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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / May 2004Breaking in new subs
How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and TIA... > How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > TIA... Put a ball in them and stick them under your mattress. play the music low for 2 week -- sl2perfec > play the music low for 2 weeks Still believing in every audio myth you hear? There is NO need to break in a sub. Just play it and enjoy, that is why we put them in. Les > > play the music low for 2 weeks > > Still believing in every audio myth you hear? There is NO need to break in a > sub. Just play it and enjoy, that is why we put them in. > > Les the only sub i ever broke in was made by "Orevox". The voice coil ripped the paper cone and i threw it in the trash. cheap subs get real loud for a minute when driven with 3 times their rated power, lol! hahah, yes, i know this... but the guy obviously has it in his head that he needs to break them in..so why not tell him what he wants to hear? > > play the music low for 2 weeks > > Still believing in every audio myth you hear? There is NO need to break in a > sub. Just play it and enjoy, that is why we put them in. > > Les > > How should I break in new subs? > > Put a ball in them and stick them under your mattress. > > Don't forget the Neatsfoot Oil and String. LOL You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they break in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter how hard you play them, just not too hard at first. LK > How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > TIA... > You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they break > in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter how > hard you play them, <snip> That's right. It doesn't really matter how hard you play them. They "break in" within seconds. To the original poster: this subject has been discussed ad nauseum in this group and in rec.audio.tech, among others. A simple google groups search will tell you all you need to know about the topic. There seem to be two groups making the arguments on both sides: those that read something from a marketing department suggesting to "break speakers in", and those that have performed the actual experiments or otherwise know how speakers work. > You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they break > in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter how > hard you play them, just not too hard at first. > > LK There is no need to break in subs. Just go and enjoy them, the suspension will loosen up during the first couple of notes. Les after you break them in and the suspension is JUST RIGHT, then you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the break in... > You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they break > in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter how [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > > TIA... BWHAHAHA..... that's funny. FHLH..... "I broke-in my subs too much... need to buy new ones"..... whatta great marketing gimmick.... > after you break them in and the suspension is JUST RIGHT, then > you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > > > TIA... yes, I have been installing for a long time and I have seen many folks that broke in thier woofers TOO MUCH.... > BWHAHAHA..... that's funny. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the > > break in... It's true that break-in for woofers (any moving coil driver) is not required but you should be aware of a high-end audio suggested break-in technique that can be very dangerous. This suggests placing a pair of speakers (usually meaning multiway loudspeaker systems with cabinets) face-to-face with out of polarity wiring and driving them with a noise or other high-level signal for overnight or even days. The idea is that with the speakers out-of-polarity the drivers will be 'exercised' but much of the sound will cancel. This is not only not necessary but quite dangerous. It's easy to lose track of how much and how long power is being delivered, how the voice coil will get and how easy it is to melt the glue or otherwise damage the driver. Most suggested 'break-in' techniques can easily be turned into ways that break-in your speakers too much. >yes, I have been installing for a long time and I have >seen many folks that broke in thier woofers TOO MUCH.... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> > you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the >> > break in... > How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > TIA... Listen to music. Don't push your new subs past their electrical limits. Repeat.  Signaturecyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* you break in subs by playing them. so why not just play them and dont worry about breaking them in..?? > How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > TIA... i dont know why people can't understand that subs break in, you do not have to break them in. Just play the damn things. > How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > TIA... Sometimes the suspension is stiffer when new. When replacing a sub with the same model, you may notice reduced power handling ability or reduced output compared to the old one. The new one should be up to specs within a few hours of use. There is no procedure to break in a sub. Just use it. Anybody who tells you that it needs a multi-day break-in period is just trying acclimate your ears to a bad sub. Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub sound less boomy. From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about two weeks after installing them. Just my experience... Don > How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in > the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and > TIA... > Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has > stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a > sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub > sound less boomy. That's a much higher figure than I've seen reported elsewhere. Even so, how audible do you think that change would be? > From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about > two weeks after installing them. This is common. It's called becoming acclimated to your new audio system. Two weeks is typical. >> Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has >> stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >This is common. It's called becoming acclimated to your new audio system. >Two weeks is typical. I was following a similar thread in rec.audio.high-end. One of the posters had always believed in "breaking in" new speakers, and always noticed a significant difference after a month of playing his new speakers. Then one day, he bought a pair of speakers that had been used for in-store demonstrations, and already had several hundred hours of playing time on them. Sure enough, after he had them in his house for a month, they sounded "different" to him, just like all of the brand-new speakers had in the past. That was when he finally realized that it wasn't the speakers that were "breaking in" - it was his ears. Scott Gardner > Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has > stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a > sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub > sound less boomy. Speaker SALESMAN always tell you that! If you are not sure how great your new speakers sound, it is a way the salesman can have you LIVE WITH IT for a couple of weeks before complaining about the new speakers.... BY THEN, you will have probably a) gotten used to them b) forgotten how your old speakers sounded in comparison (humans cant remember sound differences very long) Some speaker folks actually believe the speakers loosen up, but if they loosen up 25% in two weeks, then it stands to reason they might loosen up another 25% at the end of 4 weeks, and eventually be so loose they wont work anymore... ;-) I would like for someone to post some FS readings on a woofer and then play it a couple weeks and then post the FS reasings again and report on the difference.... no one has done this because there is no significant difference.. > From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about > two weeks after installing them. You got used to them! its a wonderfull salesmans tool to tell you to live with it a couple of weeks..;-) SUCKER! Eddie Runner http://www.installer.com/tech I asked around a little bit about speaker break-in after installing the Dyns in my car. Dynaudio seems to feel that the speakers need 100 hours of use before they've "broken in" and started sounding right. But I've got to call bullshit on that one and cite Scott Gardner's posting about the guy buying the demo speakers and realizing that the break-in period is all b.s. The speakers do sound slightly different to me today than they did at the beginning of February when I had them installed, but that's probably due to the facts that: 1. I'm more used to them now 2. I made gain adjustements at the amp 3. I went back to the shop that installed them and we re-EQ'd the system. The Klipsch speakers in my room sound slightly different now than when I bought them, but that's probably because my ear has gotten more used to the slightly bright "Klipschorn" tweeters they use. > I asked around a little bit about speaker break-in after installing the Dyns in > my car. Dynaudio seems to feel that the speakers need 100 hours of use before [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > them, but that's probably because my ear has gotten more used to the slightly > bright "Klipschorn" tweeters they use. I'm not entirely sure you can necessarily fault manufacturers for this suggestion. Obviously they can't put in their manual: "If you don't like our speakers at first, wait a while. Your ears will adjust. It's really the difference in sound compared to what you're used to that may be the culprit, rather than distaste for the tonal quality of the speakers themselves." Can you imagine the backlash? People would think it's just an excuse. They would proclaim: "This company is nuts! I have perfect control over my likes and dislikes. After all, I'm an audiophile!" :) >I'm not entirely sure you can necessarily fault manufacturers for this >suggestion. I agree with you. I just think it's silly that this type of disclaimer is neccesary just so people will stick out the adjustment period. >I asked around a little bit about speaker break-in after installing the Dyns >in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >them, but that's probably because my ear has gotten more used to the slightly >bright "Klipschorn" tweeters they use. I've done the experiments on break-in. At the behest of manufacturers who claimed that their drivers needed "break-in" I performed 3 different experiments (one of the was Dynaudio) using the recommended break-in techniques. But I also either demanded that the manufacturer supply 4 samples (so I could break-in "some" of them) or that they supply me with already broken-in samples AND fresh samples. Here's the deal: when you measure a woofer immediately following break-in (when the voice coil is still hot) you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will be 5-10% lower but the compliance (Vas) will be correspondingly higher. Using either set of measured parameters in a box-modeling program will produce the same enclosure as optimal. This means that if the 'changes' were real they are off-setting. Now install a fresh sample and a broken-in sample in identical enclosures and guess what ...... identical performance. Now take the broken-in sample and let it sit for a few hours and guess what ..... it will slowly return to the values you measured when it was stone cold and fresh out of the box. So the best that could be said is that drivers may "warm up" but they don't "break-in." And even if they did it doesn't matter ..... they sound the same either way. > I've done the experiments on break-in. At the behest of manufacturers who > claimed that their drivers needed "break-in" I performed 3 different > experiments (one of the was Dynaudio) using the recommended break-in > techniques. But I also either demanded that the manufacturer supply 4 samples > (so I could break-in "some" of them) or that they supply me with already > broken-in samples AND fresh samples. Tom, I'd love to see your data if it's available. I'm not questioning your claims. Rather, I want to further back mine up. > Here's the deal: when you measure a woofer immediately following break-in (when > the voice coil is still hot) you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will > be 5-10% lower but the compliance (Vas) will be correspondingly higher. How much of this is due to the supposed suspension change (ie break-in) and how much is due to an increase in DCR? > Tom, I'd love to see your data if it's available. I'm not questioning your > claims. Rather, I want to further back mine up. Tom NEVER shares his data!! He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-) >Tom NEVER shares his data!! >He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before >but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-) I'd love to see some real world data indicating that speaker characteristics actually change after a break-in period. Let's say 100 hours or so. I know near nothing about such testing but I'm still confident that such a change does not occur. I would be willing to do some FS testing with my LMS computer and publish the data, but I just dont have a good pair of speakers to try it with right this second.... I will get something together pretty soon.... Eddie > >Tom NEVER shares his data!! > >He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > nothing about such testing but I'm still confident that such a change does not > occur. >I would be willing to do some FS testing with my LMS computer >and publish the data, but I just dont have a good pair of speakers >to try it with right this second.... I will get something together >pretty soon.... I'd definitely be interested. Based on what I know (which is admittedly very little), I just can't see how anything of value to sound reproduction could change about a speaker after a "break-in" period. Of course, this assumes that the speakers are used properly. Damaging the speaker will obviously cause a change in sound quality. > I just can't see how anything of value to sound reproduction could > change about a speaker after a "break-in" period. I can see how a speaker COULD change during a break in period, what I cant see is how the speaker would know to STOP breaking in when the break in period was over, or in other words why a speaker would not just continue to change as you continue to play it... I think I have some brand new 12s in the store today I will measure the FS of both of them, they are probably nearly the same, and then I will hook one up in our display board which plays 24/7 and play it for a week, 168 hours a week.... then I will measure the FS of the woofer thats been played and compare it again to the one that has not been played..... I can measure this on my LMS computer, and post the results on my web site... Eddie Runner http://www.installer.com/tech >I can see how a speaker COULD change during a break in period, >what I cant see is how the speaker would know to STOP breaking >in when the break in period was over, or in other words why a speaker >would not just continue to change as you continue to play it... You're right. The way I see it either: A. The break-in period does nothing to change the speaker's characteristics (as far as audible differences are concerned) or B. The speaker will *continue* to change after break-in, eliminating the chance of getting consistant sound over a long (2+ years) run of usage. > You're right. The way I see it either: > A. The break-in period does nothing to change the speaker's characteristics (as > far as audible differences are concerned) or This is probably true. > B. The speaker will *continue* to change after break-in, eliminating the chance > of getting consistant sound over a long (2+ years) run of usage. Continue breaking in the speaker till the speaker breaks...! ha ha ha >>Tom NEVER shares his data!! >>He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >not >occur. Look for old issues of CSR. This was published. But, frankly, if speakers did "change" with use why would they stop changing at the "break-in" time? You can test this yourself with a 1000-ohm resistor a test cd and a voltmeter by checking the system resonance (Fsb) of a system. >Look for old issues of CSR. This was published. I'm not doubting you personally Tom. I'm doubting the claims of manufacturers who say that a break-in period (100 hours in the case of my Dynaudios) will alter the physical characteristics of a speaker enough to cause an audible change in character. If this were the case, as Eddie pointed out, then the sound of your speakers should constantly be changing, because the speakers will never stop "breaking in", anything that happens in the initial 100 should continue happening thereafter. The only other option I can see, as per my earlier post, is that character changes of a physical nature and of a degree great enough to create differences audible to the human ear simply do not occur in speakers - at least not in *all* speakers. >> Tom, I'd love to see your data if it's available. I'm not questioning your >> claims. Rather, I want to further back mine up. > >Tom NEVER shares his data!! >He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before >but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-) So Eddie you never read Car Stereo Review or Mobile Entertainment. Most everything I've said here has been published for everyone to see. > So Eddie you never read Car Stereo Review or Mobile Entertainment. Most > everything I've said here has been published for everyone to see. Nope, they publish too much bullshit... I dont waste my money on most magazines. Many articles are trumped up crap that some writer just makes up. In some magazines I see your articles that say moving a woofer box around in a car wont change the bass ressponse, and we all know IT DOES.... http://www.installer.com/tech/aiming.html In other magazines we see Richard Clark telling folks he was the first to ever use a big capacitor in a competition car, and we know that Wayne Harris competed 8 years before RC did with caps...And others did also (I am using Wayne because it is a documented fact and I was there when he did).... I had a customer come in my store with an article that claimed a stereo system in a TRANS AM had 15 miles of speaker wire and the installers used 50 Lbs of solder to do the job!! Think about this for a minute, 15 miles of wire from front to back the the car would make a bundle about 2ft diameter, ha ha ha NO WAY and 50 Lbs of solder??? Solder usually comes in 1 Lbs rolls, ONE will last me for months if not longer...!!! 50 rolls on one car..?? I dont think so.... LIES LIES LIES... 1) the magazines need articles so they sometimes take ANYTHING to make their deadline. 2) the magazines manytimes wanna just please their advertisers so they do articles that are BIASED 3) many of the writers are MORONS, even when they interview ME about FACTS I KNOW they usuallys still write the articles WRONG!! I know alot of folks read these bullshit magazines and think everything in them is GOSPEL! And I know thats why you want folks to see your articles instead of trying to provide independent facts. oh well..... Eddie Runner Always ready to publish MY facts.... http://www.installer.com/tech/ How long does it take US to BREAK YOU IN..?? > I've done the experiments on break-in. |
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