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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / June 2004Subwoofer size......a few quick questions
I searched the archives on this thinking it must be a much asked about topic, but much to my surprise, I couldn't really find answers. Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it can play. If this is true, I am wondering what the purpose of different sizes is. Here are a few questions: 1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or straining as hard? 2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? 3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums, and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there any truth to this? 4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce the same notes as smaller ones? Thanks for any help, Roger In article <33b94bd5.0406090835.716680d4@posting.google.com>, >1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or >straining as hard? Maximum SPL output at a given frequency is a function of displacement. All else equal distortion is a function of excursion which is less when you have a larger surface area. >2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? No. >3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums, >and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there >any truth to this? No. Bass slam comes from mid-bass output (preferably clean, undistorted, and uncompressed) and this isn't a function of driver size. Boundary reinforcement and room modes can provide an artificial boost here. >4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce >the same notes as smaller ones? The increased surface area means less excursion is required (lower distortion).  Signature<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a> Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease. I feel you have been quite misled. > Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size > of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it > can play. Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go deeper. > 1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or > straining as hard? Not necessarily, this is determined partly by the sensitivity of your box, which in turn can depend on enclosure size, voice coil parameters etc. > 2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? Would not say so. > 3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums, > and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there > any truth to this? No, these differences could be attributed to the damping factor of the amp, enclosure type (vented/sealed) and so on but typically not to size. > 4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce > the same notes as smaller ones? > > Thanks for any help, > Roger > > Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size > > of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it > > can play. > > Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go deeper. What do you mean by "go deeper"? > > Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go deeper. > > What do you mean by "go deeper"? And an even better questions is WHATS A PROPER ENCLOSURE..?? Sounds like someone is assuming there is a such thing as a proper enclosure.. Almost like saying one enclosure is BEST.... Dirk Diggler? Ron Jeremy? FHLH........ pr0n > > > Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size > > > of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What do you mean by "go deeper"? > 1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or > straining as hard? Sometimes... There are many variables in speaker contruction that include the cone size, the motor strength, the resonance of the speaker and so on. Each variable can change how the speaker sounds, or determine what sounds the speaker plays the loudest.... Your only addressing one of many variables (cone size) and generally the larger the cone the better it is for playing low sounds... small speakers can play low sounds also (even a 4 inch speaker can play 20Hz) but generally the larger cone speaker can play lower easier... A very general way to see this is by looking at the specs of the speaker, FS is the resonant frequency of the speaker, and typicly a larger speaker will have a lower FS... But, even a smaller speaker can have a lower FS when the manufacturer uses a heavier cone weight or you can achieve this by adding weight to a cone, thus lowering the FS... This may not be a good thing... so FS is obviously not the only varable thats inportant.... Large speakers can also be OK for frequencies higher than normally used, forinstance one of my favorite systems used 15s for midrange.... Its nice to find a system that the mids and highs can keep up with the very loud bass.... But most car 15s and many smaller car drivers are designed for the lowest FS, sometimes they just add weight to small drivers which evenmakes the small drivers no longer good for mid range.... Unfortunatly alot of folks think 6 inch is good midrange, but many 6 inch components and seperate drivers have so much weight added to make them play LOW, they are no longer fit for mids.... Really, the best way to judge which speaker is best for which sounds is not the cone size but instead the actual sounds they produce... you can almost do this pretty well just by using your ear if you know what to listen for and listen to the drivers individually as well as seperatly.... Or if you have access to test gear you can run a few sweeps on the drivers and compare the sensitivity and frequency response. > 2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? Sizes alone, NO. But different speakers are DEFINATLY better for different types of music. > 3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums, > and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there > any truth to this? its very common to hear this but its not always true.... a 15 and a 12 if everything else were equal it might be true, but most of the time the manufacturers want the 12 to play low so they may add weight (use a heaveier cone) to get a lower FS and then the 12 may be very sluggish for the tighter bass and not work out how you might expect it to. Typicly only a freq response sweep will tell us the differences... Some speaker guys can tell just by pushing in a speaker cone with a finger. Some speaker guys can tell just be looking closely at the speakers contruction. I like LARGE drivers, even for mid range, but to get good mids you mist use a very light cone (typicly)... ;-) > 4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce > the same notes as smaller ones? if all other variables are unchanged this may be true, but I dont think its fair to say in the real world... Since so many folks want LOW BASS and dont have room for big drivers, the manufacturers often try to make the smaller drivers play lower by doctoring the other variables and then just comparing JUST cone size is no longer a good way to tell.... Eddie Runner http://www.installer.com/tech/ /snip/ Too much info in your head, Eddie. One of these days you're gonna think too much and your head will explode, LOL! Great Answer! > > 1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or > > straining as hard? [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > Eddie Runner > http://www.installer.com/tech/ > 1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or > straining as hard? Usually, assuming all else is equal. It's hard to get all else to be equal though... > 2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? No. > 3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums, > and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there > any truth to this? Nope. > 4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce > the same notes as smaller ones? This looks like the same question as #1. Thanks to everyone for the replies and for learnin' me a little something about subs! Roger > > 1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or > > straining as hard? Generally speaking larger ones play lower and can handle more power thereby producing more volume. The more air you move the more sound you get which larger ones have the ability to do. > > 2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there > > any truth to this? yes smaller ones are generally tighter but again some quality big ones will also give you a tight punchy sound. depends on the manufacturer > 4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce > > the same notes as smaller ones? > >Yes and no. larger ones need more power to move the greater cone area . the bigger the cone the lower the note again assuming the quality is good. > Generally speaking larger ones play lower and can handle more power thereby > producing more volume. The more air you move the more sound you get which > larger ones have the ability to do. Nobody has been able to tell me what they mean exactly by "play lower." Care to take a shot at it? > > > 2) Are different sizes better for different types of music? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > yes smaller ones are generally tighter but again some quality big ones will > also give you a tight punchy sound. depends on the manufacturer The bottom line is that the enclosure dictates the "tightness" moreso than the sub itself. Yet the primary determinant of the "tightness" of your bass is actually the midbass drivers. This should be evident by looking at basic Fourier theory. > > 4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce > > > the same notes as smaller ones? > > > >Yes and no. larger ones need more power to move the greater cone area . This isn't true. > the bigger the cone the lower the note again assuming the quality is good. Huh? > The bottom line is that the enclosure dictates the "tightness" moreso than > the sub itself. I dont think I would agree with that mark. An enclosure can change the speaker response, but when I think of tight, I think of a woofer with good midbass, not making a smaller enclosure. > > The bottom line is that the enclosure dictates the "tightness" moreso than > > the sub itself. > > I dont think I would agree with that mark. An enclosure can change the > speaker response, but when I think of tight, I think of a woofer with good > midbass, not making a smaller enclosure. What I said wasn't entirely accurate. The point I was trying to make was that it's as easy to change the "tightness" by modifying the enclosure as it is by changing the sub. I'd guess that you still wouldn't agree with this. But as Archie Bunker once said, que seru seru. > What I said wasn't entirely accurate. The point I was trying to make was > that it's as easy to change the "tightness" by modifying the enclosure as it > is by changing the sub. I'd guess that you still wouldn't agree with this. > But as Archie Bunker once said, que seru seru. ha ha ha Yes, your right, I still dont agree.... ;-) I would prefer to choose the correct driver rather than trying to modify the box to make the driver sound like you want it to.... Eddie Runner > > What I said wasn't entirely accurate. The point I was trying to make was > > that it's as easy to change the "tightness" by modifying the enclosure as it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > rather than trying to modify the box to make the > driver sound like you want it to.... Choosing the correct equipment is always recommended! But the point is that the enclosure dictates as much as the woofer does in terms of "tightness"...and "playing low" and all these other things that people appear to be attributing to subwoofer size. And, as I pointed out in my other post, "tightness" is probably influenced the most by the midbass driver situation, simply because that's the frequency range where "tightness" usually resides, so to speak. > Generally speaking larger ones play lower Lower than what..?? if a 4 inch speaker can play down to 20Hz which is the lower limit for most humans, then how can a 12 inch or 15 inch play lower..?? > and can handle more power thereby > producing more volume. a larger driver may NOT have more power handling capacity. the size of the cone is not indicitive of power handling at all.. Eddie |
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