Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / April 2005
Burning Rubber Gets Expensive
|
|
Thread rating:  |
MrPepper11 - 25 Apr 2005 16:00 GMT April 21, 2005 Burning Rubber Gets Expensive Pricey Tires Increasingly Come Standard on Cars, But Wear Out Easily By MICHELLE HIGGINS Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
What do a Hyundai Sonata and a Porsche have in common?
High-performance tires.
There's a surprising side effect to the horsepower race that's been taking place across the car industry. Responding to consumer demand for powerful, aggressive-looking vehicles, models ranging from station wagons to the Chrysler 300 are getting souped up to handle faster acceleration and higher speeds. To harness the extra power, the vehicles require tires that were once found only on sporty vehicles such as Corvettes and Porsches. The new tires are shorter and wider than most standard tires, and can be considerably more expensive. Cars with fashionably giant wheels also usually require tires like these.
High-performance tires provide a quicker, crisper steering response and a more tenacious grip on dry and wet surfaces than most common tires. But not only do they cost more, they also tend to wear out faster, and perform worse in snow. That means some car owners now have to face the hassle and expense of sticking snow tires back on their cars in the winter -- a chore that all but disappeared with the advent of all-season tires in recent decades.
The high-performance trend is catching many car buyers off-guard, particularly after years of growing accustomed to increasingly longer-lasting tires. Part of the problem is that many people don't pay much attention to the tires when buying a vehicle, so they don't realize their new car comes with high-performance tires. Manufacturers such as Michelin and Bridgestone have a term for it: the "accidental performance customer."
When the rubber eventually wears out and needs to be replaced, it can be a double-whammy for the owner, says Eugene Petersen, an engineer at Consumer Reports' tire and automotive test center in East Haddam, Conn. "The first shock is how long it lasts. Next is cost." He says he has seen a stream of postings on the discussion boards at consumerreports.org about short-lived, high-priced tires.
Roger Liebowitz, an advertising executive in Richmond, Va., encountered this when shopping for a used car last summer. The 2002 Infiniti i35 he was considering was in great condition except the tires needed to be replaced -- and it would cost nearly $800 to buy and install a complete set like the ones that came with the car. "It seemed kind of absurd to me for an $18,000 or $19,000 car to turn around and spend $200 a tire," says Mr. Liebowitz. "I'd expect that for a Corvette." In the end, he decided to buy a 2001 Infiniti i30, which came with tires that Mr. Liebowitz priced at about $100 each.
A spokesman for Infiniti says the tire designs and sizes for its vehicles are "optimized" for the specific car model. As a result, the tires may be a size "that's not common in the replacement market."
Performance tires, while still a relatively small portion of the overall tire market, are one of the fastest growing segments in the industry, according to the Rubber Manufacturers Association. Last year, about 17% of original-equipment tires shipped were what many consider high-performance tires, up from 12% in 1999. Sales in the performance-tire segment are up about 14% for 2004 from the previous year at the Sears Automotive Group, a business of Sears Holding Corp.
All tires come with a one-letter rating -- such as H or S -- that indicates the maximum speed at which they are designed to function without risking a blowout or other failure. Typical high-speed ratings are H (capable of a maximum speed of 130 miles per hour), V (149 mph) and Z (above 149 mph). Most tires are rated S or T, for speeds up to 112 mph and 118 mph, respectively.
Speed Ratings Increase
A number of car models switched in recent years to higher-performance tires. In 1996 the Honda Civic EX sedan came equipped with S-rated tires; in 2001 it came with H-rated tires.
Other vehicles, which already had high-performance tires, are boosting their speed ratings. For instance, the 2002 Nissan Maxima came equipped with H-rated tires, whereas the 2003 and 2004 models have V-rated tires. Similarly, the 2005 Hyundai Sonata LX came with H-speed rated tires; the 2006 model comes with V-rated tires.
Tires can also vary within a specific model of car. For instance, the base Chrysler 300 comes with T-rated tires, but the fancier 300C -- the model people get if they want extras like leather seats, heated mirrors and a better stereo -- comes with high-performance tires that are more expensive to replace. A Chrysler spokesman says the auto maker is confident that buyers understand what they are purchasing.
Typical all-season tires cost anywhere from roughly $30 to $100 apiece and wear out after 45,000 to 50,000 miles. High-performance tires can cost from $60 to $145 or so and also wear out more quickly -- typically after about 30,000 miles. Ultrahigh-performance tires such as Z-rated ones (or the even more rare W and Y tires, which show up on sports cars like Ferraris) cost even more, usually upward of $120 each, and wear out at around 15,000 miles.
Safety Issues
The fact that high-performance tires sometimes wear out more quickly can raise safety concerns. As a tread is worn away, in some circumstances a tire's grip on dry road surfaces may increase. However, worn tires have the opposite effect in inclement weather, where deep tread patterns are needed for wet braking and to gain traction in snow. Snow traction declined 15% for tires with treads worn down to half their normal depth in tests by Consumer Reports. Hydroplaning resistance was down by 8%, and wet braking was down by about 7%.
Also, while performance tires generally do well in dry and wet conditions (their wide footprint helps the rubber stick to the pavement) their design tends to have the opposite effect in winter conditions where narrower footprints and deep treads are preferred for maintaining traction in snow or icy conditions.
Drivers of cars with high-performance tires have options when looking for replacements if the tires wear out or if winter conditions require a switch. For one, all-season performance tires are available, though they generally won't perform as well in the snow as true winter tires.
Precise Handling
Another option: Buying a version of the tire that has a lower speed rating. However, there is disagreement in the industry about whether that's a good idea. Even though speed ratings of greater than 130 mph may seem unnecessary -- after all, who ever really drives anywhere near that speed? -- the fact is that tires with higher ratings also can provide more precise handling and crisper steering response even at lower speeds. according to Matt Edmonds of Tire Rack, a wheel and tire retailer in South Bend, Ind.
A performance-tire brochure from Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. says the company recommends replacement tires with an equivalent or greater speed rating than the original set. However, in the next sentence the brochure says, "if you never drive at speeds near the limits of your speed-rated tires, you may choose to replace them with tires having a lesser top-speed rating."
PERFORMANCE FOR LESS
Replacing high-performance tires can be expensive, but it's possible to purchase alternate brands to save money.
Vehicle Original Equipment Tire Cost Alternate Tire Brand Cost
2003 BMW X5 3.0i Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus $145 Continental 4X4 Contact $93 2003 Nissan Maxima GXE Goodyear Eagle RS-A $95 Continental ContiTouring Contact CH95 $72 2005 Chrysler 300C Continental ContiTouring Contact CH95 $100 Pirelli P6 Four Seasons $92 2003 Lexus IS 300 Bridgestone RE92 $138 Pirelli P6 Four Seasons $104
Note: Within a specific tire brand, prices can vary based on factors such as tire size and speed rating.
Source: Tirerack.com
Snow - 25 Apr 2005 18:15 GMT > High-performance tires provide a quicker, crisper steering response and > a more tenacious grip on dry and wet surfaces than most common tires. I'm not to sure their better on wet pavement, not all of them anyways. Besides if people can afford the car then they shouldn't bitch replacement parts (tires in this case), just like anyone who drives a 4x4 or a soccer mom suvee better not complain about gas prices. (although in this case the pot calls the kettle black way to often).
Snow...
L Sternn - 26 Apr 2005 03:45 GMT >I'm not to sure their better lol
Arif Khokar - 26 Apr 2005 00:36 GMT > April 21, 2005 > Burning Rubber Gets Expensive [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > me for an $18,000 or $19,000 car to turn around and spend $200 a tire," > says Mr. Liebowitz. People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The 225/45 ZR17s that I shop for come in prices ranging from $90 to $220 per tire. I don't see any reason why someone would have to spend more than $115 per tire for that particular size. The price may go up by $20 to $30 per tire when you get into the 18" range.
People also need to realize that unless you live too far south to see significant snowfall, you're only going to be using those high performance tires 6 to 8 months out of the year. That means that a set will last for 3 or possibly 4 seasons of use.
fbloogyudsr - 26 Apr 2005 00:57 GMT "Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> wrote
> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars > equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect > ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). "width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;->
Floyd
Scott en Aztlán - 26 Apr 2005 03:13 GMT >"Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> wrote >> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars >> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect >> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). > >"width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;-> I've seen some Ferraris with some pretty wide rear tires... ;)
 Signature Proud to be a wreckless driver! http://www.geocities.com/scottenaztlan/index.html
C.H. - 26 Apr 2005 03:16 GMT >>"Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> wrote >>> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I've seen some Ferraris with some pretty wide rear tires... ;) Formula 1 maybe ... years ago when they still had really wide rear tires :)
Chris
keith - 27 Apr 2005 02:43 GMT > "Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> wrote >> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars >> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect >> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). > > "width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;-> Yes, and it's the diameter of the *wheel*, not the tire.
 Signature Keith
Don Klipstein - 27 Apr 2005 05:20 GMT >> "Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> wrote >>> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Yes, and it's the diameter of the *wheel*, not the tire. Going on a side note by entering late into the thread with title having "burning rubber"...
I am thinking of a different factor - what type/grade of rubber the tires are made of!
Let me put it this way...
I have done enough work delivering food (not pizza but may as well have been) by bicycle, at a place that has hired a fair amount of bicycle messengers and former bicycle messengers (including myself).
Tale of two delivery people both other than myself:
#1 referred me to this job, likes to drive motorcycles, and I have noted him to have engineering talent and a little bit as a little bit of a hobby design cars that perform like motorcycles.
#2 came onto the job without a car but really wanted to drive a car rather than a bike, and quit his bike when he could afford a car.
Both #1 and #2 when driving cars drove their cars as if they were bicycle messengers. I have been a car passenger for both.
#2 had a significant accident record, although bragged about high percentage of accidents not ruled his fault. #1 avoided an accident record.
When being a passenger in a car driven by #2 at 50 MPH on 35 MPH city streets, I got scared and afterwards rode my bike home 4-plus miles in cold rain rather than accepting a ride from him. When being a passenger in a car driven by #1, I mostly burst out laughing at how he got away with driving 60 on 35 MPH city streets.
Driver #1 did also do a stint delivering pizzas for a different shop, but quit due to car expenses from such work, although continued to drive like a bicycle messenger while preferring to avoid such high exposure to high car wear from driving like a bicycle messenger in areas where he had to apply the brakes almost every block.
Now for tires:
No. 2 did not say anything about tire type/quality.
No. 1 had stuff to say about tire quality. Furthermore, he was at one time I noticed shopping for tires at a tire shop in "the delivery area". The tire shop owner recommended longer life tires that were made with a harder rubber compund. At the local tire shop Driver #1 voiced his opinion as to how he would dis-benefit from "longer life" tires made with harder rubber, and would achieve less tire wear from a "stickier" softer rubber that normally has a shorter life expectancy. I added to the owner of the local tire shop that Driver #1 tends to drive a car the way a bicycle messenger would drive a motorcycle.
------------------------------
Bottom line: What kind of tires you need will vary with specifics of your driving habits.
I do advise in favor of higher traction ratings in any close call.
Please consider ability to stop if the driver in front of you suddenly applies the brakes as hard as possible for whatever reason, and has a car with good antilock brakes. I believe that you should be able to avoid crashing into the vehicle in front of you unless you get totally sandwiched between the vehicle ahead of you and the vehicle behind you. Should you have choice between getting rear-ended and rear-ending the car in front of you, insurance companies tend to favor rear-endees over rear-enders, with (according to my impression) laws of many-most USA states giving guidance in that direction.
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
smile4camera@bellsouth.net - 27 Apr 2005 11:35 GMT > #1 referred me to this job, likes to drive motorcycles, and I have noted > him to have engineering talent and a little bit as a little bit of a hobby > design cars that perform like motorcycles. > > #2 came onto the job without a car but really wanted to drive a car
> rather than a bike, and quit his bike when he could afford a car. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > percentage of accidents not ruled his fault. #1 avoided an accident > record. As someone who also enjoys motorcycles, I'd not be surprised to hear that part of the reason that #1 has avoided accidents is because he's a motorcyclist.. in a dispute between a bike and a car, the biker will always lose, regardless of who's fault it was.
We lost our eye doc last year.. he was in his 50's, rode for more than half his life, raced both cars and bikes on tracks, and was a MSF instructor.. in a 35mph zone a UPS truck turned left in front of him. Both him and the bike went under the truck, he was pronounced dead at the scene.
Regards,
Jim
Jim Yanik - 26 Apr 2005 02:07 GMT >> April 21, 2005 >> Burning Rubber Gets Expensive [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> me for an $18,000 or $19,000 car to turn around and spend $200 a tire," >> says Mr. Liebowitz. Also,a NEW Infiniti I35 is NOT a $18-20K vehicle. And it may be that the previous owner installed custom wheels with a larger diameter and low-profile tires(more expensive).Going back to OEM wheel sizes may reduce the cost significantly.
> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars > equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Wheel Diameter,not tread width. [225/45 ZR17] means a 17" diameter,tread width of 225mm,and aspect ratio of 45.(low-profile category) [Z] is the speed rating,and [R] = radial.
>Aspect > ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > performance tires 6 to 8 months out of the year. That means that a set > will last for 3 or possibly 4 seasons of use. One can also shop for tires with a better wear number,better wet pavement capabilities,etc.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
Roger Blake - 26 Apr 2005 03:30 GMT >What do a Hyundai Sonata and a Porsche have in common? The Tiptronic transmission controller.
 Signature Roger Blake (Subtract 10 for email.)
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend - 27 Apr 2005 03:01 GMT > April 21, 2005 > Burning Rubber Gets Expensive [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > High-performance tires. One more reason to drive slow. I bought a couple tires a month back and the installed price for the whole job was $85. Last summer i bought a pair of the same tires and it only cost $65. Four tires installed = $150. And they work just fine.
keith - 28 Apr 2005 02:47 GMT >> April 21, 2005 >> Burning Rubber Gets Expensive [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > bought a pair of the same tires and it only cost $65. Four tires > installed = $150. And they work just fine. My wife's tires cost twice that, and mine 3x. Add in the winter tires for the wite's car, and it does get expesnive. Of course we don't by crap tires either.
 Signature Keith
TPutmann@AmericaOffline.com - 30 Apr 2005 05:06 GMT >>> April 21, 2005 >>> Burning Rubber Gets Expensive [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >the wite's car, and it does get expesnive. Of course we don't by crap >tires either. You really should not burn your rubbers. Your whore will end up pregnant and you'll have to pay child support for the rest of your life. Rubbers are meant to protect you. Handle them with care.
Magnulus - 27 Apr 2005 05:26 GMT You get what you pay for. There's also no requirement you keep the tires that your car came with.
If I lived up north I definitely would not depend on "all season" tires. Sounds like a good way to end up dead.
keith - 28 Apr 2005 02:51 GMT > You get what you pay for. There's also no requirement you keep the tires > that your car came with. > > If I lived up north I definitely would not depend on "all season" tires. > Sounds like a good way to end up dead. I ran all-seasons for years, with no big problems ("summers" before that, with some issues, but...;-). I don't do it anymore because tires these days are *cheap*. I paid >$100/tire twenty years ago and still pay more or less the same, for better tires. ,,,and that $100 is certainly different!
 Signature Keith
Magnulus - 28 Apr 2005 10:21 GMT I like the low rolling resistance tires (they use silica instead of just carbon black); that's why I'd personally probably take snow tires instead if there was a possibility of ice on the road. I've heard they are not the best on snow, though they are trying to improve that. They seem fine to me with rain (which we get alot of in Florida- no snow though), though some people say they are bad in rain- I never noticed.
My current tires are Michelin Energy Plus. Very pricey but they came with the vehicle. Next time I'll probably get the Bridgestone Potenza RE950's. I read hybrid cars used to come with these low-rolling resistance tires but people complained about them and they swapped out the tires for regular "all season" tires. The LRR tires don't have a long tire life from the tire guy I talked to (30,000 miles, which really is not bad), but they will make up for it in fuel savings (they increase fuel economy by 2-5 percent vs. regular tires).
Snow - 28 Apr 2005 13:25 GMT there are different winter tires.. there are mud and snow tires with big chunky lugs then there are ice and rain tires which look similar to all-seasons but have a lot more snipes for grip on the ice.
Snow...
> I like the low rolling resistance tires (they use silica instead of just > carbon black); that's why I'd personally probably take snow tires instead [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > for it in fuel savings (they increase fuel economy by 2-5 percent vs. > regular tires). Garth Almgren - 29 Apr 2005 00:26 GMT > there are different winter tires.. there are mud and snow tires with big > chunky lugs And are often stud-ready.
> then there are ice and rain tires AKA: studless snow tires.
> which look similar to > all-seasons but have a lot more snipes for grip on the ice. *Sipes*.
Snipes are the imaginary creatures that new Boy Scouts are sent to hunt for. :)
 Signature ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
|
|
|