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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / March 2006dimension problems
I am attempting to put in 2 Sony xplod 12's into my girlfriend's car a 1999 mazda protege. I am trying to get the correct dimensions for the necessary 1.15 cu. ft. for a sealed box. Problem is everything I come up with on the dimensions leaves me trying to get things down to tenths of inches or smaller into the hundreths of an inch. Should I just put a little extra on the boxes? If you are using .75" wood, you would need a external box box size 26w"x 13h"x10"d this will give you a VB of 1.15 and cutoff frequency of 49.57hz Copyright 1992-2004 by Harris Technologies, Inc. >I am attempting to put in 2 Sony xplod 12's into my girlfriend's car a >1999 mazda protege. I am trying to get the correct dimensions for the >necessary 1.15 cu. ft. for a sealed box. Problem is everything I come >up with on the dimensions leaves me trying to get things down to tenths >of inches or smaller into the hundreths of an inch. Should I just put >a little extra on the boxes? Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that plan... What is wrong with that plan?  Signature- AUSTIN BECKER > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that > plan... Nearly 50Hz for two 12 inch subs?!! That's just not using technology wisely (my 6.5's go lower than that!!!!). I have 1 10inch sub that goes to 26Hz, and while you may not want to go that low, you should want it to go at LEAST as low as 35Hz... You plan on putting two 12's in a 1.15 cubic foot enclosure, which will give you that high Hz level. I suggest maybe only putting one 12 in that same enclosure, and that alone may bring that level down to 35-40Hz... Just my dirty ol' two cents. ~Mister.Lull > What is wrong with that plan? > > -- > - AUSTIN BECKER > > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that > > plan... F3 cutoff between 48 - 51hz for a pair 12's in a sealed box is normal. I don't think that you fully understand the way this works. Say if you have a F3 of 50Hz, this is the loudest point for the box before it starts rolling off. This does not mean that that the sub will not got down to 35hz, it just means that the box is most efficient (Loudest) at 50hz. Lets pick on Mosfet for a minute, He said that his box is a 1.5cuft sealed box with his mtx subs mounted on the outside. His F3 is 50.92hz with those subs, if the subs had ugly baskets he would end up with an F3 of 53.14hz. How's it sound mosfet? >Nearly 50Hz for two 12 inch subs?!! That's just not using technology >wisely (my 6.5's go lower than that!!!!). I have 1 10inch sub that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that >> > plan... > Lets pick on Mosfet for a minute, He said that his box is a 1.5cuft sealed > box [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it > sound mosfet? Why me? Pick on Bob W. Actually, I haven't tried mounting them with the baskets on the inside, yet. As a matter of fact, those subs now reside in a slot-ported enclosure (with the baskets on the outside once again, OF COURSE). I know, I know, I should have done my homework to see how everything would work together using T/S parameters and loading that into a box-building program (and I will as I know there is less of a fudge-factor with ported enclosures) but I thought I would give it a go as is. MOSFET Bob doesn't have anything worth while to pick on. Plus I had your specs already. How does it sound in the ported box? Those subs need a good 3 - 3.5 cuft to get the most out of them. >Why me? Pick on Bob W. Actually, I haven't tried mounting them with the >baskets on the inside, yet. As a matter of fact, those subs now reside in a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >MOSFET I haven't listened to them enough in the ported box to really reach a firm decision. My INITIAL impressions were positive. The bass seemed punchy and clear, like the sealed box. And as should be expected, overall SPL was definately higher, though not as much as what I expected (perhaps 2 dB higher, but surely not 4 to 6 dB). And of course, I noticed a steep roll-off below 35Hz on some of my techno songs. But there was something interesting I noticed, and maybe it was my imagination, but it seemed like the upper bass regions (around 60-90Hz) seemed tighter. MOSFET > Bob doesn't have anything worth while to pick on. Plus I had your specs > already. How does it sound in the ported box? Those subs need a good 3 - [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >>MOSFET Mosfet what is your box tuned at ? >I haven't listened to them enough in the ported box to really reach a firm >decision. My INITIAL impressions were positive. The bass seemed punchy and [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>> >>>MOSFET That's a DAMN good question Howdy. I have NO idea. In the morning I will go out and measure the thing and start getting scientific about this. MOSFET > Mosfet what is your box tuned at ? > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >>>> >>>>MOSFET ... The Captain has Cought me off guard... I apologize, I'm one of those poeple who goes for the quality of the sound WAY over the SPL or anything; Case in Point, that 10 of mine that I put in a ported box and tuned the box to 26Hz - It's only powered by 150 watts rms... So, you see, I quickly forget that if you're pushing the hell out of a couple of speakers that they can still get pretty low, even if the box isn't tuned like that... I do, however, stand by my recomendation of only needing 1 sub with the following change: Port the box, too. But only becuase that's what I understand and love }:-) ~Mister.Lull > F3 cutoff between 48 - 51hz for a pair 12's in a sealed box is normal. I don't > think that you fully understand the way this works. Say if you have a F3 of [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >> > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that > >> > plan... Alright, What does the quality of sound have to do with anything that we have talked about or spl for that matter? You have a ported 10 and the box is tuned to 26hz? Well that's great but, you dont tune a ported box, you tune the port (fb). As for the F3 it shouldn't be any lower then the sub's fs if you are looking for sound quality. So what are you getting at ? >.... The Captain has Cought me off guard... > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >> > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that >> >> > plan... Whoa there, captain - no need to get angry... I'm just trying to say that I don't like sealed boxes, and think that a ported box sounds better and requires less power... My termonology isn't up to par, I'm sure: I thought that SPL was very basically pressure (caused by shitloads of power). Therefore, if you have a lot of SPL you have a lot of power. If you have a lot of power, your subs can hit the nice low notes without having a larger volume ported box. All in all, the moral of my post should read that my opinion is my opinion, and that I know what I know - and I like what I know. I was, in no way trying to attack anyone else's way of doing things. ~Mister.Lull > Alright, What does the quality of sound have to do with anything that we have > talked about or spl for that matter? You have a ported 10 and the box is tuned [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > >> >> > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that > >> >> > plan... Angry me? never. I just didn't understand what you were trying to say. I thought you were saying that sealed boxes did not hit low. I totally agree sealed boxes do suck balls, and I totally agree that ported boxes are more efficient vs sealed boxes. Your opinion, now that know what you are talking about is not only your opinion, it's a fact. Ported boxes on average will give you 3 - 6 db (spl) more over sealed boxes. The number seems small, but your ears dont hear it that way. SPL is a measurement of sound via pressure. If it makes a sound no matter what it is, then it produces spl. I can see how this can be misunderstood too many people talk about spl and sound quality like as if you can have one without the other. I tell people that spl is real and sound quality is an opinion. That's like walking in to a shoe store and saying to the sales person, I don't want to buy a shoe, I just want to buy a comfortable fit. >Whoa there, captain - no need to get angry... >I'm just trying to say that I don't like sealed boxes, and think that a [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> >> >> > Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that >> >> >> > plan... so captain, if I port the boxes I need .82 cu ft. Dimensions???? What about bandpass??? Anyone got an opinion on that??? I just like the crisp sound of a sealed box Well that all depends on what you want the ported box tuned at. Bandpass flat out sucks balls unless you want something for spl farts, it's tunning range is very narrow. >so captain, if I port the boxes I need .82 cu ft. Dimensions???? What >about bandpass??? Anyone got an opinion on that??? I just like the >crisp sound of a sealed box You'd be amazed at how many people like that though. Brandonb > Well that all depends on what you want the ported box tuned at. Bandpass flat > out sucks balls unless you want something for spl farts, it's tunning range is > very narrow. Okay, I do not have a lot of experience when it comes to ported tuning, I like the very low to hit HARD. I listen to techno, and rap mostly, little rock. Should I maybe do 2 10's and 2 12's? although then I really end up using a lot of space. A pair good of 12's should do the trick. When you get a pair of 12's let me know how much room you got to play with. >Okay, I do not have a lot of experience when it comes to ported tuning, >I like the very low to hit HARD. I listen to techno, and rap mostly, >little rock. Should I maybe do 2 10's and 2 12's? although then I >really end up using a lot of space. I have the 2 Sony Plod 12's, and I have just shy of 13 cu ft of space in the trunk All right, get me the max measurements W x H x D of your trunk and I will also need the model number of your subs, Sony Xplod specs change every year. >I have the 2 Sony Plod 12's, and I have just shy of 13 cu ft of space >in the trunk Hey Captain the trunk is about 3.5 X 2.5 X 1.5 and I have 2 sony xplod XSL 1230 Hey captain, I just looked it up on sony's help site it is actually XS L1236. It is recomended sealed and 1 cu ft. Dimensions for sealed, or would a ported still work? I just don't want to blow these subs for a little while. Here is the link so you can check out the subs dimensions. <http://esupport.sony.com/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=XSL1236> Check out the product guide it give the most info Hey Dave, That was easy, I have great box for you, I am running this box with the XSL1236 right now. The box is a little big, but it sounds wild no matter what kind of music you push into it. It's a single chamber, single port design. Dimensions external are 36"w X 14"H X 18"D Port: 2.5"W X 12.5"H x 14.75"D This will give you an Fb 36Hz Cut list.......................... 1 sheet of 0.75 wood will do the trick. 2 x (Top and bottom) 36" X 18 1 x (rear) 12.5"x 34.5" 1 x (front) 12.5" x 32" 2 x (sides) 12.5"x 18" 1x (port) 12.5" x 14" fb 36Hz or 1x (port) 12.5 x 12.75" fb 37Hz or 1x (port) 12.5 x 11.75" fb 38Hz >Hey Captain the trunk is about 3.5 X 2.5 X 1.5 and I have 2 sony xplod >XSL 1230 Thanx, can you explain a little bit about the porting, and how to do it, I am really new to the porting idea. Also please check out my other post about infinity, I am trying to figure some things about them as well. The port is nothing but a opening in the box that is tuned to resonate at a given frequency. The tuned frequency of a port is tuned by adjusting the size of the port's size, most people do this by adjusting the length of the port, since adjusting the width is very limiting, if you make the port opening too narrow you will get air rushing noise. Get a tube a silicone to seal the seams so that they are air tight. Here is a picture of what the box should look like with the top off. http://home.cogeco.ca/~mrled/box.jpg As for Infinity, I like some of their speakers, their amps are nothing great. I rate their amps with the likes of sony, profile, pioneer, while I find these amps to work just fine with mid's or 6x9's they lack under heavy power loads when running subs off of them. Some of these cheap grade amps produce more heat then power. >Thanx, can you explain a little bit about the porting, and how to do >it, I am really new to the porting idea. Also please check out my >other post about infinity, I am trying to figure some things about them >as well. So captain, if I were to get 2 infinity kappa perfect 12's dvc what amp should I run them on and should I run them in a circuit or a parallel? Also if I were to run them what should I try to get as far as the ohm's? they normally run at 4 would it be possible to get them down to either 1 or 2 and would that possibly burn my subs or amp? If they are dual 4 ohm, you can wire each of the coils in parallel to get it down to 1 ohm, or run series parallel and get 4 ohms. P.S. parallel is a circuit also... what you were looking for was series or parallel. If you ran all voice coils in series, you'd barely even hear your music if at all. Signature- AUSTIN BECKER > So captain, if I were to get 2 infinity kappa perfect 12's dvc what amp > should I run them on and should I run them in a circuit or a parallel? > Also if I were to run them what should I try to get as far as the > ohm's? they normally run at 4 would it be possible to get them down to > either 1 or 2 and would that possibly burn my subs or amp? thanx couldn't think of series anyway got any ideas on a good amp that will push 2 12's that need about 350w per? Also I thought that a ported box meant less space these call for 1 cu ft for sealed and 1.75 cu ft for ported can that be right? a Viper D1200 should be sufficient for the 350 each part. It will do something like 700 @ 2 ohms and 1100 @ 1 ohm. Yes ported enclosures are generally larger than the sealed. I had my Pioneer in a sealed built to spec @ 1.25cubes. The ported suggestion was 1.65 cubes. I put it in 1.9, and WOW!!!!! Signature- AUSTIN BECKER > thanx couldn't think of series anyway got any ideas on a good amp that > will push 2 12's that need about 350w per? Also I thought that a > ported box meant less space these call for 1 cu ft for sealed and 1.75 > cu ft for ported can that be right? I listen to mostly techno and rap, and I love the ported box I just installed for my two MTX 1204 12" subs. If in a well designed box, you will find that your Sony subs will sound just as tight as a sealed box. My bass is VERY tight, and I really do appreciate the SPL increase that comes along with ported boxes. If you enjoy techno and rap, I would STRONGLY consider going ported. I used to feel like you, that ported boxes were just not as tight and lacked the impact of a sealed box. I have COMPLETELY changed my tune. Try listening to some different box designs before you decide. MOSFET > Okay, I do not have a lot of experience when it comes to ported tuning, > I like the very low to hit HARD. I listen to techno, and rap mostly, > little rock. Should I maybe do 2 10's and 2 12's? although then I > really end up using a lot of space. Hi all, Mr. has a point, but tuning a box for around 50 Hz isn't that bad an idea... remember the bass boost you get from the car. From the LDC, 6th edition: a computed average of several mike locations in the car... has perhaps 7 or 8 dB additional lift in the 40-50 Hz region and an enormous 20 dB of boost at 20 Hz. it's all about pressure... smiles, Jamie > Nearly 50Hz for two 12 inch subs?!! That's just not using technology > wisely (my 6.5's go lower than that!!!!). I have 1 10inch sub that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> Given Captain Howdy's findings, I hope that you decide against that >>> plan... Thanx Captain Howdy, that helps Thanx Captain Howdy, that helps > I am attempting to put in 2 Sony xplod 12's into my girlfriend's car a > 1999 mazda protege. I am trying to get the correct dimensions for the > necessary 1.15 cu. ft. for a sealed box. Problem is everything I come > up with on the dimensions leaves me trying to get things down to tenths > of inches or smaller into the hundreths of an inch. Should I just put > a little extra on the boxes? Did you remember to include the volume taken up by the speaker baskets and the wiring? Wires take up some of that space too, remember... No, but seriously folks, such small differences are really insignificant - anything between 1.1cu.ft. to 1.2 cu.ft. will be fine. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0610-0, 03/06/2006 Tested on: 3/8/2006 7:43:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com i dont think your gf cant handle 2, 12s..1 maybe. do you want me to come over n see for you????? |
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