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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / June 2006

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85 MPH speedometers

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Ronnie Dobbs - 31 May 2006 11:26 GMT
In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.
SP Cook - 31 May 2006 12:18 GMT
> In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
> out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.

A product of the Naderite know-nothings that controled the Carter
mis-administration.  Mandated that a speedometers read 85 and note 55
in some way (usually its orange when the other numbers are white).
Speedshops did a brisk business in replacing these with ether Canadian
spec (which were metric, but still went up to the top speed of the car)
or cop car spec.

Then the NMSL was repealed, Joanie Claybrooke ceased to be listened to,
and TRAFFIC MORTALITY WENT DOWN.  Just like we said it would.  Because
underposted speed limts and over and selective enforcement of them
never saved one life or one drop of oil.

Now the irresponsible voices of stupidity are again resuming their war
on motorist's rights.  Fight them.

Join the NMA.

SP Cook
Timothy J. Lee - 31 May 2006 19:03 GMT
>A product of the Naderite know-nothings that controled the Carter
>mis-administration.  Mandated that a speedometers read 85 and note 55
>in some way (usually its orange when the other numbers are white).
>Speedshops did a brisk business in replacing these with ether Canadian
>spec (which were metric, but still went up to the top speed of the car)

Given the cars of the 1970s / 1980s, were the top speeds of most of the
cars of the time significantly higher than 85mph?  Or were the higher
speedometer speeds just optimistic numbers for people to brag about
(like the 160mph speedometer I saw in a new, but non-sporty, car)?

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Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Garth Almgren - 01 Jun 2006 01:49 GMT
> Given the cars of the 1970s / 1980s, were the top speeds of most of the
> cars of the time significantly higher than 85mph?  Or were the higher
> speedometer speeds just optimistic numbers for people to brag about
> (like the 160mph speedometer I saw in a new, but non-sporty, car)?

Certainly there's quite a bit of the latter, but as to the former there
were few if any cars that wouldn't do more than 85, even back in the
darkest years of the automotive industry. The SSP Mustangs (police
specials) of the 80s came from the factory with a 140 MPH speedometer,
and they needed it.

My '83 Mustang would theoretically top out at about 115 (gear limited),
so a 120 MPH speedometer would not have been inappropriate, but alas no:
it's stuck with an 85 MPH speedometer (unless I want to upgrade it to a
SSP instrument cluster. Which I don't, because a) it'd be rather
pointless, and b) relatively expensive).

Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Timothy J. Lee - 01 Jun 2006 19:02 GMT
>My '83 Mustang would theoretically top out at about 115 (gear limited),
>so a 120 MPH speedometer would not have been inappropriate, but alas no:
>it's stuck with an 85 MPH speedometer (unless I want to upgrade it to a
>SSP instrument cluster. Which I don't, because a) it'd be rather
>pointless, and b) relatively expensive).

Weren't there some Mustangs during the 85mph speedometer years that had
120mph (or something) speedometers with no numbers or decals beyond 85mph?

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Garth Almgren - 02 Jun 2006 03:18 GMT
>> My '83 Mustang would theoretically top out at about 115 (gear limited),
>> so a 120 MPH speedometer would not have been inappropriate, but alas no:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Weren't there some Mustangs during the 85mph speedometer years that had
> 120mph (or something) speedometers with no numbers or decals beyond 85mph?

Maybe on the SVO, but as far as I know for sure, there was only the 85
and the 140.

Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Pooh Bear - 01 Jun 2006 05:50 GMT
> >A product of the Naderite know-nothings that controled the Carter
> >mis-administration.  Mandated that a speedometers read 85 and note 55
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Given the cars of the 1970s / 1980s, were the top speeds of most of the
> cars of the time significantly higher than 85mph?

Of course. My first car ever was a Ford Cortina estate with a 1500cc engine that
was capable of 100 mph. It was built in 1966. My next car ( a Rover 2000 TC )
built in 1970 was good for 115. my Dad's Jaguar ( 1967 model ) reached 120 mph
once but was probably capable of more.

>  Or were the higher
> speedometer speeds just optimistic numbers for people to brag about
> (like the 160mph speedometer I saw in a new, but non-sporty, car)?

Most have a top speed well in excess of what the car's capable of but sometimes
the high-end models will really reach the numbers indicated.

Graham
bernard farquart - 01 Jun 2006 06:08 GMT
> Of course. My first car ever was a Ford Cortina estate with a 1500cc
> engine that
> was capable of 100 mph. It was built in 1966. My next car ( a Rover 2000
> TC )
> built in 1970 was good for 115.

I had a TC, I loved that car, but it had massive electrical
problems,(duh, British) and parts were very hard
to come by, since it was grey(ish) market here in
the US.  Great ride for the size, though.

Bernard
Pooh Bear - 02 Jun 2006 09:38 GMT
> > Of course. My first car ever was a Ford Cortina estate with a 1500cc
> > engine that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I had a TC, I loved that car, but it had massive electrical
> problems,

What sort of problems ?

> (duh, British) and parts were very hard
> to come by, since it was grey(ish) market here in
> the US.  Great ride for the size, though.

The ride was superb. Don't think I've had anything since that matches it, even
my Saabs ( good but somewhat firmer )..

Graham
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE - 31 May 2006 16:08 GMT
>In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
>go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
>out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.

It's insane that they read anything over 60.  Someday GM is gonna get
sued over this.  Somebody will get killed by a speeder doing 80 and
the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
speeding.
N8N - 31 May 2006 16:10 GMT
> >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
> speeding.

Seeing as there are roads with 70 MPH speed limits within a few hours'
drive from my house, how would I be able to tell whether or not I was
speeding?

nate
Mike T. - 31 May 2006 16:24 GMT
> Seeing as there are roads with 70 MPH speed limits within a few hours'
> drive from my house, how would I be able to tell whether or not I was
> speeding?
>
> nate

Hey, I think you've got something there.  I say all speedometers should read
25MPH, maximum.  Then you would have an iron-clad defense against roadside
tax collection activity.  You can't be charged for defective equipment if
the factory installed it.  You can't be charged for speeding if you honestly
have no idea how fast you are going.  :)  Oh, and speed limits below 35MPH
are rarely (like, almost never) enforced.  -Dave
Sir Ray - 31 May 2006 16:56 GMT
> > Seeing as there are roads with 70 MPH speed limits within a few hours'
> > drive from my house, how would I be able to tell whether or not I was
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> have no idea how fast you are going.  :)  Oh, and speed limits below 35MPH
> are rarely (like, almost never) enforced.  -Dave
I think speedometers are pretty useless, since quite frankly most sane
people drive the speed they are comfortable for road and weather
conditions (the one usenet troll this is geared to will invariable fair
to understand that).  Ideally, lose all speed limits, lose the
speedometers, lose the false science and ad-hoc revenue generation,
clearly mark areas where caution is required (and hey, if there are
inherent dangers, use zig-zag road markings or rumble strips or some
equivalent as approipiate - but no freaking traffic blocking...I mean
traffic 'calming' ), and use the space on the dashboard for larger turn
signal indicators (so the ol'  and not so ol' folks won't be driving
2km signalling for a turn).
Cops could still give out their tickets for reckless driving, and
'agressive driving' wouldn't be a crock offense based on speed + one
other offense, but would actually mean something (like weaving in and
out without signalling and tailgating agressively whenever they can't
weave).  And instead of wasting time hiding in speed traps, cops could
actually patrol for real safety violations and... Eh, we all know this
already (except for one troll, who refuses to accept reality).
"Speed kills nobody, Stupidity kills millions"
Mike T. - 31 May 2006 17:42 GMT
> I think speedometers are pretty useless, since quite frankly most sane
> people drive the speed they are comfortable for road and weather
> conditions (the one usenet troll this is geared to will invariable fair
> to understand that).  Ideally, lose all speed limits, lose the
> speedometers,

I've said many times that speedometers have NOTHING to do with driving.
Nobody is able to refute that statement without mentioning OTHER things that
ALSO have NOTHING to do with DRIVING.  (example, cops, speed limits, traffic
tickets, etc.)  -Dave
Garth Almgren - 31 May 2006 19:01 GMT
> > I think speedometers are pretty useless, since quite frankly most sane
> > people drive the speed they are comfortable for road and weather
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> ALSO have NOTHING to do with DRIVING.  (example, cops, speed limits, traffic
> tickets, etc.)  -Dave

I don't know if I've mentioned it here, but I've got a '93 Wrangler
that I've had for about two months. When I bought it, the speedometer
didn't work, and I was fine with that. I used a GPS for a week to
figure what RPM translates to what taxation guide signs, and drove that
way until two weeks ago when I repaired the corroded PCB behind the
gauge cluster. The only reason I wanted to fix it (besides the feeling
of completeness that comes from a fully functioning set of gauges) was
so that the odometer and trip odometer would start working again.
Unlike the speedometer, the odometer is a highly useful device.

Signature

~/Garth (via Google)

Bo Raxo - 31 May 2006 21:41 GMT
> I've said many times that speedometers have NOTHING to do with driving.
> Nobody is able to refute that statement without mentioning OTHER things that
> ALSO have NOTHING to do with DRIVING.  (example, cops, speed limits, traffic
> tickets, etc.)  -Dave

I used to have a 64 1/2 Mustang with a factory four speed manual, and
no tach.  The speedometer was handy for being able to determine and hit
the shift points where horsepower had reached it's peak. I'd say that
has to do with driving.
Mike T. - 01 Jun 2006 15:22 GMT
>> I've said many times that speedometers have NOTHING to do with driving.
>> Nobody is able to refute that statement without mentioning OTHER things
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the shift points where horsepower had reached it's peak. I'd say that
> has to do with driving.

Ummmm . . . no.  In the first place, your mustang wasn't properly equipped.
If it had been, you wouldn't have felt you needed to use the speedometer.
But manual tranny drivers don't use the tachometer to shift anyway.  They
generally go by the sound of the engine, when deciding when to upshift or
downshift.  So you shouldn't have been substituting anything for an
instrument that you shouldn't have been using.  -Dave
Stephen Dailey - 02 Jun 2006 04:13 GMT
>>> I've said many times that speedometers have NOTHING to do with driving.
>>> Nobody is able to refute that statement without mentioning OTHER things
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> downshift.  So you shouldn't have been substituting anything for an
> instrument that you shouldn't have been using.  -Dave

I've owned six manual-transmission vehicles, only one of which had a  
tach.  It was a nice decoration.

===
Steve
Shoreline, Washington USA
smdailey@seanet.com
1 Jun 2006, 2013 PDT
Bo Raxo - 31 May 2006 21:41 GMT
> I've said many times that speedometers have NOTHING to do with driving.
> Nobody is able to refute that statement without mentioning OTHER things that
> ALSO have NOTHING to do with DRIVING.  (example, cops, speed limits, traffic
> tickets, etc.)  -Dave

I used to have a 64 1/2 Mustang with a factory four speed manual, and
no tach.  The speedometer was handy for being able to determine and hit
the shift points where horsepower had reached it's peak. I'd say that
has to do with driving.
Stephen Dailey - 01 Jun 2006 04:51 GMT
>> I've said many times that speedometers have NOTHING to do with driving.
>> Nobody is able to refute that statement without mentioning OTHER things  
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the shift points where horsepower had reached it's peak. I'd say that
> has to do with driving.

My late grandfather had an Opel Kadett station wagon that had sets of dots  
on the edge of the speedometer dial at the optimum shift points: one for  
1st-2nd, two for 2nd-3rd, three for 3rd-4th.  Nice touch.

===
Steve
Shoreline, Washington USA
smdailey@seanet.com
31 May 2006, 2051 PDT
Brent P - 01 Jun 2006 05:18 GMT
>> no tach.  The speedometer was handy for being able to determine and hit
>> the shift points where horsepower had reached it's peak. I'd say that
>> has to do with driving.

> My late grandfather had an Opel Kadett station wagon that had sets of dots  
> on the edge of the speedometer dial at the optimum shift points: one for  
> 1st-2nd, two for 2nd-3rd, three for 3rd-4th.  Nice touch.

The '86 mazda had a little upshift light that would come on based on load
and speed...
Mike T. - 01 Jun 2006 15:24 GMT
>> My late grandfather had an Opel Kadett station wagon that had sets of
>> dots
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The '86 mazda had a little upshift light that would come on based on load
> and speed...

The only vehicles I've driven with those upshift lights, the upshift light
was ALWAYS on, so was not helpful at all.  That is,  you would get the
clutch out all the way in 2nd gear and immediately the light would come on
asking for 3rd gear.  Ummmmm . . . NO, only an idiot would upshift that
quick.  -Dave
Stephen Dailey - 02 Jun 2006 04:03 GMT
>>> My late grandfather had an Opel Kadett station wagon that had sets of
>>> dots
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> asking for 3rd gear.  Ummmmm . . . NO, only an idiot would upshift that
> quick.  -Dave

Amen to that.  I had an '88 S-10 with an upshift light, and as you're  
describing, the upshift light would come on as soon as the clutch was  
fully engaged after a shift.  I solved that problem by removing the bulb  
from the upshift light.

===
Steve
Shoreline, Washington USA
smdailey@seanet.com
1 Jun 2006, 2003 PDT
Brent P - 02 Jun 2006 06:22 GMT
> The only vehicles I've driven with those upshift lights, the upshift light
> was ALWAYS on, so was not helpful at all.  That is,  you would get the
> clutch out all the way in 2nd gear and immediately the light would come on
> asking for 3rd gear.  Ummmmm . . . NO, only an idiot would upshift that
> quick.  -Dave

The one on the mazda actually seemed rather reasonable and generally only
came on when I was intentionally getting the car up into the revs.
Garth Almgren - 02 Jun 2006 03:21 GMT
>>> no tach.  The speedometer was handy for being able to determine and hit
>>> the shift points where horsepower had reached it's peak. I'd say that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> The '86 mazda had a little upshift light that would come on based on load
> and speed...

That's funny; my Wrangler's shift light seems to be based on almost
entirely random factors. :)

Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Ronnie Dobbs - 01 Jun 2006 05:41 GMT
>> I used to have a 64 1/2 Mustang with a factory four speed manual, and
>> no tach.  The speedometer was handy for being able to determine and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> dots on the edge of the speedometer dial at the optimum shift points:
> one for 1st-2nd, two for 2nd-3rd, three for 3rd-4th.  Nice touch.

Volkswagen Beetles had similar markings on the speedometer.  Must have been
a German thing.
Larry Bud - 31 May 2006 19:49 GMT
> > > Seeing as there are roads with 70 MPH speed limits within a few hours'
> > > drive from my house, how would I be able to tell whether or not I was
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> > have no idea how fast you are going.  :)  Oh, and speed limits below 35MPH
> > are rarely (like, almost never) enforced.  -Dave

> I think speedometers are pretty useless, since quite frankly most sane
> people drive the speed they are comfortable for road and weather
> conditions (the one usenet troll this is geared to will invariable fair
> to understand that).

This might be true on the highway, but pretty wasteful on road with
lights, since they are generally timed to a specific speed.
Sir Ray - 31 May 2006 20:41 GMT
> This might be true on the highway, but pretty wasteful on road with
> lights, since they are generally timed to a specific speed.

Yes, I see where you are going with this logic, and it's a fair
concept; but you can also use the reverse logic, in that the lights
should be synchronized to move packs of traffic at the normal speed of
travel (and here we can have all kinds of 'intellegant light timing'
debate), so that a vehicle stops at one light, and when that's green
the vehicle moves through a set of well-timed lights almost naturally
(i.e. the normal rate of vehicle travel sets the light timing
parameters, not the other way around), without worrying about a set
speed number - this requires a DOT staff smarter and better trained
(but not necessarily better paid) than the usual '3 political
appointees and one well-connected PE staff consultant' that most
muncipalities maintain around here.
Larry Bud - 01 Jun 2006 17:43 GMT
> > This might be true on the highway, but pretty wasteful on road with
> > lights, since they are generally timed to a specific speed.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> parameters, not the other way around), without worrying about a set
> speed number

Fair enough.  However, moving people at the fastest speed on surface
streets isn't the only issue when discussing speed limits when you have
driveways for businesses and/or developments that need to be able to
turn onto those streets.  The faster the traffic, the less time they
have to blend in.

In addition, timed lights DO affect the opposing traffic, remember!
B1ackwater - 02 Jun 2006 03:59 GMT
>> > This might be true on the highway, but pretty wasteful on road with
>> > lights, since they are generally timed to a specific speed.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>In addition, timed lights DO affect the opposing traffic, remember!

  There's an even more evil issue ... many businesses
  want a slow speed, even stops, in front of their
  places under the theory that people will NOTICE
  their shops and come back to spend money.

  Frankly, if the road is sucky, I try to never come
  that way again ...
Pooh Bear - 31 May 2006 17:18 GMT
> Oh, and speed limits below 35MPH are rarely (like, almost never) enforced.
> -Dave

Wouldn't it be nice if that were true in the UK.

Graham
TeeTeeplz@gmail.com - 01 Jun 2006 21:42 GMT
> > Seeing as there are roads with 70 MPH speed limits within a few hours'
> > drive from my house, how would I be able to tell whether or not I was
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> have no idea how fast you are going.  :)  Oh, and speed limits below 35MPH
> are rarely (like, almost never) enforced.  -Dave

Both my brother and my dad got a ticket for a 25 mph zone. IT wasnt
even a school zone or near a school either. Fuckin Carrolton cops....
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend - 31 May 2006 18:59 GMT
> > >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> > >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> nate

Keep it under 60 and you'll know you're not speeding.  Next question.
N8N - 31 May 2006 20:23 GMT
> > > >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> > > >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Keep it under 60 and you'll know you're not speeding.  Next question.

isn't that just a little bit unsafe, o safety nazi?

nate
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE - 01 Jun 2006 06:56 GMT
>> > > >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
>> > > >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>nate

Slower is always safer.  Next question, o psychopath.
N8N - 01 Jun 2006 14:06 GMT
> >> > > >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> >> > > >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Slower is always safer.  Next question, o psychopath.

If you think that driving 60 MPH in 80 MPH traffic increases safety in
any way over keeping up with the rest of the flow, you're either
oblivious, an idiot, or both.

nate
Alex Rodriguez - 01 Jun 2006 19:52 GMT
>If you think that driving 60 MPH in 80 MPH traffic increases safety in
>any way over keeping up with the rest of the flow, you're either
>oblivious, an idiot, or both.

I think idiot is the appropriate description.
---------------
Alex
Garth Almgren - 02 Jun 2006 03:24 GMT
> Aunt Judy (Pride of Diarrhea) <http://tinyurl.com/65nqz> wrote:
>>> Aunt Judy (Pride of Diarrhea) <http://tinyurl.com/65nqz> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> any way over keeping up with the rest of the flow, you're either
> oblivious, an idiot, or both.

Thank you, Captain Obvious!

</good natured sarcasm>
Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 03 Jun 2006 03:06 GMT
[snip]

> Slower is always safer.  Next question, o psychopath.

You just keep that aluminum walker of yours at 1/2 mph and you'll be as
safe as possible.

Signature

Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. -- Mark Twain

TedKennedyMurderedHisPregnantMistress.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com - 01 Jun 2006 00:37 GMT
> Keep it under 60 and you'll know you're not speeding.  Next question.

And the next question is: is that what you were doing in that 25mph
school zone, hypocrite?
necromancer - 01 Jun 2006 05:34 GMT
>  said in rec.autos.driving:
>
> > Keep it under 60 and you'll know you're not speeding.  Next question.
>
> And the next question is: is that what you were doing in that 25mph
> school zone, hypocrite?

IIRC, Loco Laura was "experimenting." Like "Ol Tubby was doing
experiments at Chappaqqidick - you know: how long does it take for a
woman to drown/suffocate in an Oldsmobile...

Signature

Aunt Judy defends a known *drunk driver*:

"Almost all  vehicle 'accidents' are due to driver
recklessness but the Chappaquidick incident is one
instance where it may really have been no ones
fault except the idiot who built the bridge."
--"Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend," 11/10/2005
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/9jtjt
Msg ID: 1131599968.267321.318380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com

H.B. Elkins - 01 Jun 2006 19:36 GMT
>> >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
>> >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
>> speeding.

If "Laura Bush-Vehicular Homicide" wants to travel so damn slow, let he/she/it
walk, ride a bike or ride a horse!

Nate, sorry to piggyback on your post but I have the stupid mindless blob of
protoplasm to whom you replied plonked.

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Pooh Bear - 31 May 2006 17:13 GMT
> >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
> >out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.
>
> It's insane that they read anything over 60.

60 is barely moving !

> Someday GM is gonna get sued over this.

No they're not.

> Somebody will get killed by a speeder doing 80 and
> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
> speeding.

Go boil your head in a vat of acid you freak.

Graham
necromancer - 31 May 2006 18:38 GMT
Pooh Bear said in rec.autos.driving:

> Go boil your head in a vat of acid you freak.

Would that be the same acid that Loco Laura drops? ;-)
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend - 31 May 2006 19:02 GMT
> > It's insane that they read anything over 60.
>
> 60 is barely moving !

Only a psychopath with no conception of right and wrong would say that.
Alan Baker - 31 May 2006 20:03 GMT
> > > It's insane that they read anything over 60.
> >
> > 60 is barely moving !
>
> Only a psychopath with no conception of right and wrong would say that.

Sorry, but it's true.

On German autobahns, they travel far faster -- many up to twice as fast
-- and in just as much safety.

There's no magic in a number, "laura".
The Ghost In The Machine - 03 Jun 2006 18:00 GMT
>> > > It's insane that they read anything over 60.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> There's no magic in a number, "laura".

Indeed; around here we drive 80+ routinely -- on a road that's specified
65.  (Except when a highway patrol cruiser is wandering about.)

Of course, we do pay for it; accelerating to 80 mph costs half again as
much gas, as both initial acceleration (KE = 1/2 m v^2) and drag are
proportional to the square of the velocity.

Also, 55 mph did save lives but it annoyed the hell out of everybody for
awhile. :-)  But if one wants "barely moving", try 5 mph, which is about
2.24 m/s.

Signature

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It's still legal to go .sigless.

dougwill2001@yahoo.com - 31 May 2006 22:00 GMT
> > > It's insane that they read anything over 60.
> >
> > 60 is barely moving !
>
> Only a psychopath with no conception of right and wrong would say that.

Depends on the circumstances?  Would 55 mph be ok in say an alley?

Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com/southcapitolstreet
http://wwwsouthcapitolstreet.blogspot.com/
Pooh Bear - 01 Jun 2006 05:46 GMT
> > > It's insane that they read anything over 60.
> >
> > 60 is barely moving !
>
> Only a psychopath with no conception of right and wrong would say that.

You're a clueless twat.

Graham
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 03 Jun 2006 03:09 GMT
> > > It's insane that they read anything over 60.
> >
> > 60 is barely moving !
>
> Only a psychopath with no conception of right and wrong would say that.

You just keep that little gray head of yours down below the steering
wheel, peering intently at your speedometer. The rest of us are watching
traffic.

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Applying information technology is simply finding the right wrench
to pound in the correct screw.

Allen Seth Dunn - 01 Jun 2006 02:01 GMT
>> >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would
>> >only
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Go boil your head in a vat of acid you freak.

Sigh, considering how the idea of personal responsibility has faded over the
years, the more likely I think this troll could actually be right. Now I'm
not saying that it's right, but there's been a surgeon general's warning on
cigarettes for God knows how many years now, and yet people are still suing
cigarette makers?

> Graham
necromancer - 31 May 2006 19:01 GMT
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE relaxed its anal sphoncter muscle and
this flatulence was smelled by all in rec.autos.driving and unassociated
newsgroups:

> It's insane that they read anything over 60.  

What's insane is that a flatulence cloud emitting piece of sh.t like you
is allowed to be among decent people - much less drive.

> Someday GM is gonna get
> sued over this.  Somebody will get killed by a speeder doing 80 and
> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
> speeding.

Ain't happened yet and ain't going to happen. And 80 is a legal speed
now. (Cue to the rest of the USA to follow TX's lead).
TedKennedyMurderedHisPregnantMistress.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com - 31 May 2006 20:18 GMT
> laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE relaxed its anal sphoncter muscle and
> this flatulence was smelled by all in rec.autos.driving and unassociated
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> What's insane is that a flatulence cloud emitting piece of sh.t like you
> is allowed to be among decent people - much less drive.

I seriously doubt there's many "decent people" that allows Laura to be
in their midst. Can you detect the anger of a social reject in it's
posts? Perhaps that's why Laura hangs out at the bath houses drooling
over celebrities in homosexual pornography rags.
Larry Bud - 31 May 2006 19:44 GMT
> >In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> >go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
> speeding.

If the posted speed limit is 80, how is that person a "speeder"?  And
since you're such a, ahem, law abiding citizen, how is someone to know
accurately they're going 80 without a speedodometer goes to 60?
Alex Rodriguez - 01 Jun 2006 19:51 GMT
>It's insane that they read anything over 60.  Someday GM is gonna get
>sued over this.  Somebody will get killed by a speeder doing 80 and
>the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
>speeding.

As stupid as this sounds, it could happen.  After all some woman sued  
McD's , and won, for serving hot coffee.
-------------
Alex
   
GK - 02 Jun 2006 05:42 GMT
>>In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
>>go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
> speeding.

The auto manufacturers can solve the problem in the usual way, mail you
a warning notice sticker to be applied next to the speedo dial.

Verbage something like
"Warning, even though the speedometer displays ranges of relative
velocity measurements, you may be killed, injured or maimed if you
operate this vehicle either too fast or too slow for actual road
conditions. The speedometer is primarily to be referenced when
approaching an area where local law enforcement personnel are holding
fundraisers in order to purchase more police state equipment."

GK
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 03 Jun 2006 03:01 GMT
> >>In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> >>go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> GK

A BIG sticker. Covering the entire speedo dial.

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Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
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Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 03 Jun 2006 03:04 GMT
[snip]

> It's insane that they read anything over 60.  Someday GM is gonna get
> sued over this.  Somebody will get killed by a speeder doing 80 and
> the victim's family will sue GM for selling cars that encourage
> speeding.

But how would they know they were speeding if that's all the higher the
dial goes?

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professor; n, One who talks in someone else's sleep.

The Ghost In The Machine - 03 Jun 2006 18:00 GMT
> [snip]
>  
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> But how would they know they were speeding if that's all the higher the
> dial goes?

Radar units could be posted in strategic spots around the freeways; these
radar units would transmit a signal to a car's throttle/braking controls.
The car would be forced to slow down (and in some cases even stop, if an
override is present in the system -- e.g., a warrant broadcast as part of
an "amber alert").  An "OVERSPEED" warning indicator, black on red or
white on red depending on taste (these are commonly known as "idiot
lights"), would be mandated on all cars after a certain model year; this
indicator would light up and blink to give the driver 10 seconds to slow
down to posted speed -- or the car will do it for him, the indicator
glowing a steady red in that case. The car would then be forced to drive
at the posted speed for the next 15 minutes, as penance; this would be
enforced by a notification broadcast from central dispatch.  Three
violations in an hour or a 50% overspeed (e.g., 45 mph in a 30 mph zone)
would constitute grounds for engine cutoff; the linkage, transmission, or
ignition system would be disabled in a repairable (but not bypassable, at
least by the casual user) and safe fashion (e.g., a foam plug of some sort
in the fuel line that can be removed later) but the car would be disabled,
coasting to a stop, ideally in a safe stretch of freeway.  A patrol escort
can also be notified to assist the driver -- or arrest him, as necessary.

Weather monitors could be built into the units as well, adjusting the
speed limit for night driving, or rainy, foggy, snowy, or dusty weather,
or any combination thereof.

Erratic driving would be slightly harder to enforce but there is the
possibility that onboard GPS units can monitor the vehicle and check for
"out-of-true" conditions that would suggest the driver is weaving,
unsafely changing lanes, or passing on the wrong side -- or even *driving*
on the wrong side.

Cars could also be equipped with units that allow printout of their route.
This could be done wirelessly using Bluetooth or perhaps with an RJ45 jack
compatible with networking equipment such as one might find on modern
desktop computers.  (This is primarily for use by the defense in a court
case and for worried parents of teenagers; the prosecution would have the
route as plotted out by cell monitors in the roadway.)  Cars would not be
required to have onboard maps, although such might be a nice addition for
higher-priced automobiles.  The route would be a 4- or 5-dimensional plot
of points (1 coordinate is for speed); additional software could translate
that into a scrawl that shows exactly where the car was when. Additional
coordinates, such as car orientation, engine performance indications, and
braking signals, are also possible. Such would turn the car into more of
an airplane -- a consideration when one realizes that a 15 gallon fuel
tank (weighing about 92 pounds) contains 1.815 gigaJoules, or just under
half a ton of TNT equivalent. [*]

Can't be too careful with all those bombs driving around, now, can we? :-)

And of course cars might also know who's driving them, to some extent (or,
more precisely, who will be held responsible if the law is violated). This
might be doable by means of an authorization system that requires the
license to be inserted in a slot, then a fingerprint unit would scan the
driver's thumb and match it to the card.

Much of this machinery is already in place in US cities -- and is even
advertised.  "OnStar" for instance is a cellular communications system and
GPS locator unit on General Motors vehicles here in the US.  "LoJack" is
occasionally sold on vehicles, and can remotely disable them using a
special authorization signal when the vehicle is reported stolen.
(It may also have GPS.  I'd have to look.)  Throttle control has been
contemplated in Great Britain although I don't know if it's been
implemented there yet; one can use cells or satellites, depending on
expense and capabilities needed (rural roads are problematic).  Cell
phones, of course, are everywhere, and studies have been suggested to
monitor cell signals to indicate traffic blockages -- but they could also
be monitored for other purposes.  (Note that cell signals are always "on",
in some sense, if only as a beacon, so that the cell can find the phone in
the event a call needs to reach it.)

How much of this is Constitutional in the US?  Good question.  I wish I
knew the answer.

[*] The good news: it doesn't all get released at once!  It's meted out by
the throttle linkage, fuel injectors, etc.  It's also surprisingly
difficult to get a pool gasoline to catch fire, let alone explode, using
merely a cigarette.

http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/
http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html#cigarettes

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It's still legal to go .sigless.

necromancer - 31 May 2006 19:06 GMT
> Ronnie Dobbs said in rec.autos.driving:
> In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
> out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.

Dunno if they were mandated (hanging head in shame at being a GA
resident when this happened), but from my car ownership experiences
reveal the following:

'76 model year: 120 MPH speedo, no 55 highlight

'83, '87 and '88 model years: 85MPH speedo with 55 highlight

'96 and '00 models: 110MPH and 120MPH respectively, no 55 highlight.
Don't know the why of the 110 and 120 mph speedos, really. The fastest
I've ever got one of them to is 90MPH sustained and 100MPH in a passing
burst.
Brent P - 31 May 2006 19:33 GMT
>> Ronnie Dobbs said in rec.autos.driving:
>> In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
>> go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
>> out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.

> Dunno if they were mandated (hanging head in shame at being a GA
> resident when this happened), but from my car ownership experiences
> reveal the following:
>
> '76 model year: 120 MPH speedo, no 55 highlight
> '83, '87 and '88 model years: 85MPH speedo with 55 highlight

I think the actual law covered from 1977 to about 1985 model years.
The problem is that once a speedo was designed, it continued for model
years there after. '77 mavericks have the 85mph speedo, I know the '86
mazda had a normal speedo.
argatlam_roads@yahoo.com.mx - 31 May 2006 20:36 GMT
['Brent P':]

> I think the actual law covered from 1977 to about 1985 model years.
> The problem is that once a speedo was designed, it continued for model
> years there after. '77 mavericks have the 85mph speedo, I know the '86
> mazda had a normal speedo.

Do you have a cite to the actual law?  I.S.T.M. that the O.P. was
looking for chapter and verse.  B.T.W., my 1978 Impala had an 85 M.P.H.
speedometer (can't remember whether 55 received special emphasis), but
my 1986 Maxima goes up to 110 or 115.
John F. Carr - 01 Jun 2006 00:05 GMT
>I think the actual law covered from 1977 to about 1985 model years.
>The problem is that once a speedo was designed, it continued for model
>years there after. '77 mavericks have the 85mph speedo, I know the '86
>mazda had a normal speedo.

The law was Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 127,
a NHTSA regulation.  The repeal process started shortly
after Reagan took office.  The Federal Register notice
stated:

   In February and March of [1981], NHTSA undertook a
   comprehensive review of its existing and pending
   vehicle safety standards. The purpose of the review
   was to determine what modifications could be made to
   the standards to reduce the regulatory burden on the
   automobile industry without sacrificing safety. Among
   the factors considered in evaluating each standard was
   the magnitude of the standard's contribution to
   safety, the likelihood that manufacturers might
   continue to comply with the standard after its
   modification or rescission, and the costs of the
   standard. ...

   Among the standards considered was Safety Standard
   No. 127, Speedometers and Odometers (49 CFR 571.127).
   ... The speedometer requirements became effective on
   September 1, 1979.

The rule was officially revoked effective March 25, 1982.

The electronic Federal Register archives do not go back to
the original rulemaking process under Carter.

The process shows how the predient affects the attitude of
the government towards regulation.  Carter's NHTSA had
claimed that tamper-evident odometers were essential for
safety.  Under Reagan, they weren't a safety problem any
more.

Signature

   John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)

John F. Carr - 01 Jun 2006 00:19 GMT
>The electronic Federal Register archives do not go back to
>the original rulemaking process under Carter.

On closer examination, the speedometer rule may be partially
President Ford's doing.  The notice of revocation of the
regulation stated:

   The agency's 1976 regulatory evaluation on Standard No.
   127 projected that the requirement that the limitation
   on the maximum speed shown on the speedometer scale
   would be five percent effective in reducing accidents
   involving young drivers. The projected effectiveness
   was based on the assumption that the 85 mph maximum
   speed indication would be a psychological deterrent to
   high speed driving. However, the agency has no data
   indicating that the speedometer scale limitation is
   effective to any extent in reducing the tendency to
   drive too fast and in reducing the resultant accidents
   and injuries. Also, the commenters provided no data
   indicating that the limitation had any actual effect.

If NHTSA was thinking about 85 mile per hour speedometers
in 1976, Carter was not President yet.  He may have signed
off on the final rule.

Signature

   John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)

Allen Seth Dunn - 01 Jun 2006 01:51 GMT
>> Ronnie Dobbs said in rec.autos.driving:
>> In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I've ever got one of them to is 90MPH sustained and 100MPH in a passing
> burst.

For what it's worth, my 94 Ford Ranger has this too.
Otto Yamamoto - 01 Jun 2006 03:48 GMT
> Dunno if they were mandated (hanging head in shame at being a GA
> resident when this happened), but from my car ownership experiences
> reveal the following:

God. Grow a brain. 55 is the Richard Nixon Memorial Speed Limit; Ray-gun
promised a repeal, but vetoed the highway bill that put the rural
Interstate limit to 65 MPH in 1987. Even with that, most of the easten
states remained at 55 until the NMSL died under the(wait for it.........)
CLINTON(booga! booga!) administration. Betcha pissed yr pants when I said
CLINTON. Now I'll say CARTER! Bwhahahahaha. You know, "liberals" work
overtime to suck, but they don't hold a candle to "conservatives", who not
only suck harder, but are proud of it!

Signature

Otto Yamamoto
http://mryamamoto.50megs.com

necromancer - 01 Jun 2006 05:22 GMT
> Otto Yamamoto said in rec.autos.driving:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> overtime to suck, but they don't hold a candle to "conservatives", who not
> only suck harder, but are proud of it!

And your liberal educated reading comprehension skill are showing. Go
back and re-read the posts where people were talking about speedometers
reading up to 85MPH and HAD 55MPH HIGHLIGHTED ON THEM, YOU IDIOT!!!
Pooh Bear - 01 Jun 2006 05:58 GMT
> > Ronnie Dobbs said in rec.autos.driving:
> > In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I've ever got one of them to is 90MPH sustained and 100MPH in a passing
> burst.

My last 3 cars have had 140 mph speedos. Probably the previous 2 as well but not
sure.

Graham
dougwill2001@yahoo.com - 31 May 2006 21:59 GMT
> In the late 70s and 80s, most (all?) cars had speedometers that would only
> go up to 85.  Were they mandated by the government?  What year did they come
> out?  Why 85?  At the time the maximum speed limit was 55.

IIRC, the 100 mph max. speedometer reading regulation was a child of
Senator Danforth.

I do not recall if Danforth was behind the 85 mph max. regulation.

Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com/southcapitolstreet
http://wwwsouthcapitolstreet.blogspot.com/
 
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