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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / January 2007Question on interchange design (pic)
Is this type of interchange: http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg used in 1) USA 2) Europe 3) both? > 223rem wrote: > Is this type of interchange: > > http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg All that is is a cloverleaf with some skewed loops. But the basic design is still just a cloverleaf. Froggie | Picayune, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/ > Is this type of interchange: > > http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg > > used in 1) USA 2) Europe 3) both? You can get all kinds of odd looks by distorting the lobes on the cloverleaf. For example take a look at this one. I know there had to be a reason for the lack of symmetry, but it looks like the designer(s) was drinking. http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=frontenac,+mo&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=38.634338,- 90.405636&spn=0.007559,0.020943&om=1 Take care, Rich God bless the USA  SignatureI used to play on the piano...until I fell off and got hurt. --my dad Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl said in rec.autos.driving: > > Is this type of interchange: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=frontenac,+mo&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=38.634338,- 90.405636&spn=0.007559,0.020943&om=1 Switching over to the satellite view (http://tinyurl.com/ylwdju), Could have the shopping centers in the SE and SW quadrants and what looks like a school in the NE quadrant played a part in that interchnage design? Signature-- necromancer Official Overseer Of Kooks And Trolls In rec.autos.driving > Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > have the shopping centers in the SE and SW quadrants and what looks like > a school in the NE quadrant played a part in that interchnage design? With the possible exception of the school (it may be a school, but I can't remember for certain what's there) the structures came well after the interchange was built. The interchange is a late 40's vintage, and the other stuff came late 50's early 60's. Still, it may have been a land acquisition issue or to save whatever was there when it was built. Take care, Rich God bless the USA SignatureI used to play on the piano...until I fell off and got hurt. --my dad > > Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl said in > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > --my dad I think the lower design speed (45mph?) used during the original construction of US 40 may have also been a factor in the design of that interchange, plus MoDOT cost cutting during the widening since the intial construction. I like to mention that interchange or the one at US 40 and Hampton whenever someone is complaining about a full-sized cloverleaf somewhere being a bad design as one they should try. > Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > have the shopping centers in the SE and SW quadrants and what looks like > a school in the NE quadrant played a part in that interchnage design? What a truly dreadful design ! Graham >> Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl said in >> rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Graham Yup. It's due to be replaced in the next 3 years. Take care, Rich God bless the USA SignatureI used to play on the piano...until I fell off and got hurt. --my dad >>> Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl said in >>> rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>> >>>> http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=frontenac,+mo&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=38.634338,- 90.405636&spn=0.007559,0.020943&om=1 That looks a lot like the old US 41/151 interchange at Fond du Lac, WI, which was just replaced with a conventional diamond, just not quite so tight and nasty. Signature___________________________________________ ____ _______________ Regards, | |\ ____ | | | | |\ Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again! Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | | ___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________ >>>> Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Rich Piehl >>>> said in rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > WI, which was just replaced with a conventional diamond, just not > quite so tight and nasty. Here's an aerial: http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=16&X=1906&Y=24230&W=3 SignatureCraig Holl Mechanical Engineer New Berlin, WI www.midwestroads.com *Remove numbers and caps to reply* > > Is this type of interchange: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=frontenac,+mo&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=38.634338,- 90.405636&spn=0.007559,0.020943&om=1 Looks like what they were doing in both of these cases extending the common lane in which people are exiting/entering the freeway. <snip> > Looks like what they were doing in both of these cases extending the > common lane in which people are exiting/entering the freeway. It seems to me this would be a perfect location to construct a SPUI. Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 11 Jan 2007 02:27 GMT >Is this type of interchange: > >http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg > >used in 1) USA 2) Europe 3) both? Traffic directionality leads me to believe this photo was taken in a country where traffic travels to the right, not left. Signaturegpstard (gpsman@driversmail.com) demonstrates his inability to comprehend the simple differences of the definitions of the monosyllabic words "time" and "chance:" (Message-ID: <1167151218.287827.24230@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>) Why don't you argue that the faster one drives the less time spent driving and available to be involved in an accident? "Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity: the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en "Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's ability to operate a vehicle: I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash. : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a61824?hl=en Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy": Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event. Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6> Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) wrote: > >Is this type of interchange: > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Traffic directionality leads me to believe this photo was taken in a > country where traffic travels to the right, not left. True. In fact, taken (by me) over France this winter. Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 11 Jan 2007 02:44 GMT >Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad >Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >True. In fact, taken (by me) over France this winter. Very nice photo. If I recall correctly, France is the only country in the european union that traffic drives on the right, correct? I thought that there was one country there that went "against the norm." Due to the signage, as well as what I perceive to be a well designed cloverleaf, I didn't think the photo was taken in the US. I *like* that cloverleaf; I'd like to see clover leafs like that in the US. While the curved part of the cloverleaf has what appears to be sharper turns than I'm used to here in the south east US, I think the lengthened acceleration/deacceleration lanes would do a lot for the majority of US drivers who don't know how to merge worth a darned. Signaturegpstard (gpsman@driversmail.com) demonstrates his inability to comprehend the simple differences of the definitions of the monosyllabic words "time" and "chance:" (Message-ID: <1167151218.287827.24230@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>) Why don't you argue that the faster one drives the less time spent driving and available to be involved in an accident? "Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity: the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en "Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's ability to operate a vehicle: I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash. : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a61824?hl=en Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy": Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event. Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6> Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) wrote: > If I recall correctly, France is the only country in the european > union that traffic drives on the right, correct? I thought that there > was one country there that went "against the norm." The UK is the only country in Europe where one drives on the left. The rest of Europe is just like here in the US. Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 11 Jan 2007 03:03 GMT >Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad >Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >The UK is the only country in Europe where one drives on the left. The >rest of Europe is just like here in the US. Leave it to me to get it backwards. :-) Thanks for the clarification. Signaturegpstard (gpsman@driversmail.com) demonstrates his inability to comprehend the simple differences of the definitions of the monosyllabic words "time" and "chance:" (Message-ID: <1167151218.287827.24230@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>) Why don't you argue that the faster one drives the less time spent driving and available to be involved in an accident? "Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity: the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en "Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's ability to operate a vehicle: I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash. : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a61824?hl=en Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy": Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event. Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6> > Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad > Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The UK is the only country in Europe where one drives on the left. The > rest of Europe is just like here in the US. Not so. The Irish Republic also drives on the left. Up until about 30 yrs ago so did Sweden. Graham > > Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad > > Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Not so. The Irish Republic also drives on the left. Such a distinction is relevant to an inhabitant of Brit islands only. > > > Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad > > > Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Such a distinction is relevant to an inhabitant of Brit islands only. I wouldn't tell the Irish that ! It *is* another country. Although, had you said that everyone in the British Isles drives on the left, you'd have been correct. Much as they might like to, the Irish can't change geography. Graham Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) wrote: > >Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad > >Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > lengthened acceleration/deacceleration lanes would do a lot for the > majority of US drivers who don't know how to merge worth a darned. Actually, that appears to be a POORLY designed cloverleaf. The turns at the base of the cloverleaf are overly sharp; a car would have to quickly slow down from highway speeds to about 20 mph or less to safely negotiate the curve. Then there's a straight away in the middle of the cloverleaf which encourages faster speeds, only to then have to slow down again to negotiate the next curve. At the end, a car would have to quickly speed up to merge safely into the main flow of traffic. A much better designed cloverleaf would have a gradually sharpening curve to provide time for a driver to reduce his speed, maintain the same radii around the cloverleaf, then at the end of the cloverleaf the curve will straighten out so traffic has an opportunity to speed up as it merges with the main flow of traffic. > Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad > Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > curve will straighten out so traffic has an opportunity to speed up as > it merges with the main flow of traffic. You know darn well 90% of the drivers out there lack the ability to brake into a decreasing-radius turn. You just want to have 'em slide off the road and get out of the way. Dave > Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad > Mothers) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > True. In fact, taken (by me) over France this winter. France was in fact my suspicion believe it or not. Graham >Is this type of interchange: > >http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg > >used in 1) USA 2) Europe 3) both? Am I missing something or is that the common full cloverleaf? Or did you mean the overpass with the service access roads? SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > >Is this type of interchange: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Am I missing something or is that the common full cloverleaf? The geometry, not the topology, looked strange to me. [Jumping in late] > > >Is this type of interchange: > > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > The geometry, not the topology, looked strange to me. This design (with the squished loops and the other ramps pinched in to them) was very common in the early days of the cloverleaf, and adjacent development usually wasn't a factor. Look through some old USGS 7.5-minute topographic maps from the 1950s and '60s if you can and you'll find that design all over the place. There may be quite a few places where traffic counts are still low enough that that type of interchange hasn't been upgraded yet. ________________________________________________________________________ Marc Fannin|musxf579@kent.edu or @hotmail.com| http://www.roadfan.com/ > Is this type of interchange: > > http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg > > used in 1) USA 2) Europe 3) both? The intersection between I-87 (the Northway) and NY-5/Wolf Road in Albany/Colonie, NY has a similarly skewed loop from NY-5 WB to I-87 SB, albeit I believe on a smaller scale. Personally, I still think the acceleration lanes are too short... > > Is this type of interchange: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Personally, I still think the acceleration lanes are too short... Is this a bit more like it ? http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=51.671105,-0.367441&spn=0.009808,0.01995 6&t=k&om=1 Graham > http://maps.google.com Aside: Google now had multi-point directions? It's about time... Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) > Is this type of interchange: > > http://i11.tinypic.com/30nglfo.jpg > > used in 1) USA 2) Europe 3) both? It's far too symmetrical for the UK ! http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=51.717431,-0.3792&spn=0.019595,0.039911& t=k&om=1 Graahm Hi! > It's far too symmetrical for the UK ! For Germany, too: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=de&q=braunschweig+hamburger+stra%C3%9Fe&ie=UT F8&z=15&ll=52.282468,10.495849&spn=0.010817,0.020857&t=k&om=1 Yours, Erik. > Which cars have the best 0-30 times? My '66 Bug took merely 946,771,220 seconds to get from 0-30 years of age. I think that's actually pretty good -- or do you know any car in its class that did better? -- Yours truly in r.a.d. |
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