to this particular car. They said they want to extend this in other areas as well. I think, that the biggest problem is the reliable encryption, yet foolproof enough to be suitable to be used remotely. Actually I dont like it, since the next logical step is subscription. "+30Hp for the next 20000 miles or 2 years for just a $2000". "$300 for an annual subscription of Navigation". "$100 for the next 10000 miles with cruise control"..... > What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: > "The acceleration from 0-60 mph takes 5.3 seconds with the 335i and 6.2 > seconds with the 328i. The limited top speed of both the 328i and the > 335i is 130 mph. With the optional Sport Package on the 335i, it is 150 > mph. " > Very respectable # btw. > Sports package - used to be sports seats, more 8-way adjustable, > M-tires, or M-suspension (depends on sports pkg or M-pkg), so how is > this related to limited top speed? Maybe the tires or something..... I don't understand the 'voluntary' speed restrictions makers apply in the US. Surely the standard tyres are rated way above these limits? Signature*It's this dirty because I washed it with your wife's knickers* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I don't understand the 'voluntary' speed restrictions makers apply in the > US. Surely the standard tyres are rated way above these limits? In the US, they furnish H rated tires for the standard car. That is 205/55R16. The speed limit for H tires is 128 mph. It would not be a good idea to let the car exceed the tire rating. Jim > In the US, they furnish H rated tires for the standard car. > That is 205/55R16. The speed limit for H tires is 128 mph. > It would not be a good idea to let the car exceed the tire rating. In the UK there is a blanket speed limit of 70 mph - no exceptions - yet the cars come with tyres suitable for the actual top speed of the car. Signature*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > In the US, they furnish H rated tires for the standard car. > > That is 205/55R16. The speed limit for H tires is 128 mph. > > It would not be a good idea to let the car exceed the tire rating. > > In the UK there is a blanket speed limit of 70 mph - no exceptions - yet > the cars come with tyres suitable for the actual top speed of the car. One buys a car fit for purpose. whether you choose to use it on the road or not is up to you. I would guess there is european legislation as there are parts of germany at least where it's possible to legally do the top speed of the car. > > In the UK there is a blanket speed limit of 70 mph - no exceptions - > > yet the cars come with tyres suitable for the actual top speed of the > > car. > One buys a car fit for purpose. whether you choose to use it on the > road or not is up to you. I would guess there is european legislation > as there are parts of germany at least where it's possible to legally > do the top speed of the car. Wonder what tyres cars for the US - but picked up personally in Germany - are fitted with. ;-) Signature*The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging! Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. What I don't understand is this from the article quoted: "The acceleration from 0-60 mph takes 5.3 seconds with the 335i and 6.2 seconds with the 328i. The limited top speed of both the 328i and the 335i is 130 mph. With the optional Sport Package on the 335i, it is 150 mph. " Very respectable # btw. Sports package - used to be sports seats, more 8-way adjustable, M-tires, or M-suspension (depends on sports pkg or M-pkg), so how is this related to limited top speed? Maybe the tires or something..... > >>Also I have a question here: why is it that BMWs and Mercedes have this > >>electronic speed limiter? Porsche AFAIK does not have one, is that [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > bits. The motor is protected at red line, and top speed in 5th gear is > pretty close to red line. I think it's about 250 rpm below red line. I gather it's a 'gentleman's agreement' among BMW, Merc and some (not all, obviously) others to limit the speed to 250 km/h (155 mph happens to be the miles equivalent). Nothing to do with tyres or motors. I think the main reason is to head off German government moves to introduce a national speed limit on motorways and to stop mostly untrained drivers driving so ridiculously fast on public roads. I have been at (an indicated) 220 km/h in my 3.2 l car, but for no more than a few seconds because other traffic gets close mighty fast and I wasn't prepared to overtake at that speed. I wonder what might happen if I had to take unexpected action.... <shudder> DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Well, there is an interest at the factory to not blow the motor into tiny > bits. The motor is protected at red line, and top speed in 5th gear is > pretty close to red line. I think it's about 250 rpm below red line. >I gather it's a 'gentleman's agreement' among BMW, Merc and some (not all, >obviously) others to limit the speed to 250 km/h (155 mph happens to be the >miles equivalent). Nothing to do with tyres or motors. I think the main >reason is to head off German government moves to introduce a national speed >limit on motorways and to stop mostly untrained drivers driving so >ridiculously fast on public roads. Probably correct. Porsche seems to be the only non-participant. U.S. market cars all have V-rated or better tires as original equipment. But there are idiots who will fit poor quality aftermarket rubber to the cars and then can find idiots with law degrees to represent them after their folly results in some mishap. Then the idiot lawyers in robes allow the litigation to proceed to 12 more idiots who believe the money they award to the original idiot and his representative (30% plus costs for a fee) comes from a "rich corporation" whose wealth comes not from doing business with citizens like themselves, but from a source similar to that of the manna of Exodus. The bard had it right. > I have been at (an indicated) 220 km/h in my 3.2 l car, but for no more > than a few seconds because other traffic gets close mighty fast and I > wasn't prepared to overtake at that speed. I wonder what might happen if > I had to take unexpected action.... <shudder> I've seen a needle-width over 240 (approx 150mph) in my old toy. Several miles of desert road with zero traffic. I've gone faster on the ground, but only with the intention of taking off or immediately following touchdown. The F-4 had pretty high liftoff and touchdown speeds. R / John >The bard had it right. Yes, but you may not have. You might want to look up the original quote. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net Henry VI, Part 2. "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." Shakespeare's characters viewed the lawyers as an impediment to their plot. Now that lawyers number over 1,000,000 in the U.S. alone, they are an impediment to EVERYTHING. Why lawyer jokes don't work: Lawyers don't think they're funny and everybody else doesn't think they're jokes. R / John > >The bard had it right. > > Yes, but you may not have. You might want to look up the original quote. (top posting corrected) >> >The bard had it right. >> >> Yes, but you may not have. You might want to look up the original quote. >Henry VI, Part 2. "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." >Shakespeare's characters viewed the lawyers as an impediment to their plot. http://www.howardnations.com/shakespeare.html "...Ironically, the rallying cry of the lawyer bashers has become Shakespeare's quote from Henry VI: "THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET'S KILL ALL THE LAWYERS." Those who use this phrase pejoratively against lawyers are as miserably misguided about their Shakespeare as they are about the judicial system which they disdain so freely. Even a cursory reading of the context in which the lawyer killing statement is made in King Henry VI, Part II, (Act IV), Scene 2, reveals that Shakespeare was paying great and deserved homage to our venerable profession as the front line defenders of democracy. The accolade is spoken by Dick the Butcher, a follower of anarchist Jack Cade, whom Shakespeare depicts as "the head of an army of rabble and a demagogue pandering to the ignorant," who sought to overthrow the government. Shakespeare's acknowledgment that the first thing any potential tyrant must do to eliminate freedom is to "kill all the lawyers" is, indeed, a classic and well-deserved compliment to our distinguished profession. Today's Jack Cades can readily be found throughout the insurance industry and in manufacturing, pharmaceutical, and chemical companies. They want to dismantle the tort system. They want to disrupt the judiciary and abrogate the common law, to the detriment of the rights of individual citizens, consumers, and injured persons who deserve competent representation and adequate redress for harm done to them." No, I'm not a lawyer. >Now that lawyers number over 1,000,000 in the U.S. alone, they are an >impediment to EVERYTHING. Uhh, yeah. You look stunning in that tinfoil hat. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net > (top posting corrected) > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Uhh, yeah. You look stunning in that tinfoil hat. The appearance of the law profession amidst a society might well be the first sign of that society's progress into civilization. When that society allows that profession to co-opt every facet of its existence, that civilization faces its demise. My position is not that lawyers are bad, but rather that too many lawyers is bad. American society would be seriously damaged if all lawyers were eliminated. But reducing their number to one suitable to handle the Jack Cades and officiate over normal civil and criminal proceedings would be beneficial. The proliferation of the lawyer class which began in the sixties resulted in thousands of underemployed practitioners who would either starve, find a different profession, or develop a market for their chosen profession. The result was the latter. For every triumph by lawyers getting the bad guy (Vioxx perhaps, the Pinto fuel tank for sure) there are other examples that are heinous (breast implant suits, BMW's failure to report minor shipping damage repairs). Classes are represented and rewarded without any knowledge on their part. (I got 62 cents for a "defective" microwave the manufacturer repaired prior to the lawsuit ... an award for my "inconvenience," not for any damages to me ... while the law firm made a couple million. I refused to cash the check.) Lawyers who lose in court threaten appeal unless a settlement is made (if I do something like that to you, it's extortion, if a lawyer does it to you, you're screwed). The maintenance of an overlarge legal profession places a hidden tax upon every member of society. It's rolled into the cost of everything from groceries to health care. Some of that cost is truly beneficial (less likelihood of spoiled groceries?), but much is not (tons of food is wasted, charity organizations don't get yesterday's bread). Litigation is a growth industry. Mass execution of the lawyer class is a ridiculous rallying cry to what is a real problem. The only solution is to make it harder to become a lawyer (with a million of 'em, it's hardly an elite group) and allow attrition to follow its course. Not likely. Or perhaps you're looking forward to a world in which every human interaction requires legal counsel (we'll need ten million of them)? Better take your hat back. It's more flattering on you. R / John >The maintenance of an overlarge legal profession places a hidden tax upon >every member of society. It's rolled into the cost of everything from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Mass execution of the lawyer class is a ridiculous rallying cry to what is a >real problem. The only solution is to make it harder to become a lawyer No, it certainly not the *only* solution. We don't have the problem here in Canada you yanks do down there largely due to the reasons that a) the loser pays the winners legal fees and b) contingency payments aren't legal up here (I don't think, I'm fuzzy on this) So, it's not the lawyers per se it's the framework in which they operate. Keep in mild also the US is unique in the world in one respect: most countried, especially in Europe put artists, scientists etc on their currency. All the faces on American paper money are lawyers. So to some extent one is tempted to say "what do you expect when a country is by, of, and for the lawyers". SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net > >The maintenance of an overlarge legal profession places a hidden tax upon >>every member of society. It's rolled into the cost of everything from [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No, it certainly not the *only* solution. Point well taken. As their proliferation occurred through a rather bizarre form of supply-side economics, demand must be reduced. The contingency system has its benefits, the little guy can take on the big guy. It might be reasonably limited (I don't think the lawyer and his client should enjoy the windfall profit of punative damages ... they're essentially society punishing the wrongdoer, society should benefit). Loser pays would be interesting, but I suspect contingencies would just be modified to account for the additional risk to the litigator (say 50% plus expenses instead of the relatively standard 30%). Within minutes after I read your post, I was assaulted by a tv ad from a law firm trolling for class members (faulty pacemakers and diffribulators). Sigh. We don't have the problem > here in Canada you yanks do down there largely due to the reasons that > a) the loser pays the winners legal fees and b) contingency payments > aren't legal up here (I don't think, I'm fuzzy on this) Or perhaps you just have a smaller percentage of litigators? > So, it's not the lawyers per se it's the framework in which they operate. > > Keep in mild also the US is unique in the world in one respect: most > countried, especially in Europe put artists, scientists etc on their > currency. All the faces on American paper money are lawyers. Washington - no Jefferson - yes Lincoln - yes Hamilton - yes Jackson - yes Grant - no Franklin - no Lincoln (perhaps Hamilton) was the only one who made his primary mark in the practice of law. Of course, if you go to the higher denominations, lawyers do prevail. Only Woodrow Wilson ($100K) was not (an academic instead). > So to some extent one is tempted to say "what do you expect when > a country is by, of, and for the lawyers". Well, I guess I could always claim my dual citizenship. R / John >Within minutes after I read your post, I was assaulted by a tv ad from a law >firm trolling for class members (faulty pacemakers and diffribulators). >Sigh. Uh, yeah. and let's not forget "Dr. Legal" in the Aileen-what's her face serial killer trial. >> a) the loser pays the winners legal fees and b) contingency payments >> aren't legal up here (I don't think, I'm fuzzy on this) > >Or perhaps you just have a smaller percentage of litigators? I don't know. It would be interesting to see that statistic. I have a sense it's about the same frankly. >> Keep in mild also the US is unique in the world in one respect: most >> countried, especially in Europe put artists, scientists etc on their [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Grant - no >Franklin - no Right, nw try to find a Eropran country with a picture of a lawyer on its money. >> So to some extent one is tempted to say "what do you expect when >> a country is by, of, and for the lawyers". > >Well, I guess I could always claim my dual citizenship. I always did whe I lived in the US :-) I don't dislike the US, it's 10X bigger in population in Canada. Your good people are oh so good but jeez you sure got some whackjobs down there. I have a lot oa lawyer friends but they're the rare "good" ones that do much more good than harm and are equally disgusted by the things you are, ergo cries of "kill all the lawyers" seems to me to ne a non-starter, or to put it another way, go ahead but please don't kill mine. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net > U.S. market cars all have V-rated or better tires as original > equipment. But there are idiots who will fit poor quality aftermarket > rubber to the cars and then can find idiots with law degrees to > represent them after their folly results in some mishap. So you can fit poorer quality 'spare parts' not approved by the car maker, and then sue that maker when things go wrong? Seems mad to me... Signature*When blondes have more fun, do they know it? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> U.S. market cars all have V-rated or better tires as original >> equipment. But there are idiots who will fit poor quality aftermarket [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So you can fit poorer quality 'spare parts' not approved by the car maker, > and then sue that maker when things go wrong? Seems mad to me... In the U.S., you are entitled to a risk free life and every adverse occurrence must be blamed on someone else. R / John >> BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine >> at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the tires, or is it an agreement between the BMW-MB to prevent people > racing down the autobahn at insane speeds? I'm not sure I understand the premise of your question. The speedometer has no bearing on the Top Speed. The speedo simply reads what you are telling the car to be doing. The speed limiter kicks in with or without an electronic speedometer. Why spin a speedo needle with a cable when you can pick up the data electronically from the main computer and display it? Speed is needed by the computer for many different functions, collecting speed data electronically makes it easier to distribute the data to the places where it is used. I don't know about Porsches, but I would be surprised if they do not use an electronic speedo. And, if one bothers to actually work the numbers, one would find that top speed and red line arrive at pretty close to the same time. Limiting engine speed to below red line seems to make lots of sense to me, doesn't it make sense to you? >>> BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine >>> at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > telling the car to be doing. The speed limiter kicks in with or without an > electronic speedometer. Maybe I missed something, but where is "speedometer" mentioned in this thread? > And, if one bothers to actually work the numbers, one would find that top > speed and red line arrive at pretty close to the same time. Limiting > engine speed to below red line seems to make lots of sense to me, doesn't > it make sense to you? For some (but not all) the current BMW cars limited to 155, this is close to redline in 5th, not the OD 6th. Tom K. >>>> BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine >>>> at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Maybe I missed something, but where is "speedometer" mentioned in this > thread? Sorry, I read Electronic Speed Limiter as electronic speedometer. My bad ... >> BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine >> at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the tires, or is it an agreement between the BMW-MB to prevent people > racing down the autobahn at insane speeds? The sensible mass market German manufacturers have sort of agreed not to compete on this, and if the cars are limited their government does not bring in an overall speed limit... > The sensible mass market German manufacturers have sort of agreed not to > compete on this, and if the cars are limited their government does not bring > in an overall speed limit... However, the agreed Euro 'limit' is 155 mph. Signature*I get enough exercise just pushing my luck. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >BMW 3 Series Coupe gets new engine >at http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060706-012226-5661r.htm My Supra TT will still take it. 8) |
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