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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / February 2006Trucker Kills Geezer Pedalcyclist, Gets Ticket for "Improper Backing"
WTF is "Improper Backing?" More importantly, how do you NOT see a big honkin' garbage truck backing down the street directly toward you? Unless, of course, you're 88 years old and no longer competent to operate *any* vehicle on public roads... http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/ev/02-16-06-8347 13.html Police ticket driver in cyclist's death BY KEN GOZE STAFF WRITER The driver of a truck that struck and killed an 88-year-old Evanston bicyclist last week has been cited with improper backing at the time of the crash on Wilmette's south border. Police on Friday issued the citation to Fred N. Bronge, 47, of 25631 N. Gilmer Road, Mundelein. He is to appear in court March 10. Wilmette Deputy Police Chief Brian King said investigators determined that Bronge had stopped his truck on Poplar Avenue, north of Isabella Street, Feb. 8 after getting lost in the area. He then drove the truck in reverse, attempting to back onto Isabella and head eastbound, when he struck Edward K. Meyer, who was riding his bicycle in the same lane on Poplar. Bronge apparently did not see Meyer in his mirrors and did not realize he had hit someone until a witness flagged him down, King said. The truck carries a roll-off type trash bin.  SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > WTF is "Improper Backing?" More importantly, how do you NOT see a big > honkin' garbage truck backing down the street directly toward you? > Unless, of course, you're 88 years old and no longer competent to > operate *any* vehicle on public roads... > > http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/ev/02-16-06-8347 13.html Sounds like two incompetent drivers. One was attempting to illegally enter another road in reverse. The other one ("driving" a bicycle) drove right into the back of a fricking garbage truck. Yikes. I think it was right for the operator of the garbage truck to get a ticket for improper backing. He was essentially attempting to make an illegal turn in an intersection. He was doing it in reverse, at that. The bicyclist who was killed though? Ummmmm . . . dude, if you ride into the back of a garbage truck that is backing up, methinks you are likely to get squashed. Ooops, too late. Never mind. -Dave >>WTF is "Improper Backing?" More importantly, how do you NOT see a big >>honkin' garbage truck backing down the street directly toward you? >>Unless, of course, you're 88 years old and no longer competent to >>operate *any* vehicle on public roads... Maybe his hands were to weak for him to make an emergency stop, or maybe he was already standing still and the truck just mowed over him. Either way, if the truck have had a backup camera it wouldn't have happened. >>http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/ev/02-16-06-8347 13.html > > Sounds like two incompetent drivers. One was attempting to illegally enter > another road in reverse. The other one ("driving" a bicycle) drove right > into the back of a fricking garbage truck. Yikes. Maybe the cyclist was half-blind too. > I think it was right for the operator of the garbage truck to get a ticket > for improper backing. He was essentially attempting to make an illegal turn > in an intersection. He was doing it in reverse, at that. Where does it say he entered the road illegally? > The bicyclist who was killed though? Ummmmm . . . dude, if you ride into > the back of a garbage truck that is backing up, methinks you are likely to > get squashed. Ooops, too late. Never mind. -Dave LOL. Ulf >> I think it was right for the operator of the garbage truck to get a >> ticket for improper backing. He was essentially attempting to make an >> illegal turn in an intersection. He was doing it in reverse, at that. > > Where does it say he entered the road illegally? He was attempting to turn from one road to another, in reverse. That could be interpreted many ways. It was written up (traffic citation) as improper backing. It could have also been written up as entering the road illegally, because it was not a legal turn from one road to the other. You can't do that legally, in reverse. If either road in question was also a state highway, it could have been illegal reversing on one or two different roads, also. Overall, I'd say that the cop on scene probably wrote up the easiest of the charges he knew off the top of his head . . . improper backing. This garbage truck driver could have been issued a whole PAD worth of citations, though. But his horrible driving still doesn't explain how the bicyclist rode right into the back of the garbage truck. Maybe the truck was where it wasn't supposed to be, but IT'S A GODDAMNED GARBAGE TRUCK, fer chrissakes!!! Even in a dense fog, it would be tough to NOT avoid hitting that sucker. You'd have to have at least 10 or 20 seconds of warning that it was near, even if you were legally blind. They aren't exactly quiet vehicles. How far do you have to pedal to get out of the way . . . 10 feet maybe? (leaving a comfortable margin) -Dave >He was attempting to turn from one road to another, in reverse. That could >be interpreted many ways. It was written up (traffic citation) as improper >backing. I'm still looking for a definition of that infraction, BTW. Jaybird? >But his horrible driving still doesn't explain how the bicyclist rode right >into the back of the garbage truck. Maybe the truck was where it wasn't >supposed to be, but IT'S A GODDAMNED GARBAGE TRUCK, fer chrissakes!!! Even >in a dense fog, it would be tough to NOT avoid hitting that sucker. You'd >have to have at least 10 or 20 seconds of warning that it was near, even if >you were legally blind. They aren't exactly quiet vehicles. And they are usually equipped with loud beepers that emit, well, loud beeps when the vehicle is shifted into reverse. You'd have to be completely deaf not to hear it. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >>He was attempting to turn from one road to another, in reverse. That could >>be interpreted many ways. It was written up (traffic citation) as improper >>backing. > > I'm still looking for a definition of that infraction, BTW. Trucks should not back up into streets without making damn sure there is no traffic. Backing blindly is not acceptable. >>>He was attempting to turn from one road to another, in reverse. That could >>>be interpreted many ways. It was written up (traffic citation) as improper [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Trucks should not back up into streets without making damn sure there >is no traffic. Backing blindly is not acceptable. The truck driver checked his mirrors - they were clear. How can he be held responsible when some senile old fool rides into his blind spot? SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >>>He was attempting to turn from one road to another, in reverse. That could > >>>be interpreted many ways. It was written up (traffic citation) as improper [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The truck driver checked his mirrors - they were clear. How can he be > held responsible when some senile old fool rides into his blind spot? ----- I interpret the report as: the driver had turned R, realized he should have turned L and decided to back back around the corner against traffic to correct his error. That's some mighty stupid "improper backing" even at 5am (time of day was unreported). "Checking mirrors" is not considered an adequate method of "clearing your way" while backing a truck. The operative acronym is GOAL= Get Out And Look. Failure to GOAL is the cause of hundreds of lesser truck "incidents" per week, much to the consternation of trucking companies as they're usually best off paying for the damage out of pocket. ----- - gpsman >>>>>He was attempting to turn from one road to another, in reverse. That could >>>>>be interpreted many ways. It was written up (traffic citation) as improper [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > traffic to correct his error. That's some mighty stupid "improper > backing" even at 5am (time of day was unreported). I looked at both Brent's map and Google Earth and the way I see it is that he was heading west on Isabella and realized, when the road ended, that he needed to turn back. He then made a right onto Poplar with the intention to reverse across the intersection and then make a right again to go back. There's should be nothing illegal about that and I've done the same many times. How else is he going to turn around? > "Checking mirrors" is not considered an adequate method of "clearing > your way" while backing a truck. The operative acronym is GOAL= Get > Out And Look. Failure to GOAL is the cause of hundreds of lesser truck > "incidents" per week, much to the consternation of trucking companies > as they're usually best off paying for the damage out of pocket. Yeah, but that might not have helped anyway had the bicyclist arrived a few seconds later. GOAL works best with stationary objects... > ----- > > - gpsman Ulf >>But his horrible driving still doesn't explain how the bicyclist rode >>right [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > beeps when the vehicle is shifted into reverse. You'd have to be > completely deaf not to hear it. Good point. I forgot about that. -Dave > Sounds like two incompetent drivers. One was attempting to illegally enter > another road in reverse. The other one ("driving" a bicycle) drove right [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the back of a garbage truck that is backing up, methinks you are likely to > get squashed. Ooops, too late. Never mind. -Dave The cyclist may or may not be stupid but it appears he was NOT breaking any laws and that's the issue. The trucker was driving illegaly and should have been charged with manslaughter. But then, this is criminal coddler america. > Wilmette Deputy Police Chief Brian King said investigators determined > that Bronge had stopped his truck on Poplar Avenue, north of Isabella > Street, Feb. 8 after getting lost in the area. He then drove the truck > in reverse, attempting to back onto Isabella and head eastbound, when > he struck Edward K. Meyer, who was riding his bicycle in the same lane > on Poplar. http://tinyurl.com/c4zxt Looking at that map I would say there is more to it than just the guy running into the back of the garbage truck. My guess is that the old guy expected the garbage truck driver to do A but he did B and did it pretty swiftly at that. Another situation is that the old guy turned from wb isabella to nb poplar and found a garbage truck in his face closing rapidly. Of course that is my guess, without being on the ground there I couldn't say for sure what caused the situation. >>Wilmette Deputy Police Chief Brian King said investigators determined >>that Bronge had stopped his truck on Poplar Avenue, north of Isabella [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > rapidly. Of course that is my guess, without being on the ground there I > couldn't say for sure what caused the situation. The dumbass probably stopped right behind the truck waiting for him to drive. Then when the truck driver put it in reverse he wasn't able to get out of the way fast enough. Legally the truck driver's at fault, but IMO the old geezer only has himself to blame. Ulf >> Looking at that map I would say there is more to it than just the guy >> running into the back of the garbage truck. My guess is that the old guy [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > get out of the way fast enough. Legally the truck driver's at fault, but > IMO the old geezer only has himself to blame. I had a drive back into me once while I was using the bicycle. Except he did it on purpose. >>>Looking at that map I would say there is more to it than just the guy >>>running into the back of the garbage truck. My guess is that the old guy [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I had a drive back into me once while I was using the bicycle. Except he > did it on purpose. How do you know it was on purpose, did he tell you? Ulf >> I had a drive back into me once while I was using the bicycle. Except he >> did it on purpose. > > How do you know it was on purpose, did he tell you? It was the second act he did to injure me or damage my bicycle the cops agreed it was on purpose. He pled to reckless driving. >>>I had a drive back into me once while I was using the bicycle. Except he >>>did it on purpose. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It was the second act he did to injure me or damage my bicycle the cops > agreed it was on purpose. He pled to reckless driving. That begs the question what you did to make him fly off the handle. After all, you have quite a track record of exercising "your right"... Ulf > That begs the question what you did to make him fly off the handle. > After all, you have quite a track record of exercising "your right"... Actually it was the third thing he did.... anyway... I was cresting a blind hill on a narrow two lane road with oncoming traffic. I took the lane for aproximately 15-30 seconds. While I was in the center of the lane a car approached from behind, once it was clear I moved back over to the right. The driver brush passed me. I shrugged. He flipped me off, I returned it. He stopped. I stopped behind him. He wouldn't move and I wasn't going to give him another shot. He started moving and then when I started moving slammed on his brakes to attempt to injure me with a collision. I got myself centered behind him again and he backed up into me slowly. I moved off the road and he took off while I called the cops thinking he was circling around. > The dumbass probably stopped right behind the truck waiting for him to > drive. Then when the truck driver put it in reverse he wasn't able to > get out of the way fast enough. Legally the truck driver's at fault, but > IMO the old geezer only has himself to blame. What's wrong with stopping behind the vehicle in front of you?? Cyclists do that every day and of course it's proper. I can't see where the geezer did anything stupid. Trucker belongs in prison but it won't happen in america, where coddling of criminal drivers is the norm. >What's wrong with stopping behind the vehicle in front of you?? >Cyclists do that every day and of course it's proper. I can't see where >the geezer did anything stupid. Stopping in a Trucker's blind spot isn't stupid? SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >What's wrong with stopping behind the vehicle in front of you?? > >Cyclists do that every day and of course it's proper. I can't see where > >the geezer did anything stupid. > > Stopping in a Trucker's blind spot isn't stupid? If truckers can't see what's behind them, then they need to be extra-super careful when backing up. Bet this nut was doing 20 mph in reverse. >>>What's wrong with stopping behind the vehicle in front of you?? >>>Cyclists do that every day and of course it's proper. I can't see where [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > extra-super careful when backing up. Bet this nut was doing 20 mph in > reverse. I've seen a lot of trucks with a sign on the back: "If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you" >I've seen a lot of trucks with a sign on the back: > "If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you" Of course, in order for such a sign to do any good the person behind the truck must have enough visual acuity left to read it. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > WTF is "Improper Backing?" More importantly, how do you NOT see a big > honkin' garbage truck backing down the street directly toward you? Backing "improperly" is often a required manuever for trucks. But in this case the driver apparently evaluated his options and chose expediency over safety... and accomplished neither, killed a man and f.cked up a substantial portion of his own life because he possibly felt he "didn't have the time" to drive around the block. The geezer's contribution to his own demise is questionable. Perhaps he came around the corner as the truck was already in rearward motion and, not having time to clear his avoidance manuever, stopped and fell because he was "clipped", or more likely "strapped" to the pedals. > Unless, of course, you're 88 years old and no longer competent to > operate *any* vehicle on public roads... I guess that's possible but it doesn't seem likely according to people who knew him and his activity level. One thing I'm pretty certain of is that you won't feel incompetent if you're lucky enough to reach his age. Like me, you'll probably wonder where the goddam fire is that everyone else seems to be headed toward and why, if they're going to drive so fast, they don't expend more effort in maintaining their own lane. > Bronge apparently did not see Meyer in his mirrors and did not realize > he had hit someone until a witness flagged him down, King said. The > truck carries a roll-off type trash bin. These local-type drivers are often the most dangerous. They're often untrained, the least skilled and in an unfathomable hurry... since they're paid by the hour. Watch out for 'em. ----- - gpsman "gpsman" <gpsman@driversmail.com> wrote in news:1140187162.004886.279190 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: >> Bronge apparently did not see Meyer in his mirrors and did not realize >> he had hit someone until a witness flagged him down, King said. The [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - gpsman Around here there is one company that has a worse reputation than any other for bad drivers, BFI. Big f.ck'n Idiots. This the same outfit that had one of their trucks crash into Logan Fountain in Philly, with no driver in the truck. One of their trucks destroyed a local historic covered bridge when he drove over it. It had a 12' clearance and his truck was 13'6". I nearly killed one of their drivers when he jumped out of his truck (to get the cans) right in front of my bus. This by the way is how I think the truck ended up in the fountain. He jumped out and missed the yellow brake handle. I'm not sure how being paid by the hour is cause for them to hurry. Or did I read that wrong. I get paid by the hour and I'm encouraged to take my time. Doug |
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