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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / January 2007

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YAY - Another drunk driver convicted of MURDER

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Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 14 Jan 2007 04:40 GMT
This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago this would have
been an accident. 10 years ago, manslaughter.

http://www.dailycomet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070110/APN/701103132

January 10. 2007 1:32PM

Drunken driver convicted of murder in Mobile - The Associated Press

A drunken driver with five prior DUI convictions will face 10 years to
life in prison when sentenced in February after being convicted of
murder in a multi-car crash that killed a woman.

Jurors convicted Jimmy Wayne Bass, 43, on Tuesday in the crash that
killed Theresa Moore, 52, on Sept. 23, 2005. According to testimony,
Bass drifted into an oncoming lane and caused a four-car crash.

He was said to be ranting and obviously drunk as he sat in his pickup
truck after the crash that rainy afternoon. Jurors were informed of
only two of his previous DUI convictions.

Defense attorney Jim Byrd told jurors that Bass ran no red lights, was
not speeding and did not "drive" across Pascagoula Road's center line
but "drifted" across. He said his crime was possibly manslaughter, but
not murder.

Assistant District Attorney Ashley Rich told jurors that Bass chose to
drink, chose to get behind the wheel while drunk and ultimately chose
to put others in harm's way, without regard for their lives.

Bass will remain in jail until his Feb. 15 sentencing.
John - 14 Jan 2007 05:34 GMT
Why is it it takes FIVE DUI convictions and a death before this person gets
a measly ten years in jail-half that time with good behavior and yet a 1st
time offender of a man attempting to meet an underage girl when there's NO
victim gets the book thrown at him the 1st time.  It doesn't make sense.

> This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago this would have
> been an accident. 10 years ago, manslaughter.

http://www.dailycomet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070110/APN/701103132

> January 10. 2007 1:32PM
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Bass will remain in jail until his Feb. 15 sentencing.
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 14 Jan 2007 16:41 GMT
> Why is it it takes FIVE DUI convictions and a death before this person gets
> a measly ten years in jail-half that time with good behavior and yet a 1st
> time offender of a man attempting to meet an underage girl when there's NO
> victim gets the book thrown at him the 1st time.  It doesn't make sense.

I know what you mean.  The sex laws are crazy as also the drug laws. 10
years or more for mere cocaine possession.!!! I think a DUI who causes
a fatal crash should always get life in prison even if he's a first
time offender.
John - 14 Jan 2007 17:29 GMT
7

> > Why is it it takes FIVE DUI convictions and a death before this person gets
> > a measly ten years in jail-half that time with good behavior and yet a 1st
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> a fatal crash should always get life in prison even if he's a first
> time offender.

An underage child who is touched by an "overage" adult is alive and had
their whole life ahead of them.  Yet the offender gets more time and is
branded for life.  A DUI conviction is nothing these days.  You can MURDER
someone drinking while driving and get a slap on the wrist.  Society would
rather have our childred DEAD than touched.
Matthew T. Russotto - 14 Jan 2007 23:07 GMT
>An underage child who is touched by an "overage" adult is alive and had
>their whole life ahead of them.  Yet the offender gets more time and is
>branded for life.  A DUI conviction is nothing these days.  You can MURDER
>someone drinking while driving and get a slap on the wrist.  Society would
>rather have our childred DEAD than touched.

No matter how often you MADDmen try to erase the distinction between
intentional actions and negligent or reckless ones, it exists.
Signature

 There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
 result in a fully-depreciated one.

Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 17 Jan 2007 01:35 GMT
>An underage child who is touched by an "overage" adult is alive and had
>their whole life ahead of them.  Yet the offender gets more time and is
>branded for life.  A DUI conviction is nothing these days.  You can MURDER
>someone drinking while driving and get a slap on the wrist.  Society would
>rather have our childred DEAD than touched.

Perhaps, if your dictionary isn't malfunctioning, you can look up the
word "intent" for us?

Your posts "smell" way too much like Aunt Judy's. Are you sure you're
not a sock?

Signature

gpstard (gpsman@driversmail.com) demonstrates his inability to comprehend the
simple differences of the definitions of the monosyllabic words "time" and "chance:"
(Message-ID: <1167151218.287827.24230@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>)
Why don't you argue that the faster one drives the less time spent driving and available to be involved in an accident?

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity:
the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.

: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's ability to operate a vehicle:
I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
: http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a61824?hl=en

Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy":
Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event.
Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6>
Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 17 Jan 2007 01:34 GMT
>> Why is it it takes FIVE DUI convictions and a death before this person gets
>> a measly ten years in jail-half that time with good behavior and yet a 1st
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>a fatal crash should always get life in prison even if he's a first
>time offender.

Unless, of course, you're a senator and can easily arrange for a cover
up.

Signature

gpstard (gpsman@driversmail.com) demonstrates his inability to comprehend the
simple differences of the definitions of the monosyllabic words "time" and "chance:"
(Message-ID: <1167151218.287827.24230@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>)
Why don't you argue that the faster one drives the less time spent driving and available to be involved in an accident?

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity:
the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.

: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's ability to operate a vehicle:
I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
: http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a61824?hl=en

Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy":
Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event.
Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6>
Polymer Jones - 14 Jan 2007 06:15 GMT
Serious reply:  I for one appreciate your posts. Strong supporter
of MADD and DIOL (drive in your own lane). Keep up the
good work.
Jerry

> This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago this would have
> been an accident. 10 years ago, manslaughter.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Bass will remain in jail until his Feb. 15 sentencing.
Brent P - 14 Jan 2007 06:48 GMT
> Serious reply:  I for one appreciate your posts. Strong supporter
> of MADD and DIOL (drive in your own lane). Keep up the
> good work.

So you support a nanny/police state watching everyone under the excuse of
stopping drunk driving?

There is no 'own lane'. Keep Right Except to Pass. KRETP
Jason Pawloski - 14 Jan 2007 08:01 GMT
> > Serious reply:  I for one appreciate your posts. Strong supporter
> > of MADD and DIOL (drive in your own lane). Keep up the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> There is no 'own lane'. Keep Right Except to Pass. KRETP

So...... you're trying to inject logic into someone who agrees with
LAURA BUSH KILLER HER BOYFRIEND????
Lars Eighner - 14 Jan 2007 13:04 GMT
In our last episode,
<xs-dnRM74Ly_TzTYnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
the lovely and talented Brent P
broadcast on alt.true-crime:

>> Serious reply:  I for one appreciate your posts. Strong supporter
>> of MADD and DIOL (drive in your own lane). Keep up the
>> good work.

> So you support a nanny/police state watching everyone under the excuse of
> stopping drunk driving?

Only on public streets.   If people want to get drunk and drive their own
tractors into their own trees, that's fine.

> There is no 'own lane'. Keep Right Except to Pass. KRETP

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Lars Eighner     <http://larseighner.com/>     <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
           Nobody has ever, ever, EVER learned all of WordPerfect.

Nate Nagel - 14 Jan 2007 14:27 GMT
> In our last episode,
> <xs-dnRM74Ly_TzTYnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Only on public streets.   If people want to get drunk and drive their own
> tractors into their own trees, that's fine.

Then kindly move from the USA to some other country.  We don't need any
more nanny-state liberals f.cking up what was once a country that
believed in the rights and liberties of the individuals.

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"  I'm sick and tired
of being punished for things I *might* do.

nate

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Lars Eighner - 14 Jan 2007 16:25 GMT
In our last episode,
<eodeob113eq@news2.newsguy.com>,
the lovely and talented Nate Nagel
broadcast on alt.true-crime:

>> In our last episode,
>> <xs-dnRM74Ly_TzTYnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>> Only on public streets.   If people want to get drunk and drive their own
>> tractors into their own trees, that's fine.

> Then kindly move from the USA to some other country.

You alcoholics are really all alike, aren't you?

> We don't need any more nanny-state liberals f.cking up what was once a
> country that believed in the rights and liberties of the individuals.

There is no right to drive drunk.

> Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"

Who is in prison for drunk driving without being convicted?

> I'm sick and tired of being punished for things I *might* do.

It is a crime to drive drunk.  It is no crime to "might" drive drunk.
How exactly are you being punished for "might" drive drunk?

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Lars Eighner     <http://larseighner.com/>     <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
          Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things.

Nate Nagel - 14 Jan 2007 19:51 GMT
> In our last episode,
> <eodeob113eq@news2.newsguy.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> You alcoholics are really all alike, aren't you?

Slander noted.

>>We don't need any more nanny-state liberals f.cking up what was once a
>>country that believed in the rights and liberties of the individuals.
>
> There is no right to drive drunk.

There is no right for the police to stop and search me unless they have
probable cause to believe that I have committed or am in the process of
committing a crime.

>>Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"
>
> Who is in prison for drunk driving without being convicted?

I am subject to illegal search every time I get behind the wheel of my
car, because of the ASSUMPTION that I MAY be drunk.  The fact that you
don't find this offensive and horrifying is offensive and horrifying in
and of itself.

>>I'm sick and tired of being punished for things I *might* do.
>
> It is a crime to drive drunk.  It is no crime to "might" drive drunk.
> How exactly are you being punished for "might" drive drunk?

I am subject to an illegal search by the police every time I get behind
the wheel.  If I am selected for a random search, and I resist, I
probably will go to jail and/or lose my license.

nate

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Lars Eighner - 14 Jan 2007 23:19 GMT
>> There is no right to drive drunk.

> There is no right for the police to stop and search me unless they have
> probable cause to believe that I have committed or am in the process of
> committing a crime.

There certainly is.  There is no right to drive to begin with.  The state is
within its rights to limit the priviledge of driving in anyway.  When you
put your vehicle on public roads, created and supported by the taxpayers,
other drivers and pedestrians have a right to be protected from your
drunkeness by whatever means are necessary.

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             War on Terrorism:  Bad News from the Sanity Front
"There's one thing ... that I do like about Rumsfeld, he's just a little bit
            crazy, OK"? --Thomas Friedman, _The New York Times_

Nate Nagel - 14 Jan 2007 23:30 GMT
>>>There is no right to drive drunk.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> There certainly is.  There is no right to drive to begin with.

I have fulfilled all the requirements to hold a driver's license in my
state, and as far as the state knows obey all laws and regulations.  Not
allowing me to drive would be depriving me of my Constitutional rights.

> The state is
> within its rights to limit the priviledge of driving in anyway.

Cite?

> When you
> put your vehicle on public roads, created and supported by the taxpayers,
> other drivers and pedestrians have a right to be protected from your
> drunkeness by whatever means are necessary.

Slander duly noted.  I am not drunk and neither you nor the state have
any right to presume that I am unless I display visible outward signs of
drunkenness.

nate

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Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 14 Jan 2007 23:42 GMT
> > There certainly is.  There is no right to drive to begin with.
>
> I have fulfilled all the requirements to hold a driver's license in my
> state, and as far as the state knows obey all laws and regulations.  Not
>allowing me to drive would be depriving me of my Constitutional rights.

HAHAHA.  So now it's your CONSTITUTIONAL right to drive???? HAHAHA.
You are as crazy as you are stupid.
Nate Nagel - 14 Jan 2007 23:41 GMT
>>>There certainly is.  There is no right to drive to begin with.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> HAHAHA.  So now it's your CONSTITUTIONAL right to drive???? HAHAHA.
> You are as crazy as you are stupid.

That is correct, I have the Constitutional right to travel freely, and
since I have fulfilled all legal requirements to operate a motor vehicle
the state or states have no right to deprive me of my right to drive.

nate

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Matthew T. Russotto - 15 Jan 2007 01:05 GMT
>That is correct, I have the Constitutional right to travel freely, and
>since I have fulfilled all legal requirements to operate a motor vehicle
>the state or states have no right to deprive me of my right to drive.

Ahh, but the Robed 9 just let stand an appeals court decision which
says you have no right to any _particular_ mode of travel (the Gilmore
decision concerning secret airline security directives).  So you can
travel, but the state can put arbitrary and even secret restrictions on any
particular mode of travel you can come up with.

Rather vitiates the Fourth Amendment in my opinion, but no one asked.
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 There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
 result in a fully-depreciated one.

Nate Nagel - 15 Jan 2007 01:24 GMT
>>That is correct, I have the Constitutional right to travel freely, and
>>since I have fulfilled all legal requirements to operate a motor vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Rather vitiates the Fourth Amendment in my opinion, but no one asked.

I agree with you, and furthermore basically the Supremes are saying that
you can walk anywhere you want but the government has the power to
regulate any other mode of travel which seems contrary to what we've
always been taught about freedom to travel.  I am certain that that is
not what the Founding Fathers had in mind; otherwise there would there
not have been some restrictions on travel on horseback or by stagecoach?
 And that's not the first decision in recent memory that is utterly
asinine.  Kelo v. City of New London comes to mind as one that just
completely blows my mind.  The lack of outrage at the decision is almost
as shocking as the decision itself.

nate

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Clark F Morris - 15 Jan 2007 01:48 GMT
>>>That is correct, I have the Constitutional right to travel freely, and
>>>since I have fulfilled all legal requirements to operate a motor vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>completely blows my mind.  The lack of outrage at the decision is almost
>as shocking as the decision itself.

While I agree that the city of New London was outrageous in the Kelo
case, from a constitutional point of view, I think the Supreme Court
was right if the city gave constitutionally required compensation. The
alternative is to have the court deciding what a valid public purpose
is.  This could extend to condemnation of property for highway
improvements and other improvements.  I hope the aggrieved people in
Kelo were able to get together and vote the government in question out
of office.

>nate
Brent P - 15 Jan 2007 02:09 GMT
> While I agree that the city of New London was outrageous in the Kelo
> case, from a constitutional point of view, I think the Supreme Court
> was right if the city gave constitutionally required compensation.

You missed the followup stories then. The city of New London charged each
person who fought rent for the duration of the court battle subtracting
that from the offer they made before the court battle started. End result
was that people lost their homes and had a _DEBT_ on top of it as the
'rent' exceeded the city's initial offer. This doesn't include any
mortgages owed on the properties.
Nate Nagel - 15 Jan 2007 02:14 GMT
>>While I agree that the city of New London was outrageous in the Kelo
>>case, from a constitutional point of view, I think the Supreme Court
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 'rent' exceeded the city's initial offer. This doesn't include any
> mortgages owed on the properties.

Not to mention that traditionally, eminent domain was only exercised in
cases where private lands would be taken for public use.  The New London
case was unique in that it involved private lands being taken and given
to a private developer, with the justification that it would result in
increased tax revenue for the city - something that to my knowledge
hadn't been done before, and the vast majority of citizens who paid
attention during civics class would tell you *couldn't* be done.

nate

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Brent P - 15 Jan 2007 03:34 GMT
> Not to mention that traditionally, eminent domain was only exercised in
> cases where private lands would be taken for public use.  The New London
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> hadn't been done before, and the vast majority of citizens who paid
> attention during civics class would tell you *couldn't* be done.

Yep, the previous closest examples were sports stadiums. Where a city
would take property to build a stadium effectively for a private company.
However, the title of the stadium, no matter how sweet a deal for the
sports team, remained in the hands of the city. Because of this, it
technically was acceptable as the stadium was a public facility like an
airport or a fieldhouse or any other countless examples.
Matthew T. Russotto - 16 Jan 2007 19:52 GMT
>You missed the followup stories then. The city of New London charged each
>person who fought rent for the duration of the court battle subtracting
>that from the offer they made before the court battle started. End result
>was that people lost their homes and had a _DEBT_ on top of it as the
>'rent' exceeded the city's initial offer. This doesn't include any
>mortgages owed on the properties.

They're lucky the former homeowners didn't simply fill the homes with
a mixture of mercury, dioxin, asbestos, and kangaroo rat droppings
before moving out.  I'd certainly have been tempted to do so.

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 result in a fully-depreciated one.

Brent P - 16 Jan 2007 20:52 GMT
> They're lucky the former homeowners didn't simply fill the homes with
> a mixture of mercury, dioxin, asbestos, and kangaroo rat droppings
> before moving out.  I'd certainly have been tempted to do so.

As if that would stop the government. They wouldn't even test it.

Oh and that brings up a case in NJ. The town government decided they
needed to preserve 'open space' so took a family's farm with an offer far
less than market value to a developer. But that's not the end of it, the
government last I heard was considering fining the family for
environmental cleanup of the property... thusly wiping out what they were
going to 'pay' for it.

But that's not all.... the local government would not in any way be bound
to keep the property as open space, but may sell it to developers.

Most of the more recent articles are gone from the web, but last I heard
they had been forced to leave the Farm.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/650seaos.asp?pg=1

is the most up to date I can find.

Of note:
"Over the years, the Halpers have claimed they've been subjected to all
sorts of harassment, from Larry getting charged with animal cruelty for
allegedly not providing veterinary care to two horses, to their daughter
being cited for jaywalking in a Shop-Rite parking lot, to cops showing up
on their property and beaming lights in their window. The Halpers fight
back. Clara once filed a complaint against a town councilman who she said
manhandled her when she was trying to videotape one of their meetings.
She also ran for mayor as an independent to bring visibility to their
plight, garnering a third of the votes of Democratic mayor Brian Wahler,
who has helped lead the charge against them."

and:

"The township's attorney actually had the nerve to argue that recent real
estate appreciation shouldn't be a factor since Piscataway's condemnation
of the Halper farm has lessened its value."

and:

"It's been the township's position that the reason for taking the
Halpers' property was that the family was going to sell to developers. As
proof, the township has publicized two unsolicited offers the Halpers
received of up to $13.8 million almost ten years ago."

Note: government offer is $4 million.

and:

"As soon as Gordon finishes assuring me the township has no intention of
cheating the Halpers, she tells me exactly how the township will likely
cheat the Halpers. "There's going to be a tremendous chemical clean-up of
that property," she says, adding that any clean-up costs will
"unfortunately come off the top of their money." Gordon's never been on
the property, nor does she know of any "definitive test" that's been done
that would bear out her charges, but she speculates wildly. "Oil drums
may be buried there. I don't have any evidence of that, but there may be
people who do."

Just as an exercise--God forbid we jump to conclusions--I ask her to give
me a rough guesstimate of how pricey this could get for the Halpers.
Gordon grows coy. Of the tests that have already been run, she says, "I
don't know what they show," therefore "I don't want to estimate, but
somebody--and I don't know if it's accurate at all--said it could be $3
million. There's a feeling that there's been so much property damage on
there we don't know about. Listen, I hope there's not.""
Matthew T. Russotto - 16 Jan 2007 19:48 GMT
>While I agree that the city of New London was outrageous in the Kelo
>case, from a constitutional point of view, I think the Supreme Court
>was right if the city gave constitutionally required compensation. The
>alternative is to have the court deciding what a valid public purpose
>is.

And that's a problem how?  As it is, "for public use" has whatever
meaning the condemners say it does.

>This could extend to condemnation of property for highway
>improvements and other improvements.

Sure.  The cases already go to court because there's always argument
about the amount compensation.  Since it's pretty clear that a highway
improvement is a public use, that issue would be resolved quickly.

>I hope the aggrieved people in
>Kelo were able to get together and vote the government in question out
>of office.

Horse, escape, closing of barn door post hoc.
Signature

 There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
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Brent P - 15 Jan 2007 02:07 GMT
> asinine.  Kelo v. City of New London comes to mind as one that just
> completely blows my mind.  The lack of outrage at the decision is almost
> as shocking as the decision itself.

Because the media barely touches it and the moron masses certainly don't
pay attention. Nor do the masses have much clue what the nation was
founded upon. The dumbing down of the nation has been very successful.

Now if the media gave it the play and attention to detail as the way an
old senator was wished a happy birthday some time back, then certainly
there would be a great deal of outrage.

The media channels political energy into trivial wastes of time that
further the two party, football game mentality.

For good news however, I think this next election there will be a
canidate that I can actually support.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/16444560.htm
Matthew T. Russotto - 16 Jan 2007 19:40 GMT
>I agree with you, and furthermore basically the Supremes are saying that
>you can walk anywhere you want but the government has the power to
>regulate any other mode of travel which seems contrary to what we've
>always been taught about freedom to travel.

Not so fast; they haven't said the government doesn't have the power
to regulate walking.
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Old Wolf - 15 Jan 2007 03:54 GMT
> Not allowing me to drive would be depriving me of my Constitutional rights.

Would that be the Right of Transit Ordinarily used for Personal Travel
on our Public Highways (Williams v. Fears, 179 U.S. 270 (1900))  ?
Brent P - 14 Jan 2007 23:35 GMT
> There is no right to drive to begin with.

That's what government wants you to think so they can tie all sorts of
conditions and force you to give up rights in order to drive.

> The state is
> within its rights to limit the priviledge of driving in anyway.

'priviledge to drive' is a prime example of that slipperly slope and the
altering of the language that has resulted in conditions that would never
had been if proposed in the first place.

If it had been known that government would start requiring people to give
up their rights to drive, the licensing of drivers would never have
happened, people would have objected LOUDLY. Now, because we are so used
to the intrusions placed upon us through driving, they are being applied
outside of driving a vehicle with success.

>  When you
> put your vehicle on public roads, created and supported by the taxpayers,
> other drivers and pedestrians have a right to be protected from your
> drunkeness by whatever means are necessary.

Using the negligence of a small fraction of the population to run
roughshod over the rights of all is but an excuse for tyrants and control
freaks to obtain what they wanted all along, control.
Brent P - 14 Jan 2007 20:22 GMT
>> Then kindly move from the USA to some other country.

> You alcoholics are really all alike, aren't you?

Lame tactic. Call the person who is against the police state as being 'a
drunk', 'against children', etc and so forth. Stuff it.

>> We don't need any more nanny-state liberals f.cking up what was once a
>> country that believed in the rights and liberties of the individuals.

> There is no right to drive drunk.

Our right to travel freely without government interference trumps the
desire of you and your control freak brethren to set up checkpoints to
find drunk drivers.

> It is a crime to drive drunk.  It is no crime to "might" drive drunk.
> How exactly are you being punished for "might" drive drunk?

Seems you've never encountered a police checkpoint and had to produce
papers as if you were living in some soviet republic.
Matthew T. Russotto - 14 Jan 2007 23:05 GMT
>It is a crime to drive drunk.  It is no crime to "might" drive drunk.
>How exactly are you being punished for "might" drive drunk?

Thanks to MADD laws, if you're found sleeping it off in the back seat
of your car, you're guilty of drunk driving.  If you're found sleeping
it off in an inoperable car (for instance, one with no engine), you're
guilty of drunk driving.  If you're found over the 0.08 limit in a
Virginia or Texas bar, you're guilty of public intoxication.  If
you blow below the legal limit in PA, they can linearly extrapolate your BAC
backwards to the time of arrest and convict you anyway.  
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Lars Eighner - 15 Jan 2007 00:57 GMT
In our last episode,
<Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
the lovely and talented Matthew T. Russotto
broadcast on alt.true-crime:

>>It is a crime to drive drunk.  It is no crime to "might" drive drunk.
>>How exactly are you being punished for "might" drive drunk?

> Thanks to MADD laws, if you're found sleeping it off in the back seat
> of your car, you're guilty of drunk driving.  If you're found sleeping
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> you blow below the legal limit in PA, they can linearly extrapolate your BAC
> backwards to the time of arrest and convict you anyway.  

And the problem with that would be?

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Nate Nagel - 15 Jan 2007 01:15 GMT
> In our last episode,
> <Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> And the problem with that would be?

It's a gross violation of our civil rights and goes against all the
principles on which the USA was founded, not to mention common f.cking 
sense? (although "common sense" seems to be sadly an oxymoron)

other than that, no real problem, really.

nate

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Matthew T. Russotto - 15 Jan 2007 01:16 GMT
>In our last episode,
><Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>And the problem with that would be?

Someone sleeping it off in the back seat is being punished because he
"might" drive drunk.  Someone sleeping it off in an inoperable car is
being punished because he "might" drive drunk IF the car would even
work.  Someone being arrested for public intoxication for being in a
bar over the legal blood alcohol level for driving is just plain
bizarre, but it has been justified by the agencies in question by
pointing out that the drunk might drive.  And someone being convicted
by a linear extrapolation which may or may not be valid in the
specific case under consideration is unjust.
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Clark F Morris - 15 Jan 2007 01:51 GMT
>In our last episode,
><Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>And the problem with that would be?
The extrapolation is on shaky scientific grounds at best and in the
case of criminal convictions should fail the reasonable doubt test.
The extension of drunk driving charges to areas where it is
inappropriate may be one of the reasons why courts have erred in cases
where the drunk driver clearly caused the accident and should have
been thrown in the slammer.
Lars Eighner - 15 Jan 2007 07:40 GMT
>>In our last episode,
>><Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>  The extrapolation is on shaky scientific grounds at best and in the
> case of criminal convictions should fail the reasonable doubt test.

It is circumstantial evidence, and people are convicted of worse on less all
the time.  Any honest person can avoid such a problem by simply not drinking
in public or calling a cab if he does.  If you can't afford a cab (and a
gratuity for your servers), you can't afford to drink.

> The extension of drunk driving charges to areas where it is inappropriate
> may be one of the reasons why courts have erred in cases where the drunk
> driver clearly caused the accident and should have been thrown in the
> slammer.

Oh.  And alcoholics in positions of political influence wouldn't have
anything to do with it?

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             War on Terrorism:  Bad News from the Sanity Front
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Nate Nagel - 15 Jan 2007 12:28 GMT
>>>In our last episode,
>>><Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> in public or calling a cab if he does.  If you can't afford a cab (and a
> gratuity for your servers), you can't afford to drink.

So what about the people that *were* planning on calling a cab that were
arrested for public intoxication in Virginia simply because they were
present in a bar with a BAC of over 0.08%?

Let's face it, you have an anti-alcohol bias and you also don't believe
in individual rights nor the principle of innocent until proven guilty.
 I would far rather the government expend its efforts on protecting me
from people like you than from drunk drivers, as I have more to fear
from you.

nate

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Lars Eighner - 15 Jan 2007 14:20 GMT
> So what about the people that *were* planning on calling a cab that were
> arrested for public intoxication in Virginia simply because they were
> present in a bar with a BAC of over 0.08%?

Public intoxication is and has been a crime just about everywhere.
Obviously anyone who blows an oh-eight cannot control his drinking.
He needs to be arrested for the sake of public order.

> Let's face it, you have an anti-alcohol bias and you also don't believe
> in individual rights nor the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

Face it.  You are a hopeless alcoholic in deep denial.

>   I would far rather the government expend its efforts on protecting me
> from people like you than from drunk drivers, as I have more to fear
> from you.

Obviously alcohol is the most important thing in you life.

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     College:  The fountains of knowledge, where everyone goes to drink.

Nate Nagel - 15 Jan 2007 14:41 GMT
>>So what about the people that *were* planning on calling a cab that were
>>arrested for public intoxication in Virginia simply because they were
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Face it.  You are a hopeless alcoholic in deep denial.

What.  The.  f.ck.

You are saying that a person who has two beers within an hour or so
"can't control their drinking?"  You're clearly in the minority.  I
don't think I know one single person who would agree with you.  It might
not be such a good idea to get behind the wheel of a car after doing so,
but that's not what we're talking about.

>>  I would far rather the government expend its efforts on protecting me
>>from people like you than from drunk drivers, as I have more to fear
>>from you.
>
> Obviously alcohol is the most important thing in you life.

No, freedom, the freedom to do what I want so long as it doesn't hurt
anyone, and the freedom from busybodies who want to impose their narrow
little worldview on people simply because they're control freaks.

FWIW I feel exactly the same way about marijuana as I do about alcohol -
and I simply don't use marijuana, period.  So are you going to accuse me
of being a pothead simply because of my views, despite the fact that I
can guaran-goddamn-tee you that there's 0.0% THC in my blood now or any
time?

nate

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Matthew T. Russotto - 16 Jan 2007 20:09 GMT
>> So what about the people that *were* planning on calling a cab that were
>> arrested for public intoxication in Virginia simply because they were
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Obviously anyone who blows an oh-eight cannot control his drinking.
>He needs to be arrested for the sake of public order.

Do you have this site bookmarked, by any chance:

http://www.atthefront.com/g_boots_jacks.htm
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 There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
 result in a fully-depreciated one.

Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 17 Jan 2007 05:08 GMT
> So what about the people that *were* planning on calling a cab that were
> arrested for public intoxication in Virginia simply because they were
> present in a bar with a BAC of over 0.08%?

I hadn't heard of that but it's no different from our attitude towards
other drugs. If you're caught with some coke on you, off you go to the
slammer. You don't have to be driving a car of doing anything that
endangers anyone else.

Why can't you think.?
Nate Nagel - 17 Jan 2007 11:19 GMT
>>So what about the people that *were* planning on calling a cab that were
>>arrested for public intoxication in Virginia simply because they were
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> slammer. You don't have to be driving a car of doing anything that
> endangers anyone else.

But why would that be illegal?

> Why can't you think.?

I can think just fine.  Why are you a sheep?

nate
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milou - 17 Jan 2007 12:01 GMT
>I can think just fine.  Why are you a sheep?

Please don't feed the troll, it's already soooooo full of sh.t
Brent P - 17 Jan 2007 13:57 GMT
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:

>> Why can't you think.?

> I can think just fine.  Why are you a sheep?

Maybe 'it' has been an experimental victim:
http://www.earthpulse.com/src/category.asp?catid=12
Matthew T. Russotto - 16 Jan 2007 20:00 GMT
>>>In our last episode,
>>><Gs2dnXnZCtquKjfYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>It is circumstantial evidence, and people are convicted of worse on less all
>the time.

Really?  What felonies are people convicted based on less than a
linear extrapolation of their blood alcohol level?  Particularly one
_known to be invalid_?  (Since BAC can continue to rise after
drinking, a person who blew 0.06 after being arrested might have been
only 0.04 on the road, not the 0.08 they "extrapolated")

>Any honest person can avoid such a problem by simply not drinking
>in public or calling a cab if he does.

Yep, it's a neo-prohibitionist agenda.  Yes, it's possible to avoid
these problems, though it may be necessary to eschew driving
entirely.  But then it's not a matter of following the law any more --
it's a matter of following an unpublished set of rules much more restrictive
than the law, but with penalties as strict.
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 result in a fully-depreciated one.

Brent P - 16 Jan 2007 23:27 GMT
> entirely.  But then it's not a matter of following the law any more --
> it's a matter of following an unpublished set of rules much more restrictive
> than the law, but with penalties as strict.

Correct. It's what were called doomsmen in the 12th century. Only they
knew the law and they dished out the penalties for violating the laws.
The 'rule of law' is degrading to that point because the law has become
so burdensome that not even the legislators making it even bother to read
it. Throw a healthy dose of selective enforcement and creative/mis
interpetation on top of that and we are nearly back in the 12th century
for effective purposes.
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 17 Jan 2007 15:59 GMT
> Yep, it's a neo-prohibitionist agenda.  Yes, it's possible to avoid
> these problems, though it may be necessary to eschew driving
> entirely.  But then it's not a matter of following the law any more --
> it's a matter of following an unpublished set of rules much more restrictive
> than the law, but with penalties as strict.

HAHAHA. More republican hypocrisy. YOU are the ones who gave us this
insane War on Drugs that has imprisoned literally MILLIONS of americans
for harmless drug possession.  OTOH -  you want to ignore the deadly
and super-violent drug crime of drunk driving  because you do it.
Brent P - 14 Jan 2007 20:19 GMT
> In our last episode,
><xs-dnRM74Ly_TzTYnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Only on public streets.   If people want to get drunk and drive their own
> tractors into their own trees, that's fine.

Comrade, do you have your papers?

I'm sorry, no amount of drunk drivers makes that something I want to live
with to rid the roads of them.
necromancer - 15 Jan 2007 08:24 GMT
Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Speeders & Drunk
Drivers are MURDERERS, a lover of 10 year old boys and drunken
massachusetts senators spewed forth this crap in rec.autos.driving:

> This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago

When America was a *real* country

> this would have been

The accident that it is.

> 10 years ago,

When America started going to the shithouse...

> manslaughter.

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Loco Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend admits to being a red light runner:

"The cameras don't  catch everyone.  I have never been nailed for this."

Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend, 5/9/06
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/ee4wq
Message ID: 9nb162p1idam39jhmv5s2g0b7booh67stc@4ax.com

floresrikitic@hotmail.com - 15 Jan 2007 13:41 GMT
> This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago this would have
> been an accident. 10 years ago, manslaughter.
>
> http://www.dailycomet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070110/APN/701103132

Here's another one for your collection:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2007/01/15/0115wherenow.html

This slob was so drunk he drove 12 miles with his drunk buddy's
headless
body hanging out the car window, after being lopped off by a telephone
pole support wire.
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 15 Jan 2007 16:11 GMT
> > This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago this would have
> > been an accident. 10 years ago, manslaughter.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> body hanging out the car window, after being lopped off by a telephone
> pole support wire.

WOW - that's an amazing story and i don't know how i missed it. The
article says the victim's family asked for leniency!!!!  What a bunch
of idiots. What i don't understand is how a telephone wire beheaded
him??!!
floresrikitic@hotmail.com - 15 Jan 2007 17:48 GMT
> > > This seems to be more and more common.  30 years ago this would have
> > > been an accident. 10 years ago, manslaughter.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> of idiots. What i don't understand is how a telephone wire beheaded
> him??!!

Pole *support* wire; it's really more like a cable.  You've seen them.
If there's
a force acting on a pole to make it lean, the support cable pulls the
other
way (and is anchored in the ground) to make the pole stay up.  You'd be
surprised at how easily such a cable passing by at 50 mph could slice
through a human neck.
Ted Kennedy - President of DDDAMM (Drunk Driving Divers Against Mad Mothers) - 17 Jan 2007 01:33 GMT
>You'd be
>surprised at how easily such a cable passing by at 50 mph could slice
>through a human neck.

Sounds as if you've been experimenting. By any chance did you video
graph your experiments?

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gpstard (gpsman@driversmail.com) demonstrates his inability to comprehend the
simple differences of the definitions of the monosyllabic words "time" and "chance:"
(Message-ID: <1167151218.287827.24230@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>)
Why don't you argue that the faster one drives the less time spent driving and available to be involved in an accident?

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity:
the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.

: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's ability to operate a vehicle:
I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
: http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a61824?hl=en

Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy":
Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event.
Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6>
 
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