Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / March 2006
opening door into traffic accident
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roror29@gmail.com - 01 Feb 2006 09:33 GMT Hi all,
I had a accident day before yesterday and was wondering how the liability is determined in such a case. It's in the state of PA.
I was driving on a relatively narrow street with both way traffic, and a person opened his car door on my right to get out of his car. This happened when I was about 10 ft before his car and I did not have enough reaction time to break or honk or whatever. I was under speed limit (15-20mph, limit was 25).
The other person was not eager to take the blame. And although, I am sad for what happened, think that it was entirely his fault. But, I am not familiar how the liability was determined in such a case.
I was thinking in terms or who should yield to whom? traffic to person getting out of the parked car or the other way?
Any advice on this? roror
Pooh Bear - 01 Feb 2006 09:58 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I was thinking in terms or who should yield to whom? traffic to person > getting out of the parked car or the other way? I've heard of this scenario before. I understand that the guy opening the door is to blame. It's simply absurd to expect passing traffic to anticipate a door opening, regardless of speed limit.
FWIW I carefully inspect the door mirror before opening a car door opening into the street.
Graham
Alan Baker - 02 Feb 2006 23:49 GMT > > Hi all, > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Graham I carefully inspect the door mirror, then when it's clear, open the door a little way, then the rest of the way and only *then* do I step out.
 Signature Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
SD Dave - 03 Feb 2006 02:08 GMT >I carefully inspect the door mirror, then when it's clear, open the door >a little way, then the rest of the way and only *then* do I step out. I just look back for a clearing, but I am pretty flexible.
Some days I miss my Beater Convertable that I'd just walk across the seats out of.
Dave
Shawn Hirn - 01 Feb 2006 10:44 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Any advice on this? I side with you, but some how, I don't think my opinion or anyone else's who responds to your posting matters. What do the insurance companies say? Was a police report filed? If so, what does the cop say who filed the report?
roror29@gmail.com - 01 Feb 2006 17:26 GMT I know :) finally it'll come down how much pain insurance company wants to give me ;) as if it's not a hassle enough already.
My insurance company, Geico, said, "from what you have said us, it's not your fault". Ofcourse other insurance co. Nationwide, won't be so quick to make a statement. I presume the other person is already telling them "i was getting out my car and he took my door off!".
I called police because I didn't see we were going to resolving the liability issue among us, plus, when both of us are in a rather bad mood slight diagreement might lead to more arguement and heat up the situation. But, the cop said, because no one is hurt and no one needs a tow we'll just need to exchange insurance information and insurance co. will handle the issue. They did not come to the scene.
Bongo Fury - 02 Feb 2006 06:08 GMT >I know :) finally it'll come down how much pain insurance company wants >to give me ;) as if it's not a hassle enough already. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >tow we'll just need to exchange insurance information and insurance co. >will handle the issue. They did not come to the scene. I have no experience with Geico, but based on their commercials, I wouldn't trust them to pay for crap.
I do have experience with Nationwide, and they are incompetent bumbling fools.
Mike T. - 01 Feb 2006 13:24 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Any advice on this? > roror Not enough information. What vehicle to vehicle contact was made? If it was me, I'd have risked a head-on with oncoming traffic. Better to head-on another vehicle at low speed than to risk running over a person, even if that person is stupid enough to jump out of his car in front of a moving vehicle.
But your post isn't clear on what happened, at all. I'm assuming you took somebody's door off, and they probably deserved it for being so stupid. Still, that was a tough decision to make. What happened? -Dave
roror29@gmail.com - 01 Feb 2006 17:20 GMT The front right corner of my car hit his driver side front door. There were no passanger in either car only us drivers. Fortunately no one got hurt--it could have been some serious injury. The other persons door was badly damaged, bent awkwardly and we were struggling to close that door afterwards. But, it did not come off the car. His door, damaged the right indicator of my front, badly damaged my right fender--needs to be replaced, took my right mirror off, dented my front right door--repair would do, put a minor dent on rear right door.
gpsman - 01 Feb 2006 14:54 GMT > I had a accident day before yesterday and was wondering how the > liability is determined in such a case. It's in the state of PA. Thank you... for having enough sense to mention where on the planet the incident occured. That's 90 points right there.
> I was driving on a relatively narrow street with both way traffic, and > a person opened his car door on my right to get out of his car. This > happened when I was about 10 ft before his car and I did not have > enough reaction time to break or honk or whatever. I was under speed > limit (15-20mph, limit was 25). CA covers this. PA...?
Opening and Closing Doors
22517. No person shall open the door of a vehicle on the side available to moving traffic unless it is reasonably safe to do so and can be done without interfering with the movement of such traffic, nor shall any person leave a door open upon the side of a vehicle available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload passengers.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22517.htm
YMMV. -----
- gpsman
roror29@gmail.com - 01 Feb 2006 17:33 GMT I remembered to mention the state because I was looking for any legal document for the state that clearly specifies the liability in such a case, but, I could not find any.
His door was so much into the traffic that vehicles coming from behind that car were stopping, honking, and going around the door in turn. I thought this was quite strong evidence that he opened the door into the traffic. I am cursing myself for not taking some photos of where his car was :(
gpsman - 01 Feb 2006 17:50 GMT roro...@gmail.com wrote: <brevity snip>
> His door was so much into the traffic that vehicles coming from behind > that car were stopping, honking, and going around the door in turn. I > thought this was quite strong evidence that he opened the door into the > traffic. I am cursing myself for not taking some photos of where his > car was :( ----- Huhwhat?!
Am I to now understand the door was opened before you arrived on the scene, other vehicles stopped and/or "honked" and/or went around it... but you hit it? That's a very different set of circumstances.
You should always carry at least a disposable camera in your car and shoot every frame from various angles/distances in the event of a collision. Commercial carriers always supply a camera in an "accident kit" expressly for the purpose of documentation. Pictures are much more reliable than the participants or eyewitnesses. People's eyesight is often developed to such a degree that they can see sh.t that never happened. -----
- gpsman
roror29@gmail.com - 01 Feb 2006 18:37 GMT hmm.. I guess I am confusing people by saying that. The door opened infront of me fraction of a sec before I was at it. On the other hand after the accident the door remained open. So, people further down the road could see it while approaching.
Ad absurdum per aspera - 03 Feb 2006 01:50 GMT > CA covers this. [> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22517.htm] PA...? Vehicle Code, Chapter 37, Section 3705 has wording very similar to California's, and IMHO aligned with plain old good sense: http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter37.pdf
> 3705. Opening and closing vehicle doors. > No person shall open any door on a motor vehicle unless and until it is reasonably safe > to do so and can be done without interfering with the movement of other traffic {...} Of course, lawyers can dine out quite well over the definition of "reasonable" in this or any other issue, though if it happened just as you describe (no complicating factors such as your driving abnormally and avoidably close to parked cars, or under poor seeing conditions without lights on, or distracted...), well, my personal opinion would be, "Bet he looks before he opens his door next time!"
Depending on what problem you are trying to solve (cops decided you were partly at fault and ticketed you too? defending yourself against the other guy's insurance company? trying to get either his insurance or yours to fix your car? pick one or more) you might find that a consultation with a lawyer experienced in traffic affairs could be a few twenties well spent, even if you don't actually engage him or her to represent you in any further action.
Good thing he merely opened the door and didn't jump out of the car too! (Also a good thing you were in a car rather than on a bicycle or motorcycle -- this is referred to as "winning the door prize").
--Joe
Mark Hewitt - 01 Feb 2006 15:11 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I was thinking in terms or who should yield to whom? traffic to person > getting out of the parked car or the other way? One of the first btis of advice I ever got from my driving instructor. Look to see if there is someone in the car, if there is assume that they *will* open the door in front of you and drive accordingly.
Alex Rodriguez - 01 Feb 2006 17:03 GMT >Hi all, >I had a accident day before yesterday and was wondering how the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I was thinking in terms or who should yield to whom? traffic to person >getting out of the parked car or the other way? The person who opened the door is at fault. It is their responsibility to make sure it is safe to do so before the door is opened. obviously it wasn't. ---------------- Alex
jaybird - 01 Feb 2006 19:46 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I was thinking in terms or who should yield to whom? traffic to person > getting out of the parked car or the other way? Check your state's traffic laws. In Texas it is illegal to open the door of your vehicle into traffic.
 Signature --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault.
Dave Head - 01 Feb 2006 22:34 GMT >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Check your state's traffic laws. In Texas it is illegal to open the door of >your vehicle into traffic. Ahem. How the hell are you supposed to get out of one of these cars with 2 bucket seats and a big console in the center with a stick shift pointing up into the air inside the vehicle if you parallel park it at the side of the road? Izzat another one of those laws that cannot be obeyed so's the state can make some more money off an impossible situation?
DPH
Timothy J. Lee - 01 Feb 2006 23:01 GMT >>Check your state's traffic laws. In Texas it is illegal to open the door of >>your vehicle into traffic. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >into the air inside the vehicle if you parallel park it at the side of the >road? You wait until traffic clears before opening the door.
 Signature ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Dave Head - 01 Feb 2006 23:42 GMT >>>Check your state's traffic laws. In Texas it is illegal to open the door of >>>your vehicle into traffic. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You wait until traffic clears before opening the door. Naw, its not possible that its that simple. Of course you wouldn't do that, you'd get killed, so that cannot be what the law means. I'm pretty sure that it means that you can't exit the vehicle on the side of the road that the traffic is located.
Dave Head
Furious George - 01 Feb 2006 23:59 GMT > >> Hi all, > >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > into the air inside the vehicle if you parallel park it at the side of the > road? Through the moon roof.
> Izzat another one of those laws that cannot be obeyed so's the state can > make some more money off an impossible situation? How does the state make money off this?
> DPH Dave Head - 02 Feb 2006 04:09 GMT >> >> Hi all, >> >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >How does the state make money off this? By writing a ticket and collecting a fine from the people that exit their cars on the left side after parallel parking next to a roadway, of course.
DPH
>> DPH Jim Yanik - 02 Feb 2006 00:33 GMT >>> Hi all, >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > pointing up into the air inside the vehicle if you parallel park it at > the side of the road? That does not mean you can stick part of your car into traffic so you can exit easier. You wait until it's safe to open the door,or exit from the passenger side,no matter HOW hard it is to do. Otherwise,it IS your fault,and citable.
> Izzat another one of those laws that cannot be > obeyed so's the state can make some more money off an impossible > situation? > > DPH You need to acquire some good old-fashioned common sense.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
Dave Head - 02 Feb 2006 04:08 GMT >>>> Hi all, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >That does not mean you can stick part of your car into traffic so you can >exit easier. Who said anything about doing that?
>You wait until it's safe to open the door,or exit from the passenger >side,no matter HOW hard it is to do. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >You need to acquire some good old-fashioned common sense. No, my skepticism comes from a law I know to have been passed in the 60's in Ohio. I'm not sure if it was a state law or just the city of Fostoria, but you really, actually couldn't legally get out of the car on the left side if you parked on the street. You were supposed to slide across the front and get out on the curb side. Of course, that was a law made when cars were differently built.
The thing is, the law being quoted may just be an identical law. It may even have been passed in a similar timeframe for similar reasons. Of course, this law is not now enforced in Ohio. But do I think that, just because a law has become impractical to obey, that _no_ jurisdictions will take advantage of that to write tickets and collect fines? Not on your life. Any way to raise money is "fair" to some of these people.
So, no,once again, I don't trust the government. Sue me...
Dave Head
John David Galt - 25 Mar 2006 20:26 GMT >>> I was driving on a relatively narrow street with both way traffic, and >>> a person opened his car door on my right to get out of his car. This >>> happened when I was about 10 ft before his car and I did not have >>> enough reaction time to break or honk or whatever. I was under speed >>> limit (15-20mph, limit was 25). [snip]
>>> I was thinking in terms or who should yield to whom? traffic to person >>> getting out of the parked car or the other way?
>> Check your state's traffic laws. In Texas it is illegal to open the door of >> your vehicle into traffic. Also true in CA, and in the Uniform Vehicle Code. The traffic has right of way over you.
> Ahem. How the hell are you supposed to get out of one of these cars with 2 > bucket seats and a big console in the center with a stick shift pointing up > into the air inside the vehicle if you parallel park it at the side of the > road? Izzat another one of those laws that cannot be obeyed so's the state can > make some more money off an impossible situation? Either:
1) Wait for traffic to clear; 2) Park far enough from the curb that you can get out the door on that side; or 3) Find somewhere else to park, preferably a lot with diagonal spaces.
John F. Carr - 01 Feb 2006 20:23 GMT >I had a accident day before yesterday and was wondering how the >liability is determined in such a case. It's in the state of PA. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >enough reaction time to break or honk or whatever. I was under speed >limit (15-20mph, limit was 25). In Massachusetts this accident would be considered the fault of the door-opener for insurance purposes.
 Signature John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)
Scott en Aztlán - 02 Feb 2006 06:15 GMT >I was driving on a relatively narrow street with both way traffic, and >a person opened his car door on my right to get out of his car. This >happened when I was about 10 ft before his car and I did not have >enough reaction time to break or honk or whatever. I was under speed >limit (15-20mph, limit was 25). A friend of mine in high school took a guy's door completely off in precisely tjhis manner. In that case, the car was parked on the left side of a narrow one-way street. A man got into his car on the driver's (curb) side, reached over, and flung the passenger side door open so his girlfriend could get in. The door flew open right in front of my friend's Datsun B-210; apparently the impact sheared the door clean off. ;)
This guy knew he had screwed up and was very apologetic. IIRC, the Datsun retained the scars until the day my friend's mother sold the car; she just took the settlement money from the guy and spent it on something else.
>The other person was not eager to take the blame. There is absolutely no question that blame is 100% his. Don't let him get away with any bullshit!!
 Signature What the heck, I'll play too. - Dave
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