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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / July 2005Paging Daniel Stern - re: amber turn signals
Just curious about something. I've been trying to find a set of replacment amber 7440 bulbs for the front and rear turn signals on my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX. I don't need them right now, but I keep several spare bulbs in a kit in my trunk. Can't seem to find the amber ones in the aftermarket. Thought about the dealer, but that'll be a last resort. I've tried the usual sources (AutoZone, WalMart, Kragen) and have only seen the clear 7440 from Sylvania (made in Japan). Is this bulb supposed to be that hard to find? Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. I don't particularly want them, but is there anything inherently wrong about them? > I've been trying to find a set of replacment amber 7440 bulbs for the > front and rear turn signals on my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX. I don't need > them right now, but I keep several spare bulbs in a kit in my trunk. > Can't seem to find the amber ones in the aftermarket. Tough bulb to find. Even tougher to find in decent quality. We keep 'em in stock, send me an email via my website. > Is this bulb supposed to be that hard to find? Yep, it's a carefully-orchestrated vast left-wing conspiracy ;-) > Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal > bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. The ones that Osram makes (Osram Diadem, Sylvania Silverstar SIGNAL bulbs) and the ones that Philips makes (SilverVision) are good. The numerous different knockoffs don't put out *nearly* enough light to be safe or legal. Nobody makes a decent one in your all-glass 7440 format. > is there anything inherently wrong about them? I actually like the Diadem type bulb better than the plain amber bulbs. The coating can never fade or burn off as it does with ordinary polymeric amber coatings (amber-glass bulbs are almost extinct due to their Cadmium content). Also, there may be a visual benefit to this type of bulb in bright-sun conditions, but it hasn't been looked at formally yet. The Diadem bulbs are made in red, too, but not for drop-in replacement of any other bulb type. They're permanently soldered into the bulb holder on e.g. the MINI Cooper factory clear-taillamp package that was briefly available a few years ago. Burn out a brake light bulb, go spend a few hundred bucks on a new bulbholder assembly! -DS <snip> >>Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal >>bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -DS Sorry to hijack the thread, but this prompts a question - are they ever going to be available in, say, an 1157 or P21/5W format so that safe, legal clear taillights might actually become a reality? Or are they now passe? Also are the amber ones available in a non-index base dual filament bulb e.g. 1176? (I'm guessing no, but it never hurts to ask.) nate (who thinks they actually look good on a silver car)  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >>Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal > >>bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. > > The ones that Osram makes (Osram Diadem, Sylvania Silverstar SIGNAL > > bulbs) and the ones that Philips makes (SilverVision) are good. The [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > benefit to this type of bulb in bright-sun conditions, but it hasn't > > been looked at formally yet. > are they ever going to be available in, say, an 1157 or P21/5W format They already are (Sylvania Silverstar = Osram Diadem available in 1157, 2057, 3157 and 3457) > Also are the amber ones available in a non-index base dual filament bulb > e.g. 1176? (I'm guessing no, but it never hurts to ask.) Nope >>>>Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal >>>>bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > They already are (Sylvania Silverstar = Osram Diadem available in 1157, > 2057, 3157 and 3457) Where do you get them? All I have seen are the amber ones. >>Also are the amber ones available in a non-index base dual filament bulb >>e.g. 1176? (I'm guessing no, but it never hurts to ask.) > > Nope oh well... newest automotive application for that bulb type that I've seen is 1955 (actually a 6V bulb) but guess what I have... Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn signals and headlights, but I'm also not prepared to modify the very rare and expensive parking light housings with a different socket... nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > > They already are (Sylvania Silverstar = Osram Diadem available in 1157, > > 2057, 3157 and 3457) > > Where do you get them? All I have seen are the amber ones. http://www.costore.com/performanceshop/productthumbnails.asp Click 'n' buy. > Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an > amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn > signals and headlights, but I'm also not prepared to modify the very > rare and expensive parking light housings with a different socket... There are a few different clean ways of doing this. The cheapest and easiest? File off one of the index pins from a BAY15d-base bulb! If the socket's not completely shot, the one pin should hold it in place OK. If not, you can shim the bulb with a wrapped strip of HD aluminum foil. If that's a no-go, or if you want to be able to use a higher-output bulb than an 1157, e-mail me a picture of the assembly you're working with (pref. disassembled) and I'll send you some solutions. >>>They already are (Sylvania Silverstar = Osram Diadem available in 1157, >>>2057, 3157 and 3457) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Click 'n' buy. I meant the red ones you alluded to - just curious, really. >>Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an >>amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > than an 1157, e-mail me a picture of the assembly you're working with > (pref. disassembled) and I'll send you some solutions. I can try that... once I get the passenger side back from the chrome shop. The metal shell of the socket is crimped to this big chromed potmetal assembly; I don't see any modifications being practical or honestly possible without a high potential for damaging something expensive. Right now I have something kludged together on the pass. side as a placeholder that I'm not real happy with, but it lets me drive the car until I get the good one back. Worst case, the correct white bulbs are available in a 12V version (car has been converted) nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >>Where do you get them? All I have seen are the amber ones. > I meant the red ones you alluded to - just curious, really. They're not available in the aftermarket. :-( > Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an > amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn > signals and headlights, but I'm also not prepared to modify the very > rare and expensive parking light housings with a different socket... I'm not trying it myself, but I've heard of people taking clear bulbs and marking them with a clear orange sharpie. I wouldn't think it's unsafe, but it probably wouldn't look that good. Don't know what the heat would do - it just might start flaking off in the assembly or become discolored. > I'm not trying it myself, but I've heard of people taking clear bulbs > and marking them with a clear orange sharpie. *laugh* People do all kinds of stupid, halfassed sh.t. This qualifies as that. > > I'm not trying it myself, but I've heard of people taking clear bulbs > > and marking them with a clear orange sharpie. > > *laugh* > > People do all kinds of stupid, halfassed sh.t. This qualifies as that. Well - I've done halfassed sh.t in a pinch. Once someone backed into my dad's car in a supermarket parking lot when I borrowed it. I exchanged insurance info and assessed the damage (slight sheetmetal damage and a busted taillight assembly). Then I walked into the store and got some translucent red tape to patch it up. It looked ugly, but I figure I didn't want to risk getting a ticket. Oh - I was looking around for alternatives and saw that the PIAA "Mirror Orange" bulb is available in 7440. Don't know if they're worth $40/pair, but I can't imagine that it's quite as bad as their headlights. > Well - I've done halfassed sh.t in a pinch. In a pinch, sure. I got my '65 Valiant started and driveable home when the distributor condenser failed by wiring a Tecumseh lawnmower engine condenser across the coil negative and ground...but when I got home, I fixed it right! > Oh - I was looking around for alternatives and saw that the PIAA "Mirror > Orange" bulb is available in 7440. Don't know if they're worth > $40/pair, but I can't imagine that it's quite as bad as their > headlights. Every time I've figured that such-and-such a PIAA product can't be as bad as their headlights... ...I've been wrong. Also, if you pay $40 for a pair of turn signal bulbs, I'll come over there and kick your a.s myself. I can do it, too; I've got DSL. > > Well - I've done halfassed sh.t in a pinch. > > In a pinch, sure. I got my '65 Valiant started and driveable home > when the distributor condenser failed by wiring a Tecumseh lawnmower > engine condenser across the coil negative and ground...but when I got > home, I fixed it right! I'm thinking of keeping some of that translucent red tape in my car if an "emergency" ever happens. > > Oh - I was looking around for alternatives and saw that the PIAA > > "Mirror Orange" bulb is available in 7440. Don't know if they're [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Also, if you pay $40 for a pair of turn signal bulbs, I'll come over > there and kick your a.s myself. I can do it, too; I've got DSL. Weren't you just recommending the Silverstar/Diadem or SilverVision turn signal bulbs that go for $20-25/pair? A local Subaru dealer has OEM (Koito?) amber 7440 for $14.98 each, and would have to special order them. I don't even think Sylvania has them in its catalog. I called up a local Kragen (CSK) and they can't even order them. This has got to be a conspiracy!!! I did find this: <http://www.candlepowerinc.com/pdfs/Wedge_Signal.pdf> I've seen a couple of generic ones (incl Eurolite) for $3-4 each online. I don't trust the quality though. > > Also, if you pay $40 for a pair of turn signal bulbs, I'll come over > > there and kick your a.s myself. I can do it, too; I've got DSL. > > Weren't you just recommending the Silverstar/Diadem or SilverVision turn > signal bulbs that go for $20-25/pair? Last time I checked, $20 was half of $40. > A local Subaru dealer has OEM (Koito?) amber 7440 for $14.98 each Whotta laugh. $4.98/ea here, in first/OEM quality. > I called up a local Kragen (CSK) and they can't even order them. This > has got to be a conspiracy!!! I did find this: > > <http://www.candlepowerinc.com/pdfs/Wedge_Signal.pdf> 1) That's what I meant when I said "available here". 2) Care to guess who wrote the copy for that sheet? > I've seen a couple of generic ones (incl Eurolite) for $3-4 each > online. I don't trust the quality though. "Eurolit-backwards-E" and "quality" don't belong in the same sentence together. >>Well - I've done halfassed sh.t in a pinch. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Also, if you pay $40 for a pair of turn signal bulbs, I'll come over there > and kick your a.s myself. I can do it, too; I've got DSL. Um, Daniel, that's something that I usually associate with pouty, attractive women, not guys wanting to kick a.s :) nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an > amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn > signals and headlights, but I'm also not prepared to modify the very > rare and expensive parking light housings with a different socket... Actually, white parking lights/turn signals work pretty good, at least as long as they're not too close to the headlights. I put clear turn signal/parking/DRL bulbs on my Camaro (as a temporary fix after the inspection) last spring, and I almost prefer having white DRLs, seem to be less confusing IME. There's also a product called "Color Chrome", or something like that. I thought about buying a can and color the lights on my BMW a little. I'm not sure if it works on bulbs, or only lenses, but it might be worth a try. YMMV. > nate Ulf > > Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an > > amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > inspection) last spring, and I almost prefer having white DRLs, seem to > be less confusing IME. Probably not legal. For some strange reason, the front turn signals bulbs in my car are clear behind an amber lens (in the headlight assembly). The rears are amber bulbs in a clear lens. The assemblies are made by different manufacturers. > There's also a product called "Color Chrome", or something like that. I > thought about buying a can and color the lights on my BMW a little. I'm > not sure if it works on bulbs, or only lenses, but it might be worth a > try. YMMV. I've seen some "color covers". I know - "halfassed sh.t". Might even burn? Well - I did get some clear (Sylvania packaged) 7440 and 7443 bulbs as spares. I can't quite figure out why they're not packaged (in pairs) in a way to keep the bulbs from banging into each other. I took them out and covered them in bubble wrap. The 7443s are different. The base is darkened like smoked glass. They say "12W21/5W" and "E11" (in a rounded box), with no country of origin. They package says they're made in Japan. I still have to contact DS about the amber bulbs and some H1 bulbs I need. >>>Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an >>>amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > assembly). The rears are amber bulbs in a clear lens. The assemblies > are made by different manufacturers. Actually, it is. LOL, overengineered..? BTW, saw a new Saab wagon with white taillight lenses today driving home in the rain. The light was weird, kind of blurry, like it was filtered somehow. The side markers were red LEDs though... >>There's also a product called "Color Chrome", or something like that. I >>thought about buying a can and color the lights on my BMW a little. I'm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I've seen some "color covers". I know - "halfassed sh.t". Might even > burn? Possibly. It will make the bulb dimmer in either case, although maybe not enough to make a difference. > Well - I did get some clear (Sylvania packaged) 7440 and 7443 bulbs as > spares. I can't quite figure out why they're not packaged (in pairs) in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > made in Japan. I still have to contact DS about the amber bulbs and > some H1 bulbs I need. Good luck. Ulf >There's also a product called "Color Chrome", or something like that. I >thought about buying a can and color the lights on my BMW a little. I'm >not sure if it works on bulbs, or only lenses, but it might be worth a >try. Works very well on lenses, probably works OK on low-heat bulbs. http://dastern.torque.net/lampics/selyel.html > >There's also a product called "Color Chrome", or something like that. I > >thought about buying a can and color the lights on my BMW a little. I'm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Works very well on lenses, probably works OK on low-heat bulbs. > http://dastern.torque.net/lampics/selyel.html Would an 1157 or similar qualify do you think? I used to have a friend who was a POR-15 dealer, I can see if he has a little I can borrow to experiment with. I *don't* want to color the lenses, those are also rare and expensive (and plastic to boot.) nate > > Works very well on lenses, probably works OK on low-heat bulbs. > > http://dastern.torque.net/lampics/selyel.html > > Would an 1157 or similar qualify do you think? Can't say for sure. > who was a POR-15 dealer, I can see if he has a little I can borrow to > experiment with. Half-and-half "14K Gold" and "Afterburner Orange" ought to produce a half-decent amber. > I *don't* want to color the lenses, those are also rare and expensive > (and plastic to boot.) Still ain't seen e-mail from you...if one comes in, I'll respond with other suggestions that don't involve painting anything. > > > Works very well on lenses, probably works OK on low-heat bulbs. > > > http://dastern.torque.net/lampics/selyel.html [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Still ain't seen e-mail from you...if one comes in, I'll respond with > other suggestions that don't involve painting anything. Honestly, I haven't been home in several days so I haven't had access to my pictures. The girlie lives a lot closer to my new office than I do; I've been known to impose on her when I have an early AM meeting. nate > > > > Works very well on lenses, probably works OK on low-heat bulbs. > > > > http://dastern.torque.net/lampics/selyel.html [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > nate Wooden ya know it, my personal computer cr4sh0red over the weekend... might have to wait a while until I can a) procure a replacement and b) retrieve all the files off my hard drive... I used to have pics of the parking light housings on my web site but had to take them down due to space limitations... nate >>There's also a product called "Color Chrome", or something like that. I >>thought about buying a can and color the lights on my BMW a little. I'm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Works very well on lenses, probably works OK on low-heat bulbs. > http://dastern.torque.net/lampics/selyel.html Nice, that's exactly what I was planning to do! Ulf > >>>Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an > >>>amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Actually, it is. LOL, overengineered..? FMVSS section 108: <http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr _2004/octqtr/49cfr571.108.htm> "TABLE IV-LOCATION OF REQUIRED EQUIPMENT [All Passenger Cars and Motorcycles, and Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Trailers, and Buses of Less than 80 (2032) Inches (MM) Overall Width] **Turn signal lamps - Passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, trailers, and buses: At or near the front-1 amber on each side of the vertical centerline, at the same height, and as far apart as practicable. On the rear-1 red or amber on each side of the vertical centerline, at the same height, and as far apart as practicable." Table III says the following, but says nothing about location per se: "Turn signal lamps 2 red or amber; 2 amber" My reading of European regulations is that currently, rear turn signals must be amber. > BTW, saw a new Saab wagon with white taillight lenses today driving home > in the rain. The light was weird, kind of blurry, like it was filtered > somehow. The side markers were red LEDs though... Saw a Saab 9-2X - nicknamed the "Saabaru". Had a combination of white openings through a mostly red lens. Didn't see it on though. > FMVSS section 108: > **Turn signal lamps - Passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, > trucks, trailers, and buses: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "Turn signal lamps 2 red or amber; 2 amber" That Table III is, like much of FMVSS108, tough to read. "2 red or amber" applies to the rear, "2 amber" applies to the front. > My reading of European regulations is that currently, rear turn signals > must be amber. All regulations worldwide except North American ones require amber turn signals at all four corners. Have for decades. ECE R48, ADR, JIS, etc. > Saw a Saab 9-2X - nicknamed the "Saabaru". Had a combination of white > openings through a mostly red lens. Didn't see it on though. Amber. >>>>>Is there any legitimate method for turning a clear glass bulb into an >>>>>amber one? I'm not nuts about the lack of contrast between the turn [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > My reading of European regulations is that currently, rear turn signals > must be amber. Okay, but I can legally have white or amber front, and red or amber rear, turn signals. >>BTW, saw a new Saab wagon with white taillight lenses today driving home >>in the rain. The light was weird, kind of blurry, like it was filtered >>somehow. The side markers were red LEDs though... > > Saw a Saab 9-2X - nicknamed the "Saabaru". Had a combination of white > openings through a mostly red lens. Didn't see it on though. It was the 9-3 wagon I saw. http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/saab/93/100352828/photos.html# Ulf > > FMVSS section 108: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > On the rear-1 red or amber on each side of the vertical centerline, > > at the same height, and as far apart as practicable." > Okay, but I can legally have white or amber front, and red or amber > rear, turn signals. No - front turn signals **must** be amber per FMVSS 108. Rears can be amber or red. It should be read this way: Turn signal lamps - Passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, trailers, and buses: At or near the front-1 amber on each side of the vertical centerline, at the same height, and as far apart as practicable. >>>FMVSS section 108: >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > At or near the front-1 amber on each side of the vertical centerline, > at the same height, and as far apart as practicable. You're missing the point. Read Daniel's post again, he explained it to you. Ulf > > No - front turn signals **must** be amber per FMVSS 108. Rears can be > > amber or red. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You're missing the point. Read Daniel's post again, he explained it > to you. I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal color anywhere. Here's his post: DS> That Table III is, like much of FMVSS108, tough to read. "2 red DS> or amber" applies to the rear, "2 amber" applies to the front. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the front. DS> All regulations worldwide except North American ones require amber DS> turn signals at all four corners. Have for decades. ECE R48, ADR, DS> JIS, etc. Ergo - all four turn signals must be amber outside of North America. In the US, there are two options for passenger car turn signals. 1) Two amber in the front and two amber in the rear. 2) Two amber in the front and two red in the rear. > > > No - front turn signals **must** be amber per FMVSS 108. Rears can be > > > amber or red. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > 1) Two amber in the front and two amber in the rear. > 2) Two amber in the front and two red in the rear. The wrinkle is that the front *parking lights* which are almost always combined with the turn signals, may be white or amber. Other than very recent cars, I can only think of one example of white parking lights being used (VW Corrado) Also before 1963, in the US the front turn signals were white as well, although the number of pre-1963 cars still on the road is small at this point (I'm doing my part though <G>) nate > > I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal > > color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the > > front. > > In the US, there are two options for passenger car turn signals. > > 1) Two amber in the front and two amber in the rear. > > 2) Two amber in the front and two red in the rear. > The wrinkle is that the front *parking lights* which are almost always > combined with the turn signals, may be white or amber. That is not the wrinkle at all. That has, in fact, nothing to do with the color of front turn signals. Ulf is right(!) on this one. I did explain it in a previous post. > Other than very > recent cars, I can only think of one example of white parking lights > being used (VW Corrado) Audi 200 Volvo 122 Volvo 140 Toyota Camry through '95, and numerous other Toyotas Several Nissans Several different Hondas and Acuras Subaru Impreza through '01 ... >>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal >>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the >>>front. You're wrong. I know my local lighting regulations, and having white front turn signals on my Camaro is legal. Besides, from a safety standpoint, which is best; having amber DRLs or white turn signals? >>>In the US, there are two options for passenger car turn signals. >>>1) Two amber in the front and two amber in the rear. >>>2) Two amber in the front and two red in the rear. Sure, when the car was sold new. >>The wrinkle is that the front *parking lights* which are almost always >>combined with the turn signals, may be white or amber. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ulf is right(!) on this one. I did explain it in a previous post. I've been right the whole time. The thing is that you don't have the slightest clue what my local regulations say. All you do is cite the Federal and ECE regs. >>Other than very >>recent cars, I can only think of one example of white parking lights [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Subaru Impreza through '01 > ... Doesn't almost a majority of the European cars have white parking lights now? Ulf Ulf, you've misquoted me. Proper attribution, please. > >>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal > >>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Ulf > Ulf, you've misquoted me. Proper attribution, please. Look who's talking. Daniel, I only replied to your post, didn't edit anything in it. If you feel you're misquoted it's your fault. Then again, your reply is only to divert from the original subject since you obviously realized that it's impossible to prove me wrong... Ulf > Look who's talking. Daniel, I only replied to your post, didn't edit > anything in it. If you feel you're misquoted it's your fault. Show us the post where Daniel typed the sentence you attributed to him. You've been posting to usenet long enough to know how to quote and attribute properly. The fact that you fail to do so is noone's fault but your own. >> Look who's talking. Daniel, I only replied to your post, didn't edit >> anything in it. If you feel you're misquoted it's your fault. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > attribute properly. The fact that you fail to do so is noone's fault > but your own. I am well aware I replied to two different people in my previous post, however so is everyone else following this thread. Daniel's the one who deleted y_p_w's attribute, so he would definitely know this. Ulf > >>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal > >>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > front turn signals on my Camaro is legal. Besides, from a safety > standpoint, which is best; having amber DRLs or white turn signals? While my state (California) doesn't seem to have any prohibition against white turn signal lamps, I've never seen one. I would suppose it would all depend on what the particular state law says, and whether or not there are inspections and/or the local law enforcement is willing to pull over cars for failure to meet state standards. >>>>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal >>>>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > law enforcement is willing to pull over cars for failure to meet > state standards. We were debating whether or not they were legal, not how lax the enforcement is. Ulf > >>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal > >>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > front turn signals on my Camaro is legal. Besides, from a safety > standpoint, which is best; having amber DRLs or white turn signals? Best would be to not have DRL's sharing a bulb with the turn signals at all, but you knew that already. Personally I'd say use the amber bulbs just because it's been so long since white turn signals were common that people will take longer to recognize them as such. nate >>>>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal >>>>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Best would be to not have DRL's sharing a bulb with the turn signals at > all, but you knew that already. Yup. Thanks Canada... > Personally I'd say use the amber bulbs just because it's been so long > since white turn signals were common that people will take longer to > recognize them as such. Yes, but when people see a flashing white light they realize it's a turn signal. One more advantage with white DRLs is that if one bulb breaks it doesn't look like you're driving around with you turn signal on 24/7. > nate Ulf > >>>>>I don't think I'm missing the point. White is not a legal turn signal > >>>>>color anywhere. Ergo - must have two amber turn signal lights in the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > signal. One more advantage with white DRLs is that if one bulb breaks it > doesn't look like you're driving around with you turn signal on 24/7. Actually - when I see a flashing white light, I usually realize it's a busted lens and a possible fixit ticket. YPW, fighting with Ulf is a lot like mud wrestling with a pig. > > > FMVSS section 108: > > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > At or near the front-1 amber on each side of the vertical centerline, > at the same height, and as far apart as practicable. > YPW, fighting with Ulf is a lot like mud wrestling with a pig. I think I figured this out. You did say there are some 60's or older cars with white turn signals, but the standards in place since the 60's call for amber or red in the rear. I don't recall any new car sold in the US in my lifetime with white turn signals. > I think I figured this out. You did say there are some 60's or older > cars with white turn signals, but the standards in place since the 60's > call for amber or red in the rear. I don't recall any new car sold in > the US in my lifetime with white turn signals. ...keep readin'... > > Actually, white parking lights/turn signals work pretty good > Probably not legal. White parking lamps are legal. White DRLs are legal. White turn signals Federally aren't. Some states' vehicle codes are decades out of date and haven't been changed from "white or amber" to "amber" on the front turn signals to reflect the Federal requirement for amber enacted in the mid '60s. > For some strange reason, the front turn signals bulbs in my car are > clear behind an amber lens (in the headlight assembly). Makes it harder for ricer types to substitute blue. > I've seen some "color covers". I know - "halfassed sh.t". Might even > burn? Yep, and they don't let through enough light. > Well - I did get some clear (Sylvania packaged) 7440 and 7443 bulbs as > spares. I can't quite figure out why they're not packaged (in pairs) in > a way to keep the bulbs from banging into each other. We've run into that a lot with Osram/Sylvania stuff in the last few years. > I still have to contact DS about the amber bulbs and some H1 bulbs I > need. Operators are standing by! > > For some strange reason, the front turn signals bulbs in my car are > > clear behind an amber lens (in the headlight assembly). > > Makes it harder for ricer types to substitute blue. Make me wonder why not the same for the rear..... > > I've seen some "color covers". I know - "halfassed sh.t". Might > > even burn? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > We've run into that a lot with Osram/Sylvania stuff in the last few > years. The bulbs were slightly scratched. Should be OK I think. > > > For some strange reason, the front turn signals bulbs in my car are > > > clear behind an amber lens (in the headlight assembly). > > Makes it harder for ricer types to substitute blue. > Make me wonder why not the same for the rear..... Oh...I wasn't saying that's necessarily why they did it, just that is one of the effects of that type of construction. > > I've been trying to find a set of replacment amber 7440 bulbs for > > the front and rear turn signals on my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Tough bulb to find. Even tougher to find in decent quality. We keep > 'em in stock, send me an email via my website. Speaking of tough-to-find bulbs, I've been having a devil of a time finding a replacement for the Stanley 12V5W bulbs that came in the corner lights of my '92 Civic. Two clear ones are used, one for the signal and one for the marker light. Stanley will not sell to the aftermarket (I called them), and my local dealer does not stock them. They simply replace burnt-out ones with (I think) 194s that are nowhere near as bright. Do you keep these as well? And as an aside, why do they silver-over with age? Is this the filament depositing itself upon the glass? > Speaking of tough-to-find bulbs, I've been having a devil of a time > finding a replacement for the Stanley 12V5W bulbs that came in the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you keep these as well? Yep, in four different varieties. > And as an aside, why do they silver-over with age? Is this the filament > depositing itself upon the glass? Yep. Send me an e-mail via danielsternlighting.com and I'll get you helped out. > > Speaking of tough-to-find bulbs, I've been having a devil of a time > > finding a replacement for the Stanley 12V5W bulbs that came in the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Send me an e-mail via danielsternlighting.com and I'll get you helped > out. And so I have. Please check your email. There used to be a material for stage lighting that you dipped bulbs in to change color. fairly durable unless scratched. > There used to be a material for stage lighting that you dipped bulbs in > to change color. fairly durable unless scratched. Rosco Colorine. Its formula had to be changed dramatically (as it were) in the 1990s to comply with VOC regulations. The old stuff dried hard and was quite durable. The new stuff stays gummy/sticky and can only be used on bulbs of less than 15 watts otherwise it bubbles and smokes. It's also available now in only a fraction of the range of colors it used to come in, none of which is suitable for car bulbs. Unfortunately, this option no longer exists. > > There used to be a material for stage lighting that you dipped > > bulbs in to change color. fairly durable unless scratched. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > range of colors it used to come in, none of which is suitable for car > bulbs. Unfortunately, this option no longer exists. I've seen aerosol cans of "light bulb paint" on certain Web sites that cater to the rice-rocket crowd. It's very expensive. You use it to turn your clear bulbs blue or whatnot. Not that I would consider using it (much too old for that sort of thing), but is this stuff considered a bodge as well? > I've seen aerosol cans of "light bulb paint" on certain Web sites that > cater to the rice-rocket crowd. It's very expensive. You use it to turn > your clear bulbs blue or whatnot. ...and it fades to a nice brownish-clear after about 6 minutes' worth of bulb "on" time, hence the "half pink, half brownish-white" appearance of the clear taillamps with red-painted bulbs. >>>I've been trying to find a set of replacment amber 7440 bulbs for >>>the front and rear turn signals on my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX. I [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > And as an aside, why do they silver-over with age? Is this the filament > depositing itself upon the glass? If they are replaced by 194s, try a W5W I think? nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > > Speaking of tough-to-find bulbs, I've been having a devil of a time > > finding a replacement for the Stanley 12V5W bulbs that came in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They simply replace burnt-out ones with (I think) 194s that are > > nowhere near as bright. > If they are replaced by 194s, try a W5W I think? Nope. W5W is closer than 194, but not the correct bulb for the application. > > > Speaking of tough-to-find bulbs, I've been having a devil of a time > > > finding a replacement for the Stanley 12V5W bulbs that came in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Nope. W5W is closer than 194, but not the correct bulb for the > application. Not to be argumentative, but what's the difference? It's a 5W bulb in the same form factor as a 194... curious why there would be a need for a bulb almost the same, but different... But you reminded me of another question I wanted to ask. Do you have any experience with LED lights either in a 194-like wedge base or else as a replacement for a #55? Reason I ask is, a Porsche 944 uses a wedge base bulb for the dash lights, I have W3Ws in there now, and they're really freaking dim. I've been warned not to go any higher wattage. Am thinking LEDs might be a reasonable solution to the problem? Also thinking that red LEDs would be cool in an old Studebaker (uses #55 or 57 bulb) instead of the old paint-dipped 57Rs which are just as expensive as the LEDs. thanks, nate > > > If they are replaced by 194s, try a W5W I think? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the same form factor as a 194... curious why there would be a need for > a bulb almost the same, but different... There are lots and lots of variants on this theme. 168, W5W, W5W-10X, W5W-6K, W5W-4A, 3652, 2886X, 70715... All of these are about 5 watts. Some of them put out more light than others. Some of them last longer than others. Some have different filament shapes. Of this list: One's halogen Three are Xenon filled One is Krypton filled One is Argon filled Two are vacuum bulbs > But you reminded me of another question I wanted to ask. Do you have > any experience with LED lights either in a 194-like wedge base or else > as a replacement for a #55? Yes, both. > Reason I ask is, a Porsche 944 uses a wedge base bulb for the dash > lights, I have W3Ws in there now, and they're really freaking dim. > I've been warned not to go any higher wattage. Am thinking LEDs might > be a reasonable solution to the problem? Also thinking that red LEDs > would be cool in an old Studebaker (uses #55 or 57 bulb) instead of the > old paint-dipped 57Rs which are just as expensive as the LEDs. You can try it...whether it will work or not depends on the positioning of the bulb with respect to the instruments themselves. Sometimes these "LED bulbs" work OK in dash illumination situations. Sometimes they don't work at all. And they never work in exterior lighting/signalling. > > Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal > > bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > be safe or legal. Nobody makes a decent one in your all-glass 7440 > format. I found this: <http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christian.balac/Work/WY21WSV%20Website.jpg> I'm not sure if anyone imports them to the US. There are tons of importers for the European metal base SilverVision bulbs. This particular one (WY21W) only seems to be available in Japan. > > Also curious about your opinion of those chrome colored turn-signal > > bulbs that glow amber/red/etc. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > be safe or legal. Nobody makes a decent one in your all-glass 7440 > format. And these: <http://www.lighting.philips.co.jp/jp/-/Portal?xml=catalogue/automotive_family&fl dr_id=4630> <http://www.rakuten.co.jp/rca/649589/650161/650172> I can't read Japanese, but I think that's 2,000 yen (about $18 US) for a pair. > <http://www.rakuten.co.jp/rca/649589/650161/650172> > > I can't read Japanese, but I think that's 2,000 yen (about $18 US) for a > pair. Yeah, Philips sells some interesting stuff on the Japanese market that they do not sell anywhere else in the world. Selective-yellow HID bulbs (D2R, D2S) for instance. > > <http://www.rakuten.co.jp/rca/649589/650161/650172> > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that they do not sell anywhere else in the world. Selective-yellow > HID bulbs (D2R, D2S) for instance. I know you said there were no acceptable "chrome" 7440A or WY21W bulbs, but I was guessing because the vast majority are poorly executed examples from non-name brands(like "Pilot" or "Stealth"). Do you suppose these are equivalent in performance to Philips' SilverVision line sold in Europe? > > > <http://www.rakuten.co.jp/rca/649589/650161/650172> > Do you suppose these are equivalent in performance to Philips' > SilverVision line sold in Europe? Probably. |
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