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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / May 2008Car alarm installers rant
Okay, first off don't laugh at me too bad, but the factory alarm in my 1997 Civic EX is starting to act up. I decided to check around and see what the locals charged to put an aftermarket alarm in. Well, I called around and was shocked to see that NONE of my local shops do starter disables any more. Even more shocking was that the labor they charged was about $100 to $175 just to install the freaking alarm. I am thinking that since my particular model of Civic is a little higher on the theft list, I probably should either consider an alarm with starter disable or a couple of well hidden fuel pump cutoff switches. What use is an aftermarket alarm going to be to me if the thief gets in, pops the hood, cuts the siren, then drives off with the car that doesn't have the starter disable connected? Maybe I am overly paranoid, but I think those installers are doing a great disservice to their customers by NOT connecting the starter disable when they install the alarm and charge $175 (or more) to do it. On the other hand, I could just replace the Honda factory units, but, I don't want to pay premium prices for old school technology. After getting used to hooking my IPOD up to an Alpine head unit, it kind of makes CD changers and cassette tapes a thing of the past! Plus, I bet I can install an Alpine head unit and an aftermarket alarm myself for way less than the cost of the Honda factory radio and alarm module! Okay rant off, but the bottom line I am trying to get at is can someone tell me why none of the local installers do starter disables when they install alarms? Is it because the newer vehicles have chipped keys or are they just lazy? (...) >Okay rant off, but the bottom line I am trying to get at is can someone >tell me why none of the local installers do starter disables when they >install alarms? Is it because the newer vehicles have chipped keys or >are they just lazy? Hmm.. because most aftermarket car alarms on the market today already come equiped with a starter disable system?!?! > (...) >> Okay rant off, but the bottom line I am trying to get at is can someone [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hmm.. because most aftermarket car alarms on the market today already > come equiped with a starter disable system?!?! Yeah, but I had three different installers at different shops tell me they haven't connected the starter disable in years. When I asked one of them why, he said there are too many problems when the starter disable is connected to the vehicle. He even was arrogant enough to say the alarm was enough to keep the vehicle from getting stolen, even though the starter disable wasn't connected. Don't get me wrong, I know an alarm isn't fool-proof, but sheesh, I can't believe that no one locally utilizes the starter disable feature. Heck, with a couple of thieves working in tandem, that alarm would sound for a couple of seconds before the siren wire was cut, then they could proceed to do what is needed to boost the car without even having to worry about the alarm system. Even worse, if I know that most of the shops in my area don't connect the starter disable circuit, I am sure the thieves know this too! Kind of scary if you think about it. I haven't installed an alarm since 1993 yet I feel I could competently connect the starter disable circuit. I am older now, and I hate twisting into those strange positions required to install an alarm, but, to ensure I get the features I want, I may have to make an exception! >> (...) >>> Okay rant off, but the bottom line I am trying to get at is can someone [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >twisting into those strange positions required to install an alarm, but, >to ensure I get the features I want, I may have to make an exception! What a bunch of lazy a.ses. Like I said before most aftermarket alarms have starter kill system. It's a simple circuit interuption from your ignition to the starter s-terminal. Do it yourself. >>> (...) >>>> Okay rant off, but the bottom line I am trying to get at is can someone [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >have starter kill system. It's a simple circuit interuption from your >ignition to the starter s-terminal. Do it yourself. I never even imagined using the starter as a cutoff. I use a fuel pump cutoff switch in any I installed. Like it was said, you can spend a lot of time doing it right. I my dad's old Honda, installed a cutout. I put in a hidden magnetic switch inside the dash. Now all you have to do is put the magnet in the right spot to get it working. I used a relay inside the engine compartment, and made a valet jumper for that. For real valet all you have to do is leave that mysterious magnet in place. greg I don't get it either - starter kill is relatively simple to connect and AFAIK almost all alarms still have the feature and probably even include the relay and harness to make it easy. Usually the toughest part is determining the right wire to interrupt (although wiring diagrams for most cars simplifies that), and extracting it from its bundle to make the connections. Only times I've ever seen a "problem" with a starter kill relay is when the install is sloppy and the connections poor, or when it's wired for fail-secure operation (where it breaks the connection and the alarm being disarmed re-enables the starter) and the brain dies. A fail-safe wiring (where the relay makes the connection by default and the alarm going off breaks it) shouldn't have any issues with the brain dying. $100-$175 for an install isn't outrageous, if it's a properly-done install - we're talking fused power wire run right to the battery, relays on the light flash circuit, power-lock tie-in, brain well-hidden inside the dash rather than just zap-strapped to the steering column, etc. A quick'n'dirty install will just tap everything into the under-dash wiring and will cost a lot less, but also be less reliable (ie. more easily defeated). > Okay, first off don't laugh at me too bad, but the factory alarm in my > 1997 Civic EX is starting to act up. I decided to check around and see [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > install alarms? Is it because the newer vehicles have chipped keys or > are they just lazy? > I don't get it either - starter kill is relatively simple to connect and > AFAIK almost all alarms still have the feature and probably even include [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > under-dash wiring and will cost a lot less, but also be less reliable > (ie. more easily defeated). Unfortunately, most of the "professional" installs I have seen from the local shops have a brain that is easy to find and they will even mount the valet switch on the steering column. The majority of them are just tie wrapped to either the steering column, or the factory wiring harness that runs to the steering column. Very sloppy to say the least! The last time I installed an alarm, I disassembled the dash, took extra care to reroute wires, and hid the brain. I used solder and heat shrink tubing on all my connections and it was extremely difficult to tell where the brain was due to the fact that all my wires were integrated into the factory wiring bundles/harnesses/etc. The whole process took about a day, but it was done right. car alarms...lol. are the stupidest people alive. i see all these car alarm people setting alarms outside stores.when theyll be back in 10minutes. plus theres CAMERAS in big store parking lots!!!!!!! > car alarms...lol. are the stupidest people alive. > i see all these car alarm people setting alarms outside stores.when > theyll be back in 10minutes. plus theres CAMERAS in big store parking > lots!!!!!!! How do you suggest protecting a vehicle that is on the top 10 most stolen list then? A good thief can be off and running with YOUR car in 30 to 60 seconds. Hell, some of the local car thieves even have tow trucks. Right now they seem to be targeting LS1 Camaros/Firebirds/Trans-Ams, but that could easily change to other vehicles. Store Cameras.... are you friggin serious? Bwhahahahahahahaha! All that will do is show the police that someone made off with your car. Then a few hours later, the police will find it stripped down to the frame, usually torched. Insurance - what a joke because they give you the lowest possible dollar for your total loss. My last vehicle that was declared a total loss resulted in a check that was $9,000 BELOW blue book. The club? Ever seen a hacksaw go through a steering wheel? How about a steering wheel, with the club still attached, left in the parking spot of the vehicle that had the club on it? I am open for other suggestions to protect a car on the top 10 most stolen list. Please give me your infinite wisdom Mister Wald! >> car alarms...lol. are the stupidest people alive. >> i see all these car alarm people setting alarms outside stores.when [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I am open for other suggestions to protect a car on the top 10 most > stolen list. Please give me your infinite wisdom Mister Wald! Need to enclose the car in a force-field! > Need to enclose the car in a force-field! No sh.t. One of my police officer friends told me how sophisticated the thieves were regarding the LS1 thefts in the state. He then went on to tell me how the thieves have tow trucks in the New Orleans area, and seem as though they are towing vehicles for legitimate reasons. Uniforms, papers, you name it. Although I can't stop someone from stealing my car, I want to make the bastard work to take mine! I already have a super stealth car alarm install planned where the brain won't be where a thief would expect it to be (unless he feels like disassembling the interior of the car) and I am thinking of going with a non-traditional method to prevent the vehicle from running, in addition to the starter interrupt! The only downside to this is I easily see my install taking close to 16 hours due to the re-routing of the wires and the not so standard location of the brain. No shop around here would take on that monumental task, plus it wouldn't be worth the labor they would charge anyhow! (...) >No sh.t. One of my police officer friends told me how sophisticated the >thieves were regarding the LS1 thefts in the state. He then went on to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >brain. No shop around here would take on that monumental task, plus it >wouldn't be worth the labor they would charge anyhow! In addition to hiding the brain, you should consider a backup battery and a few backup sirens. A hidden alarm brain alone is useless if the battery wire is cut or removed. > (...) > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > and a few backup sirens. A hidden alarm brain alone is useless if the > battery wire is cut or removed. Could even rig up a decoy/delay - basic tripping of the alarm sets off a standard, obvious under-hood siren with the intent to scare the would-be thieves away... cutting power to the alarm initiates a 10-15 second delay, after which the alarm triggers again off the backup battery, setting off two or three other hidden sirens (maybe a couple 120dB "pain generator" piezos inside the the cab, too). > (...) > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > and a few backup sirens. A hidden alarm brain alone is useless if the > battery wire is cut or removed. Oh, I am definitely going with a battery backup! Every alarm I ever installed had one, so this will be no exception. I am also going to use a couple of pain generators inside the cabin, as Matt suggested! That delayed trigger is also a good idea. Of all the ironies, a friend of mine who works as an installer at Best Buy has been telling me what I should do! He said that they, Best Buy, don't do starter disables because they were forced to pay too many tow charges, yet he told me that I need to disrupt the starter AND something else (fuel pump and/or ECU) because the starter disable would not stop a thief from push starting my car! I just find it ironic that he is making suggestions of how to protect my vehicle yet he doesn't install those protection features as a "professional" installer. >> (...) >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >making suggestions of how to protect my vehicle yet he doesn't install >those protection features as a "professional" installer. I would not ever disable the starter. It gives the thief something to do. Creates a larger noise and time delay. Just disable the fuel or ignition. greg >>> (...) >>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > greg That is what I meant by starter kill.... I usually break the ignition circuit somewhere other than the ignition harness in the steering column. I am of the opinion that splicing close to the key just gives the thief the information he needs to hot wire the car! Hell, 15 years ago I used to base my alarm installs off of the shoddy installs that I saw other "professionals" do! I am still shocked to see that the installs today are just as shoddy, except now they don't even disable the vehicle. I guess the factory immobilizer circuits are supposed to keep the vehicles safe..... Oh wait, I almost forgot that the real thieves already know a way around those too. >> In article <voOdnX06H48Kz4rVnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@giganews.com>, ChrisB > <ChrisB@somewhere.someplace.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >vehicles safe..... Oh wait, I almost forgot that the real thieves >already know a way around those too. You should have your insurance reduced when you have a theftproof device installed. My insurance still has that ever since I installed one long ago. greg >>> In article <voOdnX06H48Kz4rVnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@giganews.com>, ChrisB >> <ChrisB@somewhere.someplace.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > device installed. My insurance still has that ever since I installed one > long ago. Mine as well, although they require that it be a passive-arm device (so you can't "forget" to activate it). Whether you believe it's effective or not, everyone who has an alarm with an immobilizer of some sort should INSIST that the installer connect it, as I believe most insurance companies will give a discount for it. hey maybe i can park a car i have that wont run. n ya thiefs will fix it to steal it.lol > hey maybe i can park a car i have that wont run. n ya thiefs will fix it > to steal it.lol Either that or your Sherwood system from the early 90s will send them running the other way. oh i still got my SHERWOOD xat 3000.. or 3400. not going to look now. i'm waiting to get a car worthy of such greatness..... i might start looking for a used porshe utility vehicle. that some wealthy guy drove it around his house til he got tired. every1 knows porshe is #1 in the world... i never owned 1 yet. > oh i still got my SHERWOOD xat 3000.. > or 3400. not going to look now. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > every1 knows porshe is #1 in the world... > i never owned 1 yet. I wish you luck on the Porsche! One of my friends, an engineer, purchased a restored early 80s 911, and he still ended up dumping over 12k into it to get it running right. After five speeding tickets in one month, his wife started nagging him to sell it. sports car insurance for that musta been ''killer''..... thats why i'm not looking for a sports car porsche.... having a porsche.tell ya friend its knowing its fast not just showing its fast.lol he'll get less tickets too. |
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