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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / June 2005Amp probs
I have a Audiobahn 4601T 4x75 amp. 2 channels run my front speakers, the other 2 are bridged and run my sub... all was going well, listening to music, went to work..... After I finished work I went to drive home, and thee was a serious lack of bass... My sub stopped working; Went home checked my amp, its still powering on, front speakers are still running so the amp is still working, switched the rca cables around, front speakers worked with either set... so its not the RCA cable.... checked the two fuses in the amp, they both seem to be good.. I'm stuck, what happened? anyone have any ideas? how can it be working grand and then after work not? nothing popped/burnt out that I can see!!! Oh yeah also checked my sub by connecting it to a 1.5volt battery, the cone moved so I'm assuming the sub is still good?!?! Thing is when I turn on my music, nothing happens at the sub, no sound, no movement NOTHING!?!?! Any help at all appreciated!! >I have a Audiobahn 4601T 4x75 amp. 2 channels run my front speakers, the >other 2 are bridged and run my sub... all was going well, listening to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Any help at all appreciated!! I would double-check the fuses. In fact, go ahead and pull them out, look at them closely, and test them with an ohmmeter if you have one. The fact that you're getting nothing from the subs at all makes me suspect the amp fuse or the wiring between the amp and subs. Were there any splices in the speaker wire between the amp and the sub that could have come loose? If the fuse turns out to be good, you might temporarily run a different length of speaker wire to your sub.  SignatureScott Gardner "Any event, once it has occurred, can be made to appear inevitable by a competent historian". - Lee Simonson Hi thanks for the reply!! nah the wire from the sub to the amp is grand, dunno whats up, ok I'll check the fuses properly... Yeah I was maybe thinking I might of fuct the amp, but I dunno how thats possible cause it just suddenly stopped working, its not as if I was using it when it happened... its really confusing, my amp has protection mode as well. so if the amp was running too high shouldn't of that kicked in??? thanks for the ideas anyways! >>I have a Audiobahn 4601T 4x75 amp. 2 channels run my front speakers, the >>other 2 are bridged and run my sub... all was going well, listening to [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > could have come loose? If the fuse turns out to be good, you might > temporarily run a different length of speaker wire to your sub. dont waste time checking the fuses with a meter thats dum. just replace them check the connections make sure theyre clean. ot might be inside radio sub channel.or amp. >I have a Audiobahn 4601T 4x75 amp. 2 channels run my front speakers, the >other 2 are bridged and run my sub... all was going well, listening to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Any help at all appreciated!! Either your sub is bad or the channel that runs the sub is bad. try putting the sub on the front side of the amp. or try the sub on your home stereo. get you 1 good 10' sub and hook it up. thenll youll know if its the amp or sub...geezzzzz i guess it could be the sub hook up from the radio too. I took the sub out, and put my 6x9s onto it.. Seems to be one of my channels is fuct. how's it happen though? My radio wasnt even playing! I would understand if it happened midplay, music being too loud or me adding a component which didn't agree with my system.. Any ideas on how to fix the problem? Would the amp still be covered under guarantee?? its only 3 months old! > get you 1 good 10' sub and hook it up. thenll youll know if its the amp > or sub...geezzzzz > i guess it could be the sub hook up from the radio too. i've noticed alot damage happens when turning on or off your system....... when turning on your car its better to turn off your stereo if its high power.i got stickers all on my dash says danger high voltage dont touch stereo.lol >i've noticed alot damage happens when turning on or off your >system....... >when turning on your car its better to turn off your stereo if its high >power.i got stickers all on my dash says danger high voltage dont touch >stereo.lol That's a good point. If the problem turns out to be a component inside the amp instead of just a blown fuse, it could have easily happened because of the "inrush curent" through cold circuits when you turned the amp on. (The same reason light bulbs usually blow when you first turn them on.) Amps are usually protected from voltage spikes and drops while you're starting your car, since the amp is turned on by the remote turn-on lead on the head unit, and there's usually a relay in your car's wiring that keeps things like the air conditioning and head unit turned off while the engine is being started. SignatureScott Gardner I'm all out of altitude, airspeed, and ideas..." > That's a good point. If the problem turns out to be a component > inside the amp instead of just a blown fuse, it could have easily [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > wiring that keeps things like the air conditioning and head unit > turned off while the engine is being started. But with the light bulb, it's because the resistance of the tungsten is at its lowest point when cold. Things are different with an amp. Charge up the power supply capacitors and that's it. What's gonna go wrong there? Burn out a trace? >> That's a good point. If the problem turns out to be a component >> inside the amp instead of just a blown fuse, it could have easily [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >the power supply capacitors and that's it. What's gonna go wrong there? >Burn out a trace? I guess it would depend on what the very first components are in the circuit path when power is applied. The capacitors you mention appear as dead shorts in the circuit until they've begun to charge, so that's another example of a spike in turn-on current. Along the same lines, what exactly is it that causes "turn-on 'thump' in amps"? Even if his amp has circuitry to prevent the "thump", that circuitry itself must have to deal with some kind of spike upon turn-on. I realize it doesn't happen often, although I've had other electronic devices fail upon initial powerup. The original poster was asking why his amp would fail at turn-on rather than under use, and I was just pointing out that initial application of power can be a risky time for electronic devices. For his sake, I'm hoping the problem is just a blown fuse in the bad channel. The last I heard from him, he had just looked at the fuse in place - he hadn't removed it to examine it more closely, test it with an ohmmeter, or to swap it with the other fuse in the amp or a new fuse. SignatureScott Gardner "If you sleep twelve hours a day, then the deployment will only be three months long, not six!" (Navy JO saying) > For his sake, I'm hoping the problem is just a blown fuse in the bad > channel. The last I heard from him, he had just looked at the fuse in > place - he hadn't removed it to examine it more closely, test it with > an ohmmeter, or to swap it with the other fuse in the amp or a new > fuse. The original poster said only half the amp was not working. the side that was to the sub. the other half to the fronts was working ok that's why I didn't mention checking fuse, because it is unlikely since half the amp is working >> For his sake, I'm hoping the problem is just a blown fuse in the bad >> channel. The last I heard from him, he had just looked at the fuse in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >that's why I didn't mention checking fuse, because it is unlikely since half >the amp is working But he also mentioned that the amp had two fuses. Most likely, there's one for each channel. SignatureScott Gardner "Any event, once it has occurred, can be made to appear inevitable by a competent historian". - Lee Simonson >>> For his sake, I'm hoping the problem is just a blown fuse in the bad >>> channel. The last I heard from him, he had just looked at the fuse in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > But he also mentioned that the amp had two fuses. Most likely, > there's one for each channel. It's possible, but in my 26 years I have never seen an amp that uses a different fuse for each channel on the power side. They may have some, but all the one's I've seen, the fuses are paralleled for the power supply and not the audio. There are some amps that use smaller fuses on the audio outputs, old Rockford's and Orion come to mind. so maybe the next question is What brand model amp is it? > I guess it would depend on what the very first components are in the > circuit path when power is applied. The capacitors you mention appear [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > amp has circuitry to prevent the "thump", that circuitry itself must > have to deal with some kind of spike upon turn-on. It's typically a disparity between the timing of source and amplifier turnon. "Thump" circuitry tends to be an input circuit thing. > I realize it doesn't happen often, although I've had other electronic > devices fail upon initial powerup. The original poster was asking why > his amp would fail at turn-on rather than under use, and I was just > pointing out that initial application of power can be a risky time for > electronic devices. Yeah, turn-on time usually is. But it's important to dissociate between turn-on time (eg. light bulbs) and thermal cycles. If the last thermal cycle was the culprit, then of course it'll manifest itself at turn-on. Obviously you're not going to notice a difference at turn-off. :) But I've generally found that amplifiers will go kaput at the worst possible time - when you're playing a song you really like at full tilt. >.i got stickers all on my dash says danger high voltage dont touch > stereo.lol Sounds like a classy ride. My car has no ac position; So the radio doesn't need the key turned or even in to turn on!!! I put the radio in and switched it on as I was sending a text before starting my car; Well, the main thing I wanna know is, is my amp beyond repair? > >.i got stickers all on my dash says danger high voltage dont touch >> stereo.lol > > Sounds like a classy ride. >My car has no ac position; So the radio doesn't need the key turned or even >in to turn on!!! I put the radio in and switched it on as I was sending a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> Sounds like a classy ride. If your stereo is wired so that the key doesn't have to be in the ignition to power the stereo, then you can get voltage spikes and drops to your amplifier if you start the car with the stereo and amplifier turned on. I'm not saying that's what caused the problem, but all else being equal, there's a reason that factory stereos are interlocked so that they momentarily turn off while the engine's being started. Did you ever pull the fuse from the bad channel and replace it or test it with a meter? I've had fuses blow that still looked "good" until I examined them very closely. At the very least, swap the two fuses and see if the problem moves to the other channel. SignatureScott Gardner "A billion hours ago, human life appeared on earth. A billion minutes ago, Christianity emerged. A billion Coca Colas ago was yesterday morning. " (from a Coca-Cola report) I checked the fuses, switched them and with an multimeter; They're good... Just seems to be that one channel; can it be that a soldering joint as gone within the amp? cause the amp is powering up and one side of the 2 channels is working?? maybe the power just isn't reaching the output for some reason? The amp is an Audiobahn 4601T I'll let you's decide if its a good amp or not.. I think it could also be the input terminal to the amp? Maybe within the amp, a wore loose again? I Dunno. I live in Ireland, bought the amp from the states so doubt my warranty will be good over here; Roughly how much would I be looking at for a repair?? >>My car has no ac position; So the radio doesn't need the key turned or >>even [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > examined them very closely. At the very least, swap the two fuses and > see if the problem moves to the other channel. >I checked the fuses, switched them and with an multimeter; They're good... >Just seems to be that one channel; can it be that a soldering joint as gone [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >states so doubt my warranty will be good over here; Roughly how much would I >be looking at for a repair?? Well, you've exhausted all of the easy/obvious stuff, so it's probably time to take it to a shop if you'd like to keep the amp. Expect them to charge you $50-75 to diagnose it, but they'll usually deduct that amount off of your bill if you have it fixed. I'm not familiar with that particular amp, other than having read the spec sheet and the owner's manual, but Audiobahn is a pretty well-respected brand. I'd at least have it checked out. If it's going to be less than $100 to have it fixed, I'd have it fixed if it were my amp. Of course, if you've been looking to upgrade to a different amp, this might be the perfect opportunity. SignatureScott Gardner "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed successfully." (Windows NT Server v3.51) be4 repairing any amp wiegh can you buy a better amp alil more or will it break again.i've been down the fix it road b4.lol once 1 thing breaks whats next? usually things get worse not better with amps breaking.i'd fix it and sell it.if you can get more than double the repair bill out of it. there is a chance it'll not break again for awhile thou.i would gamble on it myself....... meant wouldnt gamble on it myself. forget the fuses...things powering up n off wears parts in car audio. thats what i'm talking about. you know on battery terminals you get crud from the electricity flowing thou it.well any connection with electricity can get that on it. even inside radios/amps.i forget what that build up electicity leaves is called. > meant wouldnt gamble on it myself. > forget the fuses...things powering up n off wears parts in car audio. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > even inside radios/amps.i forget what that build up electicity leaves is > called. uh, mr expert, it's called corrosion. and just because something has electricity flowing thru it doesn't mean it will automatically corrode. > be4 repairing any amp wiegh can you buy a better amp alil more or will > it break again.i've been down the fix it road b4.lol > once 1 thing breaks whats next? usually things get worse not better with > amps breaking.i'd fix it and sell it.if you can get more than double the > repair bill out of it. there is a chance it'll not break again for > awhile thou.i would gamble on it myself....... Amps are different from cars and houses. A lot of times, fixing the amp will fix it for good. Unless it's a cheap crappy amp to begin with. I still have amps that I fixed years ago and have worked flawless since. Last year, I sold an MTX Blue Thunder amp that I had originally bought like 7 years prior. The "fix" was basically only resoldering a trace. A lot of times, broken amps are the result of a loose connection which may not be representative of the soldering/connections job internally. ohh 'm sorry i didnt know your amps dont age or have wear n tear...yours never run out..... oh wait you said no amps ever wear out. ok i guess your amp dont use electricity either. electricity by itself can cause trouble. glad i learned this from the pros here . >ohh 'm sorry i didnt know your amps dont age or have wear n tear...yours >never run out..... >oh wait you said no amps ever wear out. ok >i guess your amp dont use electricity either. >electricity by itself can cause trouble. >glad i learned this from the pros here . I'm still waiting for you to explain the corrosion that happens just because electricity flows through a circuit. SignatureScott Gardner "Freedom defined is freedom denied." (Illuminatus) > ohh 'm sorry i didnt know your amps dont age or have wear n tear...yours > never run out..... > oh wait you said no amps ever wear out. ok > i guess your amp dont use electricity either. > electricity by itself can cause trouble. > glad i learned this from the pros here . "Wear" can happen as electrolytic caps "dry out" etc. Modern manufacturing processes and component evolution dictates that wear is minimal on a component level. Devices subject to excessive vibration can develop cracked solder joints etc but this is an easy fix. Ususlly once it's fixed correctly then it's fixed. "Correctly" is if you pop a transistor on one channel replace all of it's complementary transistors. Same with switching FETs. Components rarely suffer wear these days as much as they suffer failure from abuse in car audio. Once the faulty components are replaced and the others that took the brunt of the blow from the failure then there is absolutely no reason for it to perform as new for the longevity of a new device. Chad > ohh 'm sorry Apology accepted. By the way, learn to quote the text you're replying to. Not everybody uses a threaded newsreader. I had to switch to another computer just to check to see if you were replying to me or someone else. > i didnt know your amps dont age or have wear n tear...yours > never run out..... > oh wait you said no amps ever wear out. ok That's not what I said. I countered your ridiculous comment: "once 1 thing breaks whats next? usually things get worse not better with amps breaking." with a comment about how this isn't necessarily true. What is it exactly that makes you think that when an amp breaks it'll be prone to breaking? As I said, it's not like a car where it gathers rust on the underside so that once your ball joints go you can expect a control arm or fuel lines or whatever to go. There's really not much "wear" to be had on an amplifier, short of thermal cycles or drying out capacitors or what have you. And if you're at that point with your amplifier, then it's time to step out of the '80s and buy a new one. > i guess your amp dont use electricity either. > electricity by itself can cause trouble. Sure can. But then that's a problem with your car's electrical system, not the amplifier. ok fixxed a amp once then 2weeks laters something else then something else.i talk from experience.please you are embarrassing your selfs.....all electicial connetions when they make contact and sparks leave a lil build up. i had a switch n my ac last year.a switch that automatic wouldnt disengage because the place it switches too had so much build up it always made contact.and the ac ran all the time. even when i turned it off. it was like lead build up like 3/16s high. coulda been 1/8.....but this thing was like 9 yrs old.....maybe 12. but you use amps ALOT more that ac. I was under the impression that if things were wired correctly, then there wouldn't be sparks thown... Maybe that's just the new-fangled technology that I'm used to, though. ~Mister.Lull > ok fixxed a amp once then 2weeks laters something else then something > else. this could be the result of customer abuse, a poor quality product, or a poor repair job. i talk from experience.please you are embarrassing your > selfs.....all electicial connetions when they make contact and sparks > leave a lil build up. ok, but now you've changed your story. to quote your previous statement: " you know on battery terminals you get crud from the electricity flowing thou it.well any connection with electricity can get that on it. even inside radios/amps.i forget what that build up electicity leaves is called." see. two different statements. because you can't support the first statement, you changed to something else. > i had a switch n my ac last year.a switch that automatic wouldnt > disengage because the place it switches too had so much build up it > always made contact.and the ac ran all the time. i think that would be called a contactor (relay). > even when i turned it off. yes, a common failure in HVAC systems. contactor arcing shut. > it was like lead build up like 3/16s high. > coulda been 1/8.....but this thing was like 9 yrs old.....maybe 12. hell, that's a good life for a contactor, considering most are not sealed and are exposed to open air. > but you use amps ALOT more that ac. maybe. i believe you 1 smart cookie. those were the words i were thinking of. arking- contactor. and all electrical connectons can have sparks.. and i dont mean 12inch sparks. a 1/16 spark. >i believe you 1 smart cookie. those were the words i were thinking of. > arking- contactor. > and all electrical connectons can have sparks.. > and i dont mean 12inch sparks. a 1/16 spark. how can a solid,tight connection spark? > i believe you 1 smart cookie. those were the words i were thinking of. > arking- contactor. > and all electrical connectons can have sparks.. > and i dont mean 12inch sparks. a 1/16 spark. Please explain to me which parts of an amp will "1/16" spark. a spark is electricity..duh >a spark is electricity..duh A spark is the ionization of the air as the electricity passes through it causing superheating. A spark is not electricity rather a byproduct of it's means of transfer. Chad > ok fixxed a amp once n=1, eh? So what was wrong with this amp? > then 2weeks laters something else then something > else What else? >.i talk from experience.please you are embarrassing your > selfs.....all electicial connetions when they make contact and sparks > leave a lil build up. What are you doing to make your amp spark? > i had a switch n my ac last year.a switch that automatic wouldnt > disengage because the place it switches too had so much build up it > always made contact.and the ac ran all the time. What was "built up"? Are you sure it wasn't refrigerant or dust? Yeah, I know, that sticky electricity is hard to get off. > even when i turned it off. > it was like lead build up like 3/16s high. > coulda been 1/8.....but this thing was like 9 yrs old.....maybe 12. > but you use amps ALOT more that ac. > ok fixxed a amp once then 2weeks laters something else then something > else.i talk from experience.please you are embarrassing your [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > coulda been 1/8.....but this thing was like 9 yrs old.....maybe 12. > but you use amps ALOT more that ac. Most amps don't have relays, thier protection scheme simply shuts down the oscilator that drives the power supply. THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE TO ARC. If there are solid component connections THERE IS NO ARCING. I have seen instances in professional applications where speaker relays will stick on, this is due to an amplifier delivering upwards of 100V into a 4 ohm load and the relay energizing when there is full signal present or in worst case an amp throwing rail DC, in this case the relay is the least of your worries. This occurs mostly in older amps such as crest and BGW. In fact if you short a side of finals in a crest 8001 you automatically replace the relay. Again part of "correct" repair procedures. Many modern pro amps also have switching power supplies, they have no speaker relays, it just drops the power supply. Chad > relay is the least of your worries. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Chad seems like they would have protected that relay with a $0.01 fuse. >> relay is the least of your worries. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > seems like they would have protected that relay with a $0.01 fuse. Fuses suck in audio. If you get it so it doesn't blow then you blow drivers. the other way around and you are always blowing fuses. Even time delay fuses cannot interact with different music transients or an engineer that squeezes the snot out of everything. In that world your paycheck depends on reliability, fuses just make that reliability go down or simply add a little more resistance to the wire :) Chad look fuses mean nothing...if parts just break or wear out..geezzzz > look fuses mean nothing...if parts just break or wear out..geezzzz The queen of quoting strikes again. didnt say anythng inside might arc but like on your battery might corrode like the connections. over alot of use. > didnt say anythng inside might arc but like on your battery might > corrode like the connections. > over alot of use. Why would this cause an amp to fail? i just thunk this out. if i am wrong then why would any amps need to be fixxed???? and dont say it was a manufactor defect. if that was true it'd never work to start with. >i just thunk this out. if i am wrong then why would any amps need to be >fixxed???? >and dont say it was a manufactor defect. >if that was true it'd never work to start with. Like Mark and I said, amps in general don't "wear out" because they don't have many moving parts, and the moving parts they do have don't need to be adjusted very often. Amps have individual components inside that usually break one-at-a-time. Unlike a car, where you can continue to drive it even after it's making funny noises or started to rust, amps usually stop working as soon as one component inside them breaks. So, when an amp goes bad, it's usually just one or two components that need to be fixed. Once you fix those, the amp is often fine for years. Compare that to a car where the suspension, engine, interior, and paint all wear out constantly, but you can keep driving it until just about everything in it is either broken or about to break, all at once. If you're talking about 40-year old home amplifiers, they can start to have problems with the insulation on the wiring or the wires themselves that require a total re-wire to fix them properly, but most car amplifiers are thrown away LONG before the materials inside them start to degrade. SignatureScott Gardner "If the pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If Air Traffic Control screws up, the pilot dies." > i just thunk this out. Glad to see you've now started to think before typing replies. Hopefully it becomes a trend. > if i am wrong then why would any amps need to be > fixxed???? Because they break. What do I win? > and dont say it was a manufactor defect. > if that was true it'd never work to start with. Ok, now how does this have anything to do with your assertion that once an amp breaks then it'll be more prone to breaking in the future? >i just thunk this out. the word you are looking for is "thought". >if i am wrong you probably are. >then why would any amps need to be > fixxed???? parts fail. they have been failing for years. with reduced prices and competition, there's not enough time to "burn in" and test every transistor before it's sold to a manufacturer. > and dont say it was a manufactor defect. um, no, it would be a component failure. if no components ever failed, manufacturers wouldn't have to give warranties. > if that was true it'd never work to start with. why not? >> be4 repairing any amp wiegh can you buy a better amp alil more or will >> it break again.i've been down the fix it road b4.lol [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >times, broken amps are the result of a loose connection which may not be >representative of the soldering/connections job internally. I had an AudioContol EQX that was intermittent on one channel. There was a fractured solder joint on one of the RCA connectors. De-soldering it, cleaning it up, and re-soldering it fixed the problem for good. It was still working fine when I gave it away ten years later. Mark's right - amps and other electronic devices don't really "wear out" as much as they experience abrupt failures of individual components. It's not uncommon to fix/replace the bad part and have the device keep on truckin' for decades longer. SignatureScott Gardner "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." (Emo Philips) It seems the only good thing left in this thread is Scott Gardner's one liners. Keep it coming. SignatureThe best is yet to come V > It seems the only good thing left in this thread is Scott Gardner's > one liners. Keep it coming. ROFLMAO ... thanks for the heads up, and here I was just reading the replies :-) SignatureDan Snooks So............ after all those replies, still no help in my situation at all.... Is my amp fuct? is it repairable? how much am I looking at? I am an engineer, would it be easy enough to pin point the problem?? >> It seems the only good thing left in this thread is Scott Gardner's >> one liners. Keep it coming. > > ROFLMAO ... thanks for the heads up, and here I was just reading the > replies :-) no1 can tell you if your amp is repairable off the internet without the value of the amp and the repair costs and pics of the rest of the insides to see if theres lots of wear.might break alot more. i said earlier ''JUST FIX IT n sell it'' you love money too much.i'd guess its a amp you got cheap 2nd hand 1yr ago.which if it is . osta levesta baby tho it away....buy a new 1 $200 or less.tighty whitey.i never typed so much over a piece of xxxx amp ! > no1 can tell you if your amp is repairable off the internet without the > value of the amp and the repair costs and pics of the rest of the > insides to see if theres lots of wear. Cleo, Can I please send you some pics of transistors and have you tell me if they are blown? How bout a whole rail of transistors so you can point out the blown ones? I would gladly pay you if you are accurate as this would save me a bunch of time. might break alot more. > i said earlier ''JUST FIX IT n sell it'' > you love money too much.i'd guess its a amp you got cheap 2nd hand 1yr > ago.which if it is . > osta levesta baby tho it away....buy a new 1 $200 or less.tighty > whitey.i never typed so much over a piece of xxxx amp ! The wal-mart mentality folks. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Shouldn't you be posting on CAF instead? > no1 can tell you if your amp is repairable off the internet without the > value of the amp and the repair costs and pics of the rest of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > osta levesta baby tho it away....buy a new 1 $200 or less.tighty > whitey.i never typed so much over a piece of xxxx amp ! >So............ after all those replies, still no help in my situation at >all.... Is my amp fuct? is it repairable? how much am I looking at? I am an >engineer, would it be easy enough to pin point the problem?? I posted this yesterday, but it might have gotten lost in all the noise. I dont think there's much else to say on the subject: "Well, you've exhausted all of the easy/obvious stuff, so it's probably time to take it to a shop if you'd like to keep the amp. Expect them to charge you $50-75 to diagnose it, but they'll usually deduct that amount off of your bill if you have it fixed. I'm not familiar with that particular amp, other than having read the spec sheet and the owner's manual, but Audiobahn is a pretty well-respected brand. I'd at least have it checked out. If it's going to be less than $100 to have it fixed, I'd have it fixed if it were my amp. Of course, if you've been looking to upgrade to a different amp, this might be the perfect opportunity." SignatureScott Gardner "It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him." (Arthur C. Clarke) >>So............ after all those replies, still no help in my situation at >>all.... Is my amp fuct? is it repairable? how much am I looking at? I am [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Of course, if you've been looking to upgrade to a different amp, this > might be the perfect opportunity." I used to charge 50 bucks when it hit the door coming in. After that it was 35 bucks an hour plus parts. Nearly all amps went out for between 50 and 100 dollars unless it was a full rebuild on a larger amp. I did this to keep my chops up after retiring from pro audio repair, your prices may be higher depending on your area. I was a little lower in price than my competition on average, some were cheaper but they were hacks. The amp probably has 2 fuses in parallel, some do this now so standard blade automotive fuses can be used. If the channel has shorted transistors then it will throw the whole amp into protect by shutting down the power supply, I doubt highly it has dual power supplies. I would suspect something quite simple, probably lower in cost. Chad look tell any1 wanting to fix your amp. i'll pay you $55 plus parts max. or you get 0 plus 0.n i find a new amp. usually they cave in. i NEVER ask how much to fix a amp. i'm paying ill tell you how much ill pay. you work for ME. > look tell any1 wanting to fix your amp. i'll pay you $55 plus parts > max. or you get 0 plus 0.n i find a new amp. usually they cave in. i > NEVER ask how much to fix a amp. i'm paying ill tell you how much ill > pay. you work for ME. Somehow I doubt he would work for you ... SignatureDan Snooks > look tell any1 wanting to fix your amp. i'll pay you $55 plus parts max. > or you get 0 plus 0.n i find a new amp. usually they cave in. You really shouldn't take advantage of the high school kids at vocational high schools like that... >> look tell any1 wanting to fix your amp. i'll pay you $55 plus parts max. >> or you get 0 plus 0.n i find a new amp. usually they cave in. > >You really shouldn't take advantage of the high school kids at vocational >high schools like that... If I ever got an ultimatum like that ($55 plus parts, max), you can bet your a.s I wouldn't spend a bunch of time troubleshooting it down to the individual failed component. I'd rip out the entire section that has the bad part and replace it with a new one. After all, if he's willing to pay a fair price for the parts, but not for my labor, then by God, it's parts he'll get! SignatureScott Gardner "There is a wicked pretense that one has been informed. But no such thing has truly occurred! A mere slogan, an empty litany. No arguments are heard, no evidence is weighed. It isn't news at all, only a source of amusement for idlers." (Gibson-Sterling, The Difference Engine) $55 labor is a good 2hour work for 1 person.if ya not smart enough to fix 1 or 2 burnt resistors in 2hours if you say no i'm not losing much. als if they give m alot of lip say ok il pay more just show me you poof of training you did usually people making over $15 an hour have a degree or something. oh and if i look at it and it looks fake ill tell you. remember i'm the boss. > $55 labor is a good 2hour work for 1 person.if ya not smart enough to > fix 1 or 2 burnt resistors in 2hours if you say no i'm not losing much. > als if they give m alot of lip say ok il pay more just show me you poof > of training you did usually people making over $15 an hour have a degree > or something. oh and if i look at it and it looks fake ill tell you. > remember i'm the boss. You have a lot to learn about the repair industry. I do have an engineering degree.. Your lip and amplifier wouldn't make it past the front door. I only worked on quality equipment that was worth fixing. You evidently have no idea what this is. Chad ok...youre the exspection. but like i told this one kid telling me how much he charges to install something.i told him nothings 100%.lol i paid him 20% lower in the end. remember i'm the boss. think i might get a tshirt made up to wear with stereo brands on it saying.''i'm the boss!'' lol > ok...youre the exspection. but like i told this one kid telling me how > much he charges to install something.i told him nothings 100%.lol > i paid him 20% lower in the end. > remember i'm the boss. think i might get a tshirt made up to wear with > stereo brands on it saying.''i'm the boss!'' lol If you were the boss, how is it that your "employee" can tell you to get the hell out of his shop? You're not his boss; you and he have entered into a mutually beneficial arrangement, and either one of you can say "nevermind" if the terms aren't right. You've got a lot to learn about the world. These things will come to you as you get older. and i can tell you ''youre fired'' HAhaHahaHa'' i think i'm older than all of you. > and i can tell you ''youre fired'' HAhaHahaHa'' He can essentially tell you the same by saying "get the hell out of my shop." yes but hes not going to stay open long telling customers to leave...... > yes but hes not going to stay open long telling customers to leave...... He's not going to stay open long working for half price either. Haven't you ever worked retail? Or worked some sort of service job? Sometimes there are customers you just don't want... if working for $20-$25 an hour is too lil for you.... youre an idot. >if working for $20-$25 an hour is too lil for you.... >youre an idot. Even if you could bill at that rate for eight hours a day, five days a week, every week of the year, that's only $52,000 a year, before taxes and business expenses. And techs usually can't charge for eight hours of labor in an eight-hour day, since there's paperwork, downtime and other duties that make up non-billable time. So yes, that is too little for me. SignatureScott Gardner "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." (Leonardo da Vinci) > if working for $20-$25 an hour is too lil for you.... > youre an idot. "Remember", my boss said sternly, " the customer is always right." "Oh, yeah?" I remarked, raising one eyebrow. "What about Bob Wald?" A wince passed over his face, and he shut his eyes. "Oh, god!" he groaned. "Don't tell me HE'S been in here again." He wandered away, shaking his head. > if working for $20-$25 an hour is too lil for you.... It's too little for lots of people. Try to find a good auto mechanic to work for that kind of money. Hell, even a good car audio installer. Look, the going rate is what it is. If they've got people coming into their store/shop willing to pay them $50/hr, or whatever it is (usually it's not that linear), then why should they cut you a half price discount for coming in there and bossing them around like an a.shole? > youre an idot. FYI: when hurling three-word insults at people, it's usually best that you spell more than one word correctly... because $25 an hour is better than 0. >because $25 an hour is better than 0. Yes, but you're assuming that if he turns you away, he'll have nothing else to work on. Refusing work on your equipment doesn't mean that he gets $0 an hour, it means he gets whatever his normal rate is while working on someone else's equipment. SignatureScott Gardner "Question _your own_ authority." > if working for $20-$25 an hour is too lil for you.... > youre an idot. Operating expenses: Rent Test equipment (priced any lately?) Power bill Taxes Consumables such as tools, chemicals, solder, wick, etc Professional services such as accountants, lawyers, etc. Business insurance Water to run the sh.tter, or at least getting the outhouse sucked out in Bob's neck of the world. Phone bill Trade schooling, to keep warranty repair center+travel Need I go on Seems easy but at 25 bucks an hour you are hosed Doing car audio I worked out of my home, I have a full time job but as stated earlier this was to keep my chops up and get chump change for gear. This is what a shop looks like with the BARE MINIMUM you will need to repair the average car amp, this is the home tinkering shop that recently has been added to with new HV and RF gear, getting into more tube stuff :) http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/cwahls/HPIM0899.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/cwahls/HPIM0896.jpg The place I was employed was a pro audio repair center, we repaired amps that would produce 10,000 watts (rms junior) and ran on 3 phase. A dummy load consisted of modified water heaters with pumps, glycol, and outside radiators! Not cheap stuff, not a cheap electric bill doing 8 hour burn in's. So when you move out of mom's house and realize what it takes to survive with the needed amenities and a few toys then come back, we will then school you on what it takes to run a business and not be filing bankruptcy. Chad all those things you listed are part of the business.on volume business itll pay all those. look if a guy comes in with a $400 piece of car audio and i come in with a $179 piece.i'm not going to pay $165 to fix mine but that other guy might. You have to charge what its worth. oh and you say you cant pay all those bills on $25 an hour.Well $0 a hour i bet wont either. Bob, I think you're missing the point... I think what's being said is that if you need to charge $50.00/hour just to cover expenses, then a 'customer' like yourself comes in and demands that you work on his product for half that; the answer is no. If those are your expenses, then only an unreasonable amount of volume could possibly make up for doing the work at half price. You are the picture-perfect definition of a troll. ~Mister.Lull >Bob, I think you're missing the point... I think what's being said is >that if you need to charge $50.00/hour just to cover expenses, then a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >~Mister.Lull Good point. These repair shop owners aren't buying second homes in the French Riviera with the money they make charging $50-$60 per hour. The reason why that's the going rate most places you look is that the owners have figured out that's what they have to charge to cover all of their expenses and make a fair profit. If there were a whole lot of extra profit at that price rate, we'd see price wars with some shops charging a lot less to try to win away customers. SignatureScott Gardner "Tis an ill wind that blows no minds." Remember when I said I worked on higher end gear that was worth fixing? Not only is it your job as a customer to determine if it is worth repairing but a competent tech will tell you right off that there's no sense in going ahead with the repair, it's good practices. As for the $0 an hour, don't fret. Things will keep breaking and people will still buy non-bottom-feeder gear. Chad i'm not so sure $25 IS better than $0. if he's packed with business, the time he takes having to listen to your 3rd grade reasoning, added to fact that your business interrupts the other items he has to fix, it might be more profitable for him to not even let you enter the door. If its 3/4 of the way through a work day(say 6 hours down 2 to go) and he's had no business and you come in with your haggling it would be cheaper to turn you away. let the tech go means at least a conservative $15/hr = $30. so this means that by staying and dealing with you he's going to lose $5(and work for free if he's not the tech). the only thing more valuable than money, is time and dealing with an IDOT takes a lot of time. I mean look at the length of this thread so far. > Remember when I said I worked on higher end gear that was worth fixing? > Not only is it your job as a customer to determine if it is worth [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Chad > i'm not so sure $25 IS better than $0. if he's packed with business, the > time he takes having to listen to your 3rd grade reasoning, added to fact > that your business interrupts the other items he has to fix, it might be > more profitable for him to not even let you enter the door. Not only that, but this jackass will go out and tell all his friends (both of them) that he got a lower rate, so everyone will be asking for one. Besides, half the time when people demand a lower rate and are refused, they'll come back later and pay full rate anyway. no you cant give every1 fair prices just afew amonth. and if you turn me down ill tell others not to go to you. youre over priced.... you gota give to get. remember most peole coming to you aint making $10 an hour. you think hes going to work hard 5 hours to pay you for 1hour????lol i'm in the southern part of the country.... and i know if i tell every1 to get a deal with you my deal is gone. dont be stupid.... > no you cant give every1 fair prices just afew amonth. and if you turn me > down ill tell others not to go to you. youre over priced.... Please explain how someone can be overpriced by selling goods or services for the going rate. > you gota give to get. > remember most peole coming to you aint making $10 an hour. What makes you say that? People making more than $10/hr don't buy amplifiers? > you think hes going to work hard 5 hours to pay you for 1hour????lol > i'm in the southern part of the country.... Figures... i see you cant read. i said ''most'' people. the key word is most...... i think most untrained or trained in less than 4weeks of all working people are making over $25 hr.i think most people working -at ford-gm-case tractor-dodge-kenworth trucks.etc plus other assembly lines dont make $25+ an hour. but you guys are trained professionals..... > i see you cant read. i said ''most'' people. > the key word is most...... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dont make $25+ an hour. > but you guys are trained professionals..... What the hell are you talking about? You think most untrained people make over $25/hour? What makes you say that? And what does that have to do with anything I asked? >i see you cant read. i said ''most'' people. > the key word is most...... > i think most untrained or trained in less than 4weeks of all working > people are making over $25 hr. not true. few make that much. Kids who make $6/hr at McDonalds will save their money to blow $300 on an amp. do you think they would rather pay $55 to get it fixed, or buy another amp for $300? > no you cant give every1 fair prices just afew amonth. and if you turn me > down ill tell others not to go to you. youre over priced.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and i know if i tell every1 to get a deal with you my deal is gone. dont > be stupid.... Ahhh now I get it, you think the labor rate should be what the consumer makes per hour. Hmmmm. Btw there has been many occasions I have worked on a piece for over 5 hours and charged for 2. Why? Because I got stumped and realized I was going at it wrong. The repair should have taken 2 hours, I billed for 2 hours... Another business loss. Chad ok.. if you rich people making $50 an hour. why are you here? plus why arent you all driving jags n hummers with $4000+ worth of equipment? > ok.. if you rich people making $50 an hour. > why are you here? I didn't realize this was a newsgroup for unemployed people only. > plus why arent you all driving jags n hummers with > $4000+ worth of equipment? Have you ignored all the posts on this subject? Do you honestly think that every $50 they make goes in their pockets? >ok.. if you rich people making $50 an hour. >why are you here? plus why arent you all driving jags n hummers with >$4000+ worth of equipment? Because we don't spend all of our disposable income on our cars and stereos. That's more of a high-school kid thing. Some of us have mortgages, others have kids, then there's investments because we know that we can't work forever. Also, many of us have other hobbies besides stereos and cars. To you, $50/hr might seem like all the money in the world, but it really isn't. SignatureScott Gardner "People must not do things for fun. We are not here for fun. There is no reference to fun in any Act of Parliament." >>ok.. if you rich people making $50 an hour. >>why are you here? plus why arent you all driving jags n hummers with >>$4000+ worth of equipment? > > Because we don't spend all of our disposable income on our cars and > stereos. That's more of a high-school kid thing. exactly > Some of us have mortgages, others have kids, then there's investments > because we know that we can't work forever. mortgage,kid, retirement, etc. > Also, many of us have other hobbies besides stereos and cars. true > To you, $50/hr might seem like all the money in the world, but it > really isn't. don't forget the tax bracket someone making $50/hr would be in. He wouldn't bring home but about 60% of that. unless he has a 401k or pays insurance, then even less disposable income. Scott Johnson lol...i can tell you dont make jack.....a hummer or jag aint nothing to any1 making $ 50 an hour. $50x30hrs=$1500 aweek......x48weeks=$72000 ayr. $72k a year isn't really that much if you've got a family to support, a mortgage to pay, kids to put through school, and a future to save for. Now, if your spouse is also pulling in $72k a year, that's another story... And to address your other post, no a $250k house isn't very expensive in many parts of the country. I know you said you're from the south, so that would be like a mansion down there. But in places like Massachusetts, Rhode Island, parts of New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, California and several other states, $250k will buy you a shack. I know people who bought houses 15 years ago in Massachusetts and Rhode Island for under $200k, and without putting much work into them they're now selling for close to half a million. The housing market has gone crazy there. But none of this is relevant anyway, because the shop owner who is charging you $50 an hour for service ISN'T MAKING $50/HR. This has been pointed out to you numerous times, yet you continue to ignore it. Do you think running a business is free? I suspect that when you get out of high school you'll start to see how the real world works. The fantasy land you live in will implode once you start a family or move out of Backwater, Mississippi. > lol...i can tell you dont make jack.....a hummer or jag aint nothing to > any1 making $ 50 an hour. > $50x30hrs=$1500 aweek......x48weeks=$72000 ayr. ok......first i am grown next i am a finance/tax expert thats my job. next if you have expenses at your job that lowers your taxes. i thought most of you work for yourself out of a lil shop or garage. with lil expenses. next if you make $50 an hr you might take home $40 an hour. with alil deductions. next a $250000 or any house you can buy 15% cheaper than list price. your car is 10% of your pay. that was funny. i will pay whatever i have to for cars/gas/ins/maintaince. not to be walking. i think around 15% is average.to 22%. a person here making 2k pays around $400 amonth just his car note on a lexus/infinity. > ok......first i am grown next i am a finance/tax expert thats my job. > next if you have expenses at your job that lowers your taxes. i thought [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > a person here making 2k pays around $400 amonth just his car note on a > lexus/infinity. tell me where i can buy a lexus or infinity for $400/month! (Scott, fix your clock!) > ok......first i am grown next i am a finance/tax expert thats my job. > next if you have expenses at your job that lowers your taxes. i thought > most of you work for yourself out of a lil shop or garage. > with lil expenses. You didn't read Chad's post? He listed for you specifically what his expenses are. > next if you make $50 an hr you might take home $40 an hour. with alil > deductions. > next a $250000 or any house you can buy 15% cheaper than list price. Huh? > your car is 10% of your pay. that was funny. > i will pay whatever i have to for cars/gas/ins/maintaince. not to be > walking. So the choice is Hummer, Lexus, or walk? > i think around 15% is average.to 22%. > a person here making 2k pays around $400 amonth just his car note on a > lexus/infinity. no any well running car is ok. my intrepid suits me now. you can buy houses cheaper than list price. >no any well running car is ok. my intrepid suits me now. >you can buy houses cheaper than list price. That depends on the market, and with the current sales boom, being able to arbitrarily knock 15-20% off of the asking price is getting rarer and rarer. In many markets, sellers are receiving multiple full-price offers or even offers for over the list price. The median home price last year for the entire U.S. was almost $210,000. That means that half of the homes sold went for more than that. And, that's what they actually SOLD for, not what the listing price was, so $210,000 was what the buyers paid AFTER they were able to talk down the seller, if they were able to talk down the seller at all. SignatureScott Gardner "I was an hour late to work today, but I'll leave an hour early to make up for it." i believe 50x40=$2000 awk, $100000 a yr. so i already took out for taxes/stuff. hes ot smart enough to see $50 hr. equals more than $72000 ayr. $72000 is after taves.doof! ok homer? >i believe 50x40=$2000 awk, $100000 a yr. so i already took out for >taxes/stuff. >hes ot smart enough to see $50 hr. equals more than $72000 ayr. $72000 >is after taves.doof! ok homer? Actually, you got the $72,000 a year by assuming only being able to bill 30 hours per week, and only working 48 weeks per year. Did you forget that you showed your math in that post? I thought that you were just being reasonable and realizing that a tech working 40 hours a week can't bill for all 40 (paperwork, downtime, lunches, etcetera), and that people do take time off from work. Now, if you're saying that you're talking about $72,000 "take home" pay, after all business expenses and taxes have been paid, then that's a different matter. That's equivalent to a gross pay of about $102,000 a year, and does give you more to work with when it comes to vehicle expenses. SignatureScott Gardner "The war isn't the war between the blacks and the whites, the liberals and the conservatives, or the Federation and the Romulans. It's between the clueful and the clueless." (an anonymous poster on cypherpunks list) listen you all are embarrassing yourselfs..with your math skills..please stop.my drink almost shot out my nose from all the laughing i'm doing while reading your posts...... And you want $50 an hours!! lol if i were you id be happy with $7 an hour. >listen you all are embarrassing yourselfs..with your math skills..please >stop.my drink almost shot out my nose from all the laughing i'm doing >while reading your posts...... >And you want $50 an hours!! lol >if i were you id be happy with $7 an hour. And yet you're unable to refute any specific points.... I guess it's easier to snip the whole post and throw up two or three lines of your own incoherent ranting. Go back to cruising for young Asian girls on the other newsgroups. SignatureScott Gardner "I don't deserve this award, but I have arthritis and I don't deserve that either". - Jack Benny |
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