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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / March 2006No Use Crying Over Spilt Milk...
...Even if you're stuck in a multi-mile backup on the southbound 5 during the morning rush. ;) KTLA reports that all lanes of the southbound 5 were closed this morning due to an overturned tanker truck. The truck, which was carrying milk, ruptured, spilling milk all over the freeway.  SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >...Even if you're stuck in a multi-mile backup on the southbound 5 >during the morning rush. ;) >KTLA reports that all lanes of the southbound 5 were closed this >morning due to an overturned tanker truck. The truck, which was >carrying milk, ruptured, spilling milk all over the freeway. At least it's not summer over there. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. >>...Even if you're stuck in a multi-mile backup on the southbound 5 >>during the morning rush. ;) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >At least it's not summer over there. And a nice rain came through shortly after the wreck and washed the road clean. Phew!! SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave >...Even if you're stuck in a multi-mile backup on the southbound 5 >during the morning rush. ;) > >KTLA reports that all lanes of the southbound 5 were closed this >morning due to an overturned tanker truck. The truck, which was >carrying milk, ruptured, spilling milk all over the freeway. I'd take spilled milk over the Porta Potties that spilled on I-405 a few summers ago. It was really shitty to get stuck behind it, since it was about 85-90 degrees. The car couldn't get the stink out for days. Dave --- http://www.davidphogan.com/sdroads Amature a.s(phalt) and more! >...Even if you're stuck in a multi-mile backup on the southbound 5 >during the morning rush. ;) > >KTLA reports that all lanes of the southbound 5 were closed this >morning due to an overturned tanker truck. The truck, which was >carrying milk, ruptured, spilling milk all over the freeway. Video: http://video.ktla.com/global/video/WorldNowASX.asp?playerType=native&ClipID1=732 559&h1=3/28%20-%20Spilled%20Milk%20Shuts%20Down%20Freeway An interesting detail I missed before: apparently a driver ENTERING the freeway from an OFF-ramp caused several vehicles, including the milk truck, to spin out on the wet road. I hope they find the MFFY prick who caused this and yank his license... SignatureWhat the heck, I'll play too. - Dave > Scott en Aztlán: > An interesting detail I missed before: apparently a driver ENTERING > the freeway from an OFF-ramp caused several vehicles, including the > milk truck, to spin out on the wet road. I hope they find the MFFY > prick who caused this and yank his license... Oh, I'm sure that the brainiacs in the police (and the carl troller and LBMHB mentalities in this group) will find some way to twist and pervert the facts of the accident to make it a "speed related," accident. > > Scott en Aztlán: > > An interesting detail I missed before: apparently a driver ENTERING [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > LBMHB mentalities in this group) will find some way to twist and pervert > the facts of the accident to make it a "speed related," accident. According to gpsman in another thread, -any- crash would be automatically written up as speed related before he even investigates and no matter what the speed was at the time. Makes life simple for the cop I guess. Harry K >> > Scott en Aztl=E1n: >> > An interesting detail I missed before: apparently a driver ENTERING >> > the freeway from an OFF-ramp caused several vehicles, including the >> > milk truck, to spin out on the wet road. I hope they find the MFFY >> > prick who caused this and yank his license... >> Oh, I'm sure that the brainiacs in the police (and the carl troller and >> LBMHB mentalities in this group) will find some way to twist and pervert >> the facts of the accident to make it a "speed related," accident. >According to gpsman in another thread, -any- crash would be >automatically written up as speed related before he even investigates >and no matter what the speed was at the time. Makes life simple for >the cop I guess. Writing up a crash as being caused by something, without adequate investigation is tantamount to providing false evidence. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. > Bernd Felsche: > Writing up a crash as being caused by something, without adequate > investigation is tantamount to providing false evidence. Since when does that stop the "speed kills," crowd and their co- conspirators in law enforcement? >> Bernd Felsche: >> Writing up a crash as being caused by something, without adequate >> investigation is tantamount to providing false evidence. >Since when does that stop the "speed kills," crowd and their co- >conspirators in law enforcement? Ask the judiciary why it accepts works of fiction as evidence. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. >>> Bernd Felsche: >>> Writing up a crash as being caused by something, without adequate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Ask the judiciary why it accepts works of fiction as evidence. They're mostly former prosecutors. They helped write the scripts cops use in court; it's no wonder they are fans of them. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >>>> Bernd Felsche: >>>> Writing up a crash as being caused by something, without adequate >>>> investigation is tantamount to providing false evidence. >>>Since when does that stop the "speed kills," crowd and their co- >>>conspirators in law enforcement? >>Ask the judiciary why it accepts works of fiction as evidence. >They're mostly former prosecutors. They helped write the scripts cops >use in court; it's no wonder they are fans of them. Take it to an appeal court. Sue the cop for defamation. Justice should not be the mere cranking of machinery. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. >>>>> Bernd Felsche: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Take it to an appeal court. Same issue. >Sue the cop for defamation. He's immune. >Justice should not be the mere cranking of machinery. Not so much cranking as crushing, much like a burr grinder. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > > > Scott en Aztlán: > > > An interesting detail I missed before: apparently a driver ENTERING [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and no matter what the speed was at the time. Makes life simple for > the cop I guess. Harry. Don't be a knucklehead. I didn't say anything of the sort. Try to distinguish between "speed related" and "speed-ing related" crashes. They're different. Assuming they're identical and that one automatically means the other makes people look... not smart. Most posters here wouldn't notice, but a few will. Speed related can mean -any- speed... but it usually means "too fast for conditions" and has absolutely no relationship to the speed limit. Sometimes speed-ing inserts itself into speed related, but only when it's applicable. Obviously, to all but the most sluggish of intellect, they are not the same. I think I could explain the difference to a mildly retarded person as long as they weren't constantly on the lookout for a rationalization and/or justification of their own speed-ing. 22350 makes no mention of speed limits or speed-ing. Basic Speed Law 22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property. ----- - gpsman >> According to gpsman in another thread, -any- crash would be >> automatically written up as speed related before he even investigates [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Try to distinguish between "speed related" and "speed-ing related" > crashes. They're different. Of course they're different: The former is so common that it is involved in _every_single_collision_, and the latter is so rare that it may as well not exist. Unfortunately, the people who collect stats about this kind of thing rarely make any such distinction. Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) >>> According to gpsman in another thread, -any- crash would be >>> automatically written up as speed related before he even investigates >>> and no matter what the speed was at the time. Makes life simple for >>> the cop I guess. >> Harry. Don't be a knucklehead. I didn't say anything of the sort. >> Try to distinguish between "speed related" and "speed-ing related" >> crashes. They're different. >Of course they're different: The former is so common that it is involved >in _every_single_collision_, and the latter is so rare that it may as >well not exist. >Unfortunately, the people who collect stats about this kind of thing >rarely make any such distinction. By what measure are crashes commonly "speed related"? http://bernd.felsche.org/SENSE/speedkills.html About a third of crashes are "speed related" by authorities. Many of those attributions are dubious. Most "failing to give way" type of crashes are attributed to speed. The real failure is the inability to distinguish between the cause (failing to give way) and aggravating factors like "speed". Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. >>> Try to distinguish between "speed related" and "speed-ing related" >>> crashes. They're different. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > By what measure are crashes commonly "speed related"? Only in the sense that every collision /can/ be considered "speed related"; if there were no difference in speed, there would be no collision. > http://bernd.felsche.org/SENSE/speedkills.html > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The real failure is the inability to distinguish between the cause > (failing to give way) and aggravating factors like "speed". That's the point I was (slowly) making my way toward. :) Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) Garth Almgren wrote: <brevity snip> > Only in the sense that every collision /can/ be considered "speed > related"; if there were no difference in speed, there would be no collision. Right! Unless you consider head-on collisions... Your conclusion seems to be that if there are no differentials of velocity no crashes will or can occur. As if some magic force-field will prevent two vehicles traveling at the same velocity side-by-side with an empty lane between them cannot each decide to occupy the empty lane simultaniously. Not with the mind readers of r.a.d. of course, I mean ordinary non-supernatural drivers. ----- - gpsman > Garth Almgren wrote: <brevity snip> > >> Only in the sense that every collision /can/ be considered "speed >> related"; if there were no difference in speed, there would be no collision. > > Right! Unless you consider head-on collisions... No, even then. Perhaps you misunderstood the phrase "difference in speed." Two vehicles with the same velocity going in opposite directions do not have the same speed. They have opposite speeds, which can make for quite a large "difference in speed" when we're talking about a highway. In case you were wondering, that large "difference in speed" is what makes head-ons so spectacularly gruesome. > Your conclusion seems to be that if there are no differentials of > velocity no crashes will or can occur. No differentials of velocity in _any_ vector; Correct. You know that crazy, whacked-out geometrical idea about how two perfectly drawn parallel lines will never cross? Same concept. Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) >> Your conclusion seems to be that if there are no differentials of >> velocity no crashes will or can occur. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You know that crazy, whacked-out geometrical idea about how two >perfectly drawn parallel lines will never cross? Same concept. Doesn't apply on the surface of the earth :-). SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >>> Your conclusion seems to be that if there are no differentials of >>> velocity no crashes will or can occur. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Doesn't apply on the surface of the earth :-). So make it a parallel orbit. I never said anything about the lines crossing themselves, only each other... Though, draw over the same spot enough, and you'd eventually wind up with two parallel trenches, just like when 'toons pace in circles. :) "Now on through the deserts we did glide, a-flyin' low and a-flyin' wide, me an' that Mercury was a-takin' a ride, and we stayed exactly side by side." Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) > Garth Almgren wrote: <brevity snip> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - gpsman No, what we're saying is that many crashes are classified as "speed related" when the driver's speed is NOT the cause of the crash. As you are so ably demonstrating in that other thread. nate > > > > Scott en Aztlán: > > > > An interesting detail I missed before: apparently a driver ENTERING [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - gpsman Since you didn't seem to want to answer this in the other thread, I will ask it here again. Man driving down the highway at the flow of traffic which is very near the posted in this case in bare and dry conditions. He is talking on CP and doesn't notice that traffic is slowing until too late. He rear ends the car in front. Now useing your "rear end" pull out and explanation how that is in any way "speed related". I will repeat what I said in the other thread again also. Any cop who assumes "speed related" before investigation needs remedial training. By the way, trying to use insults is a grade school tactic. Didn't work back then, doesn't work now. Harry K Harry K wrote: <brevity snip> > Since you didn't seem to want to answer this in the other thread, I > will ask it here again. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ends the car in front. Now useing your "rear end" pull out and > explanation how that is in any way "speed related". I dunno... CP man's velocity was considerably faster than the car he collided with? > I will repeat what I said in the other thread again also. Any cop who > assumes "speed related" before investigation needs remedial training. To what "lack of investigation" are you referring? Do you feel reconstruction is necessary for every crash? In the incident to which you are referring... the car and driver responsible for the crash are gone, vamoosed, unavailable. I presume the other car/s involved were moved, probably to the shoulder. So no vehicles remain in the the position/s they were immediately after the crash. OP stated he didn't take any pictures in favor of checking on the possibility of injuries so I assume he didn't see anybody else taking pictures either or he would have mentioned it. The officer interviewed SD Dave so I assume he interviewed others involved and any unaffected witnesses that may have been available. What more investigation do you feel would be necessary? Or possible. > By the way, trying to use insults is a grade school tactic. Didn't > work back then, doesn't work now. I'll try to remember that if you try to remember to not say people said things they didn't say. ----- - gpsman >To what "lack of investigation" are you referring? Do you feel >reconstruction is necessary for every crash? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >The officer interviewed SD Dave so I assume he interviewed others >involved and any unaffected witnesses that may have been available. Clarification: Interviewed me, two drivers, and nobody else. One passenger was allowed to leave by police after stating "he wasn't paying attention." 0 other witnesses stopped to help. 1 was more than the CHiP's who showed up expected. (As a side note, if you witness a collision and don't stick around or at least leave contact info, you're worse than 10,000 MFFY's IMO.) >What more investigation do you feel would be necessary? Or possible. Maybe the phone call I was told to expect by the insurance companies? Or the one that the CHiP investigator would be following up with? I accidentally entered a world of pain in the a.s by driving behind a dumbass. I'm glad I wasn't hit by him, but I have at minimum three appointments regarding this in my next week. >> By the way, trying to use insults is a grade school tactic. Didn't >> work back then, doesn't work now. > >I'll try to remember that if you try to remember to not say people said >things they didn't say. HarryK's quote contained from you: > Speed related can mean -any- speed... but it usually means "too fast > for conditions" and has absolutely no relationship to the speed limit. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Obviously, to all but the most sluggish of intellect, they are not the > same. I think I could explain the difference to a mildly retarded First, "...the most sluggish of intellect..." is an insult, and that's just the first one. Second, why not specify that next time you back up the Magic 65? Dave SD Dave wrote: <brevity snip> > >To what "lack of investigation" are you referring? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > paying attention." 0 other witnesses stopped to help. 1 was more > than the CHiP's who showed up expected. So... you're saying CHP interviewed all witnesses available? Or were others lined up and dismissed by CHP as unnecessary? > >What more investigation do you feel would be necessary? Or possible. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dumbass. I'm glad I wasn't hit by him, but I have at minimum three > appointments regarding this in my next week. For what, grief counseling? You haven't been contacted by anyone regarding the crash... yet you have 3 appointments regarding the crash...?! Discovery Channel? > >> By the way, trying to use insults is a grade school tactic. Didn't > >> work back then, doesn't work now. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > just the first one. Second, why not specify that next time you back > up the Magic 65? "Magic 65"... "does not compute". Harry said: "According to gpsman in another thread, -any- crash would be automatically written up as speed related before he even investigates and no matter what the speed was at the time." I deny ever saying that or anything so stupid as that. The sluggish of intellect or reading comprehension may misinterpret -anything- to mean -anything-... that's not my problem. ----- - gpsman <snip> Garth Almgren wrote: <brevity snip> > Only in the sense that every collision /can/ be considered "speed > related"; if there were no difference in speed, there would be no collision. Right! Unless you consider head-on collisions... Your conclusion seems to be that if there are no differentials of velocity no crashes will or can occur. As if some magic force-field will prevent two vehicles traveling at the same velocity side-by-side with an empty lane between them cannot each decide to occupy the empty lane simultaniously. Not with the mind readers of r.a.d. of course, I mean ordinary non-supernatural drivers. ----- - gpsman > Harry said: "According to gpsman in another thread, -any- crash would > be automatically written up as speed related before he even [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - gpsman And there it is again. As I said above "words to that effect". No, you haven't come out in plain words and said it but you have clearly implied it more than once. The sample I gave did not refer to the crash being discussed but to a real life sample that happens every day. Just like my wife had her car totalled by an HUA driver who "didn't see the red light". Of course instead of addressing that sample or my reply, you did one of your patented "use lots of smoke and mirrors, circle all around it but never directly reply to it" answers. Harry K > Harry K wrote: <brevity snip> > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > - gpsman You asked for an example of a crash -not- speed related. I gave you one. I am not eferring to the crash that has been the subjec tof this thread. In your reply, you go into one of your patented 'circle all about the question without really addressign it' replies. You have said repeatedly that _all_ crashes are speed related and at least once said words to the effect that you would write one of the causes as "speed related' before investigation. To normal people "speed related" means that the speed was at least one proximate cause of the crash. In the example I cited, it wasn't even close. You are full of it. Harry K |
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