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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / February 2006Help with wiring
I have just ordered two 400 watt amps, one 4 channel and one 2 channel. I picked up a set of 6.5 Kenwood components for the front speakers in the doors. Next on the list is rear 6.5's, thinking of Polk DB650s but are just a bit more than what I wanted to spend. And a sub, thinking of a Pioneer 10" 50 dollar sub. Opinions? My main question is wiring the rca's. I cant see spending more on wiring than I would on a set of speakers. I am thinking of using RG6 and RCA connectors, 12 guage to run the speakers, 4 guage for power and ground. Is this enough to handle the load and be decent enough shielding? > I have just ordered two 400 watt amps, one 4 channel and one 2 channel. > I picked up a set of 6.5 Kenwood components for the front speakers in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ground. Is this enough to handle the load and be decent enough > shielding? 4 gauge is more than enough for that wattage. 12 guage is good size for your speaker wire. But I've never used coax cable for audio before. I'd personally go for some Monster RCA cable, even though it's a little on the expensive side it's a good investment because you're trying to guarantee the integrity of the primary signal. Monsters provide a thicker guage wiring on both positive and negative compared to coax. But then again, that's a toss up for me. Not sure how well the coax will do. I searched google and I think I found the sub you are looking at, the TSW250R. If so, you might want to look here: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewitem.php?id=5296 The same sub for about 15 bucks less? Thismorning I was also looking for a good, low-priced 10'' sub and found the Cerwin Vega 10'' HED-10DVC. It has similar low-end frequency response (20hz to 500hz) to the Pioneer you were looking at (20hz to 4.5khz), but is rated for slightly higher wattage and has dual voice coils. If you wanted to spend a little extra money you could run two of those at 2ohms stereo on one of your 400W amps and take full advantage of the power it produces and still have a little power to spare (about 100W). Running them like this would make up for the slighly lower db rating of the Cerwin's (88db) compared to the Pioneer (90db), and people usually say that stereo subs are always smoother than a mono sub, not to mention you'd be moving twice the air. I guess the biggest issue for you would probably be the enclosure type. The Cerwin is specified for a sealed enclosure and the Pioneer is specified for both sealed and ported. Most people like ported enclosures, although I tend to go for sealed. The link for the Cerwin Vega 10 is here: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewitem.php?id=269 Just my opinions, not the ten commandments. he would not be able to run two of the CV subs @ 2ohms. They are dual 4 ohm voice coils. He could run them at 1ohm(bad idea) or 4 ohms. With those two pioneers, he could run them in parallel and get a 2 ohm load, and be drawing 400W assuming that the 400W rating he gave was RMS and not Peak. That'd work out better for power usage.  Signature- AUSTIN BECKER > > > I have just ordered two 400 watt amps, one 4 channel and one 2 [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Just my opinions, not the ten commandments. > he would not be able to run two of the CV subs @ 2ohms. They are dual > 4 ohm voice coils. He could run them at 1ohm(bad idea) or 4 ohms. > With those two pioneers, he could run them in parallel and get a 2 ohm > load, and be drawing 400W assuming that the 400W rating he gave was > RMS and not Peak. That'd work out better for power usage. 2 ohms stereo... justin time <justintime@nospam.ccc> wrote in news:Xns976F8787D9DD4nnnnnn@ 38.119.106.45: >> he would not be able to run two of the CV subs @ 2ohms. They are dual >> 4 ohm voice coils. He could run them at 1ohm(bad idea) or 4 ohms. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > 2 ohms stereo... Sorry, I should have further explained myself. Most stereo amps that I have come across support 2 ohm stereo operation. He can config two DVC 4ohm subs to run 2ohms each on separate stereo channels. And most of the amps I use, even the cheaper generic amps, do indeed push their stated wattage when you run them this way. > he would not be able to run two of the CV subs @ 2ohms. They are dual > 4 ohm voice coils. He could run them at 1ohm(bad idea) or 4 ohms. > With those two pioneers, he could run them in parallel and get a 2 ohm > load, and be drawing 400W assuming that the 400W rating he gave was > RMS and not Peak. That'd work out better for power usage. I almost forgot, there's a 99% chance that the load presented by 2-channel amp bridged into 2 ohms would smoke it. I've never seen a 2-channel amp that supported bridging into 2 ohms, but there might be some. It's unlikely that his does (he didn't state the brand or model). I've never seen a 2-channel amp > that supported bridging into 2 ohms, but there might be some. Back in the day, there were many, many stereo amps that supported low-impedance bridged loads (as low as 1/4 ohm). The reason behind this was competitions. Classes in both SQ events (IASCA) as well as SPL events (db Drag, for instance) were based on manufacturer rated 4 ohm impedances. Obviously, a competitor had an advantage if they could get 1000 watts out of an amplifier rated at 25 watts X 2. These were called "cheater" amps, and I use one of these old-school babies to drive my subs, a Soundstream Reference 700. It can handle 1 ohm bridged loads. MOSFET > I've never seen a 2-channel amp >> that supported bridging into 2 ohms, but there might be some. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > MOSFET LMAO. That kicks a.s and all, but I wish you hadn't told me that. Now I feel bad because I'm having better dreams of equipment I'll never be able to afford. It's a power house, the Soundstream Reference 700 is a monster of power, at one ohm is also makes a good car heater. >Back in the day, there were many, many stereo amps that supported >low-impedance bridged loads (as low as 1/4 ohm). The reason behind this was [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >MOSFET > It's a power house, the Soundstream Reference 700 is a monster of power, > at > one ohm is also makes a good car heater. LOL You are soooo right. It's funny, though, 10 years ago I used to use a SS Reference 705 (5 channel amp, 50 watts X 4 and 1 X 200 at 4 ohms or 1 X 400 at 2 ohms) and it NEVER got hot. No matter how hard I drove it, it never got more than luke warm. But this 2 channel amp gets REALLY hot. Of course, the 705 was much bigger. MOSFET Want heat try an older Orion HCCA amp, I think they painted them bright red so people couldnt see them glow from all of the heat. Not that their GX or SX line of amps ran much cooler. >LOL You are soooo right. It's funny, though, 10 years ago I used to use a >SS Reference 705 (5 channel amp, 50 watts X 4 and 1 X 200 at 4 ohms or 1 X [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >MOSFET > Want heat try an older Orion HCCA amp, Those were GREAT amps!! 1/4 ohm stable bridged!!!!!!!!!!!! The HCCA line of subwoofers were also a classic. MOSFET Oh hell ya, My dream amp back in the day was the Orion 2100hcca, just couldn't afford one back then, in fact couldn't afford half of one back then. However I have owned the 2150GX, 280GX, 250sx, 275sx and the big old mighty 222sx and all were great amps. Buying one today just doesn't make sense, now that I can finally afford one. I'll tell ya though, car audio is much easier now a days then it was 15-20 years ago. Back then a 500watt amp that you could not feed enough power to, along with a pair of 100-150 watt subs with no xmax was just a massive system. The high tech guys had alpine cassette decks with a remote. If your headlights were dimming to the bass you could always upgrade your alternator from 60amps to a massive 90 or 100amps, and if that didn't work, you could always get a gel-cell battery for the trunk for about $400-500 at your local indy 500 race car shop. lol. >Those were GREAT amps!! 1/4 ohm stable bridged!!!!!!!!!!!! The HCCA line >of subwoofers were also a classic. > >MOSFET . I am thinking of using RG6 > and RCA connectors, 12 guage to run the speakers, 4 guage for power and > ground. Is this enough to handle the load and be decent enough > shielding? The shielding of coax is good and would probably be useful in the automotive environment. But I'll bet most people here would probably tell you that a good set of twisted-pair RCA's is the best way to go. I am no EE (I'm SURE someone can explain this better than I), but the twisted-pair configuration provides common mode rejection and helps reduce any induced noise. I have ALWAYS gone with twisted-pair RCA's in my car. I have used Monster Cable's 401 XLN with great results, but right now I am using Phoenix Gold ARX series for the subwoofer and PG Zeropoint series for the mains (all twisted-pair designed). I can't say Phoenix Gold cables sound better than Monster, BUT I can say that the PG seems to be built more rugged than the Monster XLN series (the male connector on the Monster REALLY HOLDS ON TIGHT and if you pull on the cord to remove it as you are frequently forced to do when working in tight spaces around the amp, you can damage the cable, the PG is more rugged and you cannot damage it). My $.02. MOSFET |
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