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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / June 2006Who was it that decided ...
...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! caution! don't do it! watch out!"? Ivan > said in rec.autos.driving: > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? That's a good question. One reason why I don't use such a signal period. That way, hopefully, my non-signal tells the other driver that yes, I have ROW, yes, I know it and yes, I am going to proceed in accordance with traffic law. Not too sure of the legality of the signal either. IIRC from my GA drivers manual (from several years back), there was a section called "illegal signals," in which, flashing headlights was one of them. One of these days, I'll have to look at a more current one and see if that still holds true. And of course, for other States, YMMV. >> said in rec.autos.driving: >> ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >these days, I'll have to look at a more current one and see if that >still holds true. And of course, for other States, YMMV. Some states have a law specifically prohibiting flashing lights as a "do pass" signal. I don't know whether that is intended to apply only to signals to cars approaching from behind. In some states -- not all -- flashing high beams is illegal as a general rule.  SignatureJohn Carr (jfc@mit.edu) : >> said in rec.autos.driving: : >> ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] : In some states -- not all -- flashing high beams is illegal as : a general rule. Because of its universal meaning of "Speed trap ahead". jfc@mit.edu (John F. Carr) wrote in news:44734c0c$0$571$b45e6eb0@senator- bedfellow.mit.edu: >>> said in rec.autos.driving: >>> ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > In some states -- not all -- flashing high beams is illegal as > a general rule. some states also consider flashing headlights as a warning for radar traps to be illegal.(not that that makes any difference to me) SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. Where I am, flashing your lights means one of two things - "Go ahead" when you're in the dark and you can't see someone wave you or "There's a cop ahead, don't get caught." > Where I am, flashing your lights means one of two things - "Go ahead" > when you're in the dark and you can't see someone wave you or "There's > a cop ahead, don't get caught." Yes, there are other meanings -- "turn off your brights," for one, or "turn your lights on." But in the context presented, I think the most common interpretation would be "go ahead." Of course, this is all the more reason not to use such a signal for anything critical in the first place (such as telling someone whether or not to drive in front of your moving vehicle). > Where I am, flashing your lights means one of two things - "Go ahead" > when you're in the dark and you can't see someone wave you or "There's > a cop ahead, don't get caught." and "please get the hell out of the passing lane unless you're about to pass." the only "go ahead" headlight signal I can think of would be in a passing situation where you let a large vehicle know that he's clear of your front bumper - during the day, a flash of the lights, or at night, a quick shutoff of the lights. Personally, if someone were flashing headlights at me during the day I'm not sure how I'd interpret it. It seems that at least in the US there are very few universally understood light signals; even the "you're clear of my front" only truckers seem to get. nate >> Where I am, flashing your lights means one of two things - "Go ahead" >> when you're in the dark and you can't see someone wave you or "There's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >there are very few universally understood light signals; even the >"you're clear of my front" only truckers seem to get. I suspect this is where the use for turns came from. You can extrapolate the "you're clear of my front" to "you're clear to go". Speaking of cluelessness, I was driving with someone in the middle lane of the Jersey turnpike who did not understand why trucks might be coming up behind them and flashing their lights (the right lane was packed). > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? > If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. Because for instance I'm trying to tell them "there is no need to force me to jam on my brakes - there is nobody behind me." > > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? > > If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. > > Because for instance I'm trying to tell them "there is no need to force > me to jam on my brakes - there is nobody behind me." Or........I can see a whole lot of stopped or very slow cars ahead of me so I can slow down and let you turn in front of me without causing me to lose any time whatsoever in my journey. > > > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > > > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > me so I can slow down and let you turn in front of me without causing > me to lose any time whatsoever in my journey. There is no need to flash. Stopping and possibly a hand motion will do without any confusion. > > > > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > > > > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > There is no need to flash. There's no need to do lots of things that we do, but that doesn't stop us from doing them > Stopping.....will do But much less efficiently than flashing your lights It seems to work in the regions where I drive so all the nit-picking about whether it's universal or not is just that, nit-picking. Accordingly, for instance they can also interpret this as "Go ahead, pull in front of me!" Nonstandard practices result in nonstandard outcomes. > Accordingly, for instance they can also interpret this as "Go ahead, > pull in front of me!" > > Nonstandard practices result in nonstandard outcomes. Well,there aren't any STANDARDS for this,nor any organization to create them. Just think of it as trying to make them aware of you,or them making YOU aware of them(INSURING awareness,not taking a chance). SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 23 May 2006 18:23 GMT >Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn >in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? >If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. You would do so to warn them so the car aimed in the direction you're coming from not to turn left (crossing your line of travel) until after you've passed. Their failure to yield ROW might result in a t-bone if the person who's ROW is being usurped isn't responsive enough to avoid the situation. I don't think it's a standard driving practice anywhere; flashing the headlights, that is. I know taking ROW is standard driving practice where I live, which is why I chuckle just about every time I read of another local dullard who uses their car to commit suicide. --- "Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty?" ~ Senator Ted Kennedy, 1973 SignatureEl Pollo Loco (Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend) demonstrates it's complete gullibility, stupidity, and state of delusion when it falls for an April Fool's joke, hook, line, and sinker: > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/008d032d86999983?hl=en& Ragnar wrote: > Gods, you're dumb. Its a rather obvious April Fool's joke. And you're > the Fool. This is no joke. >Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn >in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? It seems to be customary in the Boston area, but was not where I learned to drive in rural Connecticut. SignatureJohn Carr (jfc@mit.edu) > I learned to drive in rural Connecticut. Ummm, there is no such thing as "rural Connecticut". It is the only state I know in which *every square inch* is part of a municipal corporation. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that) >> I learned to drive in rural Connecticut. > >Ummm, there is no such thing as "rural Connecticut". It is the only >state I know in which *every square inch* is part of a municipal >corporation. 1) that doesn't mean part of it isn't rural. 2) Massachusetts is also totally subdivided into municipalities, and I think at least some of the other New England states are as well. Motorhead Lawyer <88.535is@gmail.com> writes in article %: > > I learned to drive in rural Connecticut. > > Ummm, there is no such thing as "rural Connecticut". It is the only > state I know in which *every square inch* is part of a municipal > corporation. I believe it's also true in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. I do not think there is any unincorporated county land. SignatureGo to http://MarcDashevsky.com to send me e-mail. > > I learned to drive in rural Connecticut. > > Ummm, there is no such thing as "rural Connecticut". It is the only > state I know in which *every square inch* is part of a municipal > corporation. Huh? What does the type of municipality have to do with whether an area is rural or suburban or urban? All of Pennsylvania is comprised of incorporated cities, borought, townships, and a town, but you'd be hard-pressed to say that there are no rural areas in Pennsylvania. Same with New Jersey, Connecticut, etc. You seem to have your terms confused here. >> I learned to drive in rural Connecticut. > > Ummm, there is no such thing as "rural Connecticut". It is the only > state I know in which *every square inch* is part of a municipal > corporation. So you don't know Massachusettts? Every square inch is part of one (and unlike Connecticut, ONLY one) municipal corporations. What that has to do with being "rural" is another question ... > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > in the first place? I would do that just to get their attention,perhaps so they would not make that turn right in front of me when they should not (because I'm too close or moving faster than they estimate.) IOW,a precaution. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? > If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. Here (in Florida) someone just did it to me the other day - flashed, slowed down, and gave me room to turn. > > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? > > If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. > > Here (in Florida) someone just did it to me the other day - flashed, > slowed down, and gave me room to turn. It's also pretty common where I live, in a stretch bereft of crosswalks, for people to do this to indicate he/she is letting a pedestrian cross. > Why would you flash your headlights at a car trying to make a left turn > in the first place? Is that standard driving practice where you live? > If not, I guess it's open for interpretation. It is standard driving practice in New England. It is also used to signal to pedestrians that they can cross in front of you. After moving South, I quickly realized that it is not standard down here, judging by the blank looks on many peoples faces. > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? I don't know, who was it that decided that green means "go"? Flashing one's lights has been pretty universally understood to mean "go ahead" as long as I can remember, whether for letting someone turn in front of you, or for changing lanes on highways. You must be having a lot of near-misses or awkward pauses with this misunderstanding. The only exception I can think of is when tailgating someone you'd like to move. Honking one's horn is generally the way to go if you've got something urgent to express. > I don't know, who was it that decided that green means "go"? Flashing > one's lights has been pretty universally understood to mean "go ahead" > as long as I can remember, whether for letting someone turn in front of > you, or for changing lanes on highways. You must be having a lot of > near-misses or awkward pauses with this misunderstanding. Flashing lights universally means "train is coming" or "emergency vehicle is coming." And when someone puts their blinkers on they are not saying "I'm letting you pass me." We're all clear that we're talking about headlights here. There's no need to get cute with comments about blinkers. Yes, I know what my exact words were. There's also no need to start pulling in situations that are not in the context you described -- an oncoming vehicle turning across your right-of-way -- such as "train is coming." Incidentally, in what situation does a car flash its headlights to announce to other cars that a train is coming? That's one I've never encountered. You go out there in Massachusetts and do some testing -- flash your headlights at oncoming cars waiting to turn left in front of you, and see how many interpret it as "go ahead." You'll probably end up with lots of insurance money, but you'll probably also realize people more often than not interpret it in that situation as "go ahead." > We're all clear that we're talking about headlights here. There's no > need to get cute with comments about blinkers. Yes, I know what my > exact words were. Sheesh, Pete I wasn't talking about you, no need to get defensive. > There's also no need to start pulling in situations that are not in the > context you described -- an oncoming vehicle turning across your > right-of-way -- such as "train is coming." Incidentally, in what > situation does a car flash its headlights to announce to other cars > that a train is coming? That's one I've never encountered. My point was flashing lights one encounters while driving generally mean "caution," for instance at RR crossings or at construction sites. If a car is coming towards me at night and I flash my lights at him, I am not trying to say "drive any way you feel like." I saying "watch out, I'm over here!" Why would the same scenario be any different in daylight? As you've been repeatedly told, it is wrong to flash your high beams as you described. I assume that the reason you asked is that you wanted to learn, and not to argue. If you'll ever drive in a big city like Chicago or Toronto or NYC, you'll find that people use the horn (brief, repeated honks) when going through intersections to let drivers without the right of way that they're to stop. > If you'll ever drive in a big city like Chicago or Toronto or NYC, > you'll find that people use the horn (brief, repeated honks) when going > through intersections to let drivers without the right of way that > they're to stop. Local customs ... I've never seen what you describe there. OTOH, flashing your lights in a give-way situation is universally understood to mean that the flasher is yielding ROW. There is never any confusion between this and other uses of headlights (eg. to warn of a hazard). >> If you'll ever drive in a big city like Chicago or Toronto or NYC, >> you'll find that people use the horn (brief, repeated honks) when going [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Local customs ... I've never seen what you describe there. OTOH, > flashing your lights in a give-way situation is universally understood Yet another claim of universality. In your universe, maybe, but not in the real universe. >> If you'll ever drive in a big city like Chicago or Toronto or NYC, >> you'll find that people use the horn (brief, repeated honks) when going [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > confusion between this and other uses of headlights (eg. to warn > of a hazard). Evidently there IS much confusion as to what flashing headlights means,and that they might mean different things depending on the situation. Meaning to me that I should not consider them anything but an alert,to pay attention for something unknown to me ahead,and to rely on my own judgement,not anyone elses. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > > If you'll ever drive in a big city like Chicago or Toronto or NYC, > > you'll find that people use the horn (brief, repeated honks) when going [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > confusion between this and other uses of headlights (eg. to warn > of a hazard). I don't agree with you very often, but here I do... so I will. But it depends on the flash. A rapid 3-5x+ flash probably means "look out". Slower flashes x2 (or 1 long) mean "I yield to you" and convey no sense of urgency. The regular ol' 3x flash means "C-O-P ahead". I don't know how "universal" the understanding of light flashing is today, most drivers are not focused much on other traffic, other than how to get past it. Back in "the olden days" courtesy used to be fairly common. It still doesn't cost anything to be courteous but most drivers are so self absorbed they more rarely consider helping out another driver. ----- - gpsman > > > If you'll ever drive in a big city like Chicago or Toronto or NYC, > > > you'll find that people use the horn (brief, repeated honks) when going [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > drivers are so self absorbed they more rarely consider helping out > another driver. People use a few quick flashes in my experience to cede the right-of-way. Usually one slow flash from an oncoming car means "cop ahead," or "turn off your brights." If an oncimng car's headlights are off altogether I usually quickly turn mine fully off then on again. >As you've been repeatedly told, it is > wrong to flash your high beams as you > described. I assume that the reason you > asked is that you wanted to learn, and > not to argue. co-sign > > We're all clear that we're talking about headlights here. There's no > > need to get cute with comments about blinkers. Yes, I know what my [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Why would the same scenario be any different in daylight? Because signaling other drivers by flashing your lights is atypical behavior. You don't drive around in daylight (or dark) flashing your lights all the time to tell other drivers "I'M HERE, I HAVE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY, SO WATCH OUT FOR ME!" nor do you see other drivers doing so. So... flashing your lights is not interpreted to mean that, so it must mean something else. Now, it could mean a lot of things, depending on the situation. When a driver is waiting to make a turn across your path it means "I see you and will adjust my path or velocity as a courtesy to you so that you may proceed". Sheesh... ----- - gpsman > You don't drive around in daylight (or dark) flashing your lights all > the time to tell other drivers "I'M HERE, I HAVE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY, SO > WATCH OUT FOR ME!" nor do you see other drivers doing so. > > So... flashing your lights is not interpreted to mean that, so it must > mean something else. Indeed. Maybe a dozen years ago I read in a motorcyclist magazine (note that motorcycles generally have the headlight on at all times) that the author of the letter had seen these headlight modulators that are supposed to make the motorcycle even more visible to drivers, not having one he decided to make sure the left-turning driver oncoming to him saw him, so he started flashing his headlight to make sure, and said driver smiled, waved, and cut him off. The author realized his error, and advised other readers not to confuse manual flashing with built-in modulation. I _do_ use my car headlights if (due to construction or passing) I find myself to the left of the yellow lane, but not high beams and not flashing. Flashing high beams can mean other things in other contexts, like "Would you be so kind as to yield the left lane so that I may pass you" or "Pardon me, but you seem to have forgotten to dim your own high beams even though there is oncoming traffic, namely me, being blinded by them" or "Look out, there's a speed trap ahead in your direction that I've just passed". But in the situation where another driver is attempting to change into your lane in front of you, or to cross your lane, it means "I yield". Signature- David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu> Iacta alea est >If a car is coming towards me at night > and I flash my lights at him, I am not > trying to say "drive any way you feel > like." I saying "watch out, I'm over here!" ummmm, that's what your regular headlights are for, genius! It really is not necessary to flash your lights at oncoming traffic like that unless they have their lights off, brights on, or they're making a beeline for your front grill. > > We're all clear that we're talking about headlights here. There's no > > need to get cute with comments about blinkers. Yes, I know what my [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Why would the same scenario be any different in daylight? My point is, I think you're expecting too much by questioning the logical inconsistency when comparing this use to other lights that happen to flash. Flashing a light is just an attention-getter. The reason for the attempted attention-getting depends on the context. Like a dog barking. The dog may bark whether it's happy to see you or angry, because that's most of its ability to vocalize, but you use the other available cues to know which it is. > My point is, I think you're expecting too much by questioning the > logical inconsistency when comparing this use to other lights that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because that's most of its ability to vocalize, but you use the other > available cues to know which it is. I think you've got it exact. Context is everything. I see this almost every day at the turn off to my daughters HS. This is off a two lane road which at 7:10AM is pretty busy in both directions, about half the cars doing dropoffs, and half commuters going straight through (mostly eastbound). If you're approaching weatbound, you have to turn left across eastbound traffic to get into the schools driveway. Westbound traffic backs up considerably waiting for a chance to turn. It's almost a given that some of the eastbound traffic will yield ROW, and will indicate that they are doing so by flashing or waving. If you've decided to yield, indicating that you are doing so saves everyone time, since the crossing traffic can get underway sooner. Peter Trei > We're all clear that we're talking about headlights here. There's no > need to get cute with comments about blinkers. Yes, I know what my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > situation does a car flash its headlights to announce to other cars > that a train is coming? That's one I've never encountered. Why is there ANY NEED to alert others to whether a train is coming? Aren't there already flashing lights at the crossing?? And if no lights are at the crossing,it's -their- responsibilty for stopping and CHECKING before crossing.(it IS -their- butt on the line,not yours,nor would I depend on others for checking for me) > You go out there in Massachusetts and do some testing -- flash your > headlights at oncoming cars waiting to turn left in front of you, and > see how many interpret it as "go ahead." You'll probably end up with > lots of insurance money, but you'll probably also realize people more > often than not interpret it in that situation as "go ahead." Flashing lights are generally a WARNING of some sort. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net Flashing lights universally means "train is coming" or "emergency vehicle is coming." And when someone puts their blinkers on they are not saying "I'm letting you pass me." --------------------------------------------- What universe are you referring to? > Flashing lights universally means "train is coming" Only "universally" in the ivan universe, not this one. ivan@harvard.edu wrote in news:ivan- 12365E.13144323052006@news.fas.harvard.edu: >> I don't know, who was it that decided that green means "go"? Flashing >> one's lights has been pretty universally understood to mean "go ahead" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Flashing lights universally means "train is coming" or "emergency > vehicle is coming." Where is this officially written,and who officially decided it? I understand that truckers would flash their headlights when a passing vehicle had gotten far enough ahead to make a safe merge back into the trucker's lane. And flashing headlights at an oncoming vehicle -generally- means to dim your highbeams. But flashing the headlights can be used for just getting an approaching vehicle's attention,especially at night. They also may not be able to determine who a horn toot came from,or even HEAR it with today's loud stereos and noisy performance mufflers. People today are oblivious to even emergency vehicles sirens and flashing lights. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > > I don't know, who was it that decided that green means "go"? Flashing > > one's lights has been pretty universally understood to mean "go ahead" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Flashing lights universally means "train is coming" or "emergency > vehicle is coming." That's crap. For example, when I learned to drive I was taught that if you are the first to flash your lights at a one way bridge, you have the right of way over the driver going the other way. Some car makers have a momentary high beam flash function, they call the feature as "flash to pass" or "optical horn." >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! >caution! don't do it! watch out!"? If I saw that signal, I would interpret it as "you forgot to turn on your headlights" or "one of your lights is burned out." > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? It was me. Now that you know... proceed accordingly. ----- - gpsman Let me guess, you also slow down when you do that? Your hesitation and unnecessary high beam signalling will only invite the other driver to turn in front of you. Timidity behind the wheel is very dangerous. Maybe it is a regional habit, but within the Northeast, slowing down and giving a quick flash of the high beams certainly seems to be a universal signal to another driver that they may make a turn or otherwise proceed in front of you. I say this having learned to drive in the Boston area two decades ago and as a resident of Upstate New York for the past 10 years. The idea that the originator of this thread and others are flashing this signal and meaning 'Don't go - I'm not stopping!' is scary. > Maybe it is a regional habit, but within the Northeast, slowing down > and giving a quick flash of the high beams certainly seems to be a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The idea that the originator of this thread and others are flashing > this signal and meaning 'Don't go - I'm not stopping!' is scary. NO one should depend on an approaching vehicle's flashing headlights as any kind of permission to do whatever they intend on doing. It's the *driver's* responsibility to check and make the proper decision whether it's safe to do any driving maneuver;before acting. Nobody else's. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > Maybe it is a regional habit, but within the Northeast, slowing down > and giving a quick flash of the high beams certainly seems to be a > universal signal to another driver that they may make a turn or > otherwise proceed in front of you. I grew up driving in NY and VA, and learned that as well. I always understood it to be a trucker signal; the pass-ee flashes his high beams twice to signal "go ahead, get in front of me", and the pass-er taps his brake lights twice after the pass to signal "thanks". I've always got the acknowledgement back from truckers. Since trucks are the big heavy things on the road, I think that whatever they say goes. Jay In ne.transportation 223rem <223remi@gmail.com> wrote: > Timidity behind the wheel is very dangerous. I agree. When I first moved to MA, I used to get intimidated by folks slowly edging out of a side street. I used to slow down slightly, and then they would pull out right in front of me, causing me to have to jam on my brakes. I used to think MA drivers were nuts. Now I know better. If you flinch, they will take advantage of you. If, on the other hand, you proceed normally, they will seldom cut you off. Same thing with folks slowly edging into your lane to make a left turn in front of you. If you flinch, they will often bang a left. If proceed normally, or if you edge to the left, towards them, they will stay put. Its just a matter of knowing the local, unwritten rules of the road. If you flinch here, you will get cut off. Same thing with red lights. Here, folks go through the yellow, even if it means that they will be in the intersection after it has turned red. In NYC, folks jump the green, even if it means that they cross the stop line while the light is still "slightly" red. Either system works just fine, but if two drivers are using different unwritten rules at the same intersection at the same time, then CRASH. IMO, those NY dirivers are NUTS!! :) SignatureA nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. --Edward R. Murrow > Its just a matter of knowing the local, unwritten rules of the road. If > you flinch here, you will get cut off. I've found here folks here are plenty willing to yield the right of way, such as that left turn situation (such as through an unsignalized intersection, facing stopped traffic) and strangely when I'm at a stop sign (T-intersection) waiting to make a left, the operator of the car making a left onto my street yields to me. And often by using the "Warning: There is a train coming" feature of his headlight control. My new-to-me van has that: if I want to signal that a train is coming I pull the turn signal stalk. I figure it comes from the signal well understood by truckers, and it generally means "I see you and I am yielding to you". (A horn toot may be used, but horns are usually signifying anger, except the shortest of toots accompanied by a waving gesture.) Depending on the light it can be hard to see the other driver's gestures. If I'm turning left and the oncomng driver doesn't see me I have to assume he is NOT yielding the right of way, so when he is telling me that he sees me he is either proactively warning me that even though he has a last clear chance to avoid an accident he won't, or he is yielding. Signature- David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu> Iacta alea est In ne.transportation David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu> wrote: > > Its just a matter of knowing the local, unwritten rules of the road. If > > you flinch here, you will get cut off. > I've found here folks here are plenty willing to yield the right of > way, > such as that left turn situation (such as through an unsignalized > intersection, facing stopped traffic) and strangely when I'm at > a stop sign (T-intersection) waiting to make a left, the operator > of the car making a left onto my street yields to me. Of course. If someone is waiting, and you can easily yield the right of way to him (maybe by slowing down a fraction, giving him a chance to turn) it is courteous to do so. And IMO, when it is raining, pedestrians have the right of way, no matter what. But when someone is obnoxiously edging out, trying to intimidate you into flinching momentarily, they do NOT get any breaks. Indeed, they sometimes get me to pretend to look at my passenger, all the while veering towards them and speeding up (not really...:). Them is MY rules. And I stick to them. Usually with a little hand gesture, or a nod of the chin. But a flash of the headlights would work just as well, I suppose. > If I'm turning left and the oncomng driver doesn't see me > I have to assume he is NOT yielding the right of way, so > when he is telling me that he sees me he is either proactively > warning me that even though he has a last clear chance to > avoid an accident he won't, or he is yielding. Yep. One or the other. SignatureA nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. --Edward R. Murrow Eskwired writes: > If someone is waiting, and you can easily yield the right of > way to him (maybe by slowing down a fraction, giving him a chance to turn) > it is courteous to do so. > But when someone is obnoxiously edging out, trying to intimidate you into > flinching momentarily, they do NOT get any breaks. Indeed, they sometimes > get me to pretend to look at my passenger, all the while veering towards > them and speeding up (not really...:). The Prisoner's Dilemma -- now playing on the streets of the Commonwealth. Signature- David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu> Iacta alea est > But when someone is obnoxiously edging out, trying to intimidate you into > flinching momentarily, they do NOT get any breaks. Indeed, they sometimes > get me to pretend to look at my passenger, all the while veering towards > them and speeding up (not really...:). Ha! I often drop a gear and match speed with them, staying just next to their front fender, while pretending to look the other way, or sing wildly with the radio. Jay >> Its just a matter of knowing the local, unwritten rules of the road. If >> you flinch here, you will get cut off. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > headlight control. My new-to-me van has that: if I want to signal > that a train is coming I pull the turn signal stalk. Why shouldn't YOU be aware that a "TRAIN IS COMING"? It's YOUR job to check,not anyone elses. Clue;It's NOT a "train is coming" signal. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> Its just a matter of knowing the local, unwritten rules of the road. If >> you flinch here, you will get cut off. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >headlight control. My new-to-me van has that: if I want to signal >that a train is coming I pull the turn signal stalk. Does your vehicle manual label this stalk as such? If so, can you scan that page and post it somewhere? I've *never* seen this stalk so labeled. In fact, *every* RR grade crossing I've ever seen is, at the very minimum, labeled with a RR Crossing sign, and most have active lights, and many have barriers, too. Given that, why would it be incumbant on a driver to warn other drivers of coming trains? Wouldn't that mean that those who don't give such warnings would be liable in case the unwarned car collides with a train? And why is such a "universal" sugnal not covered in any driving manuals, or laws? SignatureBill Funk replace "g" with "a" > I've found here folks here are plenty willing to yield the right of >way, I am baffled by the people in Boston who will yield right of way when it's completely stupid for them to do so. I especially hate it when I'm trying to cross a four-lane road (say Columbus Avenue) and I'm at the corner, and someone in the left lane stops to let me cross the road. I'm like -- well, all I need is some yahoo to come zipping around them in the right lane and I'm toast, so I don't take them up on the offer, and they move their hand and I just don't move. Finally someone honks behind them and they move. This city is full of drivers who either grab the right of way when it's not theirs to grab, or give it away when ever possible? It's completely alien and bizarre. Signature-- Steve Kl. > This city is full of drivers who either grab the right of way when it's > not theirs to grab, or give it away when ever possible? Reminds me of the joke: "Once I was riding in a cab in New York City when the driver ran a red light. I asked him, `Do you realize you just ran a red light?' The driver said, `Relax. My brother drives like this.' The driver ran another red light, and turned to me and said, `Relax. My brother drives like this.' "Thank goodness the next light was green, but the driver came to a screeching halt. I yelled, `You ran two red lights saying your brother drives like that, then you come to a green light and stop! What's up with that?' The driver said, `Well, I have to stop at green lights, because my brother might be coming down a side street.'" > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? Actually, that's been a convention for as long as I remember (at least 20 years). Your horn is there for a reason. Use it. If you flash your lights, most people take that to mean you are yielding your right of way. >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! >caution! don't do it! watch out!"? > >Ivan USE THE HORN, YOU FOOL. And i don't mean tap it for a split second. Lay on it until you're thru the intersection. > >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > USE THE HORN, YOU FOOL. And i don't mean tap it for a split second. > Lay on it until you're thru the intersection Gotta ask... have you had an unfortunate bad experience involving vehicular homicide? Just curious, having noticed your incessant complaints having to do with vehicles. >> >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, >> >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > vehicular homicide? Just curious, having noticed your incessant > complaints having to do with vehicles. I don't know WHY -anyone- pays the slightest attention to what this schmuck posts. After reading one or two of them,any reasonable person ought to be able to tell that the poster is a priority ONE killfile candidate. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > >> >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > >> >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > After reading one or two of them,any reasonable person ought to be able to > tell that the poster is a priority ONE killfile candidate. There are some sick bastards out there who have this poster as a "watch" candidate. :-/ > Kevin said in rec.autos.driving: > Gotta ask... have you had an unfortunate bad experience involving > vehicular homicide? Just curious, having noticed your incessant > complaints having to do with vehicles. Aunt Judy is just an idiot. Signature"My dash lights burned out years ago. Just keep a cheapie flashlight on the seat." --Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend, 12 Nov 2005 18:11:38 -0800 Ref: http://tinyurl.com/akxtu Message ID: 1131847898.473454.275...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com > Gotta ask... have you had an unfortunate bad experience involving > vehicular homicide? Just curious, having noticed your incessant > complaints having to do with vehicles. ??? Hundreds of americans are killed/maimed on the highways every day by criminal drivers, you nitwit. Terrorism is a microscopic problem compared to reckless drivers and if you had the brains god give a motherless shoat you'd complain as loudly as i. GITYERBUTTOUTAYERHEAD > > Gotta ask... have you had an unfortunate bad experience involving > > vehicular homicide? Just curious, having noticed your incessant [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > compared to reckless drivers and if you had the brains god give a > motherless shoat you'd complain as loudly as i. GITYERBUTTOUTAYERHEAD If you would get your head out of your butt, or perhaps get your friend's heads out of your butt, you might realize that those hundreds of Americans killed/maimed COULD have avoided their circumstances. That they choose not to do so is not my problem, and it's enjoyable reading about the creative ways they find to kill themselves. > > >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > > >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > vehicular homicide? Just curious, having noticed your incessant > complaints having to do with vehicles. Two words: "cranial injury." laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE relaxed its anal sphincter muscle and released this flatulence in rec.autos.driving: > USE THE HORN, YOU FOOL. And i don't mean tap it for a split second. > Lay on it until you're thru the intersection. Hee... Hee... Hee... I'll keep this inmind while I am shopping for the helicopter grade PA system to put on my car to use as a horn for the next time I get stuck behind someone like you. I'd better invest in some hearing aid manufacturers as you'll be needing them soon... > laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE relaxed its anal sphincter muscle and > released this flatulence in rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > next time I get stuck behind someone like you. I'd better invest in some > hearing aid manufacturers as you'll be needing them soon... That's a good idea! I know it's illegal for non-law enforcement officers to possess blue lights in their car, but how about a PA system that will broadcast the sound of a siren? Might be useful for dislodging some frontgaters. > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? > > Ivan I have driven all over this country and Canada except Alaska and I have never run into a situation, other than a warning that your headlights are not on or there are police ahead, that flashing of headlights did not mean that the flasher was relinquishing their right-of-way. I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in the inside lane of a four lane road and you flash your lights for someone to turn in front of you and they subsequently crash into a car passing you on your right, you can be partially responsible for the accident. (I can't cite any specific example off hand.) Jerry S > I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are > taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in > the inside lane of a four lane road and you flash your lights for > someone to turn in front of you and they subsequently crash into a car > passing you on your right, you can be partially responsible for the > accident. (I can't cite any specific example off hand.) There have been court cases where a driver has been held liable after stopping and waving a pedestrian across an intersection where the pedestrian is hit by another car. I'd think a driver flashing his headlights would be similarly culpable. - geoff >> ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, >> that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are > taking responsibility for the situation. I don't believe that at all;how would anyone establish exactly what you were flashing your lights for? Personally,I would never count on another's flashing lights as "permission" to do anything. I would just consider them an alert;to pay attention,there might be something I NEED to consider. Anything else would be foolish. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are >taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in >the inside lane of a four lane road and you flash your lights for >someone to turn in front of you and they subsequently crash into a car >passing you on your right, you can be partially responsible for the >accident. (I can't cite any specific example off hand.) From a family member's crash several years ago, I can categorically say that, in AZ., that last is not true. It is, by law, incumbant on a driver making a left turn to ensure that it is safe to make the turn, regardless of other drivers' well-intentioned signals. That well-intentioned driver should be ignored, if you can't see what's coming. SignatureBill Funk replace "g" with "a" >>I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are >>taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >it is safe to make the turn, regardless of other drivers' >well-intentioned signals. Massachusetts prefers the "deep pockets" approach to liability, where the jury gets to decide who pays in almost all cases. So the insurance company of the driver who stopped to let a pedestrian cross illegally paid a seven figure settlement after the pedestrian was hit by another car. In many states you lose the lawsuit pretty much automatically if you break a law and the other person does not. SignatureJohn Carr (jfc@mit.edu) John Carr writes (of MA): > So the insurance company of the driver who stopped to let a > pedestrian cross illegally paid a seven figure settlement > after the pedestrian was hit by another car. In many states > you lose the lawsuit pretty much automatically if you break > a law and the other person does not. IIUC it is illegal to pass a car that has stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross (when said pedestrian has ROW? when it is legal for said pedestrian to cross? -- and I don't know how the driver is supposed to know why the other driver stopped) -- was that the case when this case happened? Signature- David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu> Iacta alea est >John Carr writes (of MA): >> So the insurance company of the driver who stopped to let a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >driver stopped) -- was that the case when this case >happened? In Massachusetts that law only applies at marked crosswalks. There was no crosswalk. One driver stopped to let the girl cross. Somebody passed him, I think using the right lane of a four lane road, and hit her. SignatureJohn Carr (jfc@mit.edu) > >>I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are > >>taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > pedestrian cross illegally paid a seven figure settlement > after the pedestrian was hit by another car. Gotta cite for this case? >> >>I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are >> >>taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Gotta cite for this case? The appeals court decision is _Amy Woods v. Roger O'Neil_, 54 Mass. App. Ct. 768 (2002). A $4.75 million settlement in February, 2004 was reported by the Associated Press. SignatureJohn Carr (jfc@mit.edu) > >> >>I have also read of instances where by flashing your lights, you are > >> >>taking responsibility for the situation. For example, if you are in [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > 54 Mass. App. Ct. 768 (2002). A $4.75 million settlement > in February, 2004 was reported by the Associated Press. I can't find any details on it. Some references to it but no details. Gotta figure there's more to it than mentioned above. >...that if I flash my headlights at a car > trying to make a left turn, that would > mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" > and not "warning! caution! don't do it! > watch out!"? GRRRRRR!!!!!!! I hate a**holes like you who do that! Very annoying! Whenever I get flashed like that, I usually flash my lights right back and flip 'em the bird! Some people do an extra long flash, thereby blinding me for a second or two if done at night. Idiots!!! If someone needs to be flashed to remind them not to cut another one off, then they shouldn't be driving in the first damn place! GRRRRRR!!!!!!! Great topic. I see this all the time. Several times per week. I may have even followed along and done it myself in the past, however lately I've been concentrating on not flashing high beams. If my normal lights are already on, I may turn them off and back on quickly to signal a positive (go-ahead) signal. The confusion here I think is that in europe flashing lights is very commonly used, and always means warning. I remember the first time watching Ronin and seeing all the flashes in the tunnel chase seemed weird to me. Now I understand they are used all the time as a warning. For example, when you are coming up on someone on the autobahn in the left lane so they get out of your way well ahead of time. Of course in the US, the same flash is often used to get someone out of rubbernecking the left passing lane, but they will either move over, ignore you completely, or most likely take it personally and start some road warfare...which is why I never flash my high beams when I want to pass someone sitting in the left lane! This just occured last night when I was driving on Rt. 3. A focus was doing a medium speed but never left the left lane, despite light traffic. A big SUV wanted to pass, and after the focus did not yield after the SUV was at most 2 feet from its bumper for a while, he flashed his lights several times. The focus didn't budge. (Now, you potentially have two ticked off road ragers). Meanwhile, I peacefully and slowly passed in the right lane. Of course, in Connecticut, that is illegal, because their law assumes everyone will always stay right. In a perfect world... Î was reminded of this topic with a smile yesterday. When trying to take a left on a busy street in Salem, one of the drivers slowed down and flashed his lights, allowing me to take the left. I waved thank-you and wondered how else they would signal if you can't really see inside if they are waving. >...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, >that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! >caution! don't do it! watch out!"? A flashing headlight has no legal meaning. That is why some folks take it to mean different things. That is also why you shouldn't use it as a signal that means anything other than look here. ------------------ Alex >>...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, >>that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! >>caution! don't do it! watch out!"? > >A flashing headlight has no legal meaning. A flash from behind is a signal of intent to pass requiring the driver ahead to move right and not increase speed. (Not under all circumstances or in all states. Consult local law.) SignatureJohn Carr (jfc@mit.edu) > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? > > Ivan It was Al Gore who invented this. > ...that if I flash my headlights at a car trying to make a left turn, > that would mean "go ahead, feel free to cut me off" and not "warning! > caution! don't do it! watch out!"? That's what you get for making a bid you haven't discussed with your partner. |
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