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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Car Audio / March 2007

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Door baffles - what works best?

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Mariachi - 17 Feb 2007 16:11 GMT
What are some of your opinions on door baffles?  What is the best
material that can isolate the front of the speaker from the back and
at the same time eliminate most of the rattling?  plywood, fiberglass,
dynamat, b-quiet, mdf, or any other material that works?
KU40 - 17 Feb 2007 17:02 GMT
I would (and do) choose sound deadening material (dynamat, raammat,
b-quiet, etc.).  Much easier to work with and easy to fasten and create
that tight seal.

Signature

KU40

CBFryman - 17 Feb 2007 17:15 GMT
MDF, sound deadening, and it's been suggested to me...non hardein
modleing clay. :

Silicon beads around the mounting rings (if your set comes with them
helps too. :

--
CBFryman
D.Kreft - 17 Feb 2007 23:40 GMT
> What are some of your opinions on door baffles?  What is the best
> material that can isolate the front of the speaker from the back and
> at the same time eliminate most of the rattling?  plywood, fiberglass,
> dynamat, b-quiet, mdf, or any other material that works?

You're reallytalking about two completely different things--baffles
and rattle killers. Just because something may be good at squelching
rattles doesn't mean you should go trying to mount a speaker to it.
Trying to fasten a 6.5" driver to a sheet of Dynamat, for example,
would be a sure-fire way to mess-up a perfectly good speaker when it
falls out of your door onto the asphalt.

For rattles, the idea is to add so much mass to the rattling surfaces
that it pushes the resonant frequency of the surface down below the
audible range and at the same time reduce its "Q" or propensity to
resonate. Many have used sheet damping like Dynamat and its ilk with
great success (and cost). Other alternatives are automotive
undercoating (essentially spray-on tar) which is *really* stinky,
polyfill (for simple interior panel rattles in areas where the fill
will not get wet), etc. Some even go so far as to try what I call
"Expanding Foam Nightmare" (EFN) (http://www.amazon.com/o/asin/
B0002YWRF0), which works *amazingly* well...when used with extreme
caution. EFN is incredibly messy, and if you over-apply it, you can do
serious damage to your car (I heard of an install shop in my hometown
that got a little carried away with it and wound up making the
exterior body panels on a brand-new Mustang bulge and ripple). I'd
stay away from it, unless you really know what you're doing or if you
just don't care about the potential for destroying your vehicle. :-)

For baffles...

In the most general terms, what you want is something very rigid, with
a very low resonant frequency and a low "Q" (propensity for
resonance), and of course you want to completely isolate the backwave
of the speaker from the front wave for all frequencies you expect that
speaker to play.

Plywood is generally not regarded as a terribly good substance from
which to create enclosures or baffles because it tends to be somewhat
resonant.

Fiberglass can be used to do some really wild things in terms of
cosmetics, but *technically* by itself it is not an ideal substance to
use for speaker enclosures/baffles, particularly in the midrange.
Whether or not the average person will notice, I'm not sure, but what
I've seen done by some *very* top-notch installers is to lay strips of
Dynamat (or similar) between the layers of Dynamat as an attempt to
"deaden" the panels. It seems to work--I've never heard a car from the
people I'm thinking of that didn't sound absolutely stellar.

For the average do-it-yourselfer, nothing really beats MDF--it's
relatively inexpesive, easy to work with, and has a very low "Q". The
only real drawback to using it (other than its sawdust, which ain't
good for your lungs) is its weight.

-dan
KU40 - 18 Feb 2007 02:34 GMT
I guess maybe I misunderstood your question.  I took it as covering u
the holes in your door skin, in which case I'd say sound deadener.  Bu
if you're actually mounting the speaker to it, such as if you would nee
some extra space for the motor so it doesn't hit the window or changin
size of the speaker, wood (namely MDF) is the best.  But you may nee
to seal the edges of that to both/either the speaker or the door ski
itself, in which case I'd use something like rope caulk

--
KU40
Mariachi - 18 Feb 2007 03:04 GMT
On Feb 17, 9:34 pm, KU40 <KU40.2m6...@no-mx.forum.carstereos.org>
wrote:
> I guess maybe I misunderstood your question.  I took it as covering up
> the holes in your door skin, in which case I'd say sound deadener.  But
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> --
> KU40

I already have the speaker mounted to the stock 6.5 mountings that
came with the car, so I don't need a mounting.  The mounting is made
out of some heavy duty plastic frame of some sort that protrudes out
from the metal frame of the door.  I'm thinking about buying either
dynamat or b-quiet to cover up all the holes in the door skin and foam
to cover up the little tiny cracks.  I'm thinking of buying 100 sq. ft
of b-quiet or dynamat so I have extra to put some for my rear 6x9's.
I think you can get a 100 sq. ft. of dynamat/b-quiet for less than 100
dollars on ebay.  I heard b-quiet is more cost effective but dynamat
is a little bit better.

>I'm not sure, but what
>I've seen done by some *very* top-notch installers is to lay strips of
>Dynamat (or similar) between the layers of Dynamat as an attempt to
>"deaden" the panels.

I'm not sure what you mean by laying strips of dynamat between the
layers of dynamat... do you mean they lay one layer of dynamat, then
after that they lay strips of dynamat on top of the first layer of
dynamat.  Then finally, they lay another whole layer on top of the
strips?
Mariachi - 18 Feb 2007 03:22 GMT
> On Feb 17, 9:34 pm, KU40 <KU40.2m6...@no-mx.forum.carstereos.org>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> dynamat.  Then finally, they lay another whole layer on top of the
> strips?

I think I'll get two of the door kits from ebay
check out the reviews:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-iSAb4NAakMA/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=15410435&tab=rev
iew#Tab

D.Kreft - 18 Feb 2007 05:12 GMT
> I'm thinking about buying either
> dynamat or b-quiet to cover up all the holes in the door skin and foam
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> dollars on ebay.  I heard b-quiet is more cost effective but dynamat
> is a little bit better.

I made a post a few days ago about using painted hardboard to make
hard plugs for the holes in the door (either that or fiberglass), and
then covering the entire door frame with Dynamat. Search for it at
groups.google.com.

> I'm not sure what you mean by laying strips of dynamat between the
> layers of dynamat... do you mean they lay one layer of dynamat, then
> after that they lay strips of dynamat on top of the first layer of
> dynamat.  Then finally, they lay another whole layer on top of the
> strips?

Sorry...typo. I meant "put strips of Dynamat in between the layers of
fiberglass"...kinda like a Dynamat sandwich. Only one layer of Dyna-
strips is all you really need.

-dan
Mariachi - 24 Mar 2007 19:08 GMT
I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
find.
Matt Ion - 24 Mar 2007 20:36 GMT
> I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
> sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
> find.

It is?

You need very little of it - a few scraps from a construction site or a lumber
yard is sufficient.  You don't want to pack it in tight, it needs to be "fluffed
out" and very loosely filling.  In short, you should be able to come up with it
for free.
Matt Ion - 25 Mar 2007 00:36 GMT
>> I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
>> sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> to be "fluffed out" and very loosely filling.  In short, you should be
> able to come up with it for free.

Come to think of it... you don't wanna be stuffing cotton in your doors... it'll
soak up any moisture that gets in there and turn into a soggy glob in the bottom
of the door.  Fiberglass won't.
Mariachi - 25 Mar 2007 05:24 GMT
> >> I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
> >> sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> soak up any moisture that gets in there and turn into a soggy glob in the bottom
> of the door.  Fiberglass won't.

I think the places where I put the cotton at are sealed off from water
leakage.  I noticed a huge difference in the midrange.  It is more
clean and louder at lower wattages.  Highs were better too, they
didn't sound as tinny as before, now they sound crisp.  Lows were
better but not by much, which could be because of low amplifier
power.  When I come in my car, I cannot hear anything outside... It's
completely silent... I never heard such a silence before...
GregS - 26 Mar 2007 13:30 GMT
>> >> I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
>> >> sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>power.  When I come in my car, I cannot hear anything outside... It's
>completely silent... I never heard such a silence before...

Cotton will work better than poly for what your doing, but foam is better.
Anything is bad that gets wet. Any material should be sealed from the wet.

greg
GregS - 26 Mar 2007 14:05 GMT
>>> >> I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
>>> >> sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>Cotton will work better than poly for what your doing, but foam is better.
>Anything is bad that gets wet. Any material should be sealed from the wet.

I should mention the way you seal, is to put plastic all around the outer
area. Any water will just slide past the material. i got to using a wonderfull
product, Corning Miraflex. It was a very fine long stran, no itch, white, type fiberglass with
a plastic outer wrap. It was a great product for closed boxes.
They stopped making it. I was recently was going to insulate in the basement,
but I was sad to learn of its departure. Foam is still best overall for speaker boxes, for
maximum acoustic damping, and for highest efficiency at isothermal conversion at lower
frequencies. See my test.
http://www.pitt.edu/~szekeres/atten.txt

greg
Mariachi - 26 Mar 2007 19:08 GMT
You think I can find foam at Lowes?  Junkyards?  And may I ask is
'foam' a general word, or is there a specific type of foam that I
should look for or does it matter at all.  Is it cheap?  I might buy
some thick fluffy cotton also as an extra layer, or should I stick
with just foam as an overall sound absorber.  My trunk is isolated
from water intake, and my door panels are isolated as long as I keep
the material on the inside of the window.  If I get fiberglass, I
might stick that where water comes down the inside of the car body
behind the speaker.  And what kind of adhesive would you use to make
the foam stick to the metal of the car?

> >>> >> I just found out that cotton is a good alternative to fiberglass for
> >>> >> sound absorption... it's probably a lot cheaper and it is easier to
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> greg
GregS - 26 Mar 2007 19:34 GMT
>You think I can find foam at Lowes?  Junkyards?  And may I ask is
>'foam' a general word, or is there a specific type of foam that I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>behind the speaker.  And what kind of adhesive would you use to make
>the foam stick to the metal of the car?

There is a type of foam which is recognized as being open cell and a
soft type foam. There are types that are not as good or completely unusable.
You have to know what it looks like. Foam is not cheap, but you can find it inside
many boxes as packing. It comes thick, thin, and with extra holes in it, and different
colors. Fiberglass should not be wetted either. Things will get moldy any
time water settles in. many times the foam can just be squezed in and the compression
will hold it in place. I also use stapes and silicone rtv inside wooden type boxes.
rtv will work on most surfaces. They sell foam in fabric stores, as well as cotton batting, and polyfill,
and also cloth suitable for grill cloths.

greg

>> In article <eu8e51$lin$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, szekeres@pitt.edu
>> >In article <1174796642.763832.295280@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>>
>> greg
 
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