Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / July 2005
Do you back into your driveway?
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Kevin Spencer - 13 Jul 2005 21:18 GMT I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and I have never had my own driveway before this move. I find myself always backing into the driveway now when I park, so when it's time for me to go anywhere, I can pull out forward, and I won't have to worry about backing into a small child or another vehicle.
I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I "was planning to go to a fire" .... in a friendly way. Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I unusual?
Kevin Spencer
Ivan - 13 Jul 2005 21:41 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kevin Spencer I always back in - that way the door to the house is on the driver's side :-)
Ivan
Kendall P. Bullen - 14 Jul 2005 16:20 GMT > I always back in - that way the door to the house is on the driver's > side :-) You've just pinpointed why I normally don't back in usually, although I never really thought about it other than it's more of a PITA to back in. My driveway's on the opposite side of the house (compared to yours in relation to your house).
But if I have my parents' mini-van on loan, I back in for easier loading. ;-)
Kendall
 Signature Kendall P. Bullen http://www.his.com/~kendall/ kendall@---^^^^^^^
Never e-mail me copies of Usenet postings, please. I do read the groups to which I post!
Banty - 13 Jul 2005 21:46 GMT >I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Kevin Spencer It's unusual. In fact, it's something I only did when I was part of an on-pager emergency crew, so what your neighbor said is what would occur to me.
So, let me ask you - ya pays now or ya pays later, right? Either way, there's a possibility of backing into something.. when backing in, or backing out! So why do you prefer to do the manuever backing in??
For one thing, you can wait in your driveway for the traffic to clear before backing out. If you back *in*, there's the change the guy behind you will have to wait, or you'll need to pull over to let him past, then do the back-in maneuver. For another thing, backing out into the street takes a little less care than lining up to back into most driveways, since driveways are narrower than streets.
Y'know what - get a circular driveway!
Cheers, Banty
DTJ - 14 Jul 2005 03:12 GMT >>I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >>driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It's unusual. In fact, it's something I only did when I was part of an on-pager >emergency crew, so what your neighbor said is what would occur to me. No it is not unusual at all. And what the f.ck does it matter why he does it, you can do it your way, he can do it his.
>So, let me ask you - ya pays now or ya pays later, right? Either way, there's a >possibility of backing into something.. when backing in, or backing out! So why >do you prefer to do the manuever backing in?? Gee, maybe because you can pull up and eyeball the driveway before backing, and thus have a far lower chance of running over something.
>For one thing, you can wait in your driveway for the traffic to clear before Could be days.
>backing out. If you back *in*, there's the change the guy behind you will have >to wait, or you'll need to pull over to let him past, then do the back-in f.ck him, let him learn to drive.
>maneuver. For another thing, backing out into the street takes a little less >care than lining up to back into most driveways, since driveways are narrower >than streets. Only for those who shouldn't be driving anyhow.
Banty - 14 Jul 2005 20:18 GMT >>>I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >>>driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Only for those who shouldn't be driving anyhow. Wow. Off your meds today??
Cheers, Banty
hubcap - 14 Jul 2005 21:01 GMT >>>Either way, there's a >>>possibility of backing into something.. when backing in, or backing out! I think it is easiest to make sure you don't run over the kitties by pulling straight in... you can more easily pay attention to whether or not they run in front of you.
Later, when leaving, you can look around for them, look to see if they're under the car, and be pretty sure they're nowhere around before you back out. If you fool around with the keys or something in the car, you should get back out and check to see where the kitties are to make sure it is still clear.
Sounds like a lot of trouble, but my kitties are unrunover as of yet.
-Mike
Banty - 15 Jul 2005 17:37 GMT >>>>Either way, there's a >>>>possibility of backing into something.. when backing in, or backing out! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >-Mike Me too. Kitties and kiddies both :)
It's a good point, though. When *leaving* my house, I have an easy opportunity to see if there is any kittie or kiddie activity around the driveway or sidewalk or street. Then I can 'afford' the lower visibility I would have while backing out.
On the other hand, when I *arrive*, I can only see what I can see from the vantage point of my driver's seat in the street. For that I'd rather have the visibility to drive fowards into the driveway.
Although - my current setup allows me to back towards my backyard to turn towards the street while leaving through my driveway, so I can drive forwards either coming or going. If I lived on a busy street, I'd put in a circular driveway if I at all could.
Banty
Jim Yanik - 16 Jul 2005 01:46 GMT >>>>>Either way, there's a >>>>>possibility of backing into something.. when backing in, or backing [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Banty You could put in a side pad (a 'T') to allow backing into that(90deg turn) and then drive forward to exit the driveway. It would also allow extra parking when needed.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
QB3 - 17 Jul 2005 00:22 GMT It's a guy thing. Most of the people I see backing in are men. Women almost never do it.
It's a safety thing for me. Be it a driveway or a parking space, I have a much clearer view of the spot as I drive up to it, and I can then safely back into the space, right after I have observed it.
When I am leaving, my observation of potential obstacles happens as I walk up to the vehicle and a few dozen seconds may pass before I actually drive out of the space. That's too much time, and animals and children have too great an opportunity to wander into the danger zone.
I live on a quiet street and don't normally have any vehicles behind me when I attempt to park. There are a lot of pedestrians in our neighborhood, though. The young ones are what I seek to avoid. The older ones usually know better than to walk behind a running vehicle when they can't see the driver's eyes in the mirror.
My pickup truck and SUV have less visibility to the rear than most sedans. That reality demands back-in parking. I've been doing it for years, and it works for me. Lots of guys in our neighborhood do it. Something else may work for you.
Banty - 20 Jul 2005 13:51 GMT >It's a guy thing. Most of the people I see backing in are men. Women >almost never do it. Heh. Women do it too. We parallel park purty good, too! :-D
>It's a safety thing for me. Be it a driveway or a parking space, I have a >much clearer view of the spot as I drive up to it, and I can then safely [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >out of the space. That's too much time, and animals and children have too >great an opportunity to wander into the danger zone. OK but explain to me if this is a guy thing - I'm talking about *walking* to check things, as I do in the morning before I pull out as there are small boys next door. (Come to think of it, this may be a big-garage-with-door-opener thing) - I need to traverse from my house to my truck anyway. I'm not stuck in a car seat. High, or low. Can peek around shrubs, too. More effective.
If I am to do that on arriving, I'd have to get out of my truck and walk around. Not nearly so efficient.
>I live on a quiet street and don't normally have any vehicles behind me when >I attempt to park. There are a lot of pedestrians in our neighborhood, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >works for me. Lots of guys in our neighborhood do it. Something else may >work for you. Yep.
Banty
Daniel J. Stern - 13 Jul 2005 22:01 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently moved into a > house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and I have never had my own > driveway before this move. I find myself always backing into the > driveway now when I park, so when it's time for me to go anywhere, I can > pull out forward, and I won't have to worry about backing into a small > child or another vehicle. Yours is a smarter and safer way to use a home driveway than the more common method of nosing in and backing out, and for exactly the reason you state.
Larry Bud - 14 Jul 2005 00:35 GMT > > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently moved into a > > house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and I have never had my own [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > common method of nosing in and backing out, and for exactly the reason you > state. Why doesn't he have to worry about backing into a child when parking the car?
Doug Miller - 14 Jul 2005 02:15 GMT >Why doesn't he have to worry about backing into a child when parking >the car? Perhaps neither he nor his neighbors have children...
 Signature Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Larry Bud - 16 Jul 2005 19:11 GMT > >Why doesn't he have to worry about backing into a child when parking > >the car? > > Perhaps neither he nor his neighbors have children... Then the original argument of worrying about backing into a child when pulling out doesn't apply either.
DTJ - 15 Jul 2005 01:41 GMT >> > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently moved into a >> > house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and I have never had my own [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Why doesn't he have to worry about backing into a child when parking >the car? Maybe because when you pull up, you can look out the window.
G Henslee - 16 Jul 2005 14:05 GMT >>I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently moved into a >>house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and I have never had my own [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > common method of nosing in and backing out, and for exactly the reason you > state. Many people would be surprised to know that some cities have ordinances prohibiting backing a car out of a driveway onto a major thoroughfare. People who live on busy main streets will quite often have circle drives or turn-around areas that they can pull into and back up to the house just enough to get facing forward to exit the driveway.
Don Phillipson - 13 Jul 2005 22:27 GMT > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? This is usual in England although no rule mandates it.
 Signature Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
Robert Briggs - 19 Jul 2005 18:54 GMT > > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > > unusual? > > This is usual in England although no rule mandates it. That said, the Highway Code certainly recommends it:
177: Do not reverse from a side road into a main road. When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can.
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/19.htm#177
In the thick end of seventeen years, I have driven forwards into my drive:
to use a gate to check headlight alignment;
to get my working battery close enough to my neighbour's flat one to use jump leads;
er ... I think that's about it.
KLS - 14 Jul 2005 00:01 GMT >I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I >"was planning to go to a fire" .... in a friendly way. >Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I >unusual? No, Kevin, you're special and sensible. SOMETIMES I'm organized enough to back into my driveway, but not usually.
HarleyVA@nospam.net - 14 Jul 2005 00:18 GMT >>I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >>driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >No, Kevin, you're special and sensible. SOMETIMES I'm organized >enough to back into my driveway, but not usually. the ones that crack me up are the ones that back into a parking slot at Costo and then can open their trunk to load all their crap in. LOL
HarleyVA@nospam.net - 14 Jul 2005 00:21 GMT >>>I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >>>driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the ones that crack me up are the ones that back into a parking slot >at Costo and then can open their trunk to load all their crap in. LOL yeesh...let's try this again...
the ones that crack me up are those that back into a parking slot at Costco and then can't open their trunk to load all their crap in. LOL
Eric Near - 18 Jul 2005 14:02 GMT > yeesh...let's try this again... > > the ones that crack me up are those that back into a parking slot > at Costco and then can't open their trunk to load all their crap in. > LOL Don't know about Costco, but it seems around here that Wal-Mart parking lots come with a requirement for idiotic driving and walking. I try to park far away and then walk. Good for exercise (same principle as walking to change the TV channel instead of using a remote)
Eric
The Etobian - 14 Jul 2005 02:08 GMT >>>I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >>>driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the ones that crack me up are the ones that back into a parking slot >at Costo and then can open their trunk to load all their crap in. LOL That's a lot easier than trying to back up when you're flanked by Excursions on either side.
Daniel J. Stern - 14 Jul 2005 03:56 GMT > >the ones that crack me up are the ones that back into a parking slot at > >Costo and then can open their trunk to load all their crap in. LOL
> That's a lot easier than trying to back up when you're flanked by > Excursions on either side. The ones who piss me off and crack me up at the same time are those who drive tiny cars *all the way into* parking spaces flanked on either side by much bigger cars. That's moronic; the smart way is to pull in only so far as to put the trailing end (whichever that be) of the small car more or less even with the outer extent of the parking space lines.
They piss me off 'cause they create phantom parking spaces (Oops, no, that one's taken).
They crack me up because I know there are people not paying careful attention who'll glance at the phantom parking space and swing on in. Krunch.
DS
Robert Briggs - 19 Jul 2005 19:01 GMT > The ones who piss me off and crack me up at the same time are those who > drive tiny cars *all the way into* parking spaces flanked on either side > by much bigger cars. That's moronic; the smart way is to pull in only so > far as to put the trailing end (whichever that be) of the small car more > or less even with the outer extent of the parking space lines. IMO, correct procedure in such circumstances is to "bury" your "trailing end" a few inches into the row: enough that the big boys take the risk of being hit by passing traffic, but not so much as to obscure your presence.
Jim Yanik - 20 Jul 2005 00:32 GMT >> The ones who piss me off and crack me up at the same time are those who >> drive tiny cars *all the way into* parking spaces flanked on either side [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > boys take the risk of being hit by passing traffic, but not so > much as to obscure your presence. How do you know those folks didn't park "fully in" BEFORE the larger vehicles parked next to them?
Besides,the way some people back out of their parking spaces and into other cars,I'd definitely use the larger vehicles as protection from them. If you're in as deep as you can,then they'll strike the other big vehicles first. B-)
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
Pooh Bear - 14 Jul 2005 00:44 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? Just unusually sensible. Chances are that you're likely to be in slightly more of a hurry when leaving, so it makes sense to have the car 'pointing the right way'.
Also you're likely to be slightly less alert first thing in the morning so it's a bit safer.
Graham
DTJ - 14 Jul 2005 03:10 GMT >I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I >"was planning to go to a fire" .... in a friendly way. >Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I >unusual? I don't, my wife does. It puts more room between the cars in the garage.
We both used to when we lived on a major street. It was easier because we could "block" traffic to allow us to back in, but you could never back out. Of course, you could turn your signal on for blocks, decreasing your speed more and more as you approached the drive way, and people would sit behind you in the right lane honking rather than move over one lane and go around you.
Depending on the situation, backing in can be much better.
Dennis M - 14 Jul 2005 03:16 GMT >in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I "was planning to go to >a fire" .... in a friendly way. You know how anal-retentive some people (and in many cases, city governments) can be about their neighborhoods. Conformity is essential -- the outside of each home should look exactly like the others.
A larger city close to me is now trying to pass a law preventing people from keeping their tarp-covered boats parked in their front yards, claiming it's too much of an eyesore. Usually, the only ones doing this are those who don't have the option of storing it behind their house or in a garage.
Ed Stasiak - 16 Jul 2005 05:41 GMT > Dennis M wrote > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > who don't have the option of storing it behind their > house or in a garage. That's been the law in my home town in metro Detroit for years, you have to store your boat or camper in the garage and if it don't fit, then it will have to go to a storage facility.
This is to prevent people from parking their gigantic yacht or humongous camper in their driveway or backyard 364 days a year, making the neighborhood look like a storage lot.
Of course if you're on good terms with your neighbors and your boat/camper isn't that big, you can get away with it.
The Real Bev - 16 Jul 2005 06:18 GMT > > Dennis M wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the garage and if it don't fit, then it will have to > go to a storage facility. Rotten place to live. A man's motorhome ought to be his castle.
> This is to prevent people from parking their gigantic > yacht or humongous camper in their driveway or backyard > 364 days a year, making the neighborhood look like a > storage lot. The city here thought it would be a good idea to pass such an ordinance. Then the community explained in no undertain terms that (a) there were no suitable storage facilities within 30 miles; (b) people who paid $100K for a motorhome were not going to roll over for such a silly rule, especially since most homes were not designed with storage for a 34-foot motorhome in mind; (c) most of the people with such vehicles were well-to-do, articulate and politically active; (d) There were a lot more large-vehicle owners than there were city councildroids; and (e) one of the councildroids himself owned such a vehicle.
> Of course if you're on good terms with your neighbors > and your boat/camper isn't that big, you can get away > with it. We should NOT have to depend on the kindness of our neighbors to not tattle when we violate some rule that should never have been made. Selective enforcement is improper in a free society.
 Signature Cheers, Bev +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Warning -- Driver carries less than $20 worth of ammunition
Ed Stasiak - 16 Jul 2005 17:33 GMT > The Real Bev wrote > > Ed Stasiak wrote [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Rotten place to live. Not at all, it keeps the city from looking like a storage lot.
> A man's motorhome ought to be his castle. But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax in my backyard.
It's the equivalent of putting a car up on cinder blocks like a hillbilly, it's an eye-sore.
> > This is to prevent people from parking their gigantic > > yacht or humongous camper in their driveway or backyard [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > terms that (a) there were no suitable storage facilities > within 30 miles; If you can tow that boat/camper 200+ miles when you're going on vacation, you can tow it 30 miles to the storage lot.
> (b) people who paid $100K for a motorhome were not going > to roll over for such a silly rule, especially since most > homes were not designed with storage for a 34-foot motorhome > in mind; And people who paid 2-3x that much for their home don't want to look out their window day after day and see your camper/boat parked behind your garage, (out of sight for you but right in my line of sight) wrapped in tarps with knee high grass growing around it and varmints raising babies underneath it.
> (c) most of the people with such vehicles were well-to-do, > articulate and politically active; If they can afford a camper/boat that is too large to fit in their garage, (or build a pole-barn to store it) they can afford to keep it at a storage lot during the off season.
My friends father-in-law has a 23' boat that when it isn't at the marina during the summer months, is stored at a lot a few miles away for $35 a month.
If he were to store it in his driveway, (can't get it in the back yard) not only would it look like hell but the trailer tongue would block the entire sidewalk.
> (d) There were a lot more large-vehicle owners than there > were city councildroids; But the city council exists to serve the entire community, (the majority of whom do not own huge boats/campers) not just a few camper/boat owners who are too cheep to store their toys in a storage lot during the off season.
> (e) one of the councildroids himself owned such a vehicle. See above.
> > Of course if you're on good terms with your neighbors > > and your boat/camper isn't that big, you can get away [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > neighbors to not tattle when we violate some rule that > should never have been made. The ordnance was passed because even if it's a brand-new boat or camper, it's an eye-sore when it's sitting there all year long and of course there are those who would fill their yard with broken-down cars, boats, campers, ect. simply because they are junk collectors.
But why should I have my property value go down along with my quality of life, because you want to store a behemoth motorhome or the Love Boat in your backyard or driveway?
> Selective enforcement is improper in a free society. The ordnance in my town (and I assume this is pretty much the case throughout Michigan) is that one can park their toy in the driveway for 4 days at a time.
But during the summer when people are regularly boating or camping, most people just leave their toys in the driveway all season long so they can easily move in and out and nobody complains about it.
It's only during the off-season that one can't store a boat or camper in the driveway or backyard and in the northern 'burbs of Detroit, where many people have 1-2+ acre lots, this rule is almost never enforced.
And even here in a heavily urbanized city, I see many people getting away with storing pop-up campers or smaller boats all year long in their backyards (usually on a cement pad tucked away behind the garage).
I stored my friends pop-up camper on my driveway (in the back yard) all last winter and none of my neighbors had a problem with it, but then I don't get in feuds with them.
Percival P. Cassidy - 16 Jul 2005 18:46 GMT On 07/16/05 12:33 pm Ed Stasiak tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
> My friends father-in-law has a 23' boat that when it isn't > at the marina during the summer months, is stored at a lot [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the back yard) not only would it look like hell but the > trailer tongue would block the entire sidewalk. That would undoubtedly be a violation. But supposing it doesn't block the sidewalk?
>>Selective enforcement is improper in a free society.
> The ordnance in my town (and I assume this is pretty much > the case throughout Michigan) is that one can park their > toy in the driveway for 4 days at a time. I don't think that can be a general rule in MI, because the township code here (Holland Twp.) requires provision of only two parking *spaces* for each residence. I didn't see anything to suggest that those spaces must be enclosed. I deduce that one may park two (or even more) vehicles in one's driveway. Our neighbors across the street have regularly had four or more vehicles parked in their driveway, their triple garage being full of other stuff. Many other neighbors have boats parked in their driveways or alongside their houses, some all year round. No problem.
> But during the summer when people are regularly boating > or camping, most people just leave their toys in the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > had a problem with it, but then I don't get in feuds > with them. Perce
Ed Stasiak - 16 Jul 2005 23:21 GMT > Percival P. Cassidy wrote > > Ed Stasiak wrote [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That would undoubtedly be a violation. But supposing > it doesn't block the sidewalk? Legally you can only keep a boat, camper, broken down car, ect in your driveway or backyard for 4 days but the SOP seems to be to keep the boat/camper at home all summer, even if it's only used one or twice.
Now if your neighbors don't complain, you can keep it there all year round. Of course all it takes is one anonymous phone call to city hall, and you'll be towing your boat to the storage lot thru 12" of snow in the middle of February....
> > The ordnance in my town (and I assume this is pretty much > > the case throughout Michigan) is that one can park their > > toy in the driveway for 4 days at a time. > > I don't think that can be a general rule in MI, I've always understood that it was a state ordnance but it seems that cities can have their own rules;
Novi, MI; "Except where otherwise permitted in this Ordinance, the off- street parking of a mobile home for periods exceeding twenty- four (24) hours on lands not approved for mobile homes or mobile home parks, shall be expressly prohibited, except that the Building Inspector [Official] may extend temporary permits allowing the parking of a mobile home in a rear yard on private property, not to exceed a period of two (2) weeks."
Marysville, MI; "If the recreational equipment is parked or stored outside of a garage, it shall be parked or stored in the side or rear yard as defined in the Marysville Zoning Ordinance. At no time shall the recreational equipment protrude beyond the front line of the swelling. Recreational equipment and/or recreational vehicles may be parked anywhere on the premises for loading or unloading purposes for a period of not more than forty-eight (48) hours."
Northville, MI; "Not more than one of each of the above enumerated apparatus, with a maximum or four (4) of the same may be parked or stored on a lot of record which is zoned and used for residential purposes; no closer than three (3) feet to any side or rear lot line; and ownership of said apparatus must be in the name of a member of the immediate family of the lot's owner, tenant or lessee. Campers, travel trailers, motorized homes, mobile homes and general utility trailers may be parked anywhere on the premises for loading or unloading purposes for a period not to exceed seventy-two (72) hours except the time limit shall not apply to rear yard area."
> Many other neighbors have boats parked in their driveways or > alongside their houses, some all year round. No problem. Like I said, I see people doing that here also even thou it's illegal but as long as nobody calls city hall, (like the owner of the local storage facility....) you're alright.
KLS - 17 Jul 2005 12:36 GMT >I've always understood that it was a state ordnance Perhaps you intended to use that last word, so if you did, your sentence is funny. If, however, you intended to refer to a type of law, the spelling is "ordinance."
Robert Briggs - 19 Jul 2005 19:16 GMT > > I've always understood that it was a state ordnance > > Perhaps you intended to use that last word, so if you did, > your sentence is funny. When I spotted the error in his previous post, I thought of: "Praise the Lord! And pass the ammunition!"
> If, however, you intended to refer to a type of law, the > spelling is "ordinance." It's quite a common error, although (perhaps because one of my regular haunts is rec.aviation.military) munitions seem to be written up as edicts more than the other way round.
Matthew Russotto - 17 Jul 2005 16:12 GMT >But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle >sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax >in my backyard. You, in your backyard, are an eyesore. Maybe we can ban you?
>And people who paid 2-3x that much for their home don't >want to look out their window day after day and see your >camper/boat parked behind your garage, (out of sight for >you but right in my line of sight) wrapped in tarps with >knee high grass growing around it and varmints raising >babies underneath it. And what makes them entitled to control everything within their line of sight?
 Signature There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one.
Ed Stasiak - 17 Jul 2005 17:03 GMT > Matthew Russotto wrote > > Ed Stasiak wrote [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You, in your backyard, are an eyesore. What, you don't like my neon green fish-net Speedos?....
Skip Elliott Bowman - 17 Jul 2005 18:11 GMT >>But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle >>sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax >>in my backyard. > > You, in your backyard, are an eyesore. Maybe we can ban you? People have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their backyards, no matter what they look like. That's a lot different than using the right-of-way to store a land whale; you can't help but see that.
>>And people who paid 2-3x that much for their home don't >>want to look out their window day after day and see your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > And what makes them entitled to control everything within their line > of sight? Maybe not everything, but there are some things that can be controlled. If it's off the right-of-way and is creating a hazard by restricting view of the street from others, or drawing vermin, I'd have a problem too.
Matthew Russotto - 18 Jul 2005 18:49 GMT >>>But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle >>>sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >matter what they look like. That's a lot different than using the >right-of-way to store a land whale; you can't help but see that. Right-of-way? I'm referring to restrictions on storing it on private property, not on the street. Particularly restrictions based on aesthetic concerns.
DTJ - 20 Jul 2005 04:19 GMT >>>>But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle >>>>sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >property, not on the street. Particularly restrictions based on >aesthetic concerns. Sorry Matt, but I disagree with you here. Although it depends on how far they go.
For example, in an upscale neighborhood, parking a semi nearby is illegal. Why should lower income people have to put up with this sh.t?
As to boats and RVs, I have mixed feelings. I have a neighbor who violates the local laws all the time. He just moves his RV from one street to the next (lives on a corner) and gets away with it. He is a builder, and so the village won't enforce the law. Why should I have to risk getting hit every time I drive by his house because he has a 40 foot camper parked at the stop sign on a curve?
What is the right answer, I don't know. I do know that boats belong on water, not in a driveway in front of a house.
Matthew Russotto - 20 Jul 2005 18:17 GMT >>>>>But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle >>>>>sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >illegal. Why should lower income people have to put up with this >sh.t? Far as I'm concerned, if you can fit a semi-truck on your property, it should be perfectly legal to have it there whether you're rich or poor.
estasiak@att.net - 21 Jul 2005 04:58 GMT > Matthew Russotto wrote > > DTJ wrote [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > property, it should be perfectly legal to have it there > whether you're rich or poor. I can also fit a herd of pigs on my property. If you were my neighbor you'd be cool with that, right?....
Matthew Russotto - 21 Jul 2005 14:43 GMT >> Matthew Russotto wrote >> > DTJ wrote [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >If you were my neighbor you'd be cool with >that, right?.... Long as you keep the volatile organic compounds they release on your property, sure.
Ed Stasiak - 22 Jul 2005 00:48 GMT > Matthew Russotto wrote > > Ed Stasiak wrote [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Long as you keep the volatile organic compounds > they release on your property, sure. And what makes think you're entitled to control everything within your "line of smell"? Your aesthetic concerns shouldn't preclude me from raising pigs in my back yard.
John David Galt - 17 Jul 2005 22:19 GMT >>> That's been the law in my home town in metro Detroit >>> for years, you have to store your boat or camper in >>> the garage and if it don't fit, then it will have to >>> go to a storage facility.
>> Rotten place to live.
> Not at all, it keeps the city from looking like a storage > lot. Mere aesthetics are not proper cause for a law.
> But I shouldn't have look at you blue tarp wrapped castle > sized motorhome 364 days a year when I'm trying to relax > in my backyard. Yes, you should. You are not entitled to a nice view onto someone else's property. It's his, not yours. If you don't want to see it, put up a higher fence.
> It's the equivalent of putting a car up on cinder blocks > like a hillbilly, it's an eye-sore. The same principle applies there too.
gcmschemist@gmail.com - 18 Jul 2005 19:22 GMT > >>> That's been the law in my home town in metro Detroit > >>> for years, you have to store your boat or camper in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mere aesthetics are not proper cause for a law. Oh, but it *is*. Property values mean something. And when they are diminished by the action or inaction of others, there's legal cause.
Remember, we're not talkin' hi-falutin' philosophy here - this is about *money.*
E.P.
Dennis M - 19 Jul 2005 10:32 GMT >> >>> That's been the law in my home town in metro Detroit >> >>> for years, you have to store your boat or camper in [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Remember, we're not talkin' hi-falutin' philosophy here - this is about >*money.* And higher property values mean higher property taxes. He should be grateful for that boat parked in his neighbor's yard.
The Etobian - 19 Jul 2005 11:44 GMT >>Oh, but it *is*. Property values mean something. And when they are >>diminished by the action or inaction of others, there's legal cause. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >And higher property values mean higher property taxes. He should be >grateful for that boat parked in his neighbor's yard. The city or town or county assessor might not take boats parked in yards into account when assessing the value of the property for tax purposes.
Jim Yanik - 19 Jul 2005 16:39 GMT >>>Oh, but it *is*. Property values mean something. And when they are >>>diminished by the action or inaction of others, there's legal cause. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > yards into account when assessing the value of the property for tax > purposes. They SHOULD NOT take boats into account for assessing "real property". Boats are not part of the real property,just private possessions,like a lawn tractor or auto.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
G Henslee - 16 Jul 2005 14:02 GMT >>Dennis M wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>who don't have the option of storing it behind their >>house or in a garage. That's not uncommon im many cities nationwide anymore. Some cities allow so many hours a month that the boat or RV can be parked on the property.
Pooh Bear - 17 Jul 2005 09:29 GMT > Some cities > allow so many hours a month that the boat or RV can be parked on the > property. And this in the 'land of the free' !!!!! ?????
Astonishing.
Graahm
ameijers - 14 Jul 2005 03:47 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? Depends if I am carrying a load in back or not. If I am, I back in, so tailgate is right by house door. At work, I pull through the double row of slots so I am facing 'out' to the aisle, because parking lot is laid out badly, and backing out into the narrow aisles is a pain. Most people do the same- you can spot the ones that went out for lunch, because they are nose in, in most cases.
aem sends...
John David Galt - 14 Jul 2005 03:55 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? I back into my present driveway, and did at my previous place in San Francisco as well. In each case I had a specific reason.
My present home is on a minor through street that, half a block away, turns into the main entrance of a regional park that draws hundreds of visitors in summer. The street also has bike lanes that see a lot of use (including kids who often go the wrong way). By backing in, I avoid having to back out into heavy traffic if I leave during rush hour (when this street draws substantial traffic) or on a "park day".
The San Francisco place was on a street where the houses go right up to the property lines, and the one to the right of mine (as seen from the street) had a wall running along the edge of my driveway all the way to the (narrow) sidewalk - and it's a major street. Trying to back out of there at any time would have been suicide. If I could not back in, I would not have dared to use the garage at all.
In both places, I use this technique to minimize the delay to others when I back into the driveway: 1) Pull over so I'm "parallel parked" in the driveway opening. 2) Wait (a reasonable time but not forever) for traffic to clear. 3) Pull out at an angle of about 45 degrees to the curb, as if I were attempting to start a U-turn, but stop while at least part of my back bumper is still in the curb lane. This usually prevents anyone from getting behind me and thus blocking the completion of the maneuver. 4) Check that it's clear (of pedestrians/bikes) behind me, then back into the driveway.
Aside: If your place has a double-wide driveway and yours is the only car using it, a better technique is to pull forward into the driveway, then make a back-and-fill turn within the driveway before shutting off the car with the nose pointing out. If I had the space for this method, I would be using it instead.
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 14 Jul 2005 05:17 GMT One car, yes. I have a narrow two car garage and its easier to get the drivers door open if it swings toward the center of the garage.
 Signature Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Excuse me for butting in, but I'm interrupt-driven.
fbloogyudsr - 15 Jul 2005 18:23 GMT "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote
> One car, yes. I have a narrow two car garage and its easier to get the > drivers door open if it swings toward the center of the garage. I'm curious: anyone have a two-car garage that they back one car into, and front-end the other so that the driver doors are in the center? This gives more room for the doors to swing open and eases (at least for the driver) entry/exit. I do this sometimes in crowded parking lots/garages when spaces are limited (or some a$%^&* has taken more than his share - of course I'm equally likely to park right next to them and block their door).
Floyd
Skip Elliott Bowman - 15 Jul 2005 19:36 GMT >> One car, yes. I have a narrow two car garage and its easier to get the >> drivers door open if it swings toward the center of the garage. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > some a$%^&* has taken more than his share - of course I'm > equally likely to park right next to them and block their door). Same here. In my two car garage, I pull in and the wife backs in. This leaves the tailgate of my SUV accessible for loading/unloading. we've gotten pretty good at hugging the garage walls.
DTJ - 16 Jul 2005 04:27 GMT >"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote >> One car, yes. I have a narrow two car garage and its easier to get the >> drivers door open if it swings toward the center of the garage. > >I'm curious: anyone have a two-car garage that they back one >car into, and front-end the other so that the driver doors are in Yes.
It allows me to park both vehicles towards the outside, leaving a larger center area to open the doors.
Scott en Aztlán - 14 Jul 2005 06:00 GMT >I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) A few YEARS?
>Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I >unusual? You're definitely unusual - on more than one level.
Robert Briggs - 19 Jul 2005 19:34 GMT > > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) > > A few YEARS? That doesn't seem particularly unusual: quite a few folk go abroad for a few years (for work, as missionaries, etc.) and want to return to their houses at the end.
There are also folk who spend significant periods away from home "at Her Majesty's pleasure" - not that I have any reason to suppose that the owner of Kevin's residence is in such a position.
Rob - 14 Jul 2005 07:19 GMT >I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Kevin Spencer I hope you're not unusual because I've been doing it for about 24 years now at different homes I've owned.
asian_guy - 14 Jul 2005 09:20 GMT >I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I >"was planning to go to a fire" .... in a friendly way. "Going to a fire"? What does that mean?
Doug Miller - 14 Jul 2005 14:06 GMT >>I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their >>driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I >>"was planning to go to a fire" .... in a friendly way. > >"Going to a fire"? What does that mean? It means "leaving in a hurry".
 Signature Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Dan J.S. - 14 Jul 2005 15:43 GMT > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:18:24 -0400, Kevin Spencer > <kevinsp@notallthere.net> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "Going to a fire"? What does that mean? Goes back to the fire fighting volunteers... thats how they would park to get to the fire quicker...
Matt - 14 Jul 2005 14:16 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kevin Spencer I back into my driveway because it is easier to pull out into traffic then backout... it's easier to block traffic for a moment when pulling in (if I need to.. the street is not traveled much)... also.. there is less of a chance of something being in my driveway (ie child, bike, car, etc) then on the road when I'm backing up... and as other posters have said.. it's easier to get out in an emergency (I'm a network admin for an ISP and sometimes need to leave in a hury)... why back out when you need to go somewhere? why not back in when you have the time..
Ulf - 14 Jul 2005 15:53 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? It's probably safer to reverse in and drive out. Personally, I do it the easy way and drive in. It makes backing out a bit tricky, especially if there are a lot of parked cars on the street making it impossible to see, but any cars coming usually stop or honk when they see me backing out.
> Kevin Spencer Ulf
Ad absurdum per aspera - 14 Jul 2005 17:06 GMT I do with the van, which even with towing mirrors and a rear-window lens has big blind spots, for pretty much the reasons you describe.
Before backing in, I can get a good look at who or what might be in or near the driveway (usually nothing, but as the saying goes, "assume makes an a.s out of u and me"). If there's something I have to move, or somebody's kid is too close for comfort, or traffic coming, I can parallel park in the mouth of the driveway until I get a handle on the situation.
By contrast, backing out into a public street in such a vehicle, especially in the morning when kids are walking or riding bikes to school, drivers who are late for work and probably a little behind the car are likely to come flying down the street, etc., strikes me as a less controlled situation.
The other possibilities in the family are sedans and a small SUV that have much better sight lines; I usually feel pretty good about nosing in and backing out.
Your neighborhood may vary, --Joe
Joshua Putnam - 14 Jul 2005 17:07 GMT I always back in when I park -- it's much easier to pull past my driveway, make sure the driveway is clear, then back into it, than it is to make sure the street is clear before I start, and remains clear while I back out onto the street.
The driveway is a much more confined space, there's no other vehicle traffic coming onto it, much less pedestrian traffic, and no room for bicycles or skateboards to be going fast. The street has intersections, other driveways, public sidewalks, bicycles riding on the wrong side of the road, etc. And a motorist entering the roadway is required to yield to all the traffic already on the roadway, so almost any accident backing out of a driveway is going to be the backing motorist's fault.
If I remember correctly, around 20% of all car/pedestrian accidents are children being hit by cars backing out of driveways.
 Signature josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam <http://www.phred.org/~josh/> Updated Bicycle Touring Books List: <http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>
Mark - 14 Jul 2005 17:25 GMT >I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Kevin Spencer I know in my state it's illegal to back OUT of a driveway. It's never enforced, but it's on the books. I suppose it may be enforced if you backed out and caused an accident. Makes perfect sense depending on the street.
I used to live on a fairly busy street and would always pull up just passed my driveway on the edge and then back in when the traffic broke. This was FAR safer than trying to back out on to the busy street.
v - 14 Jul 2005 17:27 GMT On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:18:24 -0400, someone wrote:
>Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I >unusual? How long is your driveway?
Is it any easier to back out than in?
Most people I know, drive forward into their driveway, and then turn around to go out forwards also.
I back my trailer into the driveway so that I can park it tight against a building. The cars, I drive in and then turn around to go out.
Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.
Stan Horwitz - 14 Jul 2005 22:37 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? Yes. That's the way I was taught to park. Especially at my parents' house, backing out of their driveway is a major pain in the neck, but backing into it is a no-brainer. I also prefer not to have to back out into a public area where kids and other traffic may come up in my car's blind spot.
Mark - 14 Jul 2005 22:40 GMT >> I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >> moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >into a public area where kids and other traffic may come up in my car's >blind spot. Now, we haven't even mentioned those who drive in and drive out of their driveway! My recent house affords me the 'luxury' of a big enough area where I can easily turn around and then back in to the area where I leave my car.
Skip Elliott Bowman - 14 Jul 2005 22:50 GMT >> I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >> moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I >> unusual? No problem here. I can back a car, a van, a truck, or a 25' trailer into virtually any garage, as long as it would fit in there once parked. In fact, all other things being equal I prefer to back in. Power mirrors make it a lot easier but it can be done regardless.
For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In Parking Only". I have no idea what's up with that.
Mark - 14 Jul 2005 23:04 GMT >>> I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently >>> moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In Parking >Only". I have no idea what's up with that. Come on. Really? I've never seen a sign like that. What type of places have you seen these signs? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to know a little more...
poboxdc@ix.netcom.com - 15 Jul 2005 05:44 GMT > >>> I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > >>> moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > have you seen these signs? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to know a > little more... It's to make sure nobody has dumped a stolen car off. Some states require only a rear tag, instead of front and back.
Im my area all public parking lots are "Front In Only."
KM
Rich Greenberg - 14 Jul 2005 23:58 GMT [big snip]
>For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In Parking >Only". I have no idea what's up with that. In the "Residents Only" parking areas at the local train station where I grew up it was so the cops could verify that you had the residents sticker on your rear bumper.
It could also be so that the cops could check for expired registrations easily (in states where the sticker gos on the rear plate).
 Signature Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
Skip Elliott Bowman - 15 Jul 2005 00:49 GMT > [big snip] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It could also be so that the cops could check for expired registrations > easily (in states where the sticker gos on the rear plate). That would explain it. Thanks, Rich.
fbloogyudsr - 15 Jul 2005 00:52 GMT "Skip Elliott Bowman" <skipster@teleport.com> wrote
> For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In Parking > Only". I have no idea what's up with that. Generally, they're so that the longer rear overhang of the car doesn't block the sidewalk or hit something beyond the bump stop.
Floyd
QB3 - 17 Jul 2005 00:36 GMT > "Skip Elliott Bowman" <skipster@teleport.com> wrote > > For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In Parking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Floyd Yeah, I agree with that. In Virginia, with license plates front and rear, it is a reasonable explanation for the signs. I've seen them in areas where stone walls were in front of the spaces and places where cars in the next row might be hit by those backing in (with sufficient overhang).
Stan Horwitz - 15 Jul 2005 15:58 GMT > >> I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > >> moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In Parking > Only". I have no idea what's up with that. Yeh, now that you mention it. I have seen those signs too, but only in a few parking garages in New York City. I wonder what the point is of that. One other benefit to parking with the front facing out is that if your car battery dies, its a lot easier to get a jump start because you will need shorter jumper cables. Its also easier to get a tow if your car won't start at all if the front is facing out. I do park face in sometimes, mainly if I am in a big hurry, but that's unusual for me.
fbloogyudsr - 15 Jul 2005 16:01 GMT > "Skip Elliott Bowman" <skipster@teleport.com> wrote: >> For some reason, some parking lots have signs that state "Front-In [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > your car battery dies, its a lot easier to get a jump start because you > will need shorter jumper cables. Except for cars such as BMWs that have their batteries in the trunk.
Floyd
Curtis CCR - 15 Jul 2005 18:54 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Does anyone else back in to the driveway .... or am I > unusual? Probably a bit unusual, but there is nothing generally wrong with it.
My wife used to back into our driveway so that the driver's side door would be on the center of the drive. It was narrow enough that people getting out on one side would have to step on the lawn - she didn't like stepping on the lawn in her work shoes (heels, etc). Since the drive faced south, backing in kept the sun from beating in on the through the back window and cooking our kid's car seat. She kept a sun shade in the front window. We have recently moved, and I sold my boat, so she has room to park in the garage now.
My company has a policy telling anyone driving a company vehicle to use what they call "planned parking." Part of that is, when possible, to park in such a way that backing will not be required when arriving or leaving. When backing cannot be avoided, we recommend that it be done on arrival, not departure. The idea is that when you back into a paking space, you can usually visually clear it from the drivers seat before parking when you arrive. And when leaving, it is easier to see traffic hazards you may be pulling into when going foward rather than backing.
SlipperySlope - 15 Jul 2005 20:54 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I won't have to worry about backing into a small child or > another vehicle. I back into my driveway and garage(s) exclusively. When I'm ready to enter the VERY BUSY street I live on, I simply look left and right and then let out the clutch and go when clear. If I try to back out of the spot, it's like a roll of the dice cause I don't have a overall clear field of observation of coming cars when I'm looking over my shoulders.
When I visit my parents, I back into their long driveway. Same thing as above, my field of observation via peering over the shoulder is much more limited than looking ahead when driving the car straight out of their driveway. In fact, some years ago, after bringing the parents car into the driveway via reversing it into the driveway, my parents, after years and years of driving front-end-first into their driveway, so liked driving straight out of the driveway cause I had made it possible by backing their car into their driveway, that they now EXCLUSIVELY back their car into the driveway.
When in parking lots I back into the parking spot (well except for the angled spots which are clearly made for front-end-first parking). No worrying about cars approaching as I try to back out.
> I have noticed that most others always pull forward into their > driveways, in fact one neighbor did actually ask me if I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Kevin Spencer Robert Morien - 15 Jul 2005 22:53 GMT > > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I recently > > moved into a house (I'm house-sitting for a few years) and [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Kevin Spencer wow, but that's a horrible pet peeve
skipintro@gmail.com - 16 Jul 2005 00:43 GMT I front in *AND* front out of my driveway! All you need is a circular driveway.
Jim Yanik - 16 Jul 2005 01:54 GMT > I front in *AND* front out of my driveway! All you need is a circular > driveway. Or a turn-around pad. (a "Tee" pad) Drive in forward,and back into the Tee-pad(90deg turn) to drive out forwards. It even gives you extra parking when necessary.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
Bob Ward - 16 Jul 2005 07:08 GMT >I front in *AND* front out of my driveway! All you need is a circular >driveway. Actually, a half-circle will suffice.
Dave Balderstone - 16 Jul 2005 23:57 GMT > >I front in *AND* front out of my driveway! All you need is a circular > >driveway. > > Actually, a half-circle will suffice. I had a circular driveway once. When we moved, I had to leave the car. Couldn't get it onto the street.
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lcer09@aol.com - 19 Jul 2005 21:35 GMT I do the same, but my driveway's as straight as can be. It goes along the side of my house to the rear-facing garage. Backing in or out would be rather frightening since it's a 70+ feet long single car width with a brick wall on one side, and a drop-off to the neighbors house on the other.
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 22 Jul 2005 06:43 GMT Robert Morien wrote:
[snip]
> wow, but that's a horrible pet peeve Is there a leash law for pet peeves?
 Signature Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you. -- Eric Hoffer
G Henslee - 16 Jul 2005 13:59 GMT > I wanted to get some opinions about my behavior. I find > myself always backing into the driveway now when I park, or am I > unusual? > > Kevin Spencer You must lead an exciting life. And no doubt back into other things as well. Thanks for sharing...
Wordsmith - 16 Jul 2005 18:51 GMT You are unusually conscientious in looking out for kids and other vehicles. Lead on, sir.
W : )
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