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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / July 2005

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YAY - Chicago treating criminal bicyclists same as criminal drivers

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laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE - 25 Jul 2005 03:07 GMT
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0507200234jul20,1,5918660.story?col
l=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true


Bicyclists not free to ride as they please
A police crackdown in the city's Lakeview neighborhood carries a
warning: Traffic laws that apply to cars also apply to bikes.

By Kelly Kennedy - Tribune staff reporter -Published July 20, 2005

When bicycle police stopped Jacob Meehan at Roscoe and Halsted Streets
in Chicago's Lakeview neighborhood, he immediately knew what he had
done.

"I was going the wrong direction on a one-way," Meehan said.

"No, we caught him going through a stop sign," the officer said.

"Oh," Meehan said.

Police spent six hours Tuesday on bike patrol in Lakeview, giving out
37 warnings to bicyclists for running red lights, riding on sidewalks
and, indeed, going the wrong direction on a one-way street. Next
month, police will start handing out tickets, with fines that range
from $25 to $250.

Members of Mayor Richard Daley's Bicycling Ambassadors, an educational
outreach group, were also in Lakeview on Tuesday, passing out bike
safety information and maps showing routes with bike lanes or wide
streets. They'll be out again in Lakeview from 1 to 9 p.m. Wednesday.

"It's kind of annoying because I was trying to do my thing, but it's
understandable," Meehan said about the police stop. "At least they
were gracious enough to give me a warning."

Then he asked the officer if he should be wearing a helmet in Chicago.

Yes.

Bicyclists in the neighborhood agreed they tend to ignore the rules,
and that it could lead to injury. Police decided to start on Halsted
Street because business owners had complained about too many bicycles
on the sidewalks, Chicago Police Sgt. Phil Greco said.

"We're not out to hurt anyone with a citation," Greco said. "We're
just out here to make it safer."

Greco said a lot of bicyclists do not know that only children younger
than 12 may ride on sidewalks or that the same laws that apply to cars
apply to bicycles. But some of them do and ignore the rules.

Just after scooting through a red light, Josh Zaffino said police had
no reason to patrol the neighborhood because most of the bicyclists
are regulars who know the rules.

"Granted, there was a red light back there," he said, "but there
weren't any cars."

As he spoke, another man drove his bike past on the sidewalk.

Zaffino said he sometimes rides his bike on the wrong side of the
road, but that sometimes it is hard to get over to the correct side
when traffic is heavy.

"But it's not a problem," he said. "If people are coming from the
other direction, bikers always get out of the way."

Eve Jennings, program director for the Bicycle Ambassadors, said
bicyclists need to obey the law because they cannot always be sure
what everybody else is going to do. For example, a person opening a
car door might look to the rear to make sure no one is coming, but not
forward because traffic is not supposed to be coming from that
direction.

And bicyclists need to be safer in general. Jennings said seven
bicyclists died in 2003 in Chicago. "We want more people to bicycle,"
she said. "We aren't here to scare people, but they have to be safe."

Since she began in her position four years ago, Jennings said she has
seen more people biking, as well as more bike lanes and programs for
bicyclists.
Mike Kruger - 25 Jul 2005 03:33 GMT
Troll alert:
1. Suggestive e-mail handle. Laura Bush's driving record is
old news.
2. Posted to multiple groups.
3. Use of inflammatory term "criminal". Running a red light in
any vehicle is not a "criminal" offense.
David W. Poole, Jr. - 25 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT
>Troll alert:
>1. Suggestive e-mail handle. Laura Bush's driving record is
>old news.
>2. Posted to multiple groups.
>3. Use of inflammatory term "criminal". Running a red light in
>any vehicle is not a "criminal" offense.

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" has spammed:
alt.conspiracy
alt.fan.howard-stern
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
alt.nuke.the.usa
alt.politics
alt.politics.bush
alt.politics.democrats.d
alt.politics.usa
alt.politics.usa.republican
alt.prisons
alt.true-crime
misc.invest.stocks
misc.transport.road
nj.politics
rec.autos.driving
rec.bicycles.misc
rec.motorcycles.dirt
rec.sport.baseball
rec.sport.golf
soc.culture.usa
talk.politics.misc
alt.usenet.kooks

Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend (Xeton2001@yahoo.com)'s words of
wisdom, love, and respect (spelling and grammatical errors left
intact)

the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. I get
RESPECT now.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

Fork the dictionary. You've got your definitions and we've got ours.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/a74373e47d63
8020?hl=en

STFU YOU HATEFILLED TROLL.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.sport.golf/msg/4bafc59af1481a15?hl=en

Fork you, beyatch. I'm the greatest troll that ever lived!!!! I'm the
world's champ at infuriating all these pschopathic car loonies. HAHAHA
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/msg/8316b755126bd447

Being a troll is an honorable life.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/c795f38d501be2d8?hl=en&

I wish everyone involved in this "accident" had died.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/5f4bfd6988914951?hl=en

I don't care who i kill; it's just an accident.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/79da070478765cee

Driving twenty year old beaters doesn't keep me up to date. Anyway
it's a stupid idea.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/ff331395cfc7b81b?hl=en

Screw driver training and courtesy.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/d4aaae4439d8c383

Hey dood. I've been a US senator since 98! You mean you didn't know
that???
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/2f1dd067aa0af690

I never voted in my life, you lying whore. All elections are rigged.
The globalists rigged this one by paying kerry not to attack bush.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/87a31e73cec1db38

It's all about money. Most organ transplants are unnecessary but
doctors make a fortune off them so we have them.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/19e5ff027e51
bd5a?hl=en

That "microphone" could have been filled with battery acid. Cruise
should have pulled a knife and slit the guy's guts out.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/msg/84af48b0cba14e15?hl=en

Put AEOS on the list too. It came out with great earnings and guidance
today and yet went down 7% on very heavy volume. When a stock sells
off on good news, it's going much lower.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.invest.stocks/msg/1a9e462f5ff431de?hl=en

Of course he does. With a name like roger, you know he's a pervert.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/38c4ddd6a5640c4a?hl=en

What is the P&G logo?. I just went to their WS and didn't see any.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.abortion/msg/9acb6a6cd49d23aa?hl=en

Hey stupid. I told you the other day to stop using the phrase
"conspiracy theorist". We're gover-media skeptics.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/402c7cb69523
57e9?hl=en

There's not a shred of evidence that the jerries murdered anything
close to 7 million jooz. Another monstrous lie just like the 9-11
official story.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/3650866dc7ecbadc

All his amnesty talk puzzled me because most conservatives are
hatefilled racists and don't want the greaseballs in this country.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/172c99cba6ba
cc3c?hl=en

You're crazy. There will be a draft. Bush is gonna stage another 9-11
type event and then say we have no choice but to go to war against
every muslim nation. And democrats will say nothing.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/b4a8ea8427fdf968

You are an ignoramus. 9-11 was an inside job. That's for sure.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/d4b6e83b246dae5
e?hl=en

The issue is the psychopath doing 60 mph OVER THE LIMIT!!!!!!!!. This
guy is a murderer and i want him locked up anyway they can do it.
Three cheers for the cops.
: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=780ea958.0411162236.1a4d23a5%40posting.goog
le.com

Market economy???? HAHAHAHA. Prices are whatever the monopolists want
to charge.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/23c9a9e267ecc08
f?hl=en

If you speed loons would just slow down we wouldn't have a problem.
drive them until the holes get too big for that tire-in-a-can stuff to
work. Then do what I do and go to pep boys and get a set of used
retreads for $50 and repeat.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/dbe7ec33863c0fc4?hl=en

The Federal Reserve is not a branch of the govt; it's a group of
private banks and borrowing from them means the taxpayers have to pay
the interest to the banks. This has been going on for nearly a hundred
years and it's just stealing from the public and giving to the
bankers. JUST PRINT THE DAMN MONEY.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/f15b1f7d7ea0dfe2

I'm not talking about increasing the money supply; just replacing
borrowed money with printed money.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/760bbaea47e5f5f9

I know what you mean, dood. I did 5 years in the can myself for
beating the crap out of a half-dozen faggot gun loonies i caught
raping a collie and I couldn't handle the food either. Goddam beets
with every meal. Ended up eating nothing but cans of tuna i bought at
the commy.
: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&edition=us&selm=780e
a958.0411242021.7b529c17%40posting.google.com

I don't think knife bans will ever happen, since knives are so damn
easy to make. I remember when i was in prison for beating up a dozen
gun loonies and we used to melt down a thousand or so aspirin tablets
into a thick goo and then let it harden into a knife shape which we
sharpened against the concrete floor. Anybody can make a knife
anywhere out of anything.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.rush-limbaugh/msg/018c5bbd64dd19ac

GODDAMMIT - STOP SENDING MESSAGES TO MORE THAN FIVE GROUPS
Google won't allow more than five. It's not my job to delete excessive
group listings but i seem to spend half my life doing that. OBEY THE
RULES, YOU BUTTHOLES!!!!
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/c3d2661d3c6734ed

I am not paid to delete the excessive newsgroups you clowns are
posting to. Obey the rules or GTF out of here!!!!
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/f5c7a53c81f28cdf

Tires don't blow out anymore.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/9a619fee7f463fc2

LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
LAURABUSH LAURABUSH LAURABUSH
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/b9727d351b4be64a

Bush is dictator and that means he has to take the blame for
everything.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/a2d35f67fd7b6003

Has he killed as many people as Laura Bush?
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.flame.niggers/msg/c2ff1fca08982a38

You don't know what you're talking about, dood. AIDS is an american
bioweapon developed by americans so that blacks would be esp
susceptible to it.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.sport.baseball/msg/cd9d112311697712

She knows it won't matter. Blake is white so the media will insist on
a not guilty verdict.
:http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/msg/59c74805c56a5747

YOu stupid lying shithead. All bush has accomplished in AFG is to make
it the world's leading heroin supplier.
And BTW it wasn't a war. It was a massacre against a defenseless
nation that never did anything to us.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.bush/msg/29a86842abe0d9d6

She's just damn lucky the press is owned by the GOP and doesn't
crucify her for vehicular manslaughter like they've done to ted
kennedy for 35 years.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.republicans/msg/cac630fd8aec9a63

I'm saying that bush obviously doesn't want to catch OBL. Not now that
the election is over, anyway.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/46a00a246987524f

You're crazy, dood. Google is a super rw org and they censor liberals.
RW posters here get away with everything while libs have to be choir
boys.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.prophecies.nostradamus/msg/ca35950242741f13

That's why so many legal scholars think republicans should be banned
from juries. Anyone who'd vote for a man who lied us into war is too
dumb to sit on a jury.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/msg/4dc8560247663014

Wouldn't have mattered if hitty had one. He took his orders from the
same organization that roosevelt did and bush does today.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/cd58ee450b438b19

You can't even lie any good. No where in the country are cops issued
crown victorias.
: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&edition=us&selm=780e
a958.0410112125.4b572994%40posting.google.com

i'm sure jeffrey dahmer also objects to big daddy govt telling him he
can't kill people anymore.
: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1665104637d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=o
ff&edition=us&selm=780ea958.0410311919.5f4893f4%40posting.google.com

At first i thought the tars had been slashed but no, the tars were
fine
: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&edition=us&selm=780e
a958.0410311926.d89b941%40posting.google.com

I hate cell phone drivers but at least this gal had the sense to drive
slowly while yakking.
: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&edition=us&selm=780e
a958.0411231910.47c6ceb7%40posting.google.com

Yes, but never deliberately. In fact i got a speeding ticket about 5
years ago for doing 41 in a 25. I just about kicked the cops teeth in
cause i was sure he was lying. No way the SL on this wide open stretch
could be 25, i thought. Turns out the cop was right. No complaints
from me then. I should have known the law.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.autos/msg/b140009050c624a9

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/hornsey/515/Xeton2001IsAMoron.html

---

( the following contains part of one of Judy's posts, which would not
otherwise
be available due to Judy's use of the X-No-Archive bit)
>>>Of course, they're anti-safety devices!!! Why would anyone think
>>>otherwise, loonball???. I wish you'd get off this board - you make us
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Got it? So many loons in school made fun of me!!!
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/36b69ad3f5e8013a?hl=en

( the following contains part of one of Judy's posts, which would not
otherwise
be available due to Judy's use of the X-No-Archive bit)
> That's the way it should be.  In fact even having a RD in your car
>should result in mandatory and permanent loss of DL. Why do you need a
>device whose only function is to help you commit a crime that murders
>thousands of americans a year.  URAPSYCHOPATH
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/56c432d3f6f9a6fe?dmode
=source&hl=en

Straw man????  If you saw some black guy on crack with a gun, you'd go
ballistic.  But alkies with guns is ok with you cause alcohol is YOUR
drug.  URA STUPID ILLOGICAL HYPOCRITE.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.politics.guns/msg/c59a4f089df6ecfa?hl=en

We don't need safer cars and roads.   The incredible highway carnage
is entirely due to reckless drivers like you.  URAMURDERER.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.legal/msg/3352db7c732fd7f1?hl=en

HUH???  The cops plant the gun on him and you still say he deserved 55
years.  URAPSYCHO
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/ac09b1777ac5
a5ce?hl=en
Pooh Bear - 25 Jul 2005 19:56 GMT
> 3. Use of inflammatory term "criminal". Running a red light in
> any vehicle is not a "criminal" offense.

Is breaking a law not 'criminal' ?

Graham
Garth Almgren - 25 Jul 2005 20:35 GMT
>>3. Use of inflammatory term "criminal". Running a red light in
>>any vehicle is not a "criminal" offense.
>
> Is breaking a law not 'criminal' ?

Depends on the law. Traffic violations have been largely decriminalized,
making them civil offenses, not criminal ones.

Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Tom Keats - 25 Jul 2005 21:28 GMT
>> 3. Use of inflammatory term "criminal". Running a red light in
>> any vehicle is not a "criminal" offense.
>
> Is breaking a law not 'criminal' ?

Not always.  In the context of this particular topic we're
mainly talking about /infractions/, rather than misdemeanor/
summary conviction offenses or felony/indictable offenses:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infraction

cheers,
    Tom

Signature

--   Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Scott en Aztlán - 26 Jul 2005 04:18 GMT
>Troll alert:
>1. Suggestive e-mail handle. Laura Bush's driving record is
>old news.
>2. Posted to multiple groups.
>3. Use of inflammatory term "criminal". Running a red light in
>any vehicle is not a "criminal" offense.

Aunt Judy is a troll? Wow, nothing gets past you, Mike...
Aunt Judy likes it in the rear - 26 Jul 2005 06:23 GMT
> >Troll alert:
> >1. Suggestive e-mail handle. Laura Bush's driving record is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Aunt Judy is a troll? Wow, nothing gets past you, Mike...

Who is this "Aunt Judy" of which you write?
Tom Keats - 25 Jul 2005 03:35 GMT
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0507200234jul20,1,5918660.story?col
l=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

...

> Police spent six hours Tuesday on bike patrol in Lakeview, giving out
> 37 warnings to bicyclists for running red lights, riding on sidewalks
> and, indeed, going the wrong direction on a one-way street. Next
> month, police will start handing out tickets, with fines that range
> from $25 to $250.

...

What a wasteful misplacement of time & resources.
Such efforts would be much better spent on
dangerous vehicles and the people who drive them.

Signature

--   Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Conservative Ideals - 25 Jul 2005 16:37 GMT
Signature

Visit my Blog "Conservative Ideals" at:
http://jaredp.blogspot.com/

>> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0507200234jul20,1,5918660.story?col
l=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Such efforts would be much better spent on
> dangerous vehicles and the people who drive them.

I disagree - in any accident involving a bike and a car, the car is the more
dangerous vehicle - but that doesn't mean the car is at fault.  I don't
think there should be a special bike patrol as I agree that that is low
yield, but I do believe that if bicyclists violate the law they should be
fined just as any motor vehicle driver would be.

And I think drunk drivers should pay a $10,000 fine minimum and lose all
driving privileges - that should make our street patrols completely
self-sufficient.
Scott en Aztlán - 26 Jul 2005 04:40 GMT
Sorry, but top-posted .signatures are an instant trip into my
killfile. You have Baxter to thank for that. ;)
Tom Keats - 26 Jul 2005 05:28 GMT
> Sorry, but top-posted .signatures are an instant trip into my
> killfile. You have Baxter to thank for that. ;)

"Conservative Ideals" wasn't replying to you,
so don't worry about it.

PS: I love you.  Let's get it on.

Signature

--   Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Scott en Aztlán - 26 Jul 2005 15:07 GMT
>> Sorry, but top-posted .signatures are an instant trip into my
>> killfile. You have Baxter to thank for that. ;)
>
>"Conservative Ideals" wasn't replying to you,
>so don't worry about it.

This is a group discussion; his reply was to everyone.

>PS: I love you.  Let's get it on.

Sorry, I'm taken. However, I hear Aunt Judy is still single...
Conservative Ideals - 26 Jul 2005 19:07 GMT
Signature

Visit my Blog "Conservative Ideals" at:
http://jaredp.blogspot.com/

>>> Sorry, but top-posted .signatures are an instant trip into my
>>> killfile. You have Baxter to thank for that. ;)
>>
>>"Conservative Ideals" wasn't replying to you,
>>so don't worry about it.

Just to clarify the issue - I use Outlook express - when I reply to a
message it assumes that my reply is going to be above the message that I'm
replying to, and it places the signature at the bottom of where my reply
should be.  When I scroll down and intersperse my comments with the original
post my and don't top post my signature is up there all by itself.

Personally I don't see a problem with it and so will not change because some
complete stranger does.

...
Just zis Guy, you know? - 26 Jul 2005 20:43 GMT
I submit that on or about Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:07:26 -0600, the person
known to the court as "Conservative Ideals"
<conservativeideals@conservativeideals.org> made a statement
(<IcCdnSdvw9BD5nvfRVn-tQ@giganews.com> in Your Honour's bundle) to the
following effect:

>Just to clarify the issue - I use Outlook express - when I reply to a
>message it assumes that my reply is going to be above the message that I'm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Personally I don't see a problem with it and so will not change because some
>complete stranger does.

OK, then read the RFCs, noting in particular the meaning of the sigsep
(-- ).  It is an actual problem, not just a nitpick.

OE-QuoteFix will sort out this little problem for you at no cost.

As will Forté Free Agent :-)

Guy
Signature

May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Conservative Ideals - 26 Jul 2005 21:35 GMT
Signature

Visit my Blog "Conservative Ideals" at:
http://jaredp.blogspot.com/

>I submit that on or about Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:07:26 -0600, the person
> known to the court as "Conservative Ideals"
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> OE-QuoteFix will sort out this little problem for you at no cost.

I went to RFC-Edtitor.org and didn't see anything on the issue.  Again, I
don't see the problem - if you or anyone wants to plonk my posts because of
it, by all means do so.  From what I did read, the RFCs are standards,
proposals, and opinions, not law.
Just zis Guy, you know? - 26 Jul 2005 22:18 GMT
I submit that on or about Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:35:34 -0600, the person
known to the court as "Conservative Ideals"
<conservativeideals@conservativeideals.org> made a statement
(<356dnR5rOYwLA3vfRVn-iw@giganews.com> in Your Honour's bundle) to the
following effect:

>I went to RFC-Edtitor.org and didn't see anything on the issue.  Again, I
>don't see the problem - if you or anyone wants to plonk my posts because of
>it, by all means do so.  From what I did read, the RFCs are standards,
>proposals, and opinions, not law.

Standards, that's right.  And we have standards because... well, you
figure it out.

The sigsep marks the end of posted content.  Some newsreaders don't
quite what's below the sigsep, for example.

I'm not going to plonk you because of it, but I am going to tell you
(again) that it's pointless to pretend it's not a problem, but a ready
solution is available in OE-Quotefix, an Outlook Express plugin which
is free and works pretty well.  It also does cool stuff like colouring
different levels of indenting differently to help follow the
discussion.

You are of course free to ignore these pointers.  Maybe you like being
flamed, I don't know.  Some people take a perverse pride in not
following convention, even when failure to do so makes them unpopular.

This marks the end of my interest in this topic.

Guy
Signature

May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Dane Jackson - 26 Jul 2005 22:04 GMT
> OK, then read the RFCs, noting in particular the meaning of the sigsep
> (-- ).  It is an actual problem, not just a nitpick.
>
> OE-QuoteFix will sort out this little problem for you at no cost.

Now now, if he's content to make his messages nigh unto unreadable
to the general populace, we should let him.  Of course, he might get
a bit lonely with noone answering him or taking him seriously.

P.S. I managed to resist posting a signature from alt.fan.warlord
    as a reponse, but managed to resist.  Barely.

Signature

Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"I was under medication when I made the decision to burn
the tapes." -Richard Nixon, US President

* US * - 26 Jul 2005 22:04 GMT
It's a coward, and a sadomasochist.  
It doesn't comprehend conservative
values such as fiscal responsibility or
respect for the Constitution, much
less preservation of the environment  ...

It's "Nonconservative Idiot"!

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:07:26 -0600, "Nononservative Idiot"
<conservativeideals@conservativeideals.org> wrote:

The cowardly bushkultie pawn uses the above
characters to try to stop those quoting its drivel
in the requisite refutations.

>Just to clarify the issue - I use Outlook express - when I

You do that to confirm your incompetence,
but it's not the only way you do that.

>Personally I don't see a problem ...

Not where you store your head, no.

Either you're clueless about the software,
afraid of the replies to your blubbering,
or both.

You have no other options.
gcmschemist@gmail.com - 26 Jul 2005 23:17 GMT
> --
> Visit my Blog "Conservative Ideals" at:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Just to clarify the issue - I use Outlook express

OK, so you're not all that bright - Outhouse Express is a terrible
newsreader.

> Personally I don't see a problem with it

Of course you don't.  If *you* do it, it must be OK, right?  I bet you
chew with your mouth open, belch loudly in public and drive the speed
limit in the passing lane.

Google search for "oequotefix" to at least patch your half-assed
newsreader.

E.P.
Conservative Ideals - 27 Jul 2005 01:26 GMT
Signature

Visit my Blog "Conservative Ideals" at:
http://jaredp.blogspot.com/

Conservative Ideals wrote:
> --
> Visit my Blog "Conservative Ideals" at:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Just to clarify the issue - I use Outlook express

>OK, so you're not all that bright - Outhouse Express is a terrible
>newsreader.

It does everything I need it to, and it's free.

> Personally I don't see a problem with it

>Of course you don't.  If *you* do it, it must be OK, right?  I bet you
>chew with your mouth open, belch loudly in public and drive the speed
>limit in the passing lane.

I am sure anyone who knows you would be as surprised as I am to see you
critiquing the manners of anyone else.
Bill Sornson - 27 Jul 2005 02:13 GMT
> Conservative Ideals wrote:
>> --
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> I am sure anyone who knows you would be as surprised as I am to see
> you critiquing the manners of anyone else.

That aside, it's just stupid to put a sig at the top of a post.  The vast
majority of people (I assume) use Outlook or Express, and /they/ seem to be
able to place their sigs where it makes sense; why can't you?

Signature

"Too often we...enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of
thought."

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
U.S. President

Tom Keats - 27 Jul 2005 02:21 GMT
>> OK, so you're not all that bright - Outhouse Express is a terrible
>> newsreader.

> It does everything I need it to, and it's free.

FWIW your prefixed .sig doesn't bother me in the least.
But then, I can't be bothered with being picayunely
condescending & critical.  

Carry on as per normal, and I wish you and everybody else
a most pleasant day, in which everything goes right.

I guess cycling has mellowed my own (non-Microsoft) outlook.

cheers, & good vibes to all,
    Tom

Signature

--   Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

gcmschemist@gmail.com - 27 Jul 2005 06:20 GMT
> I am sure anyone who knows you would be as surprised as I am to see you
> critiquing the manners of anyone else.

While I under stand that you mean to imply irony, the reverse is true -
I do not often critique anyone's manners.

Right up until the time they try and defend their ill-mannered
behavior.

But hey, do what makes *you* feel good.  After all, *you're* the only
important one.

E.P.
David W. Poole, Jr. - 26 Jul 2005 06:40 GMT
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:40:28 -0700, Scott en Aztlán
<scottenaztlan@yahooNOSPAM.com> was understood to have stated the
following:

>Sorry, but top-posted .signatures are an instant trip into my
>killfile. You have Baxter to thank for that. ;)

top posted signatures rule! Makes it easier to quote the worthwhile
stuff of the person who posted that way.
Scott en Aztlán - 26 Jul 2005 15:08 GMT
>On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:40:28 -0700, Scott en Aztlán
><scottenaztlan@yahooNOSPAM.com> was understood to have stated the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>top posted signatures rule! Makes it easier to quote the worthwhile
>stuff of the person who posted that way.

LOL!!!
Tom Keats - 26 Jul 2005 11:05 GMT
>>> Police spent six hours Tuesday on bike patrol in Lakeview, giving out
>>> 37 warnings to bicyclists for running red lights, riding on sidewalks
>>> and, indeed, going the wrong direction on a one-way street. Next
>>> month, police will start handing out tickets, with fines that range
>>> from $25 to $250.

>> ...

>> What a wasteful misplacement of time & resources.
>> Such efforts would be much better spent on
>> dangerous vehicles and the people who drive them.

> I disagree - in any accident involving a bike and a car, the car is the more
> dangerous vehicle - but that doesn't mean the car is at fault.

But the Car has more potential to inflict damage, so the
operator of such a dangerous machine has more onus on
them to not hurt anybody in the course of their travel.

Anyhow, it doesn't take "accidents" to lay charges.
I routinely see car drivers commit lots of offenses
every second of every minute of every hour of every day.
They get away with it, 'cuz even though it's unlawful,
it lets the traffic flow.  That's how I ride my bike --
to get to where I'm going, while being mindful that other
people want to get to where they're going, too.  It would
really suck to be penalized for infractions I commit to
keep the traffic-flow going smoothly.

Brent P. is right -- if cyclists did a "work to rule" thing
and obeyed all rules at all times ... it would piss drivers
off, big time.  We've somtimes gotta shine-on the rules and
just be nice to each other, just to let the flow go smoothly.
But there are some cyclists who can't or won't do that --
but those cyclists ride their bikes just like they drive
their cars: without consideration for other people  :-/

I decry the MFFY attitude.  And although I ride bike,
I don't wanna get in your way, and I like it when
you don't get in mine.  We can get along quite nicely.
After all, we're all just human beans.  Sometimes we
do real good, and sometimes we have brain-farts and
we unintentionally screw up.  Forgiveness &
understanding works good.  I dunno.  I've seen a lot
of rotten behaviours from people on bikes, and people
in cars.  But I've seen a lot of of nice behaviours
from people, too.  There /is/ hope for humanity  :-)

I just want for you to travel safely, happily and
unperterbed.  I'd like the same for myself.
I've had drivers screw up in front of me, and
I've screwed-up in front of drivers.  None of
us are perfect.

Like the Beatles song says: We Can Work It Out.
But I don't think the Po-lice can force it.
Cops picking on cyclists who go against "Do Not
Enter" signs ain't gonna make the world any better.
Hell, picking on /anyone/ ain't gonna make the
world any better.  I guess it's time we
stand together, as the family of humanity.

cheers,
    Tom

Signature

--   Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Bo Raxo - 26 Jul 2005 18:44 GMT
> I decry the MFFY attitude.  And although I ride bike,
> I don't wanna get in your way, and I like it when
> you don't get in mine.  We can get along quite nicely.

I see someone on a bibycle, and I automatically assume (though it may not
actually be true) that the person made a choice to take the bike instead of
driving a car.  Which means their decision puts one less car on the road
blocking my way.  The cyclist has *already* done me a favor, and starts out
with brownie points in my book.

> After all, we're all just human beans.

Oh no, you have to earn that status with me.  We're all just animals until
you show me otherwise.  ;]

Bo Raxo
Arif Khokar - 27 Jul 2005 04:43 GMT
> After all, we're all just human beans.
                                 ^^^^^^
Beans?
Tom Keats - 27 Jul 2005 06:06 GMT
>> After all, we're all just human beans.
>                                   ^^^^^^
> Beans?

I have a snaggle-pussed speech imppThThTHThediment,
exascerbated by a vestigal Sussegian (Ticehurst)
accent picked-up from my  parents & grandparents,
and mixed with some ethnic Vancouver East-End-ish
and other influences.

I talk funny, that's all.

My grandfather used to refer to Hawaiians as
"'AY-Wee-ens."  Took even me a while to figger
that one out.  Tell ya this much, though -- ain't
no Scots brogue thicker 'n a rumbling & drawling
bit o' bucolic Sussex verbiage.

cheers,
    Tom

Signature

--   Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

David W. Poole, Jr. - 27 Jul 2005 06:17 GMT
>> After all, we're all just human beans.
>                                  ^^^^^^
>Beans?

Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
the more you eat, the more you poot.

Beans, beans, they're good for your heart,
the more you eat, the more you fart.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
abc@def.org - 27 Jul 2005 06:28 GMT
>Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
>the more you eat, the more you poot.
>
>Beans, beans, they're good for your heart,
>the more you eat, the more you fart.

Alt version:

Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
the more you eat, the more you toot.

The more you toot, the better you feel,
so let's have beans with every meal.
David W. Poole, Jr. - 27 Jul 2005 07:05 GMT
>Alt version:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>The more you toot, the better you feel,
>so let's have beans with every meal.

Had not heard that variation; thanks!
Just zis Guy, you know? - 25 Jul 2005 14:30 GMT
 +--------------------------------------+
 \         2  3  4  5  6  7  8          /
  \     1                       9 /    /
   \ 0                           / 10 /
    \         TROLL-O-METER     /    /
     \                         /    /
      \                       /    /
       \_____________________/____/
        \                        /
         \....................../
John S. - 25 Jul 2005 14:38 GMT
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0507200234jul20,1,5918660.story?col
l=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

>
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> seen more people biking, as well as more bike lanes and programs for
> bicyclists.

Long overdue.  As a pedestrian I've been almost runover by recreational
cyclists and messengers as they run red lights, cruise down sidewalks.
Scott en Aztlán - 25 Jul 2005 15:23 GMT
>http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0507200234jul20,1,5918660.story?col
l=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

>
>Bicyclists not free to ride as they please
>A police crackdown in the city's Lakeview neighborhood carries a
>warning: Traffic laws that apply to cars also apply to bikes.

I'll believe it when I see it. IL also has a law against Passing Lane
Blockers, but the enforcement is almost non-existent.
AustinMN - 25 Jul 2005 16:30 GMT
I see the LB troll has returned!
David W. Poole, Jr. - 26 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT
<snip>

>By Kelly Kennedy - Tribune staff reporter -Published July 20, 2005

<snip>

Well, you know that article's got to be a lie from beginning to end;
it's written by a Kennedy1
 
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