 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / December 2005Saving my (expensive) clutch.
I've just began driving my first manual, and was reading beginner's guides online when I came accross one that stated, "one should never rev the engine while letting the clutch out." And thought, wait, that's exactly what I've been doing. My modus operandi from starting from a dead stop has been to: 1. Find catch-point (release clutch nearly all of the way) 2. Rev engine 3. Release clutch I find this especially lovely on hills, to keep from rolling back when I let go of the break. But after reading this I fear I may be subjecting my clutch to undue wear and tear. Can anyone help? - Ron > Can anyone help? Try this: http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-transmission-driving-technique > I've just began driving my first manual, and was reading beginner's > guides online when I came accross one that stated, "one should never [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Can anyone help? You're not supposed to *rev* the engine. Just depress the throttle slightly as you release the cluth so as to ensure the engine doesn't stall. With any decent size engine the car will pull away nicely from ~ 1000 rpm. No substitute for practice on any quiet stretch of road either. Graham > I've just began driving my first manual, and was reading beginner's > guides online when I came accross one that stated, "one should never [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Ron That should probably read, "don't rev the engine more than necessary..." I don't know what kind of car you drive, but a lot of smaller engines don't develop any torque at all at idle so a little bit of revs is necessary. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > I've just began driving my first manual, and was reading beginner's > guides online when I came accross one that stated, "one should never [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Ron NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. That is what the handbrake is for. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net I drive a rather heavily modified 1996 Hyundai Tiburon. Admittedly one that is alot more than I can handle at my current level of experience with the environment in which I drive. Anyhow, when releasing the clutch to the "catch-point", I found that the car will move forward quite boldly on its own, even up hills (this is how I discovered where the catch-point was). I quickly realized that driving like this for any length of time must be bad for my clutch. But what I thought was OK, was to quickly release the clutch to this point, before giving the engine any gas and releasing the clutch entirely. Because this all happened almost instantaneously. To clarify, the environment in which I live is Korea, coasting backwards in even the slightest can be very hazardous to your pocket-book. But then, so can a new clutch... Thanks for the info. - Ron > To clarify, the environment in which I live is Korea, coasting > backwards in even the slightest can be very hazardous to your > pocket-book. > But then, so can a new clutch... In that case, just use the handbrake when you're starting out on an incline. >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. >That is what the handbrake is for. Handbrake?? What if your car has a footbrake? I've done fine just using the regular brake and some quick foot action. -------------- Alex > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -------------- > Alex Same here. I can't recall when I last saw a car other than the sport types with a real handbrake. I always wonder about that when this subject comes up and also when people talk about using the handbrake to slow down so a cop doesn't see the brake light or using it to make the rear slide out in cornering. Harry K > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > slow down so a cop doesn't see the brake light or using it to make the > rear slide out in cornering. The handbrake is the 'European' name. I gather you call it the parking brake. Never engage the parking brake whilst in motion. It can have unexpected effects ( like the stunts in movies ). Graham A friend of mine (in England) went to a breakers yard and got the needed bits & pieces off a Subaru to install their "Hill-holder" (Studebaker named it this when they invented it) on his (nonj-Subaru) car. A good mechanic who has worked on Subarus should be able to do it - chjeck with insurance company first. <g> Midlant > > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > > > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Graham >> >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. >> >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Harry K What kind of cars have you guys been driving? Every Honda/Acura I've owned has had a handbrake,and I believe other "foreign" makes have them,too,sport or plain old sedans. Of course,I suspect the American brands still don't have handbrakes. Those are just parking brakes,useless for anything else. (what do you guys call "real" handbrakes?) I'm not too sure about using the HB for slowing to avoid speeding tix,or making the rear slide out except on dirt(road rallies) and slick surfaces(ice,snow,wet pavement),as you don't get a lot of braking force with it. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > I'm not too sure about using the HB for slowing to avoid speeding tix, It does work to a certain extent. I tend to use this technique in VA in order to minimize the risk of a police officer pulling me over on the suspicion of using a RD. It doesn't take that long to reduce my speed by 10 mph or so. > making the rear slide out except on dirt(road rallies) and slick > surfaces(ice,snow,wet pavement),as you don't get a lot of braking force > with it. I'd be hard pressed to lock up the rear wheels at speed on dry pavement with the hand brake. > >> >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > >> >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > surfaces(ice,snow,wet pavement),as you don't get a lot of braking force > with it. It'll spin the car though. See 'handbrake turn'. http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/features-2005/stunt-driving/index-4.html I know you Yanks are a bit dumb about this stuff and especially Jim Yanik in particular. Graham > >> >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > >> >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > surfaces(ice,snow,wet pavement),as you don't get a lot of braking force > with it. NO. Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us. > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > >That is what the handbrake is for. > > Handbrake?? What if your car has a footbrake? I've done fine just using > the regular brake and some quick foot action. Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. As the left foot releases, you're engaging the clutch and releasing the brake, all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when starting and you don't roll back. > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when > starting and you don't roll back. Now that is a technique I have never tried and can't really see how it would work. I always used the right foot on brake and accelerator. Harry K > > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > > > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Now that is a technique I have never tried and can't really see how it > would work. I always used the right foot on brake and accelerator. What's so hard to see? When you're stopped, the clutch AND brake pedal are fully depressed, causing you to stop. As you release BOTH at the same time, the clutch takes over and makes it so you don't roll backward. > > > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > > > > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > same time, the clutch takes over and makes it so you don't roll > backward. And right thee is the problem. The clutch is fully depressed but the brake pedal won't even be 1/2 way to the boards. Then there is the problem of the clutch and brake being on opposide sides of the steering colume (if there is one down there). I have never driven a vette but nothing else I have driven would have allowed that procedure. Did drive an ex-works ?mercedes/ferrari? (how memory fades) for a short distance back in the early 60s. Never could sort out the tranny in that. I just came back in trying it in my F150. There was no possible contortion that would allow me to do it with the left foot. Harry K >>What's so hard to see? When you're stopped, the clutch AND brake pedal >>are fully depressed, causing you to stop. As you release BOTH at the >>same time, the clutch takes over and makes it so you don't roll >>backward. > And right thee is the problem. The clutch is fully depressed but the > brake pedal won't even be 1/2 way to the boards. Perhaps he has a bit of extra air in his brake system. And, like you said, there's no way to get the left foot to press both at the same time while the clutch is down on the floor. I couldn't do it in my Audi either. Every reference to heel-toe refers to the right foot operating the brake while rev matching. I've never heard of the technique that Larry describes. > >>What's so hard to see? When you're stopped, the clutch AND brake pedal > >>are fully depressed, causing you to stop. As you release BOTH at the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Every reference to heel-toe refers to the right foot operating the brake > while rev matching. I've never heard of the technique that Larry describes. I was under the impression that it was technique used in rallying. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe But that's accelerator and brake. Graham > I just came back in trying it in my F150. There was no possible > contortion that would allow me to do it with the left foot. > ----- I'm not qualified to write the definitive treatise concerning "heel & toeing" but the technique often involves different strategies for particular vehicles and differing situations... depending on the driver. The long throw of a clutch in a pickup is not an appropiate example of L foot heel & toeing. Heel & toeing doesn't come in very handy outside of racing and it takes a shitload of practice to use it effectively. Using the R foot to operate the throttle/brake was (is?) probably the most common method of double-clutching a downshift for a corner... but some guys heel the throttle, some guys heel the brake. Some guys alternate depending on whether braking into the corner or accelerating out of it seems most advantageous... and that can vary, depending on traffic for example. Some guys heel & toe the clutch/brake with the L foot using the heel for either. It's pretty much driver preference, equipment allowing. But the original posters receipt of advice that "one should never rev the engine while letting the clutch out" is clearly wrong but probably well intended. Clutches are wear items, you don't want to abuse them, but wear they must and will. Practice will allow the observant driver starting from a stop on the steepest of grades to learn to quickly release the brake, disengage (release the pedal) the clutch and apply throttle in a manner that will minimize (not eliminate... [not you, nate]) excessive clutch wear and cause the vehicle to proceed forward smoothly with minimal, if any backward motion. If you drive primarily in an urban area with a lot of steep hills you shouldn't even own a manual transmission. IMNSHO, there's no sense in having a manual transmission in any vehicle primarily intended for use on public roads... but that's just me. ----- - gpsman I have driven manual transimissions all my life. Never had an auto in a car until I was in my 40s. Those cars included both foreign and domestic. In none of them was left foot on brake and clutch a reasonable way to do it. While use of handbrake on hills is an easy, simple method, using footbrake+accelerator accomplishes the same thing and results in no more wear on the clutch than the handbrake does. While hold the brake you release the clutch until it begins to grab, add a bit of gas while releasing the brake and you are off. That description applies to both hand and foot brake. The OP's reference to "reving the engine" has been taken way out of context IMO. All he meant was to increase the gas a bit. Heel and toeing while driving is a totally different thing than starting from a stop doing it. I myself have never been able to do it well, even in a couple Volvos (59 PV544 and 62 122s - both new). I can shift clutchless much better but that is slower than using the clutch. You do have a point about manual transmissions in modern cars. They are just as fuel efficient (in some cases more so) than the manual. The old perjorative "slush box" went out the window 30 years (or more) ago when the torque converter lock-up became standard. IMO there is no benefit to a manual in standard passenger cars. For sporty type cars, give me a manual just for the sheer fun of driving. Now for a PU, I have never bought a new one, always well maintained, medium mileage used. Always I insist on a manual. That is just me and I have been in a spot or two when I would have better off with an auto. Harry K > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? > > Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. I don't know what model car you drive, but I've never driven a model where the clutch (held down to the floor) and brake pedal are close enough to do that with one foot. > Give it a little gas as you normally would when starting and you don't roll back. I can do this even up a 10 percent grade if I so desired, but I just use the hand brake. This is because my routine is to engage the handbrake when stopped at traffic lights and leave my foot off the main brake (it saves the drivers behind me from the glare of my brake lamps). > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > where the clutch (held down to the floor) and brake pedal are close > enough to do that with one foot. My '86 Vette, but I've done it in other vehicles. > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > > >That is what the handbrake is for. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when > starting and you don't roll back. NO. Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us. > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us. That is the way. Just because you don't understand it or are unable to do it doesn't make it wrong. > > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > That is the way. Just because you don't understand it or are unable to > do it doesn't make it wrong. It's a shocking way to use a manual tranny. One slip of the foot and the car is totally out of control. Use that during a driving test and it's a guaranteed fail.. Graham >> > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? >> > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >It's a shocking way to use a manual tranny. Only to those with an extremely low shock threshold. >One slip of the foot and the car is totally out of control. One slip of the foot and the car stalls. >Use that during a driving test and it's a guaranteed fail.. Depends on where you are. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals? > >Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. As the >left foot releases, you're engaging the clutch and releasing the brake, >all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when >starting and you don't roll back. This method would not work with any of the cars I have owned. The reason is that when I push the brake as hard as I can, the clutch would need to go further to completely release. -------------- Alex > > I've just began driving my first manual, and was reading beginner's > > guides online when I came accross one that stated, "one should never [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills. > That is what the handbrake is for. NO. Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.