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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / July 20058 foot long Smart Cars coming to america.
Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers with this dinky thing. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8645488/ By Roland Jones MSNBC Updated: 6:52 p.m. ET July 21, 2005 In America everything, they say, is bigger. But when it comes to automobiles, is the smaller, more fuel-efficient car about to become the next big thing in motoring? ZAP certainly hopes so. The Santa Rosa, Calif.,-based manufacturer of electric motor powered bicycles and power-assisted kit cars plans to sell DaimlerChryslers Smart Cars first launched in Europe and now seen on the roads of most European nations and also in Africa, Asia, Canada and Mexico in the United States, seeing a big niche market for very small cars. The thinking is, with gasoline prices hitting record highs and traffic in the nations major cities becoming increasingly congested, Americans are likely to buy fewer gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks and gravitate toward smaller, more efficient vehicles like the Smart Car a mere 8 feet, 2 inches long and just over 5 feet tall according to ZAPs CEO Steve Schneider. The market timing for what we are doing couldnt be better, Schneider said. Fuel prices are at all time highs, and social responsibility about global warming is something thats more in the mainstream and not a left-wing thing, he added. And theres the issue of our dependency on foreign oil too all this makes our business plan very timely. ZAPs plan is to sell 15,000 Smart Cars updated to American road standards through its U.S. distribution network of dealers. Schneider said he already has some $2 billion in orders, far exceeding his initial goal of $300 million, and is preparing the 2005 model year Smart Cars the first it intends to Americanize and offer through its dealer network by September. DaimlerChrysler halted its plan to bring the tiny car stateside, and so ZAP has worked instead to buy the vehicles from a network of independent European suppliers, updating them for U.S. use to meet American safety and pollution standards. ZAP plans to sell the coupe version of the car for around $21,000 and the convertible for $25,000. In Europe, the Smart Car coupe sells for about $15,000 and the convertible for $18,000. At about half the size of most mid-size cars, the two-seater, ForTwo Smart Car is powered by a three-cylinder engine and big enough to hold two adult passengers. It does 50 miles to the gallon and has a cruising speed of about 85 miles per hour. > Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers > with this dinky thing. > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8645488/ The term Smart Car is a term that stupid people use to try and pretend that they are smart. The term Smart Car or anything else these days is more validly used when advanced electronics and computers are used to give the car much better capabilities that just another teak on mechanical design. The car in the article is just another minor mechanical tweak. > > Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers > > with this dinky thing. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The car in the article is just another minor mechanical tweak. Now why would you say that? How would you solve what is certainly an impending energy crisis? Can you afford to pay $3-4 per gallon of gas? What if rationing becomes a more likely scenario? For any number of reasons, we need to start converting our economy to one that is not based on oil. This is a start, at the very least. > Now why would you say that? Deciding a smaller car does not take a lot of intelligence. It is obvious even to bland average people > How would you solve what is certainly an impending energy crisis? The majority of the effort is going towards developing new energy sources with better environmental characteristics. If you have a limited supply of oil, conservation is a short term solution to slightly stretch out the supply a few month or a few years. A stupid approach. New energy sources will provide hundreds of years of supply to give time to for example develop fusion with about a 2 billion year supply. New sources takes technology development and sophisticated thinking. The US and Europe at least are leaning towards clean coal and sequestering the CO2 in depleted oil wells. There is a major article about this in the July issue of Scientific American. Read it and find out what the high intelligence people are doing as opposed the hand ringing, average intelligence conservation type people are doing. Conservation invariable leads to only very small gains of a percent or two saving over the long term. > Can you afford to pay $3-4 per gallon of gas? With everyone fighting over a dwindling supply of oil, the price will go much higher. Stupid approach. Much better to have enough supply to keep prices reasonable. > What if rationing becomes a more likely scenario? That means a failure of leadership. I think there are still good leaders in the world. > For any number of reasons, we need to start converting our economy to > one that is not based on oil. That is the goal > > Now why would you say that? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > for example develop fusion with about a 2 billion year supply. New sources > takes technology development and sophisticated thinking. Yes, but that's the challenge, isn't it? So we don't we do it? > The US and Europe at least are leaning towards clean coal and sequestering > the CO2 in depleted oil wells. There is a major article about this in the > July issue of Scientific American. I think we need to find an alternative to fossil fuels, period. > Read it and find out what the high intelligence people are doing as opposed > the hand ringing, average intelligence conservation type people are doing. > Conservation invariable leads to only very small gains of a percent or two > saving over the long term. > > Can you afford to pay $3-4 per gallon of gas? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That means a failure of leadership. I think there are still good leaders > in the world. Not if the Middle East destabilizes. And that is a very real possibility. > > For any number of reasons, we need to start converting our economy to > > one that is not based on oil. > > That is the goal > I think we need to find an alternative to fossil fuels, period. The writing's been on the wall long enough for heaven's sake. There's just too many entrenched interests in keeping to the same old ways. Graham >> I think we need to find an alternative to fossil fuels, period. > >The writing's been on the wall long enough for heaven's sake. There's just too >many entrenched interests in keeping to the same old ways. Like everyone who doesn't want to be shivering in the dark, for starters. (or, given today's temperature at my location, sweltering in the heat) >The US and Europe at least are leaning towards clean coal and sequestering >the CO2 in depleted oil wells. There is a major article about this in the >July issue of Scientific American. What was once a decent magazine is nothing more than liberal bullshit. I have doubts about anything printed there anymore. > >The US and Europe at least are leaning towards clean coal and sequestering > >the CO2 in depleted oil wells. There is a major article about this in the > >July issue of Scientific American. > > What was once a decent magazine is nothing more than liberal bullshit. > I have doubts about anything printed there anymore. I guess you're one of those ppl who consider any thought other than serves your own short-term selfish self-interest is so-called 'liberal' and therefore wrong ? Graham > > > Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers > > > with this dinky thing. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > This is a start, at the very least. A Smart start perhaps ? Graham > The term Smart Car is a term that stupid people use to try and pretend > that they are smart. Of course, it's also the tradename that's been used for several years in Europe for this car. I'd imagine that much of the market demand was started by Americans who saw the thing over there and decided it was very cute (stylish being another meaning of "smart") and/or a good way to solve their mostly-single-passenger urban runabout needs. The company (which I gather is a scion, not to mention the Scion, of the Benz side of Daimler-Chrysler) has pursued the Eurohipster market with such attributes as interchangeable body panels ("le fresh-up"), some of them in reef-fish colors or grafittiesque patterns. I'd imagine ZAP is hoping for the same demographic here. Its other major advantage, besides good gas mileage and whatever ineffable coolitude it does or does not garner in the American mind, is that it can just about park in its own glove compartment. I don't see it (or the various other high-design urban microcars seen in some foreign countries) really taking over the mainstream of the US market... but I also wouldn't be surprised if, a few years from now, there's a waiting list for the things in urban see-and-be-scene settings and/or anywhere near a college campus. --Joe > > The term Smart Car is a term that stupid people use to try and pretend > > that they are smart. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > there's a waiting list for the things in urban see-and-be-scene > settings and/or anywhere near a college campus. The entire concept of the Smart car was dreamt up by Swiss watch manufacturer Swatch IIRC. As such it certainly was a 'design led' product. They had the good sense to get Mercedes Benz involved. It's been a pretty succesful product if not a total stormer. The roadster is cute too. Graham > At about half the size of most mid-size cars, the two-seater, ForTwo > Smart Car is powered by a three-cylinder engine and big enough to hold > two adult passengers. It does 50 miles to the gallon and has a > cruising speed of about 85 miles per hour. why does the car need to do 85 miles per hour? the speed limits aren't 85 miles per hour on interstate highways .......... o > > At about half the size of most mid-size cars, the two-seater, ForTwo > > Smart Car is powered by a three-cylinder engine and big enough to hold [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > on interstate highways .......... > o I've been complaining about that for years. Only way this will stop is when someone is maimed by a psycho doing 85 mph and then sues the manufacturer. I don't know why that hasn't happened yet. I suspect someone has tried it and the manufacturers gave them a fortune to settle out of court. >I don't know why that hasn't happened yet. You don't know anything, so why should this be a surprise?  SignatureThe last song I started on my PC was: Linkin Park - Somewhere I Belong - Meteora K:\Audio\Linkin Park\Meteora\03-Somewhere I Belong.mp3 This is track 29 of 57 in the current playlist. > > At about half the size of most mid-size cars, the two-seater, ForTwo > > Smart Car is powered by a three-cylinder engine and big enough to hold [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > miles per hour > on interstate highways .......... THey're getting close though.....80 MPH in parts of western TX. > o >> why does the car need to do 85 miles per hour? the speed limits >> aren't 85 miles per hour >> on interstate highways .......... 85 is the hi speed lane in large population areas. > THey're getting close though.....80 MPH in parts of western TX. so, actual speed might be 95? Signaturethou halt not keeeel, but an aye for an aye; yeh, biblical moral relativism. >>> why does the car need to do 85 miles per hour? So it can do 60 when it has 50,000 miles on it. "Who controls the English crown? Who keeps the electric car down? We do! We do!" Sung at the Stonecutters meeting on The Simpsons SignatureRick (Richard Allen) Hohensee Party of one. write-in candidate, President of the United States of America platform ftp://linux01.gwdg.de/pub/cLIeNUX/interim/platform2 personal webpage http://linux01.gwdg.de/~rhohen active in Usenet alt.politics colorg on IRC humbubba@smart.net Maryland, USA Ground troops out of Iraq Put the CIA under INS Save Darfur Semi-legalize drugs Prosecute Bush Tighten the borders Isolate Israel Tax churches halve military aquisitions government jobs for Iraq-wounded soldiers and 9-11 survivors please email my platform to friends, blogs and countrymen ------------------------------------------------------------- > Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers > with this dinky thing. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > two adult passengers. It does 50 miles to the gallon and has a > cruising speed of about 85 miles per hour. It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it is priced well above many other small maneuverable cars that carry four and have a trunk. Another issue is that MB is not importing the car, but some independent company named Zap. So does that mean Smart Car owners will have to use the parts and repair system of Zap and not M-B? I'm starting to have flashbacks to automotive successes like Yugo, DeLorean and Subaru 360 that left owners with cars for which there were no parts. > > Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers > > with this dinky thing. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > DeLorean and Subaru 360 that left owners with cars for which there were > no parts. I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. We do have a limited supply of oil, and Iraq has certainly proved that the Middle East is simply to goofy to deal with. So the West needs to lessen its dependence on oil, and better while it is still a matter of choice. > I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs > to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. Bio-fuel. It's as simple as that. Diesels can already run on vegetable oil. And indeed sometimes do. It's actually cleaner and gets rid of the black soot AFAIK. Various methods exist to make alcohol from various types of biomass. It can be blended with ordinary petroleum fuel easily up to 50%. Very few changes are needed to run in a standard engine. Hydrogen is a non-starter. Graham >> I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs >> to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. > >Bio-fuel. It's as simple as that. Unfortunately it's not. (join lines) http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/business/Full_Story/ did-sghgr0bYKGMl2sg7OWirIStPSk.asp ...researchers at Cornell University and the University of California, Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. >Diesels can already run on vegetable oil. And indeed sometimes do. It's >actually cleaner and gets rid of the black soot AFAIK. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Graham Signature/"\ Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English) \ / http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si" X ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings. / \ I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread. > >> I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs > >> to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into > ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. I note no scientific substance in that link. Note that there's no significant energy required to make vegetable oil though. Also note that producing hydrogen is *very* energy intensive. Hydrogen is also a poor choice of fuel due to storage issues. The authors of that report seem to be out of touch. Graham >> I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs >> to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. > >Bio-fuel. It's as simple as that. There isn't enough available by several orders of magnitude. It's as simple as that. > >> I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs > >> to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > There isn't enough available by several orders of magnitude. It's as > simple as that. Well.... there is currently world agricultural surplus. Something like 10% of European agricultural land currently lies idle. So - simply grow some more ! I'm sure - given the right economic conditions that the USA would rise to the task as well. You don't have to *completely* convert to bio-fuel. Indeed it seems that a 50/50 mix of conventional oil based fuel and bio-fuel works well. That alone would have a very significant impact on the whole energy situation. Graham >> >> I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs >> >> to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Well.... there is currently world agricultural surplus. Something like 10% of >European agricultural land currently lies idle. Drops in a bucket. World vegetable oil consumption 2004: 105.6 million metric tons World crude oil consumption: about 77 million barrels per day. There's 7.33 barrels of oil per metric ton. So call it 3.8 BILLION metric tons of oil. There isn't enough land to produce enough oil to make a difference, even assuming we don't want to continue using the vegetable oil as a food source. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > >> >> I see your point and I agree, but I think the greater issue that needs > >> >> to be addressed is one of alternate fuel. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > difference, even assuming we don't want to continue using the > vegetable oil as a food source. Apparently the OECD disagrees. I was trawling the net for info about bio-fuel and noticed one page where an OECD study was quoted. They reckon that bio-fuel could substitute up to 80% of fossil fuel usage in vehicular applications. Unfortunately I mistakenly closed that window and haven't yet been able to replicate my previous path to it. So, basically they say you're mistaken. In any event, given demand, and there sure will be when fossil fuel prices keep on increasing, simple economics will come into play. Where there's a buck to be made you can be sure ppl will find a way to make it. Graham >> >> There isn't enough available by several orders of magnitude. It's as >> >> simple as that. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Unfortunately I mistakenly closed that window and haven't yet been able to >replicate my previous path to it. So you have a web page you can't find quoting an unnamed study which says this? About as convincing as Fermat's proof for his last theorem. >So, basically they say you're mistaken. > >In any event, given demand, and there sure will be when fossil fuel prices keep on >increasing, simple economics will come into play. Simple economics can't cause a 30-fold increase in vegetable oil production SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like > southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > DeLorean and Subaru 360 that left owners with cars for which there were > no parts. The same thing happened in the UK. A small company decided to sell the then LHD only Smart car in the UK. Despite having the steering wheel on the wrong side it was a success. You can now get RHD Smart cars too. I've been in one of the original 'ForTwo's as they now call them. They're very practical if you don't need a family car. Quiet comfy even. Certainly not fast but there's precious little chance to go fast on today's roads. Graham >> It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like >> southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > very practical if you don't need a family car. Quiet comfy even. Certainly > not fast but there's precious little chance to go fast on today's roads. Maybe in the UK, but in the US there are many places where it's easy to exceed 100MPH, especially out west. Even in the cities of the east, 70-80 MPH is a normal speed on freeways. I don't see this Smart car succeeding, except for maybe NY and SF. SignatureBeliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing. - Maynard James Keenan > > I've been in one of the original 'ForTwo's as they now call them. They're > > very practical if you don't need a family car. Quiet comfy even. Certainly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > MPH is a normal speed on freeways. I don't see this Smart car succeeding, > except for maybe NY and SF. The vast majority of people spend the vast majority of their driving around home, going to the store, running errands, and going back and forth to work. Much of this driving is done with only one person in the car. I would think that that these smart style cars would be ideal for that. You could fit more of them on the roads, and more of them in the already limited parking areas. I don't object to people having large cars and SUV's, but why burn up expensive vehicles like that in bumper to bumper commuter traffic. Why not get something less costly and more efficient for the routine stuff, and save your expensive vehicles for those trips out west and on the open road. I myself would love something like the gasoline powered Corbin cars. They are essentially a motorcycle with car-like front steering, and a fiberglass body, and the now-standard luxuries like automatic transmission, power steering, stereo, GPS, A/C, etc. -john- Signature====================================================================== John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com ====================================================================== >> > I've been in one of the original 'ForTwo's as they now call them. >> > They're [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > efficient for the routine stuff, and save your expensive vehicles > for those trips out west and on the open road. It would be acceptable for intercity trips, but not for anything that would require freeway travel. > I myself would love something like the gasoline powered Corbin > cars. They are essentially a motorcycle with car-like front > steering, and a fiberglass body, and the now-standard luxuries > like automatic transmission, power steering, stereo, GPS, A/C, > etc. Sounds good, but deep-six the slushbox. SignatureBeliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing. - Maynard James Keenan > > > I've been in one of the original 'ForTwo's as they now call them. They're > > > very practical if you don't need a family car. Quiet comfy even. Certainly [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > efficient for the routine stuff, and save your expensive vehicles > for those trips out west and on the open road. The first thought that I had when I first saw a photo of one in a magazine article a couple of years ago was "if this thing can tow a motorcycle trailer (one designed to be hitched to a motorcycle), you could even go roadtripping in one". Just put the luggage in the trailer, hook it up to the Smart and away you go. :-) Will these be like the European Smarts with the diesel engine? Signature___________________________________________ ____ _______________ Regards, | |\ ____ | | | | |\ Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again! Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | | ___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________ > > > > I've been in one of the original 'ForTwo's as they now call them. They're > > > > very practical if you don't need a family car. Quiet comfy even. Certainly [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Will these be like the European Smarts with the diesel engine? I'm not aware of *any* diesel Smarts. The original Smarts ( the ones in question ) have turbocharged 3 cyl gasoline engines. Very cute. They fit under the floor. Like the Merc A series IIRC. The floor is also 'twin ply' for extra strength - like the Merc A series too. Graham > I'm not aware of *any* diesel Smarts. The > original Smarts ( the ones in question ) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 'twin ply' for extra strength - like the > Merc A series too. The Smarts in Canada (they've been on sale here for a while) are diesels. They have also proven to be popular - you see them everywhere. A couple of years ago the British magazine Car brought one across the Atlantic and drove it from New York to L.A. Made for an interesting article... Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Yeah but no but Grid: CN89mg yeah but no but..." ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - V. Pollard > The Smarts in Canada (they've been on sale here for a while) are > diesels. They have also proven to be popular - you see them everywhere. True, in Toronto. > A couple of years ago the British magazine Car brought one across the > Atlantic and drove it from New York to L.A. Made for an interesting > article... ...a couple of months ago the US magazine "Car & Driver" brought one across the Atlantic (why they didn't bring one down from Canada, I don't know) and drove it across Oklahoma. Made for a very interesting article. > > It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like > > southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > very practical if you don't need a family car. Quiet comfy even. Certainly > not fast but there's precious little chance to go fast on today's roads. Good thoughts. Yes, I agree the Smart Car would work very well in high congestion areas that are found in europe. I'm not sure there is the demand for such a car in the U.S. though. There were several fine cars that came to the U.S. that were less than successful in the U.S. because they were too small for the market. Morris Minor, Renault Dauphine, Hillman Minx, Citroen 2CV come to mind, but there were others. > > > It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like > > > southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > that came to the U.S. that were less than successful in the U.S. > because they were too small for the market. Morris Minor, I think that this was the original Morris *Mini* from the mid-1960s. One of them is owned and driven by a local guy up here and it is a regular at all of the area old car shows. Its body style is nearly identical to the more modern Mini Coopers, only smaller. > Renault > Dauphine, Hillman Minx, Citroen 2CV come to mind, but there were > others. Signature___________________________________________ ____ _______________ Regards, | |\ ____ | | | | |\ Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again! Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | | ___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________ > > > > It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like > > > > southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Dauphine, Hillman Minx, Citroen 2CV come to mind, but there were > > others. There may be some confusion caused by the fact that one of the models was often called the Morris Mini Minor ! Graham > > > > It has a high "cute" factor, which means it will sell in places like > > > > southern california no matter the price. As an entry level 2 seater it [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > regular at all of the area old car shows. Its body style is nearly > identical to the more modern Mini Coopers, only smaller. Yes, the Cooper has several older smaller relatives. Originally the front wheel drive mini was released as the Austin and Morris Mini and MG had the slightly larger sports sedan with a unique if troublesome hydrolastic suspension. The mini were I believe produced constantly for at least 40 years and was later extensively modified by Cooper into a small rocket of a car. > > Morris Minor, Renault > > Dauphine, Hillman Minx, Citroen 2CV come to mind, but there were [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | | > ___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________ > There were several fine cars > that came to the U.S. that were less than successful in the U.S. > because they were too small for the market. Check this one out ! http://www.topgear.com/content/timetoburn/sections/carbage/pages/0373/ Graham Cool...er...wild...er...tiny! And for color and 3 wheels how about a KR200. http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/images/mess-o-schmitts-03.jpg > Cool...er...wild...er...tiny! > > And for color and 3 wheels how about a KR200. > > http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/images/mess-o-schmitts-03.jpg You don't have permission to access /tour/images/mess-o-schmitts-03.jpg on this server Graham :-( > > Cool...er...wild...er...tiny! > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham :-( I tried, but failed at intellectual property theft ;-) This guy has an amazing collection of the so-called microcars that were so popular in the 20 years following WWII. You will find many Messerschmitt KR200's and all the rest of the collection on a neat vitrual tour. They were made by the german aircraft company of the same name, seating and the cockpit-like top mde the tiny car look like a 3 wheeled airplane! http://www.microcarmuseum.com/ http://www.microcarmuseum.com/ > > > Cool...er...wild...er...tiny! > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I tried, but failed at intellectual property theft ;-) Lol ! > This guy has an amazing collection of the so-called microcars that were > so popular in the 20 years following WWII. You will find many [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.microcarmuseum.com/ Ok, I entered via the front door and found them ! Goodness, I remember those Heinkel and Messerschitt 'bubble cars' as we called them from the late 60s. There were still just a few around back then. Graham > > > > Cool...er...wild...er...tiny! > > > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Goodness, I remember those Heinkel and Messerschitt 'bubble cars' as we > called them from the late 60s. There were still just a few around back then. Yes, the Heinkel was a three wheeled look-a-like of the Isetta, and there was as I remember Lloyd, Zundapp, NSU, Fiat 500 and several other lesser known names that were imported into California in the mid to late 1950's. I picked up on Ebay a book titled Kleinwagen written by Taschen. It's a delightful visual and written history of microcars going back to the 1930's and carrying forward to the 1990's. > > There were several fine cars > > that came to the U.S. that were less than successful in the U.S. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.topgear.com/content/timetoburn/sections/carbage/pages/0373/ Very nice ... they could sell in America. The chicks would love 'em. Last summer I was driving through Deerfield Beach Florida and saw some very nice 3-wheel vehicles they were renting. Road- legal, plastic and fiberglas construction, two wheels in front and one in the back. Accomodated two people. Looked to be powered by a 600cc motorcycle engine (Suzuki I think). These were sexy little around-town vehicles done up very stylish. Probably got 50+ miles per gallon. I believe having two wheels up front makes the vehicle less prone to tipping-over in a turn. If I can find a picture sometime, I'll post it. "Coming"? They are already here. Have seen them here since 2002. > ZAP plans to sell the coupe version of the car for around $21,000 and > the convertible for $25,000. Too much, especially given the small size of the "Smart Car". Looking on Toyota's website, I could get a decent-package Corolla for several thousand less, plus have the benefit of a much larger storage capacity (useful for hauling lots of books and maps as I tend to do) and *STILL* get over 30 MPG ('05 Corolla benchmarks 30/38 city/highway). Froggie >> ZAP plans to sell the coupe version of the car for around $21,000 and >> the convertible for $25,000. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (useful for hauling lots of books and maps as I tend to do) and *STILL* > get over 30 MPG ('05 Corolla benchmarks 30/38 city/highway). Not to mention much better crash protection. SignatureBeliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing. - Maynard James Keenan > > ZAP plans to sell the coupe version of the car for around $21,000 and > > the convertible for $25,000. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (useful for hauling lots of books and maps as I tend to do) and *STILL* > get over 30 MPG ('05 Corolla benchmarks 30/38 city/highway). Yup, the pricing is berserk. Look at the UK prices. Multiply by about 1.75 to convert to USD. http://www.smart.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-uk-content-Site/-/-/-/SVC PresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite://mpc-uk-Site/mpc-uk.com/RootFolder/smart /home.page Entry level price is about $12,000 equivalent. Graham > > ZAP plans to sell the coupe version of the car for around $21,000 and > > the convertible for $25,000. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (useful for hauling lots of books and maps as I tend to do) and *STILL* > get over 30 MPG ('05 Corolla benchmarks 30/38 city/highway). Yeah but the smart car will give you TWICE that mileage and that's the whole point of owning it. Face it - you just want to waste gas cause you love to see american soldiers killed in iraq. >Yeah but the smart car will give you TWICE that mileage and that's the >whole point of owning it. Face it - you just want to waste gas cause >you love to see american soldiers killed in iraq. Have you traded in your beater on one yet? > Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: > > froggie@mississippi.net wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Yeah but the smart car will give you TWICE that mileage and that's the > whole point of owning it. Smart Car = 50 MPG Corolla = 30 City/38 Highway Last time I checked, 50 was not "twice" 30, and DEFINATLEY not "twice" 38. > Face it - you just want to waste gas cause you love to see american > soldiers killed in iraq. FYI, I happen to be one of the American servicemen you're disrespecting here...not that I expect you to understand or accept that given the tone of your crossposts in the past. Lastly, as I said before, I tend to haul around a lot of books and maps with me in my travels. The "Smart Car" simply does not meet that need... Froggie > > > Too much, especially given the small size of the "Smart Car". Looking > > > on Toyota's website, I could get a decent-package Corolla for several [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > with me in my travels. The "Smart Car" simply does not meet that > need... We need to have more "Smart Posters" on Usenet... that would exclude the malignant troll LBMHBF above (who I have killfiled). SignatureScott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com >> Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: >> > froggie@mississippi.net wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > with me in my travels. The "Smart Car" simply does not meet that > need... I decided to look up aome pictures, and it seems the longer 4-door model would have enough room to carry some luggage, provided you only had one passenger. What kind of mileage does the 4-door get? SignatureBeliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing. - Maynard James Keenan >Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers >with this dinky thing. > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8645488/ Actually, these may have a use: as ZevNet cars. The ZevNet concept is to put lots of commuter vehicles at rail stations; people get off the train and hop into a waiting car to drive to their final destination. Right now they do it with electric clown car SUVs, but these would be even better for the purpose (taking up less space, costing less, etc. etc.) > Shoot dood. I want my 6000 pound SUV. I can't terrorize other drivers > with this dinky thing. Shoot; substitute "drivers" with "fags", and you have the same discourse you use at the bath houses! Should I ever see one of these "cars" on the highway, I will be happy to put it, and it's owner, out of their misery. > Should I ever see one of these "cars" on the highway, I will be happy to > put it, and it's owner, out of their misery. Oh really? Guess you hadn't ought to come to Canada, then. Er...what makes you want to destroy a Smart if you see it? And how, exactly, do you intend to do it? |
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