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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / February 2006Do Swap Meet Subs (Pyle, Lanzar, Legacy) REALLY suck?
I am considering replacing my two aging 12" JL subwoofers and I am looking to go with two 15" subs for greater output. I have been doing a lot of shopping on Ebay lately and, prima fascia, those massive Lanzar and Pyle subs APPEAR to be an excellent deal. For $80-$100, you can get two brand new 15" subs with massive magnet structures, large rubber surrounds, 2.5" dual voice coils, high sensitivity, the works. Now my mother always taught me "you get what you pay for", so what's the catch here? They seem like such a better deal than JL, Kicker, Rockford, even Sony. Does anybody have one of these kind of subs? How does it work? How does it sound? I low-pass my subs over at 63Hz so they need only play the lowest octaves, and given the choice, I would rather have maximum output vs. SQ. I like my bass LOW and LOUD! MOSFET Thanks, MOSFET > I am considering replacing my two aging 12" JL subwoofers and I am looking > to go with two 15" subs for greater output. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > MOSFET IME The cheapo subs have a very limited frequency response. But do, like you said, have all the features of properly designed subs. Only not implemented properly. IMO Go with your budget. Just remember you may be out the little amount of money you put for the cheap stuff instead of using that to save for name brand (or lack thereof) drivers.  SignatureCyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* I've had crappy subs before (my first purchase in car audio was a box with 2 - 10" speakers for under 100 bucks shipped, thought it was a great deal) it boasted large magnets and ported enclosure and blah blah blah... but WOW, were they shitty..... I ended up changing them out for some polks that sounded MUCH better (bought them off ebay too ussed, were pretty cheap. I say if your looking for something like that, try getting something used off ebay, will probably spend a little mroe, but it will be worth it because most likely your going to want to replace the crappy subs anyway. just my .02 -Nick If you have the money, I think you should try it. I mean, the worst that could happen is that you don't like them and you're out a little money and whatever time in labor that it takes you build a box, install them, etc. And the big plus here, is that we all get to learn by your experience...good or bad!! One point to make. Have you ran the TS parameters to see what kind of box you'll need to make for them? I'm not sure if this is true, but many years ago I seem to recall that one of the big differences between the expensive subs and the really cheap ones were the size of the box they needed to go in. I could be completely wrong though. It would suck to buy a 15" el cheapo sub and then learn you have to make a 6 cu ft box for it! Tony Signature2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1 Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2 Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub This is all good advice. Thanks guys. MOSFET i had a pyle sub before it was a 10" it seemed a kool deal but it was all lies i tell u lies they destorted like a vacume cleaner and wore out fast and i never played them any where near there recomended power or frekz they were total (@#$@#$) trust me use them bux on a desent brand name you will enjoy the money spent. i ant sure where youse are from but i am from Australia sony is cheap and ok stuff . if i had a cheap budget i would probly nab them sony 14" / 15" whatever they are they would balisticate pyle or them other cheap ebay brands. oh and in case your wondering i have 3x 18" Resonant Engineering SX subwoofers and they literaly kill your ears they sell for AU$800 each OK Tony, you're going to get your wish... I "accidentilly" bought two brand new 15" Audio X subwoofers on Ebay. I say accidentally because the starting bid was $25 (for two) and so I bid, not really thinking I would win, well I did. I did some research on the net and apparently Audio X is more poplular in Germany where these particular subs sell for $70-$90 (60,00-80,00 EUR). Now I have to build (or buy) a box to try them. For $25 I'm not expecting much, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. MOSFET thats awsome maybe ill dig out some sparkomatic subs i got.we.ll blast out.LOL idiot. Actually those sparkomatics wasnt that bad. LOL Who needs JL, Alpine, RE, Kicker subs, when you got sparkomatic subs. They are the best. When I hook up my learjet or MEI amp to them look out, they will smoke out any car. >thats awsome maybe ill dig out some sparkomatic subs i got.we.ll blast >out.LOL >idiot. >Actually those sparkomatics wasnt that bad. "OK Tony, you're going to get your wish..." Way cool! I can't wait to hear about the results!! Tony Signature2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1 Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2 Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub That reminds me of this one girl I know who has Baja subs in her car...they sound like aluminum cans in the back! I've thought many a time about buying a bunch of the cheapest 12" subs I could find off ebay (like 16 of them) and putting them in a giant "wall" enclosure in a vehicle and see how it does at some local shop's soundoff for the hell of it. I've got 2 DEI 1100D amps, and with around 60WRMS rated on those subs should be able to power them well. You can get 16 4-ohm subs down to a 1-ohm final load easily :). At one point I figured I'd spend about $180 for the subs, plus a couple sheets of MDF and silicone and screws. Heck, still cheaper than so-called "competition" subs. Brandonb > OK Tony, you're going to get your wish... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > MOSFET > I've thought many a time about buying a bunch of the cheapest 12" subs I > could find off ebay (like 16 of them) and putting them in a giant "wall" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Brandonb It would put alot of setups to shame. Arrays of drivers lower distortion, raise sensitivity and move tons of air. Within reason of course. Cheaper subs usually have odd specs when related to Xmax, Qts, Le and Vas. As well as QC issues. YMMV. Where the hell would one install 16 12" drivers?! lol I'd prolly pitch in half just to see the monstrosity. SignatureCyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* > Where the hell would one install 16 12" drivers?! lol I'd prolly pitch > in half just to see the monstrosity. Probably either as one single wall across the back of a van, or 2 walls of 8 subs facing each other along the insides, running the length. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com i would go pyle subs...believe it or not.but once pyle was a leading sub maker.....i remember the pyle drivers....lol go pyle...king once more.... Oh! God please don't. Brandon might actually DO it if he's not fronting all the cash, and that means that im going to have to help build that monstrosity! lol -Brandenn >> I've thought many a time about buying a bunch of the cheapest 12" subs I >> could find off ebay (like 16 of them) and putting them in a giant "wall" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Where the hell would one install 16 12" drivers?! lol I'd prolly pitch > in half just to see the monstrosity. Shush you. Brandonb > Oh! God please don't. Brandon might actually DO it if he's not fronting all > the cash, and that means that im going to have to help build that [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>Where the hell would one install 16 12" drivers?! lol I'd prolly pitch >>in half just to see the monstrosity. > It would put alot of setups to shame. Arrays of drivers lower > distortion, raise sensitivity and move tons of air. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Where the hell would one install 16 12" drivers?! lol I'd prolly pitch > in half just to see the monstrosity. I mainly thought about it when I had my Tahoe, which had plenty of room. I could easily have done a wall with 4 subs up and down and 4 subs across. Actually, I could have done 5 across if I wanted. My current Jeep GC doesn't afford as much room, and its much nicer, so I probably wouldn't want to do it at this point unless I had a different vehicle. Brandonb - hmm... my roommate just bought an old beater full size Bronco... I think the consensus here is that when it comes to subwoofers, quantitiy is more important than quality. In other words, it is pretty much universally true that three $100 subs will blow away a single $300 sub. Efficency gains due to greater cone area being the main factor here. Of course, there are some truely awfull subwoofers out there that will perform poorly no watter what, but all things being equall, this rule applies. MOSFET I mainly wanted to do it to showup with a bunch of cheap no-name subs, like Radio Shack specials, paper cones, thin foam surrounds, small magnet, stamped basket, etc and just blow away the competition after they laughed for a good long while. And spend a franction of the cost. Brandonb > I think the consensus here is that when it comes to subwoofers, quantitiy is > more important than quality. In other words, it is pretty much universally [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > MOSFET But what you are missing is the fact that those 3 $100 subs will need a big enough box to fit 6 $300 a pop subs . This is what put JL on the map back in the day. Now when it comes to cone area vs space, you do the math. >I think the consensus here is that when it comes to subwoofers, quantitiy is >more important than quality. In other words, it is pretty much universally [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >MOSFET > But what you are missing is the fact that those 3 $100 subs will need a big > enough box to fit 6 $300 a pop subs . Depends on the T/S measurements, and accuracy of said measurements. IMO Thats one of the major problems with cheap drivers. > This is what put JL on the map back in > the day. Now when it comes to cone area vs space, you do the math. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > >MOSFET SignatureCyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* Now when it comes to cone area vs space, you do the math. Yes, but space is FREE, cone area costs money. That was my point. Obviously if space is limited, the more expensive sub may be your best option. But if space is plentiful, then the multiple cheap sub plan is better than the single expensive sub plan. MOSFET Space is free? Every car that I have seen had limited space, some more then others. With this said you will always fit more cone area in any limited space"car or bus" if the one of two subs of the sames size requires a smaller box, and the subs that tend to use smaller boxes are often more costly. > Now when it comes to cone area vs space, you do the math. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >MOSFET > > It would put alot of setups to shame. Arrays of drivers lower > > distortion, raise sensitivity and move tons of air. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Brandonb > - hmm... my roommate just bought an old beater full size Bronco... haha Walled vehicles make me chuckle for some reason. One would also need (IMO) at the least 4 competently designed component sets to somewhat even out the madness. 1 of each of those is enough for my s10, sub/comp set. Although not the cheapest or most expensive, I'm diggin the new Arsenal12. SignatureCyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* > haha Walled vehicles make me chuckle for some reason. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 1 of each of those is enough for my s10, sub/comp set. Although not the > cheapest or most expensive, I'm diggin the new Arsenal12. Oh hell no. Not in a low-budget ghetto beater like that. lots and lots of tweeters man! No midbass whatsoever! Can't even carpet the box. paint it primer or just plain (partical board) wood. If you're gonna do it, gotta go all out. Maybe even exposed wiring and not mounting down the amps. Brandonb Carpet and paint wont do anything for sq or spl. >Oh hell no. Not in a low-budget ghetto beater like that. lots and lots >of tweeters man! No midbass whatsoever! Can't even carpet the box. paint >it primer or just plain (partical board) wood. If you're gonna do it, >gotta go all out. Maybe even exposed wiring and not mounting down the amps. > >Brandonb You wanna talk CHEAP? When I was a teenager, my best friend and I had this wonderful idea. We took a 15" Radio Shack woofer and one of the those large, heavy-cardboard cylinders (I think they used them to pour concrete or something like that). Anyway, it was about 15" in diameter.... Yep, we duct-taped that sucker right to the top of the cylinder, and used a piece of wood along the bottom and made our very own ghetto-bazooka tube! You woudn't believe how LOUD that sucker was!!! Oh man...I haven't thought about that for YEARS!!!! LOL Tony Signature2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1 Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2 Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub > You wanna talk CHEAP? When I was a teenager, my best friend and I had this > wonderful idea. We took a 15" Radio Shack woofer and one of the those [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tony Hah You wouldn't believe how many there are with Sonotube subs in their house. Most look like in room water heaters. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=sonotube%20subwoofer&btnG=Google+ Search&sa=N&tab=wi SignatureCyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* > it primer or just plain (partical board) wood. If you're gonna do it, > gotta go all out. Maybe even exposed wiring and not mounting down the > amps. > > Brandonb Hell yeh, man!!!! I got 8 15" subs driven by an EQ/booster and two dual-cone speakers sitting on the floor of my ride!! It rocks!!!!!!!! MOSFET As the roommate in question - I will gladdly volunteer the use of the Bronco for this project. and Nelsen you know you miss the quality time wasted in my garage, lol With modern technology and manufacturing processes, a lot of the cheap subs are becoming better and better. Main things to look for: bigger magnet and surrounds don't mean they sound better or will handle more power. Quality control and warranties is probably the biggest thing. With those subs you got, you might actually be pleased with the result if you build a box to suit them. Brandonb > I am considering replacing my two aging 12" JL subwoofers and I am looking > to go with two 15" subs for greater output. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > MOSFET Yes, there are a couple of things that got me thinking about the "cheaper sub" approach. First, I have always been impressed at JL and in particular their W0 line and just how much volume can be produced by a relatively small motor structure (the 12W0 has a 30 oz, magnet and 1.5" voice coil). So I realize that magnet size is not the end-all-be-all. I have a lot of room to work with in my car, bassically the whole back-end of a Suburu Forester. And I have a Soundstream Reference 700 that can handle very low impedence loads (1 ohm bridged). So my idea was instead of trying two high-quality 12" subs, I would try two or three 15" subs or three or four12" subs of modest quality. In fact, as my amp can only put out 700 watts RMS it would be silly to buy two monster subs (1,000 watt models). The 15" subs I bought can handle 350 watts RMS (700 watts max), so this THEORETICALLY should be perfect. And the efficency of these subs is much better than most 12's. Of course, the fear is that these subs are built poorly, and sound terrible. WE shall see!! MOSFET > I am considering replacing my two aging 12" JL subwoofers and I am > looking to go with two 15" subs for greater output. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > MOSFET IMO if you want cheap subs that sound good look at Ultralinear. They have 12's and 15's with SVC and DVC configs for cheap that have excellent frequency response. I forked over a few hundred for two Audiobahns and a BOSS ripper not too long ago. The BOSS amp really worked out well and is now one of my favorite amps, but the Audiobahns just sounded like sh.t no matter what I paired them with. Frequency response was sh.t and I've heard 6x9's that nearly dropped harder than they did. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/grungeturtle/sub.jpg I've had a few Pyle and Pyramid amps also. I couldn't stand most of the Pyle or Pyramid amps, but the Pyramid Super Blue was decent because it had enough power for smaller 5 1/2'' speakers and adjustable bass/treble. The Pyramid Crystal amp paired with two 4-way Soundstorm 6x9's sounds incredible. I got a lot of comments from people on the clarity and response from that cheap amp/speaker combo. |
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