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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / December 2006Why Speed is Safer
Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) speed, and stay together in a large clump as they drive down the road. "Space cushion? What's that??" If something happens to one of the cars in the cluster, such as a blown tire, the others will have a hard time steering clear of a collision. My Driver's Ed textbook referred to these clumps of cars as "Wolf Packs." I prefer to call them "Clusterfucks." Whatever you call them, they are not only unsfae, but they clog up the road like a blood clot clogging an artery. This is why I accelerate briskly away from traffic lights. This launches me clear of the Clusterfuck and immediately establishes a large space cushion all around my car. Driving fast is a big part of why I am a wreckless driver. A surgeon's scalpel in the right hands can restore a patient to health; it can also be used to cut a patient's throat. Speed it a tool, just as a scalpel is a tool. Speed can be used mindlessly, such as when a driver treats his gas and brake pedals as a binary input devices. But when used with surgical precision, it can avoid a collision, blast you clear of a clusterfuck, or simply get you where you're going in less time.  Signaturehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl's wife scream just prior to the impact. Scott en Aztl?n wrote: > Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns > green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) > speed, and stay together in a large clump as they drive down the road. > "Space cushion? What's that??" If something happens to one of the cars > in the cluster, such as a blown tire, the others will have a hard time > steering clear of a collision. That's not true at all. They don't move as a clump. The first car moves forward and then the second car and then the third... In article <1166205190.696670.70280@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net> wrote: > Scott en Aztl?n wrote: > > Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That's not true at all. They don't move as a clump. The first car > moves forward and then the second car and then the third... ...each one waiting patiently for the two second gap to be created before they move off? No. The move as a clump. Signature'It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix.' "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X) '[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' -- 'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM) 'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun) > ...each one waiting patiently for the two second gap to be created > before they move off? That absurdity combined with pre-existing sloth would result congestion that would make roads useless due to the drop in intersection throughput. > > ...each one waiting patiently for the two second gap to be created > > before they move off? > > That absurdity combined with pre-existing sloth would result congestion that > would make roads useless due to the drop in intersection throughput. They may not wait for the 2 sec but they _do_ wait for a bit of a space. If they didn't you would see the clumps moving as one solid block with the rear moving at the same time as the front one all with no space between them. As for the 2 seconds, I rarely see 2 seconds between vehicles in those packs. I do everything I can to avoid being part of one. Either pass the group or drop back until I am in that nice deserted stretch before the next pack shows up. Harry K > > > ...each one waiting patiently for the two second gap to be created > > > before they move off? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Harry K HEY!!! WHAT WAS THAT? A RATIONAL THOUGHT somewhere between the extremes so many in this ng assumes the other person is espousing. Jeez, NObody waits 2 seconds. But every rational person DOES allow an expanding space to develop in front as the traffic mvoes forward. It's simply the reverse of what happens when you slow down for the light in the first place. Did everyone come to a halt with 2 car lengths for every 10 mph being travelled? NO? You mean the bunched up? Well, they'll have to unbunch >> > In article <alangbaker-86D096.10473915122006@news.telus.net>, Alan >> > Baker wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Jeez, NObody waits 2 seconds. But every rational person DOES allow an > expanding space to develop in front as the traffic mvoes forward. Except when there are sloth drivers in the front. Not only do they creep away from the stop slowly,they often take a few seconds just to realize the light's changed and begin moving;the "DUH" factor. > It's simply the reverse of what happens when you slow down for the > light in the first place. Did everyone come to a halt with 2 car > lengths for every 10 mph being travelled? The oldies leave 2 car lengths stopping short,then creep up a little bit at a time. Same for those on the cellphone. > NO? You mean the bunched > up? Well, they'll have to unbunch SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > In article <1166205190.696670.70280@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, > "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > The move as a clump. No they don't. Not around here, anyway. Most people don't even watch the light to see when it changes, they just watch the car in front of them, so the stacking of reaction times causes a pretty significant delay in a long queue. I try to help out by taking my foot off the brake as soon as the light turns green to wake up the guy behind me, but often I look in my mirror after clearing the intersection and see that he's barely started through. I don't mind if another driver tailgates me through an intersection, as traffic is so bad around here that the more people that can cram through before the light changes again, the better. Now if they block the box, that's something else entirely... nate > > In article <1166205190.696670.70280@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, > > "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > them, so the stacking of reaction times causes a pretty significant > delay in a long queue. Not a sufficient delay. That's why it's a clump. Unless the people in the front move away vigorously and each rank behind them does so, but by a little less, the interval between vehicles is going to be far less than the two seconds that is considered the normal interval for safe driving. > I try to help out by taking my foot off the brake as soon as the light > turns green to wake up the guy behind me, but often I look in my mirror [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that can cram through before the light changes again, the better. Now > if they block the box, that's something else entirely I know what you're trying to say, but the traffic should then space out... ...which it doesn't do except very slowly. Signature'It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix.' "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X) '[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' -- 'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM) 'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun) "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> The move as a clump. > >No they don't. Not around here, anyway. If they didn't, then it would be easy to weave your way through the clusterfuck and burst free. If you cannot easily navigate through the clump, then it's a clump. >Most people don't even watch >the light to see when it changes, they just watch the car in front of >them And some are bent over, fishing around in their glove boxes or under their front seat, when the light changes, and yet they give YOU the stink-eye if you honk. Signaturehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl Troller's wife scream just prior to the impact. Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 16 Dec 2006 01:45 GMT Someone wrote: >> Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns >> green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That's not true at all. They don't move as a clump. The first car >moves forward and then the second car and then the third... And then they all bunch up together, eliminating the safety zone my driver's ed teacher was (and I am) so fond of. It's saved my a.s plenty of times. --- "Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty?" ~ Senator Ted Kennedy, 1973 SignatureEl Pollo Loco (Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend) demonstrates it's complete gullibility, stupidity, and state of delusion when it falls for an April Fool's joke, hook, line, and sinker: > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/008d032d86999983?hl=en& Ragnar wrote: > Gods, you're dumb. Its a rather obvious April Fool's joke. And you're > the Fool. This is no joke. Scott en Aztl?n wrote: > Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns > green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) > speed, and stay together in a large clump as they drive down the road. > "Space cushion? What's that??" If something happens to one of the cars > in the cluster, such as a blown tire, the others will have a hard time > steering clear of a collision. And what if the speediot is stuck at the back of the pack? Is that why you always race from light to light? Blown tires are a poor example for your little delusion since they're far more likely at HIGH speeds. This is pathetic grasping at straws disguised as logic. You can't win when it comes to physics and unexpected hazards, so, instead of being forthright, you invent this crap. In any sort of congestion it's impossible to be ahead of everyone. There is no "start" and "finish" to most roads as people use them. Someone is always going to be ahead of you when it's inconvenient. > My Driver's Ed textbook referred to these clumps of cars as "Wolf > Packs." I prefer to call them "Clusterfucks." Whatever you call them, > they are not only unsfae, but they clog up the road like a blood clot > clogging an artery. In my experience most people already accelerate plenty fast from stoplights (wasting fuel in the process), so you're not even describing the real world. Congestion is a people-density issue. It's very hard to run away from it unless you live out in the country. Speeding in an attempt to escape it just causes new problems, like crashes that hold up traffic even more. > This is why I accelerate briskly away from traffic lights. This > launches me clear of the Clusterfuck and immediately establishes a > large space cushion all around my car. Driving fast is a big part of > why I am a wreckless driver. Again, if you're behind the pack (hard to avoid except by chance), what do you do? Tailgate and weave until you're in front, increasing the risk of crashes along the way? Then, you'll just reach another light and have to repeat the process all over again. You are the epitome of "me first, f.ck you" yet you have the gall to describe others that way. > A surgeon's scalpel in the right hands can restore a patient to > health; it can also be used to cut a patient's throat. Speed it a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > collision, blast you clear of a clusterfuck, or simply get you where > you're going in less time. Speed can be needed (temporarily) in tricky on-ramp situations or emergency avoidance of tailgaters. There are other random situations where you need to move fast briefly, but not all the damned time! Using power gratuitously causes a lot more problems than it solves. > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 > If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl's wife scream just prior > to the impact. Well, this confirms that you're a psychopath, living your life in an speed-ego fantasy. Typing those comments just because someone questions your vices reveals a disturbing cruel streak. There's an old police technique of letting criminals hang themselves with their own words and you've just shown that it works. C.T. http://www.geocities.com/aggressive_driving/ > > Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns > > green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > And what if the speediot is stuck at the back of the pack? He honks his horn a lot, uses a lot of four letter words, and pops a few more high blood pressure pills. > Is that why > you always race from light to light? Blown tires are a poor example for [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > attempt to escape it just causes new problems, like crashes that hold > up traffic even more. Speediots have to speed even faster to bypass the congestion caused by the accidents of other speediots. > > This is why I accelerate briskly away from traffic lights. This > > launches me clear of the Clusterfuck and immediately establishes a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Again, if you're behind the pack (hard to avoid except by chance), what > do you do? The logical thing to do would be to slow down leaving a cushion between you and the pack, but the speediots just want to go fast. > Tailgate and weave until you're in front, increasing the > risk of crashes along the way? Then, you'll just reach another light [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > http://www.geocities.com/aggressive_driving/ Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 16 Dec 2006 14:06 GMT ROTFLMAO. Sorry 'bout the top post, but, I gotta know..... Is your wife still dead, Carl? Someone wrote: >> Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns >> green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > >http://www.geocities.com/aggressive_driving/ Signaturehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl's wife scream just prior to the impact. > Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns > green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > collision, blast you clear of a clusterfuck, or simply get you where > you're going in less time. Do you guys consider speeding safe when the street is empty? > Do you guys consider speeding safe when the street is empty? Speeding as in *driving excessively fast for the conditions* is never safe. Many ppl would say that the legally enforced maximum speed for the conditions is wide open to discussion though. Clearly for example a single maximum speed that's the same come wet or dry can't be correct. Graham > > Do you guys consider speeding safe when the street is empty? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Graham Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the next 10 miles. Would going 15 over the posted speed limit be ok? SignaturePeople that speed don't kill People. Idiot sloths kill people. > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Would going 15 over the posted speed limit be ok? It would be *very* unlikely to be unsafe. You don't mention the limit. In the UK the top limit is 70 mph. On a decent multi-lane road in good weather, with decent visibility and light traffic I'd have difficulty finding fault with anyone competent enought to be going 100 mph. Heck, I've done an indicated 135 in such situations ( albeit briefly ). Graham > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Graham I seem to remember a Head of Assoc of Chiefs of Police tellng his people not to bother stopping anyone safely driving under 85 on a motorway. Stopping at the side of the road and endangering other drivers, the driver stopped and the law officer was not worth the bother of stopping a safe driver who hapened to be braking a law of no validity AT THAT TIME. > > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > bother of stopping a safe driver who hapened to be braking a law of no > validity AT THAT TIME. Sounds like sensible advice to me. I find 85 ( more like 90-92 indicated ) to be a very comfortable speed to be driving on a good motorway. Much above that requires a considerably greater degree of attention and alertness. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> I seem to remember a Head of Assoc of Chiefs of Police tellng his >> people not to bother stopping anyone safely driving under 85 on a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Sounds like sensible advice to me. The problem is, for every sensible Chief like him, there are 100 who cave in to pressure from their local municipal leaders and instruct their men to "Collect and Serve" (to the local government's coffers). Signaturehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl's wife scream just prior to the impact. > I find 85 ( more like 90-92 indicated ) to be a very comfortable speed to be driving > on a good motorway. Much above that requires a considerably greater degree of > attention and alertness. > > Graham That implies that you're not paying top attention when driving, say, 55 to 75. Scary.... >> > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > bother of stopping a safe driver who hapened to be braking a law of no > validity AT THAT TIME. IMO,it's called "using your head",or "common sense".(both driver and LEOs) Something dearly lacking these days. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > > > Do you guys consider speeding safe when the street is empty? > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Would going 15 over the posted speed limit be ok? No, it would not be OK with me. But why are you asking people what they think, when it is clear you have already made up your mind. In that situation, go ahead and speed as much as you want. If it really is as safe you seem to want to believe it to be, no one would ever know. > > Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the next 10 > > miles. > > > > Would going 15 over the posted speed limit be ok? > > No, it would not be OK with me. Why not ? Do you reckon Granny knows best too ? Graham > Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the next 10 > miles. > > Would going 15 over the posted speed limit be ok? Those are generally the conditions for which the speed limit was set in the first place. As for whether it's OK, ask the cop behind you.... >> Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the >> next 10 miles. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > in the first place. > As for whether it's OK, ask the cop behind you.... the posted limits were "set" back in the '50s for autos of that era. also set for LCD;lowest common denominator. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > the posted limits were "set" back in the '50s for autos of that era. > also set for LCD;lowest common denominator. The roads and autos have gotten better. Unfortunately, the drivers have not. > >> Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the > >> next 10 miles. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > at > kua.net True that. I have been driving the same road 100 mile stretch of highway since back then and the posted has raised just 5 mph in all that time. Improvements are such that one wouldn't think it was the same road. Lanes widened, shoulders widened, curves eased or eliminated, etc. Harry K >> >> Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the >> >> next 10 miles. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Harry K that's because the gov't does not set road speed by actually looking at the particular road,they use a generic classification template. If the road is "residential"(type 1,or 2,3...),then it gets "X" speed,no more. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > >> >> Ok how about in a clear day, open freeway no cars around you for the > >> >> next 10 miles. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > at > kua.net Perfect example. Last summer the city annexed a huge chunk of land for a planned developement. Running through the middle of it was a county road for about 2 miles. On that stretch are 3 residences and it really went nowhere. High traffic count for a day would probably be around 20 or 30. Posted at 50. City immediately slapped a 25mph limit on it 'because it is now in the city'. Harry K Harry K wrote: <brevity snip> > Perfect example. Last summer the city annexed a huge chunk of land for > a planned developement. Running through the middle of it was a county > road for about 2 miles. On that stretch are 3 residences and it really > went nowhere. High traffic count for a day would probably be around 20 > or 30. Posted at 50. City immediately slapped a 25mph limit on it > 'because it is now in the city'. Just a guess... Could the city be expecting considerable construction traffic to be entering and leaving this huge planned development? Does traffic generally run 60-70mph on that stretch zoned 50? Might it not be a good idea to lower the limit before the first truck, and loads of other traffic, and kids on bikes begin using the road? ----- - gpsman > Harry K wrote: <brevity snip> > > Perfect example. Last summer the city annexed a huge chunk of land for [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - gpsman The road is a narrow gravel road. There is no construction currently and probably won't be for at least a year (measured from when they did it (July this year). When construction begins and some residences go up, yes, then the 50 should be lowered. No, traffic does not run 60-70, in fact the people living out there had asked that the limit be reduced but 25 in everyone's opinion who drives it is rediculous. As the new developement is planned for 3 acre minimum lot size,even after development 25 will be rediculous. Harry K Scott en Aztlán <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >Picture a group of cars stopped at a red light. When the light turns >green, what happens? Most of them take off at about the same (slow) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >large space cushion all around my car. Driving fast is a big part of >why I am a wreckless driver. Here's an illustration of what I'm talking about: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4388138191155175700 Notice how only a couple of cars break free of the Clusterfuck, while the majority remain in perfect formation, falling farther and farther behind as I proceed safely at the posted speed limit. They're like a (slowly) rolling Phalanx of Sloth; if something unexpected were to occur, the entire Phalanx would go down like so many bowling pins. Notice there is NO SPEEDING INVOLVED in any of this - simply a solid focus on the driving task and prompt, decisive, skillful maneuvering to establish and maintain a space cushion around my car. Signaturehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl's wife scream just prior to the impact. Scott en Aztlán <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >Here's an illustration of what I'm talking about: > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4388138191155175700 What? No "analysis" of my video from Carl or his sockpuppets? Wow, C.R.'s Kryptonite must be working! :) Signaturehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111165305855013700 If you listen carefully, you can hear Carl Troller's wife scream just prior to the impact. Scott en Aztlán wrote: <brevity snip> > Here's an illustration of what I'm talking about: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the majority remain in perfect formation, falling farther and farther > behind as I proceed safely at the posted speed limit. Not really. AAMOF, they seem to keep up pretty well. One passes you at :43, seemingly because they better timed the light for which you almost had to stop. > They're like a > (slowly) rolling Phalanx of Sloth; if something unexpected were to > occur, the entire Phalanx would go down like so many bowling pins. Why does the "unexpected" apply only to other drivers while you seem to think you're exempt? See: "Be a JLEDI or Cause Road Rage". > Notice there is NO SPEEDING INVOLVED in any of this - simply a solid > focus on the driving task and prompt, decisive, skillful maneuvering > to establish and maintain a space cushion around my car. <spit take> Any teen with a Learner's Permit and a Corvette can mash the throttle on a wide open road and accomplish the same thing (which isn't much, if anything)... that's not "decisive, skillful maneuvering"... but it is funny that you think so. If you can't stop believing such minor accomplishments demonstrate your superior driving skill, you prollyoughta stop posting videos of them. They just make you look silly. ----- - gpsman |
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