> There's no downside in running 3 subs in a ported shared chamber.
> > There's no downside in running 3 subs in a ported shared chamber.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> <SNIP>
Dan, I don't understand the math on this in a logical manner.
If I have an 800cuFt room with 3 people moving/floating in it and one
person quits moving and falls asleep does the room suddenly get larger
per person? All 3 people have the whole room to move in, 800cuFt, since
they are not divided by solid walls or restricted to their own small
portion. With only 2 people active in the same 800cuFt room they have
the same amount of space to move in they did before, except for possibly
bumping into each other and the third sleeping person. They still have
the whole 800cuFt space. I would agree that if I removed one person
from the room the interior available volume would change by the volume
used by that person, it would increase, but it doesn't make any
difference in room/box volume if the contents are not changed.
Do you see where my difficulty lies in understanding your logic?
TIA

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D.Kreft - 26 Dec 2006 20:20 GMT
> > <SNIP>Dan, I don't understand the math on this in a logical manner.
> Do you see where my difficulty lies in understanding your logic?
Yeah, a bad analogy. The problem with your analogy is that your people
are *in* the room, and the subwoofers act *on* a room from the outside.
One of my favorite activities, even to this day, is to go to fairs and
get in the bounce houses with the kids. If you spend enough time in
these things, you'll quickly note that if everyone jumps up and down at
the exact same time, you'll get a lot higher because there really isn't
much of a place for the displaced air to go, so it compresses--which
takes quite a bit of energy to do. If everyone jumps at the same time
and with the same force, your pushing down will push up someone else
who is pushing down (and visa versa) and so the floor seems fairly
stiff.
Now, if half of the people stop jump altogether and just kinda go along
for the ride, you'll notice that the floor of the bounce house is a
*lot* spongier...when you attempt to jump, your feet sink further into
the cushion until the internal pressure balances or exceeds that of
your upward thrust. If you're really big like me (7'0", 270lbs), and if
you try hard enough, you can even hit the ground under the bounce house
if you're the only one making any attempt to jump--and that's painful.
Unlike a loudspeaker, I don't have a surround and a spider to
mechanically limit my travel, so I'm at the mercy of the springy air
mass below me.
The bounce house analogy also exaplains why you don't ever put two
drivers of a different size in an enclosure. Let's say there's me, at
270 lbs., and my 3-year-old boy who weighs about 60 lbs. or so and
we're both in the bounce house. Caleb can jump up and down all he wants
and as hard as he wants for as long he wants and it's barely going to
affect me--I'll just stand there, relatively close to the hard ground
beneath me and just bob up and down a tiny bit. Then if, while he
continues to jump, I start making large, slow movements, I'll start
"modulating" his jumps...and if he is at the bottom while I'm hitting
the cushion, I'm going to send him through the roof (and then he'll run
out of the bounce house crying and seeking hugs from his mommy :-).
Get it now?
-dan
> > There's no downside in running 3 subs in a ported shared chamber.I don't think this is entirely true. Using three discrete chambers...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> solid wall in between each pair of drivers not only makes the box
> really strong, but it also multi-functional.
A well constructed box won't flex. You can make it 10" thick and the
only thing it will gain you over a properly constructed 3/4" mdf box
is a bunch of weight and a bigger box.
> 2) makes the subwoofer system more fault tolerant. If you have a single
> common chamber of volume V for N subwoofers and one sub fails, the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> chambers, however, even a failure of all but one driver won't affect
> remaining good speaker.
At least you'll know that one of the subs is blown :) I had a buddy
running around with four separate ported enclosures (fiberglassed into
the interior) and he didn't realize one of them was blown! There's
more danger with a sub blowing in a shared *sealed* chamber though.
One blown sub can actually cause damage in the other good subs. In a
vented box, it's possible but much less likely.
> 3) will minimize the amount of interaction between the subwoofers. No
> two drivers are perfectly identical in all respects (even drivers
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> (hopefully) so small as to be unperceptible by the human ear, but I
> mention it for completeness' sake.
Uhhh... yeah. I'll bet a million dollars you could do double blind
tests for the rest of your life and not be able to tell a difference.
> For more on box design and bracing, see:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> -dan
Your points are valid but the end result is negligible. But
realistically, how often do you see a box with 3 separate chambers
using *slotted* vents. Ported vents, yes... slotted? I have to admit
I've never seen one before and I've seen a lot of boxes.
You get more port turbulence with slotted vents if they aren't done
right. I hate a chuffing box :)
Erik - 27 Dec 2006 02:29 GMT
> using *slotted* vents. Ported vents, yes... slotted? I have to admit
> I've never seen one before and I've seen a lot of boxes.
>
> You get more port turbulence with slotted vents if they aren't done
> right. I hate a chuffing box :)
*EDIT*
I mean to say "Round vents" not "Ported vents".
But back to the issue at hand. The original poster's dimensions won't
work for application he's trying to use. Sounds like he has limited
space to work with. Using round ports vs. slotted vents makes more
sense.
E
D.Kreft - 27 Dec 2006 07:25 GMT
> A well constructed box won't flex.
I'm sorry..did I somehow suggest it would? My point was that it's
easier to *make* that well-constructed box well constructed when it's
broken up into discrete chambers.
> You can make it 10" thick and the
> only thing it will gain you over a properly constructed 3/4" mdf box
> is a bunch of weight and a bigger box.
I'd be willing to bet that the 10" box would be less lossy than your
3/4" MDF box. Unless, of course, you're talking about a spherical
subwoofer enclosure...in which case the thickness of the wall isn't as
important as the tensile and compressive strength of the material used
to create the enclosure. :-)
> At least you'll know that one of the subs is blown :) I had a buddy
> running around with four separate ported enclosures (fiberglassed into
> the interior) and he didn't realize one of them was blown!
I'd rather run around for a month and not realize I had a blown driver
than to have one fail and wind up *having* to purchase two. As your
emoticon suggests, this is a pretty silly argument.
> Uhhh... yeah. I'll bet a million dollars you could do double blind
> tests for the rest of your life and not be able to tell a difference.
As I said...I was just being thorough. USENET is a great forum for
getting shredded for omitting obscure edge cases.
> Your points are valid but the end result is negligible. But
> realistically, how often do you see a box with 3 separate chambers
> using *slotted* vents. Ported vents, yes... slotted? I have to admit
> I've never seen one before and I've seen a lot of boxes.
I've seen 'em with two drivers
(http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_enclosures_pages.php?menu=8&page_id=25).
It's been a *long* time, but if memory serves, I think I actually
designed one for three JL Audio W6 drivers that used three slotted
ports.
> You get more port turbulence with slotted vents if they aren't done
> right. I hate a chuffing box :)
You get lots of problems with anything if it's not done right. I get
chafing on my inner thigh if I don't put my underwear on right, but
that doesn't mean I get up in the morning and decide to "give us us
free."
-dan