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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / December 2003Alpine CDA-9813, Eclipse 3413, Clarion ProAudio DXZ835MP - Which HU Should I get?
Hey everyone. I'm trying to decide which deck to put in my car to replace my stock HU Primary wants: *MP3 capability with ID3 translation. *Decent/Large Display for viewing Text. *Good sound quality, but not willing to pay for super-high end. I'd like to stay around $300 or so. *Ideally the unit will utilize Play Lists and random-play sub folders. *I may very well add a sub or replace stock speakers and add amps, etc, so that flexibility would be nice, but not a priority. I'd prefer it to sound solid as it is without needing to add amps. Right now I'm leaning towards the Alpine, but the feature set of the Clarion is making me hesitate. I understand that Eclipse makes great decks, but, I think I'll be dissapointed in the feature set just to get a little bit better sound quality, if any. Thanks for the thoughts. I'd go with Alpine. I haven't felt Clarion made a solid HU since the original ProAudio heads in 92 and 93 (like my old 6770) no matter how many bells and whistles they put in them. My wife and I both have the 9815 (almost identical to the 9813) and I couldn't recommend them more. The Eclipse IMO does not sound any better then the Alpine (I had a 55430) so go for the Alpine. Paul Vina > Hey everyone. I'm trying to decide which deck to put in my car to > replace my stock HU [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Thanks for the thoughts. I agree with Paul on most of his points. Clarion's HU have been going downhill in the quality dept. sine the early 1990s, Alpine and Eclipse both offer superior sound quality to the Clarion, and sound approx. the same as each other. I personally couldn't get into the Alpine decks only because I didn't like their user interface. Pick whichever of the two you like using more, I love my Eclipse deck. I agre with Steve, Eclipse's user interface is a lot simpler on the 55430 I had but I haven't used either of the new units with DSP so I can't say how easy they are to use. After having my 9815 for a coupl eof weeks it's gotten a LOT easier to use, not nearly as unintuitive as I first thought. Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation of the Commander unit to play back MP3s. If that's a big thing for you look at the Alpine a bit more. Paul Vina > I agree with Paul on most of his points. Clarion's HU have been going downhill > in the quality dept. sine the early 1990s, Alpine and Eclipse both offer > superior sound quality to the Clarion, and sound approx. the same as each > other. I personally couldn't get into the Alpine decks only because I didn't > like their user interface. Pick whichever of the two you like using more, I > love my Eclipse deck. << Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation of the Commander unit to play back MP3s. >> This is true, and the only downside to Eclipse decks like mine IMHO. If what you're looking for is a deck packed with features, with an easy-interface and a "bargin" price, check out Blaupunkt and Pioneer. Alpine and Eclipse will get you better sound quality, but you pay for it, and any added features. Albeit, I haggled my Eclipse CD8443 down to $440 installed, a good price and less than the normal MSRP for both it and the 9815. WOW! That's a great price. I might have gone with an Eclipse for that price. Although, everytime I try another make I always want to go back to an Alpine. In fact, I still regret selling my 7618. Gotta love classic Alpine cosmetics. Paul Vina > << Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation > of the Commander unit to play back MP3s. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > haggled my Eclipse CD8443 down to $440 installed, a good price and less than > the normal MSRP for both it and the 9815. << WOW! That's a great price. >> It took a lot of back and forth banter, and what may count as cheating on my part to get the price. But I didn't hold a gun to anyone for it, and I think the guy who sold me the deck is betting on the hopes that I'll come back to him for the rest of my system. Besides, that shop does huge installs on Lamborghinis, Porsches, Ferraris, BMWs, Audis, etc... all day long. He can afford to sell one deck at cost. It really worked out well for me, I went in figuring it was gonna cost $550-$600 after the install. << I might have gone with an Eclipse for that price. >> It was a hard choice. I liked the sound of both my CD8443 and the CDA-9815. It simply came down to the user interface problems I had with the Alpine. << Although, everytime I try another make I always want to go back to an Alpine. >> I'll use nothing but Alpine and Eclipse as far as decks are concerned. The NAK stuff sounds nice but is far to unreliable, the Blaupunkt stuff sounds almost as good, but not quite, Pioneer doesn't come close, but they are reliable and easy to use. << In fact, I still regret selling my 7618. Gotta love classic Alpine cosmetics. >> I can't stand the way those old decks look. LOL. It's the sound quality I like. Hey Steve: Do you by chance know how much the Commander is (or will be) selling for? Are you going to upgrade to that for Voice Control and MP3 capabilities? If I did upgrade to the 5433/5423, any idea of what I might be able to get one of those for? Considering the fact that you got a great deal, I was wondering if you could tell me how you got it at that price! I'm not going to go with anything that is Bargain price. I want nice features, but don't want to give up good sound and good build quality. That's why I'm now choosing between the Alpine and the Eclipse. The Clarion is out. Too many people saying they are going down hill now. Which is unfortunate, but it's probably their own fault. Thanks. > << Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation > of the Commander unit to play back MP3s. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > haggled my Eclipse CD8443 down to $440 installed, a good price and less than > the normal MSRP for both it and the 9815. << Do you by chance know how much the Commander is (or will be) selling for? >> Not a clue, sorry. << Are you going to upgrade to that for Voice Control and MP3 capabilities? >> The MP3 playback is tempting, however I have no use for the voice control or cell phone handling capabilities. I think I'll just use one of the AUX inputs and buy a portable MP3 player for use in the car. << If I did upgrade to the 5433/5423, any idea of what I might be able to get one of those for? >> If you shop retail stores, expect to pay MSRP or very close to it. You'll get a better deal shopping at a non-chain store that sells only Car Audio equipment. But there's no way for me to give you an exact price. << Considering the fact that you got a great deal, I was wondering if you could tell me how you got it at that price! >> I noticed that The Good Guys! website was having a special - 10% off purchases higher than $299, No Tax, and No Shipping Charges. The problem was, they don't sell Eclipse product through the website, and the a.ses at my local store refused to match the website deal, claiming that the website had exclusive pricing because it was run by someone else for the company. I called Al & Eds (whom I throughly dislike) and told them about the deal, leaving out the part about Eclipse product being unavaliable on the website, and got them to take 12% off the MSRP of the 8443. I then called the shop I actually wanted to buy from, and told him the deal A&E wanted to give me, and in a panic to get my business, he offered me the deck, installed for $440. *laughs* Ya know, I was actually counting the buttons on the different units. I'd really prefer it have MORE buttons than less. Should give me more access to things without looking. I don't mind complex. It keeps people from messing with my settings! Plus, I like a good challenge. I'm really most interested in MP3 capabilities and the display, but I want it to sound good, of course. The Eclipse 3413 does come with MP3 capabilities, though I haven't figured out if it will read ID3 tags, which would be a big issue if it doesn't. Also, I like the fact that the Alpine will play Play Lists and you can search for artists, etc. Pretty nice features, really. A friend at work has an Alpine that he got a couple of years ago and it only shows directory numbers and song numbers instead of text. Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that wasn't necessarily true. Thanks. > I agre with Steve, Eclipse's user interface is a lot simpler on the 55430 I > had but I haven't used either of the new units with DSP so I can't say how [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I > > love my Eclipse deck. > Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to > your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that > that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that > wasn't necessarily true. It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a 10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never, and will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm. Paul Vina Not sure if the B+ lead goes to the battery or not... I've heard that etronics is not an "authorized" Alpine distributor. Would you be concerned about that given that the warranties are only 1 year anyway and that they are well built machines? I can get the 9813 for $285 from Etronics...Though, I'd consider spending a couple more dollars to get the warranty, though, if it's much more I'll have to drop down to the 9811 because it'll go past what I'm willing to spend. Anyone know of a cheap place to get Alpine from an authorized dealer? Thanks. Mike > > Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to > > your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Paul Vina The cheapest I've seen it from an Authorized dealer is $399. Even with my ex-employee discount I would only save $30 or off of retail. There is no margin in Alpine electronics. Their speakers are another matter entirely though. Paul Vina > Not sure if the B+ lead goes to the battery or not... > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > Paul Vina "Paul Vina" <paulvina@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Er6zb.282778 Am I the only one who still likes Clarion, sure after the 9375 they haven't been the same but there far from horrible, just not as good. They still put a whole lot of stuff in a deck, for better or worse. I stopped liking them after they went to that stupid secong version of the Alpha-touch volume with the ball instead of the little pyramid. They were absolute garbage for about 6 years after that. Paul Vina > "Paul Vina" <paulvina@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Er6zb.282778 > > Am I the only one who still likes Clarion, sure after the 9375 they haven't > been the same but there far from horrible, just not as good. They still put > a whole lot of stuff in a deck, for better or worse. Clarion quickly made my list of products not to buy after knowing someone who needed to exchange their deck twice under warranty before getting one that worked properly. And even then, I was un-impressed by it's sound quality. Nakamichi, Sony, Aiwa, and Panasonic are on the list as well, although the Nak units do sound quite nice. As far as bang for the buck goes in terms of the price:features ratio, I think Blaupunkt and Pioneer have the market beat. And, IMHO, Alpine and Eclipse own the SQ arena. Although I think the Nak units offer a damn good sound, and I hear that McIntosh's deck is quite nice as well, although I've never heard it before. Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago and it was downhill from there. Too bad really. For the money I'd do a Pioneer or live with a few less features and get an lower end Eclipse or Alpine. Paul Vina > Clarion quickly made my list of products not to buy after knowing someone who > needed to exchange their deck twice under warranty before getting one that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a damn good sound, and I hear that McIntosh's deck is quite nice as well, > although I've never heard it before. << Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago and it was downhill from there >> I never thought any of their non-ES product was worthwhile, but I definitely agree that their ES Car Audio product was kick-a.s. When I began shopping for decks several months ago, a local dealer still had a brand-spankin' new CDX-C90ES that I was really tempted to buy, nice deck. Although I'd think that my CD8443 should be able to perform as well or better. I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made completely out of the water. The only HUs I've heard that are even in it's performance category are the Alpine 7990, Pioneer ODR cd HU, Pioneer XES HU (that's not really a fair comparison though) and the Alpine 7909. Paul Vina > << Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago > and it was downhill from there >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > CDX-C90ES that I was really tempted to buy, nice deck. Although I'd think that > my CD8443 should be able to perform as well or better. << I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made completely out of the water. >> I find that hard to believe. My CD8443 and the "higher end" CD8053 are a newer design with newer 24-bit DACs and a particularly good CD section. How much better, if at all, could the C90 be? The C90 had 4 24-bit D/A and you could change the filter type. There's never been another HU on the planet that did that. It was pretty bad a.s. If they didn't have *magi-color* diplays that changed colors depending on how hot it was in your car I'd have kept mine. Paul Vina > << I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made > completely out of the water. >> > > I find that hard to believe. My CD8443 and the "higher end" CD8053 are a newer > design with newer 24-bit DACs and a particularly good CD section. How much > better, if at all, could the C90 be? << The C90 had 4 24-bit D/A and you could change the filter type. >> I thought the C90 used 20-bit units. My CD8443 has 24-bit DACs, but only 2 as far as I know. Hmmmmm......it might be 20's. It's been almost 3 years since I had it. But the ability to change the low pass filter alone makes it worth it. It makes a much bigger difference than you'd think. Paul Vina > << The C90 had 4 24-bit D/A and you could change the filter type. >> > > I thought the C90 used 20-bit units. My CD8443 has 24-bit DACs, but only 2 as > far as I know. << Hmmmmm......it might be 20's. It's been almost 3 years since I had it >> I'm fairly positive the C90 had 20-Bit DACs. What exactly does changing the low pass filter do? What advantage comes of it? It's not the low pass filter for the sub, but rather the low-pass filter that all cd players have because the sampling freq. is so low. The main difference is in the top end. It can sharpen it up, smooth it out and so on. It has 4 settings and they all do sound different. All you do is try them on the fly until you find the one you like. There are digital "a" and "b" and analog "a" and "b". I like the two analog settings since they were softer sounding but they're all really good sounding. The filters do change the bass a bit but it's not nearly as noticeable as the top end changes. Also I really liked the fact that there are 4 D/A converters. Paul Vina > << Hmmmmm......it might be 20's. It's been almost 3 years since I had it > > I'm fairly positive the C90 had 20-Bit DACs. What exactly does changing the low > pass filter do? What advantage comes of it? > I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made > completely out of the water. The only HUs I've heard that are even in it's > performance category are the Alpine 7990, Pioneer ODR cd HU, Pioneer XES HU > (that's not really a fair comparison though) and the Alpine 7909. > > Paul Vina how can you leave out the kissing cousins of HU McIn 4k and Cla 9255 the Sony XES which used the ES for it's foundation. I really liked the ole soundstream set up, and PPI > how can you leave out the kissing cousins of HU McIn 4k and Cla 9255 > the Sony XES which used the ES for it's foundation. The XES HU doesn't really have anything in common with the C90 except that they're both Sony products. The Z50 has an in-dash controller and trunk mounted changer/processor combo as it's source. It walks all over the C90. I did like the 9255 but the few people I knew that had them said they had lots of problems with them and they didn't recomend them. Never heard of any problems with the McIntosh version. Go figure. > I really liked the ole soundstream set up, and PPI The original Rubicons were my favorite SSs. I like the PCX PPIs. Great sounding (not as nice as the Art series though) and flexible as hell. Paul Vina Hey Paul. I thought I responded to this the other day, but my message never posted. :( Anyway, I have a follow-up question for you. Given that Alpine makes such good decks was the warranty important to you at all? I ask because I found the 9813 for $285 from Etronics, but apparently they aren't an "authorized" dealer and therefore the warranty would be void...I'm just wondering how much I should care about that given how good Alpine HUs are. Also, anyone know of a place that is an authorized Alpine dealer that sells them for less than retail? Thanks! > > Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to > > your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Paul Vina This should answer your question, I bought 2 9815s from Indo Audio on eBay from my car and my wife's cars. :) I don't remember the last time I saw a bad Alpine out of the box. Paul Vina > Hey Paul. I thought I responded to this the other day, but my message > never posted. :( [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > Paul Vina *laughs* Yeah, that definitely answers my question. You've put your money where your mouth is! :) For all practical purposes, the Alpine 9813 and Eclipse 3413 are basically the same price, the difference being that the Eclipse would be purchased with a warranty the Alpine without. Obviously as you look at the two the Alpine has more features than the Eclipse. Much larger display, Bass Pro system, etc. But, most people say that the Eclipse has better sound quality and an easier to use user interface. The Alpine also comes with a remote, though I'd ultimately be using a PAC-SWI so I'd only need the remote to program the the PAC-SWI... Thanks so much for your thoughts. Mike PS: Not sure why I never saw the other posts you guys made 2 days ago, though I can see them now! > This should answer your question, I bought 2 9815s from Indo Audio on eBay > from my car and my wife's cars. :) I don't remember the last time I saw a [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > > > Paul Vina I'd still go with the Alpine. As bad as everyone says the control interface is the only functions that are buried are the ones you shouldn't be adjusting while driving anyway like the time correction and the crossover. All of the day to day stuff is VERY easy to use. And don't discount the Bass Engine Pro functions. You'd be surprised how much less eq a system needs when there aren't as many phase issues. Paul Vina > *laughs* Yeah, that definitely answers my question. You've put your > money where your mouth is! :) [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > > > > > > Paul Vina |
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