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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / April 2006Help me to buy a car
Is there any experiences about Mazda Protégé ES, 2000 automatic transmission. 88 000 miles. I have round 5000 USD and a guy is selling this car for 5500. I am wondering if I should go with this deal? I heard that a Toyota camry can run near 200,000 miles, How about a Mazda Protege ES??? Thanks > Is there any experiences about Mazda Protégé ES, 2000 automatic > transmission. 88 000 miles. I have round 5000 USD and a guy is selling [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks Any car can run for 300,000 miles or more IF the owner is willing to perform all required maintenance, fix problems as they appear and change all fluids ahead of schedule. VijaKhara@gmail.com wrote: > Is there any experiences about Mazda Protégé ES, 2000 automatic > transmission. 88 000 miles. I have round 5000 USD and a guy is selling [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks Any car can run for 300,000 miles or more IF the owner is willing to perform all required maintenance, fix problems as they appear and change all fluids ahead of schedule. Well put. The problem is, even if a mechanic checks out a used car and gives it the OK, there is only so much a mechanic can check without racking up a bill so high that you could have afforded to buy a better car. For example, at 88,000 miles, the engine would probably look good, even if a compression check was run on it. But if it's only had 4 or 5 oil changes or less (believe it or not, this kind of neglect is not uncommon), then you have an engine in the car that any mechanic would likely say is OK . . . but it will also likely need to be rebuilt in the next few years, costing thousands of dollars. That's the problem with buying used . . . unless the seller's got accurate maintenance records WITH VIN NUMBERS on them, you have no way at all of knowing if the car was really cared for or not. If YOU do everything right, you still can't help a car that was neglected for as little as one year of it's life. -Dave > VijaKhara@gmail.com wrote: > > Is there any experiences about Mazda Protégé ES, 2000 automatic [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > it will also likely need to be rebuilt in the next few years, costing > thousands of dollars. Precisely. The problem with buying used is that you can be buying someone elses problem. That's why I'm picky about prior service records. I'm aware of one individual who drove a new chevy pickup for slightly less than 25,000 miles without ever changing the oil and ended up buying a new motor. > That's the problem with buying used . . . unless the > seller's got accurate maintenance records WITH VIN NUMBERS on them, you have > no way at all of knowing if the car was really cared for or not. If YOU do > everything right, you still can't help a car that was neglected for as > little as one year of it's life. -Dave I'm aware of one individual who drove a new chevy pickup for slightly less than 25,000 miles without ever changing the oil and ended up buying a new motor. Well that was somewhat predictable. I hope that individual has the oil changed regularly now. You don't really have to change it every 3000 miles, but anything past 5000 is definitely abuse, regardless of what the owner's manual says, and REGARDLESS of what type of oil you are using. If the oil is guaranteed to last 15,000 miles, that's great . . . but I've never seen an oil that was guaranteed not to get contaminated in less than 5000 miles. Just changing the filter doesn't remove the contaminants, it just frees up the flow of the already contaminated oil a bit. -Dave >You don't really have to change it every 3000 miles, >but anything past 5000 is definitely abuse, regardless of what the owner's >manual says, and REGARDLESS of what type of oil you are using. My last two cars both had computers that monitor the engine and told me when it was time to change the oil. My Acura TL, which used dino oil, went ~7500 miles between recommended changes. My C6, which uses Mobil 1, went 10,000 miles before the "change oil" indicator came on. If you have the opportunity, look into the engine monitors used for boat engines. They use running time (in hours) to decide when to change the oil, not mileage (or would that be "knottage?") Until recently, mileage was used to approximate engine run time on passenger cars, but now that we have embedded computers powerful enough to monitor the running time for us, we can now use the proper method for automobile, as well. Bottom line, this "3 months or 3000 miles" factoid is being foisted on a gullible public by Jiffy Lube and other places who, oddly enough, MAKE MORE MONEY when you change your oil more often than necessary.  SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >>You don't really have to change it every 3000 miles, >>but anything past 5000 is definitely abuse, regardless of what the owner's [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > a gullible public by Jiffy Lube and other places who, oddly enough, > MAKE MORE MONEY when you change your oil more often than necessary. Well, you have a choice to make. You can throw a little more money at the jiffy lubes, or you can throw a lot of money at the mechanics who rebuild your worn-out engine long before the rest of the car is ready to retire. When an engine runs, oil gets contaminated. This contamination starts immediately when the engine is first started after an oil change, and gets progressively worse, the longer the oil is left in the engine. The way you know that the oil is contaminated is that it changes color, going from clear/light colored to darker colored or even BLACK when it gets extremely contaminated. The contaminants in the oil make the oil act like SANDPAPER on the inside of your engine. If you like to lubricate your engine with sandpaper, leave the oil in the engine as long as possible. If you'd prefer to keep your engine running well, change the oil more often than the manufacturer recommends. How often is a judgement call. You obviously can't be changing your oil every day, as then the car would not be a useful transportation appliance. (it would always be in the garage) But that would literally be the only way to keep the oil reasonably clean. So you allow the oil to become SOMEWHAT contaminated before it is changed. Where do you draw the line and say that you are going to stop abusing the engine? Is it 1000 miles? Is it 3000 miles? Is it 7000 miles? That depends totally on how long you want the engine to last. Manufacturers like to recommend long intervals between oil changes so that they can make the claim that their car is easy to maintain. They get away with that crap as most people don't keep a car long enough to be bothered by excessive engine wear. But if you don't trade your car every few years, you'd better change the oil at 3000 miles or even MORE OFTEN than that. Does Jiffy Lube make more money that way? Of course they do. But do you give jiffy lube the money or do you give the money to the mechanic who has to rebuild your engine when it wears out prematurely? Me, I'd rather throw my money at the jiffy lubes. Changing your oil frequently is a win/win situation. You get a longer lasting engine that will probably be cheaper to maintain in the long run, and the local oil change shops make more oney. -Dave >Well, you have a choice to make. You can throw a little more money at the >jiffy lubes, or you can throw a lot of money at the mechanics who rebuild >your worn-out engine long before the rest of the car is ready to retire. So your claim is that you know better than GM and Honda engineers how long their engines can go between oil changes? Fascinating... >Manufacturers like to recommend long intervals between oil changes so that >they can make the claim that their car is easy to maintain. I'm surprised you haven't chosen an even more cynical interpretation: that manufacturers recommend long oil change intervals as part of their planned obsolescence. After all, the sooner my engine wears out, the sooner I will need to buy a new car, right? OTOH, the sooner my C6 engine dies, the less likely I will be to buy another GM car. >But if you don't trade your car every few years, >you'd better change the oil at 3000 miles or even MORE OFTEN than that. OBTW, my wife's 1996 Z3 also has a built-in maintenance minder. The car is over 10 years old now, and we have never chaged the oil more frequently than the maintenance minder has recommended. It's still running as well today as it did the day we bought it. >Does Jiffy Lube make more money that way? Of course they do. Not from me - I refuse to take my car to a bunch of high-school dropouts who will over- (or under-) fill my crankcase and strip the threads on my aluminum oil pan. >But do you >give jiffy lube the money or do you give the money to the mechanic who has >to rebuild your engine when it wears out prematurely? Me, I'd rather throw >my money at the jiffy lubes. And, of course, you'll never know how much time and money you have wasted. ;) SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >Well, you have a choice to make. You can throw a little more money at the > >jiffy lubes, or you can throw a lot of money at the mechanics who rebuild [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > What the heck, I'll play too. > - Dave Well I bought an 05 Ford 500 with the oil minder thingy. Book recommends 5000. Service tech at my first oil change (4,000) told me that the 5000 is O.K. for vehicles that put on lots of mile and in fairly clean conditions. This being a totally agricultural area, it is classified as 'hard service' and since my car gets lots of short drives, that also is 'hard service'. The tech (not the grease monkey) said that I should be doing it at 3000. Fine by me. There is more to when to change than what the numbers on the odo show. Harry K >Well I bought an 05 Ford 500 with the oil minder thingy. Book >recommends 5000. Service tech at my first oil change (4,000) told me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >There is more to when to change than what the numbers on the odo show. First, learn how to trim your quotes. Please. Second, if you change your oil every 3000 miles, you are changing it using nothing more than the numbers on the odometer. In fact, you are defeating the whole purpose of the maintenance minder, which takes into account all sorts of variables, including how long or short your trips are. You're going to have a very tough time outsmarting the maintenance monitor. But hey, it's your money; if changing your oil twice as often as you need to gives you peace of mind, then go for it. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >Well I bought an 05 Ford 500 with the oil minder thingy. Book > >recommends 5000. Service tech at my first oil change (4,000) told me [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > What the heck, I'll play too. > - Dave Trim stuff that applies to what I am answering? The whole string was appropriate. I do believe that I will take the advice of a knowledgable service tech over someone one on usenet. I don't recall his exact words now, but I do believe he said that the company recommended the 3000. You -have- heard of "hard service" conditions I presume? Harry K >> First, learn how to trim your quotes. Please. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Trim stuff that applies to what I am answering? The whole string was >appropriate. All of it? Including my .signature? >I do believe that I will take the advice of a knowledgable service tech >over someone one on usenet. How come you quote my entire message but read virtually none of it? Here's where the targeted quoting comes in: >> You're going to have a very tough time outsmarting the maintenance >> monitor. You see? I am not asking you to take my word for it. I'm asking you to take YOUR CAR'S word for it. >I don't recall his exact words now, but I >do believe he said that the company recommended the 3000. Which company is that? Jiffy Lube? BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! >You -have- heard of "hard service" conditions I presume? Yeah - trying to knock some sense through your thick skull is one of the hardest services I've ever had to perform. ;) SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >> First, learn how to trim your quotes. Please. > >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > What the heck, I'll play too. > - Dave There, I will quote your entire message again just to see you squirm What company?? The FORD DEALERSHIP just as I said. Can't read there Scott? Where did I say that I would ignore a "change oil" warning if one ever did show up. What skin is it off of your nose how often I or anyone else changes oil? I will continue to follow that service techs recommendation. Harry K > > >> First, learn how to trim your quotes. Please. > > >> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Harry K OOPS!! I see that I didn't specify the ford dealership. It was though and it was the same service tech that spent an entire day off and on on the phone with Ford trying to sort out the smell of gas on cold starts (cracked vapor return line). Harry K >There, I will quote your entire message again just to see you squirm a.shole. *PLONK!* SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >You're going to have a very tough time outsmarting the maintenance >monitor. _Some_ maintenance minders just count down mileage. Perhaps their only function is to remind the careless. Better maintenance minders do things like monitor running time, engine revolutions, and/or fuel consumption (perhaps with penalties for cold engine and other detectably severe conditions), so that a severe use vehicle will get reminded for an oil change sooner than a highway cruiser. Of course, a used car buyer might not know whether the longer oil change intervals in the maintenance records are a sign of gentle use or the previous owner ignoring the maintenance minder. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >_Some_ maintenance minders just count down mileage. Perhaps their >only function is to remind the careless. What a pathetic waste of silicon! Which idiot carmakers do this? SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >You don't really have to change it every 3000 miles, > >but anything past 5000 is definitely abuse, regardless of what the owner's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > oil, went ~7500 miles between recommended changes. My C6, which uses > Mobil 1, went 10,000 miles before the "change oil" indicator came on. Would the C6 come on at a more frequent interval if non-synthetic oil was used? If you don't intend on driving the car past the 100k marker, then do't put money into oil changes. But if you plan to see how many century mile markers you can pass, then you should change oil more frequently. > If you have the opportunity, look into the engine monitors used for > boat engines. They use running time (in hours) to decide when to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > monitor the running time for us, we can now use the proper method for > automobile, as well. > Bottom line, this "3 months or 3000 miles" factoid is being foisted on > a gullible public by Jiffy Lube and other places who, oddly enough, > MAKE MORE MONEY when you change your oil more often than necessary. Hmmm, with that logic why not change oil every 25,000 miles and save a bunch of money. Hmmm, with that logic why not change oil every 25,000 miles and save a bunch of money. Unfortunately, there ARE people who think like that. They will put synthetic oil in the car that is guaranteed for 15,000 miles and LEAVE IT THERE for 15,000 miles. Unbelievable, but there really are people that stupid. -Dave >Hmmm, with that logic why not change oil every 25,000 miles and save a >bunch of money. If my car's maintenance minder told me to do that, I wouldn't hesitate. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >>Hmmm, with that logic why not change oil every 25,000 miles and save a >>bunch of money. > If my car's maintenance minder told me to do that, I wouldn't > hesitate. My car doesn't have one of those maintenance minder systems, but I just change my oil and filter every 8k miles or 6 months (whichever comes first). I don't know of any car that recommends only changing every 15k. AFAIK, most manufacturers go with the 6 month / 7500 mile interval for engine oil changes. >My car doesn't have one of those maintenance minder systems, but I just >change my oil and filter every 8k miles or 6 months (whichever comes >first). I don't know of any car that recommends only changing every >15k. AFAIK, most manufacturers go with the 6 month / 7500 mile interval >for engine oil changes. Typical fixed oil change intervals are between 5000 and 10000 miles these days. Variable intervals based on maintenance minders may be longer, though those which allow for longer intervals are more likely to require oil with manufacturer-specific ratings. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >The problem is, even if a mechanic checks out a used car and >gives it the OK, there is only so much a mechanic can check without racking >up a bill so high that you could have afforded to buy a better car. I find it difficult to imagine how an honest mechanic could rack up a $35,000 repair bill. Unless the car was rolled, crushed into a ball, blown up, or had two dead pigs sitting in the seats for 6 months, an honest mechanic can get it back into safe operating condition for far less than the cost of a new car. >For example, at 88,000 miles, the engine would probably look good, even if a >compression check was run on it. But if it's only had 4 or 5 oil changes or >less (believe it or not, this kind of neglect is not uncommon), then you >have an engine in the car that any mechanic would likely say is OK . . . but >it will also likely need to be rebuilt in the next few years, costing >thousands of dollars. That's still cheaper than any new car you can possibly buy. This is not 1977 - they don't make Yugos anymore. ;) SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >>The problem is, even if a mechanic checks out a used car and >>gives it the OK, there is only so much a mechanic can check without [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > honest mechanic can get it back into safe operating condition for far > less than the cost of a new car. No, you missed my point. Good mechanics often charge close to a hundred bucks per hour for labor. GOOD ones . . . the kind that you'd want an opinion from, if you are considering the purchase of a used car. But to really check out a used car thoroughly could take DAYS, as several major assemblies need to be pulled apart and reassembled, for inspection. If you just pay a mechanic for an hour or two, then the checks the mechanic does in that short of time will not be much better than what you could have done yourself. -Dave >>>there is only so much a mechanic can check without racking >>>up a bill so high that you could have afforded to buy a better car. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >that short of time will not be much better than what you could have done >yourself. My point still stands: If you do the inspection yourself, take your chances, and pay to fix whatever goes wrong as it does so, you'll pay less than you would if you bought a brand new car. MUCH less. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > >The problem is, even if a mechanic checks out a used car and > >gives it the OK, there is only so much a mechanic can check without racking [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > honest mechanic can get it back into safe operating condition for far > less than the cost of a new car. Getting it running will probably be doable for most of those flooded cars. Because the cars were soaked there will be a much greater chance of problems continuing to occur. Circuits mysteriously go dead from corrosion, components wear prematurely from trapped moisture, dank odors coming from all crevices, etc. The car may run fine for 4 months then crap out. > >For example, at 88,000 miles, the engine would probably look good, even if a > >compression check was run on it. But if it's only had 4 or 5 oil changes or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's still cheaper than any new car you can possibly buy. This is > not 1977 - they don't make Yugos anymore. ;) The issue is the ongoing unreliability of a storm soaked car. It doesn't make monetary sense to disassemble and completely clean a storm car, and yet that is what would be needed to put on back into the same condition it was in pre-storm. (FWIW the Yugo is commonly thought of as a 1980's car that used 1960's technology :) ) >Is there any experiences about Mazda Protégé ES, 2000 automatic >transmission. 88 000 miles. I have round 5000 USD and a guy is selling >this car for 5500. I am wondering if I should go with this deal? That is up to you. However I can tell you that a Protege I once had suffered from a rather poor gearing ratio. At highway speeds of around 65-75MPH, the engine was reving very, very high. Not at red line, but close enough that I was not comfortable with the wear on the engine. >I heard that a Toyota camry can run near 200,000 miles, How about a >Mazda Protege ES??? What do the two have to do with each other? A Protege is an entry level car, the Camry is one of the top two vehicles made today as far as quality goes. The only one better is the Accord. Compare the Protege to a Civic, Sentra, or Corolla, or whatever the current models are. As far as 200,000 miles goes, I doubt it if the vehicle is driven on the highway. If it is used for around town, there are other problems with wear, so I doubt it. I do know that the one we had required multiple exhaust system repairs when we drove it around town for a few years. ************************* Dave thank you very much for your answers. One more question, Mazda 2000, does it mean this car was made in 2000 or after that? or it might be made in 1998, 1999 or so? Thanks >However I can tell you that a Protege I once had >suffered from a rather poor gearing ratio. At highway speeds of >around 65-75MPH, the engine was reving very, very high. Not at red >line, but close enough that I was not comfortable with the wear on the >engine. Even at 75, it should be nowhere NEAR redline. A normal car with a properly functioning overdrive gear would be closer to 2500 RPM. Sounds like your transmission was broken. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >>However I can tell you that a Protege I once had >>suffered from a rather poor gearing ratio. At highway speeds of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sounds like your transmission was broken. No, you are simply misinformed. Many vehicles, especially Japanese brands with smaller engines, rev high, by design. It's not unusual to see engines running at 3500 or even 4000 RPM at 75MPH, in overdrive, BY DESIGN. My own car runs at around 3300RPM at 75MPH in overdrive. It has plenty of power and always gets better than 30MPG. It regularly gets over 40MPG on long trips, with the engine running at a constant (and cool) ~3500RPM. The redline on the engine is 6000, so even at 4000 RPM, the engine would still be comfortably below redline. There are no mechanical problems, just the way the car is designed, and that's not unusual. Definitely nothing wrong with the tranny. -Dave >>>However I can tell you that a Protege I once had >>>suffered from a rather poor gearing ratio. At highway speeds of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >No, you are simply misinformed. Many vehicles, especially Japanese brands >with smaller engines, rev high, by design. My truck is a Japanese brand (Toyota) with a smaller engine, and it runs at around 2500 RPM in 4th gear. My wife's Z3 is a German brand with an even smaller engine; in 5th gear it's nowhere near redline. >It's not unusual to see engines >running at 3500 or even 4000 RPM at 75MPH, in overdrive, BY DESIGN. Those cars must have wheels the size of roller skates, then. Or 4.56 rear end gears... Simple mathematics will predict the exact RPM for a given MPH: http://www.bgsoflex.com/rpmmph.html >My own car runs at around 3300RPM at 75MPH in overdrive. In order to get 3400 RPM @ 75 MPH in overdrive, I had to plug in a differential gear ratio of 4.56:1. Do you do a lot of drag racing in your car? ;) In any case, 3400 RPM is nowhere near redline, either. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > In order to get 3400 RPM @ 75 MPH in overdrive, I had to plug in a > differential gear ratio of 4.56:1. > > Do you do a lot of drag racing in your car? ;) Hardly. It'll do about 111MPH in 4th (would go much higher, if it wasn't speed limited). But I hardly ever go faster than 80MPH. And I accelerate swiftly, but not drag race swiftly. :) -Dave > In order to get 3400 RPM @ 75 MPH in overdrive, I had to plug in a > differential gear ratio of 4.56:1. My Audi runs at 3000 rpm at 75 mph in 6th gear. The '96 A4 I used to have ran at 3200 rpm in 5th gear at that speed. >My Audi runs at 3000 rpm at 75 mph in 6th gear. The '96 A4 I used to >have ran at 3200 rpm in 5th gear at that speed. Neither of which is anywhere near redline, nor even a particularly "high" RPM. SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >>Is there any experiences about Mazda Protégé ES, 2000 automatic >>transmission. 88 000 miles. I have round 5000 USD and a guy is selling [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > line, but close enough that I was not comfortable with the wear on the > engine. HUH?!? Ummm, the only way the engine would suffer excessive wear at normal highway speeds would be if the engine was not maintained properly. For example, my mother had a car which her husband believed only needed the oil changed once every 15,000 miles. His reasoning was that he was using some kind of wicked expensive synthetic oil that was guaranteed to last 15,000 miles. The one time I checked the oil in that car, it was a thick black sludge that literally stuck to the dipstick like mud caked on a shovel. I don't have to wonder why the engine needed to be rebuilt with just over 100,000 miles on it. But change the oil every 3K and do all the other recommended maintenance on the Protege according to the "severe use" schedule printed in the owner's manual, and it is highly unlikely that the engine would wear out much before 200K, if even then. Of course, by the time it racks up 150K miles, there might be other problems that would make you want to get rid of the car (rust?, depending on where you live and how often you wash it, for example), but the engine should still be good, if it is properly maintained -Dave |
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