 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / BMW Cars / August 2006Low profile wider tires noisier?
Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. I find the front noisy. It has Continental Tires. Is this normal? There is no vibration felt so I'm thinking it might not be the balancing. The rears don't have so much noise and have Toyo Proxess. >I find the front noisy. It has Continental Tires. Is this normal? There >is no vibration felt so I'm thinking it might not be the balancing. Which conti's? Some tires ARE noisy. Tirerack.com has a lot of user feedback on various tires and while not 100% authoriative it's good for trends. If nearly everyone else find the tires noisy then you know it's a good chance these are just noisey tires. If they doin't, well, uh... I dunno. To quote Richard Welty "turn the radio up".  SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net > Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s > with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The rears don't have so much noise and have Toyo Proxess. Lower profile and wider - likely to be noisier and give a harsher ride. > Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s > with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. Ah! So you're one of those rare people who prefers even *more* understeer than the average BMW brings to the table! > I find the front noisy. It has Continental Tires. Is this normal? There > is no vibration felt so I'm thinking it might not be the balancing. > > The rears don't have so much noise and have Toyo Proxess. Why the hell would you have not only two different *sizes* of tires, but two entirely different *brands* of tires on your car? Are you being stupendously cheap or are you just dumb? -- C.R. Krieger (Tried that only when I was desperate enough.) <snip> > Why the hell would you have not only two different *sizes* of tires, > but two entirely different *brands* of tires on your car? Are you > being stupendously cheap or are you just dumb? > -- > C.R. Krieger > (Tried that only when I was desperate enough.) Actually, I did that quite on purpose on a Civic as a cheap way to bring massive understeer under control... JRE > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > JRE Really? So how would one induce oversteer on a front wheel drive car? This one I want to see... Signature-Fred W > >> Why the hell would you have > >> two entirely different *brands* of tires on your car? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Really? So how would one induce oversteer on a front wheel drive car? > This one I want to see... He didn't say *overcome*. He said "bring ... under control". You could definitely influence the extent of the understeer tendency in a FWD car by doing this. You could conceivably achieve some slight oversteer. I know that a race-prepared GTi I drove some years ago exhibited slight oversteer - or at least a lot more than I got out of my 'street' Toyota FX-16. In fact, oversteer is rather easy to induce on a FWD with a good rear wheel handbrake. I used to be able to do 180° 'bootlegger turns' with mine. =8^D -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that) >>>>Why the hell would you have >>>>two entirely different *brands* of tires on your car? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > exhibited slight oversteer - or at least a lot more than I got out of > my 'street' Toyota FX-16. Good point, he did say that. When I think of getting understeer "under control" I think of getting the car to oversteer, but I suppose getting it close to neutral would qualify. > In fact, oversteer is rather easy to induce on a FWD with a good rear > wheel handbrake. I used to be able to do 180° 'bootlegger turns' with > mine. =8^D Hah!! I knew someone would bring up the ole' handbrake move. Signature-Fred W >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Really? So how would one induce oversteer on a front wheel drive car? > This one I want to see... Oddly enough, early 90's Civics (along with some Acuras of the same approximate age) were prone to *snap* oversteer if you lifted from full throttle suddenly while cornering at the limit without widening the line or hitting the brakes briefly (but hard). This is a bugaboo for some drivers in autocrosses. (Did they spin on corner entry? This is probably why.) But the point is that putting better tires on the front (they did wear out first, after all) helped considerably to reduce the usual massive understeer. The car was gone before I ever replaced the rears. JRE >> Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s >> with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Why the hell would you have not only two different *sizes* of tires, My E34 has 235/45 ZRx17" on the front, and 255/40 ZRx17" on the rear. The fronts on 8" rims. The rears on 9" rims. Those sizes are listed as an option in the E34 Owners Handbook. So having different width wheel rims would appear to be quite acceptable. Mike. >>> Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s >>> with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > So having different width wheel rims would appear to be quite acceptable. > Mike. Yes, acceptable for those wishing to indulge in increased levels of understeer. The car understeers by default with same sized tires on all 4 corners, how could putting wider rubber on the rear do anything but increase it? All that said, if you never drive the car beyond 8/10ths you would really never notice a difference... Signature-Fred W >>>> Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s >>>> with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > corners, how could putting wider rubber on the rear do anything but > increase it? Swings and roundabouts IMO. All cars have an element of u/steer. However, accelerating hard out of a bend in a RWD car often provokes o/steer. More grip on the rear can mean more power can be applied before that happens. It's all a question of balance. I've never taken my E34 on a track, (with M-Tech suspension as well as the M-Tech wheels) but after 2.5 years of ownership, I would say there are no adverse effects from having more rubber at the rear. Even when driven hard. Mike. > "E28 Guy©" <88.535is@gmail.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Those sizes are listed as an option in the E34 Owners Handbook. > So having different width wheel rims would appear to be quite acceptable. It is, depending on the car. I was actually trying to build to a superlative conclusion and I have to admit it didn't work so well. My real point is, you would not normally use different *brands* of tires front and rear unless you were: a) cheap or b) ignorant or c) both. Even with a staggered setup, you would preferably not only use the same make but the same *model* and *age* of tire to maintain a consistent differential of performance between them. It seems to me that using a set of R compounds in the rear with a set of 70,000-mile 'rocks' up front would be a recipe for terminal incurable understeer, regardless of their sizes. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; didn't like that) > Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s > with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. > > I find the front noisy. It has Continental Tires. Is this normal? There > is no vibration felt so I'm thinking it might not be the balancing. I have 17" ContiSportContact tyres all round on my E34. I dont hear any tyre noise. Mike. > > Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s > > with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I have 17" ContiSportContact tyres all round on my E34. > I dont hear any tyre noise. OTOH, since he didn't mention a model as you did, for all we know, 'bimbim' has a set of Contis that normally go on a Jeep. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that) >> > Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s >> > with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > OTOH, since he didn't mention a model as you did, for all we know, > 'bimbim' has a set of Contis that normally go on a Jeep. Good point. That would make a difference. :-) Mike. I replaced 225/55x15s on my '94 325 with a set of 225/45x17s. I took Michelins off and installed Kuhmos. I did not notice an increase in road noise. Later, the car was totaled and I bought a '94 325 convertible that came with 16s -- a 205 size that I do not fully recall. In any case, I went to the body shop and took the set of 17s from the wrecked car and mounted them on the replacement car. I did not notice any increase in road noise on this car either. This car had Continentals on it if I recall correctly. What I did notice on both cars is that the speedometer is now accurate within 2 mph at 85 mph. It still reads on the faster than I am really going, but not as much faster as it used to read. PS You WANT the speedo to read fast, so it says 80 before 80 really happens. The logic is that if you were limited to 70, and the car was going faster than 70 when the speedo said 70, then you would be exposed to a ticket. But if the speedo read 70 when you were really doing 67, you would have a small margin to insulate you from the ticket givers. > Hello all. I have just replaced my stock 15"s on a 95 325i with 17"s > with 8" on front and 81/2" on the rear. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The rears don't have so much noise and have Toyo Proxess. Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) To give you all a few more facts to base your responses from, the wheels and tires were off of my brother's 98 Z3 who went for 18"s. These Z3 wheels are staggered 17X8" and 17X81/2" with these tires: Front Continental ContiSportContact 225/45R17, Rear Toyo Proxes-T7-S 245/40ZR17. As I have always felt that 15" wheels are a bit boring nowadays, I decided to put these wheels on my '95 325i to give it a more sporty look knowing that staggered setup is fine for E36s. And it did look nice. Not too much as I think of 18"s. However, I find the front tires a bit noisy. Though most passengers doesn't seem to mind or hear it, I being like one with the car am not sure if that is acceptable. If it is the Contis, then I might get a pair of Proxes to replace it. The rear Proxes are almost new. The front Contis are about 7/32. As somebody mentioned "oversteering", I did feel changes on the car steering. Seemed more sensitive, and seem go with wavy-uneven asphalt road stretch that I usually take. Thanks for your more sensible insights. > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > However, I find the front tires a bit noisy. As I wrote in an earlier post. I have almost the same front tyres on my car. A '94 525i E34. The only difference being that mine are slightly wider at 235/45ZR17. Though most passengers > doesn't seem to mind or hear it, I being like one with the car am not > sure if that is acceptable. If it is the Contis, then I might get a > pair of Proxes to replace it. The rear Proxes are almost new. The front > Contis are about 7/32. As I also wrote, I don't find the Conti's particularly noisy. With the windows shut I don't hear the tyres at all. Maybe you're being oversensitive, or the possibly the tyres just don't suit the car > As somebody mentioned "oversteering", I did feel changes on the car > steering. Seemed more sensitive, and seem go with wavy-uneven asphalt > road stretch that I usually take. Sounds like you're experiencing 'tramlining'. A problem that can occur when wider tyres are fitted. Are the wheel and tyre sizes listed as acceptable alternatives for your car, and is the wheel offset correct? Mike. > > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > alternatives for your car, and is the wheel offset correct? > Mike. If I go to tirerack.com they recommend 17X8" +40 on front and 17X9" +45 on rear with same tire sizes I have now. My rear wheels is +41, I can't remember the front. Thanks. >> > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) >> > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > If I go to tirerack.com they recommend 17X8" +40 on front and 17X9" +45 > on rear with same tire sizes I have now. I think you've got that the wrong way. I'm sure the profile should be 45 on the 8" rims, and 40 on the 9" rims. My rear wheels is +41, I can't > remember the front. If you don't know you should certainly check. Incorrect offsets can really compromise the handling of a car. Especially with front wheels. It could be the cause of the change in the steering feel. Mike. > >> > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) > >> > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > the cause of the change in the steering feel. > Mike. I have checked the front offset and it's +41 too. Thanks. >> >> > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> > Front Continental ContiSportContact 225/45R17, Rear Toyo Proxes-T7-S >> >> > 245/40ZR17. >> > If I go to tirerack.com they recommend 17X8" +40 on front and 17X9" +45 >> > on rear with same tire sizes I have now. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I have checked the front offset and it's +41 too. Thanks. AFAIK, all E36's have a 35mm positive offset front and rear. On the Z3 the offset is 41mm, so although the wheels from a Z3 will physically fit on an E36, they are bound to affect the steering. Ideally the wheel offset should be the same on front wheels as the offset of the wheel mounting face on the hub, so the steering geometry stays the same. Mike. > AFAIK, all E36's have a 35mm positive offset front and rear. On the Z3 the > offset is 41mm, so although the wheels from a Z3 will physically fit on an > E36, they are bound to affect the steering. > Ideally the wheel offset should be the same on front wheels as the offset of > the wheel mounting face on the hub, so the steering geometry stays the same. > Mike. I thought they were more like 44 or thereabouts depending on the width. >> AFAIK, all E36's have a 35mm positive offset front and rear. On the Z3 >> the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I thought they were more like 44 or thereabouts depending on the width. AFAIK the offset of a wheel allows the centreline of the wheels to be in the correct position relative to the offset of the hub wheel mounting face. IOW, no matter how wide the rims are, providing the offset is the same as that of the hubs, their c/line stays the same. With rear wheels it's not so important, but a different offset on front wheels must affect the steering, as in effect you are altering the steering geometry. Whether the alteration is acceptable, is something else. Mike. >>> AFAIK, all E36's have a 35mm positive offset front and rear. On the >>> Z3 the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > the alteration is acceptable, is something else. > Mike. You are probably right as that makes a lot of sense. Signature-Fred W > AFAIK, all E36's have a 35mm positive offset front and rear. On the Z3 > the offset is 41mm, so although the wheels from a Z3 will physically fit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > stays the same. > Mike. I would think that the offset should increase with the wheel width... Signature-Fred W >> AFAIK, all E36's have a 35mm positive offset front and rear. On the Z3 >> the offset is 41mm, so although the wheels from a Z3 will physically fit [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I would think that the offset should increase with the wheel width. The offset has nothing to do with wheel width. The offset of a wheel is the dimension between the mounting face and the c/line of the wheel rims. Mike. > > I would think that the offset should increase with the wheel width. > > The offset has nothing to do with wheel width. > The offset of a wheel is the dimension between the mounting face and the > c/line of the wheel rims. > Mike. As the wheel gets wider one starts to run out of room one side or the other so there is usually some adjustment to the offset. For an E36 the following are listed as original fitment... 6X15 offset of 42 7X15 offset of 47 7X16 offset of 46 7.5x17 offset of 41 > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) > > To give you all a few more facts to base your responses from, the > wheels and tires were off of my brother's 98 Z3 who went for 18"s. If you got them from a Z3, they are not X5 wheels. The Z3 tires and rims should be interchangeable with the other 3 Series cars. The stagger, in and of itself, is not necessarily a problem, and the stagger numbers you cite are normal stagger for the 3 Series cars. > > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cars. The stagger, in and of itself, is not necessarily a problem, and the > stagger numbers you cite are normal stagger for the 3 Series cars. Thanks all to your wonderful insights, they are all valid. Yeah, I think the new offset should be acceptable, also it should have a little effect on steering. I think I'm getting used to the noise. I seem to hear it more when my windows are closed as there is no outside noise to mask it. I also looked closely on the stretch of asphalt road I take, and it's unbelievably wobbled. The lanes have raised bumps on the sides perhaps either it was pushed up or the usual tire track deepened. These are at minimum an inch high. I think the switch to wider tires has made these bumps more apparent. I needed to be more alert on steering when changing lanes. > > > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > think the new offset should be acceptable, also it should have a little > effect on steering. The "new offset" is exactly the same as you'd get with those size wheels intended for an E36. X5 wheels have a similar offset but you can't get the range of widths for 17" X5 rims. >> > Holy sh.t! I think I got X5 wheels!?? :) >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > bumps more apparent. I needed to be more alert on steering when > changing lanes. On a flat road the effect of wider tyres is not usually very noticeable. On an uneven road at times, the weight of the car might be only on the outside or inside edge of the tyres. That alters the self centreing effect of the steering, tending to bias it one way or the other, resulting in the tramlining effect you mentioned in an earlier post. Mike. <snip> I needed to be more alert on steering when > changing lanes. That's the spirit. High Performance attention for a performance car with performance tires. Me thinks you're starting to get Performance Driving. <hehehe> Seriously, I think you're gonna like the new tires in the long run. If I was doing it, I think I would NOT have done the stagger, that way I'd have more options with rotating and such. Having said that, I do not generally rotate my tires. I had a brand spanking new spare tire in the trunk that was more than 10 years old. Now, I have a brand spanking new spare tire that is 2 years old. But, my spare is the same size as all 4 tires on the ground, so I can have a flat on any corner and my spare will do the trick ... > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > performance tires. Me thinks you're starting to get Performance Driving. > <hehehe> Or get the suspension checked and aligned. > Seriously, I think you're gonna like the new tires in the long run. If I was > doing it, I think I would NOT have done the stagger, that way I'd have more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > years old. But, my spare is the same size as all 4 tires on the ground, so I > can have a flat on any corner and my spare will do the trick ... If you're into performance rotating tyres isn't generally done as the wear pattern on the front usually doesn't give good results when placed on the rear. As long as you have a spare that actualyl fits on all four corners it doesn't really matter what the main road wheels are. Hahaha. It's crazy true. First you get nice rims and tires. Next you're thinking of upgrading exhaust and intake...Thanks! BTW, will a stock M3 exhaust give me some benefit? > > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > As long as you have a spare that actualyl fits on all four corners it > doesn't really matter what the main road wheels are. > Hahaha. It's crazy true. First you get nice rims and tires. Next you're > thinking of upgrading exhaust and intake...Thanks! > > BTW, will a stock M3 exhaust give me some benefit? I believe so |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.